MCU Black Panther vs Raimi Green Goblin

Who wins?

THE POLL VOTE SHOULD BE FOR THE MAIN BATTLE, NOT THE BONUS!

Green goblin is stronger and perhaps faster, but I think T’challa still wins based on his skill and the protection provided by his suit

What about the bonus Round?

Also, why do you think Goblin is faster than Panther?

1. Panther wins.

2. Goblin curb stomps.

R1. BP should win. GG is not much stronger than him, arguably slower, less durable and a lot less skilled. The thing that made him a dangerous foe was his equipment, like his bombs, pumpkarangs and the glider, without it, he is as impressive. GG was owning Peter, because Parker was not a very competent and experienced fighter, at the time, plus he got his ass kicked once Peter got real serious. Plus, BP can outright tank almost everything GG can do. BP 10/10.

R2. The situation does change a bit. This time GG can actually kill BP, plus the Glider gives a great mobility advantage. Probably GG 7/10.

Still say T'challa even if this is his civil war suit

T'Challa.

How? In his Civil War suit he was challenged by Cap. Raimi Goblin scales to a far stronger Spider-Man who would curb stomp Cap.

Not in the CW suit.

Goblin both rounds.

CW suit can’t absorb KE like his newer suits could so a couple of pumpkin bombs drops him easily.

Second round is just a mismatch…

Why not? It's essentially the same suit. Main differences are that it stores the kinetic energy it absorbs for offensive attacks and is made of nanites so it can go on/off instantly. It's still dampening all that kinetic energy. At no point was he harmed in the CW suit, other than being slowed down by Widow Bites.

@kingofwakanda: It can't redirect KE energy the same way the other suit did. In addition to this, he was clearly matched by Cap - who is considerably weaker and less durable than Raimi Spider-Man.

He's at a huge strength and dura disadvantage and there's not much evidence to suggest that a few Pumpkin Bombs couldn't drop him.

@frozen: Yup, suit would prob be unaffected by em but the man inside prob squished.

If he couldn’t feel pain from inside the suit, he wouldn’t run from Giant man trying to step on him and other stuff, it’s just NLF otherwise.

@frozen: As far as the suit goes, clearly the upgraded suit is better, but to what degree is debatable, especially in terms of protection. For the purposes of round 1, it should be enough. T'Challa was tanking punches from Bucky's metal arm without it. With his own durability on top of that of the suit's, I don't see blunt force doing him in. Cap matched him in skill but I saw no evidence that he was hurting him or surpassing the durability of the suit.

T'Challa should be able to react to the bombs, unless Goblin can throw them faster than arrow speed. Gobby is very much outskilled here. He'd be lucky to land a blow and BP's suit should afford him enough protection if he does. Norman has no answer for vibranium claws and I see him getting shredded.

Bonus definitely goes to Goblin though.

@kingofwakanda: Tanking punches from Bucky's arm isn't going to be enough here. Raimi Spider-Man is much stronger than Bucky. I needn't explain why that Spider-Man would wreck Bucky. He has several 100+ ton feats, with one of those feats being supporting 100 tons with only his one arm.

Now let's see how strong Norman was. He was able to catch Spider-Man's punch with ease and knock back Spider-Man 25-30 feet into a lamppost, hard enough to knock it over. This is the same Spider-Man who held up a 100+ ton cable car with one arm later in the film.

The film novelization describes this as nearly taking Peter out:

“See what I did there?” he said almost conversationally, and then he drove a punch straight at Peter, and Peter had never, but never, been hit that hard in his life. Not even as a kid being smacked around by bullies. It was like being punched by a wrecking ball, and Peter crashed through an ice cream cart and into a lamppost.

The world was spinning around him, and Peter fought off a wave of nausea as he staggered to his feet. A heartbeat later, his spider sense screamed a warning and, operating purely on reflex, he backflipped high in the air. An instant later he saw why he’d felt compelled to do so: The bizarre glider the guy had been riding had come swooping in behind him and would have broken his spine if it had struck home.

He replicates a similar feat later on:

Spider-Man's webs also scale to holding the 100 ton + cable car and a 300+ train feat, and Goblin ripped them apart with moderate difficulty. Given that they had a metal sound when tearing its clear that the intent was they were supposed to be extremely strong. This shows immense grip strength. He can generate that strength by squeezing let alone pulling or pushing.

He could quite simply snap Panther's bones if he gets a hold of him. As for Panther ''not being hurt'' - I'm not entirely convinced by this argument. He was clearly troubled by Cap and knocked back by him. Against an opponent of similar stats and skill, he had to put some serious work in. He obviously can't just stand there and let himself get hit. Otherwise why did he work to avoid Cap's hits? I also think its a bit of a copout to claim he ''can't be hurt'' - what's the ceiling for this argument exactly? Does this mean that he could tank hits from DCEU Superman without being KO'd? Clearly there's a threshold whereby enough blunt force can hurt if not KO him. Even without blunt force, Goblin could pull his joints out of place or break bones.

As for Goblin not tagging him, I very much doubt that. Harry Goblin who should scale to Dafoe (took the same serum) fought Spidey at mach 1.9. See the calc here, post #54 -

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/what-happens-to-mcu-captain-america-if-he-is-hit-w-2231330/?page=2

@frozen: Let me make one thing clear. I never said Panther "can't be hurt", even going as far to concede the bonus to Goblin while in BP is in a better suit. You inferred more there than what I stated. I said I saw no evidence that Cap hurt him. Cap was giving him trouble, agreed, but he's his equal or better in skill and with comparable strength, presented a good obstacle. I didn't see Cap or BP sustain any real damage in that fight, due to shield and armor, respectively. Why did BP avoid Steve's strikes if he can just tank them? Why did Steve avoid Batroc's strikes? It's not like Batroc could KO him. It makes for a more interesting fight.

Goblin is much stronger, but I feel like the gap in skill is being understated. Peter is a high schooler with no fight experience, Norman is a business man. T'Challa has a stark advantage in skill and fight experience. Norman is not going to start off trying to squeeze Panther to death. He's going to throw a punch. If he connects and BP gets a taste of his power and he will move to end the fight quickly via Vibranium claws as he's shown to due in multiple fights against Bucky with morals off. I don't think Norman has enough juice to one shot.

@kingofwakanda:

Let me make one thing clear. I never said Panther "can't be hurt", even going as far to concede the bonus to Goblin while in BP is in a better suit. You inferred more there than what I stated. I said I saw no evidence that Cap hurt him. Cap was giving him trouble, agreed, but he's his equal or better in skill and with comparable strength, presented a good obstacle. I didn't see Cap or BP sustain any real damage in that fight, due to shield and armor, respectively. Why did BP avoid Steve's strikes if he can just tank them?

Okay, well if you're conceding to the idea that he can be hurt, then he is definitely going to hurt him. He's far stronger. As for whether Cap hurt him or not, he at least pressed him. Goblin may not have Cap's skill or shield but he's so far ahead of him in strength/striking that he'd present more of a challenge than Cap.

Why did Steve avoid Batroc's strikes? It's not like Batroc could KO him. It makes for a more interesting fight.

Batroc definitely had some stats going for him at least. He was able to tank Cap's knees to his mid-section and recover quite quickly. Something which other humans in marvel haven't done against Cap. That was also a testament to Batroc's skill. Panther can't just stand there and let Cap hit him - even with the plot powers of his suit, he still has to engage otherwise he can risk losing. Clint was even able to get him into a chokehold position... which brings me to my overall point, Goblin doesn't have to use blunt force to win. Though that will help, he could simply snap his bones or choke him.

Goblin is much stronger, but I feel like the gap in skill is being understated. Peter is a high schooler with no fight experience, Norman is a business man. T'Challa has a stark advantage in skill and fight experience. Norman is not going to start off trying to squeeze Panther to death. He's going to throw a punch. If he connects and BP gets a taste of his power and he will move to end the fight quickly via Vibranium claws as he's shown to due in multiple fights against Bucky with morals off.

Sure Panther is more skilled, but he's never out-skilled someone with this much of a stat advantage over him before. He'll punch Panther and do serious damage, and in CQC its doesn't require much skill to simply grab his arms and dislocate them - especially since he enjoys a significant strength advantage. With regard to Peter's fight experience, it was true that he was inexerpienced... but his inexperience was never depicted as that much of an issue against the major villains of the trilogy. He had great strength, striking and durability feats which is all that matters. Its not like Peter could hold back his durability when Norman punched him.

As for his claws v armour, he's been pierced by his own glider, but that glider blade was much longer and was coming in at an unknown speed. Panther's claws are much shorter. His armour is also very durable. Here are some statements from the novelization which assert this:

If Norman braces himself, he can tank Peter's strikes with minimal damage:

• ''Spider-Man shoved away from the building with his legs and twisted around so that he had his toes on the edge of the glider. There he slugged it out with the armored monster. She could hear the sounds of the metal ringing under the pounding of Spider-Man’s fists, but the creature didn’t seem the least bit perturbed, as if—now that he’d readied himself—he could take whatever punishment Spider-Man was dishing out. Then the creature swung an elbow around, catching Spider-Man in the jaw. The impact sent Spider-Man toppling off the glider, and he smashed into the balcony.''

Peter's webs are stated to be able to decapitate people. Norman's armour allowed this not to happen. Not only did it not happen, but he stayed conscious:

• ''With a deft maneuver, the creature swung his glider around so that he was facing Spider-Man. There was a humming sound coming from the vehicle, the noise of a weapon powering up. The front section began to glow. Instantly Spider-Man shot out a web strand. It splattered over the monster’s face with such force that,had he not been armored, it likely would have taken his head off. As the creature pitched back, clawing at his face, his change in posture sent the glider’s aim off just as the weapon discharged. It appeared to be some sort of laser beam, although she couldn’t be sure. But it was a pencil-thin beam of red light, and when it struck the wall next to Spider-Man, the wall blew apart. If it wasn’t a laser, it was still a damned nasty piece of work.''

I don't think Norman has enough juice to one shot.

Norman very nearly one-shotted Spider-Man in the passage I posted from the novelization:

“See what I did there?” he said almost conversationally, and then he drove a punch straight at Peter, and Peter had never, but never, been hit that hard in his life. Not even as a kid being smacked around by bullies. It was like being punched by a wrecking ball, and Peter crashed through an ice cream cart and into a lamppost.''

''The world was spinning around him, and Peter fought off a wave of nausea as he staggered to his feet. A heartbeat later, his spider sense screamed a warning and, operating purely on reflex, he backflipped high in the air. An instant later he saw why he’d felt compelled to do so: The bizarre glider the guy had been riding had come swooping in behind him and would have broken his spine if it had struck home.''

Panther barely wins

With his CW suit he is losing round 1. Gets stomped round 2.

Can you be convinced otherwise or no?

@frozen: Don't have time to go point by point but definitely wanted to address this and a few other things:

Sure Panther is more skilled, but he's never out-skilled someone with this much of a stat advantage over him before.

That is not really a fair point to Panther as he hasn't been presented with someone with a huge stat advantage to fight, outside of a gauntleted Thanos. Steve routinely fights above his weight class and Panther scales to him skill and stat-wise. We can't outright attribute those same feats to T'Challa, but it's not a leap in logic to think he'd fair similarly well against similar opponents, given their closeness in stats and skill.

I could conversely say Goblin has never fought someone while at this much of a skill disadvantage who can make them pay with piercing claw strikes with every misstep. His claws are shorter than the glider blade, but certainly long enough to cause damage as we've seen them rip car roofs, car doors, mounted guns, Clint's bow and scratch Cap's shield.

As far as Goblin gripping someone up and cracking their bones, he's never done this in a fight. We don't even know if he has the fighting acumen to attempt something like this. I could say he's just as likely to headbutt someone or put them in an ankle lock as he is to attempt to crush them since we haven't seen him do any of the above.

I also think Goblin's striking power is a bit overstated. It's definitely better than your typical SS but you would think every punch he throws sends people a hundred feet away or is an insta KO based on how you describe it. He certainly doesn't do that to the first cop and fails to one shot the 2nd cop.

And Peter is dealing with his blows far better in their final fight than the time he nearly one shots him in their first encounter. I don't think he consistently hits to that level. T'Challa got sideswiped by a vibranium mag lev train and dispatched with Killmonger moments later. He should be able to stay in the fight even if he takes a few hits.

I'm not saying Goblin can't or won't hurt T'Challa given enough time and opportunity. What I am saying is that he won't be able to do it before he gets shredded to pieces.

No he doesn't... completely untrue

He couldn't destroy Cap. How is he going to destroy a much superior opponent?

He doesn't need a glider. He's significantly stronger and will snap his bones.

@kingofwakanda: Why are you talking about consistently his punches throw people away when MCU high tiers don’t even punch with shockwaves or send people flying w/ punches LOL.

Nope but he can break the man inside.

@kingofwakanda:

That is not really a fair point to Panther as he hasn't been presented with someone with a huge stat advantage to fight, outside of a gauntleted Thanos. Steve routinely fights above his weight class and Panther scales to him skill and stat-wise. We can't outright attribute those same feats to T'Challa, but it's not a leap in logic to think he'd fair similarly well against similar opponents, given their closeness in stats and skill.

Steve usually abuses his stats. The only time I can think of where he fought a superior opponent and used skill was against an inexperienced Spider-Man. The movie actually went out of its way to show that Spider-Man's inexperience was a factor. Its also debatable whether that version of Peter was even superior to Cap in stats. While he did catch Bucky's arm with minimal effort, he was kicked back against his own momentum by Cap - to the point where the metal he's knocked into is dented. So that suggests Steve was close to Spider-Man in stats. Simply put, the issue here is that we don't have many showings of him fighting someone with massively superior stats and succeeding with skill.

I could conversely say Goblin has never fought someone while at this much of a skill disadvantage who can make them pay with piercing claw strikes with every misstep. His claws are shorter than the glider blade, but certainly long enough to cause damage as we've seen them rip car roofs, car doors, mounted guns, Clint's bow and scratch Cap's shield.

The problem with BP's skill argument is that its not actually shown it can bypass a huge stat disadvantage. If you had examples of this, then I'd see your point, but we haven't seen it. Usually when two characters have a stat gap, the superior one will win unless the inferior one has shown that he can bypass that physical disadvantage. Goblin might get scratched up a bit but he certainly has the speed to avoid some strikes in CQC, especially since a slower Bucky was able to. Also as I said, his armour is highly durable (as I showed in the novel extracts). I don't think its getting pierced as easily as you think.

As far as Goblin gripping someone up and cracking their bones, he's never done this in a fight. We don't even know if he has the fighting acumen to attempt something like this. I could say he's just as likely to headbutt someone or put them in an ankle lock as he is to attempt to crush them since we haven't seen him do any of the above.

It doesn't take that much fighting acumen to do that to someone who's massively weaker than you. If they had parity in stats then I'd see your point, but he's far stronger and also extremely durable. He has comparable speed and if they're in CQC, all he has to do is grab a hold of him. Lets also assume that BP doesn't get KO'd by the first punch, he's going to certainly be rattled and once that happens, it will be easier to grab a hold of him. Also, we saw Goblin catch Spider-Man's punch... against a weaker opponent all he would have to do is squeeze his hand.

I also think Goblin's striking power is a bit overstated. It's definitely better than your typical SS but you would think every punch he throws sends people a hundred feet away or is an insta KO based on how you describe it. He certainly doesn't do that to the first cop and fails to one shot the 2nd cop.

To be honest I don't put much stock into this. These are just some lame extras. The focus of this scene is Spider-Man, and the intent is that he can knock Spider-Man back. The film shows this not once but on three separate occasions - Spider-Man is knocked far back. The novelization asserts that he nearly one-shotted Spider-Man. The intent is that he's clearly able to contend with Spidey and ragdoll him at points.

He doesn't need to ''destroy'' his suit. He can pull his dislocate his joints or just snap his bones without doing that. You're also forgetting that this is the CW suit, it doesn't re-direct KE energy.

A) Who is talking about high tiers or shockwaves? That is irrelevant to this conversation B) Super soldier tier punches and kicks routinely send people flying. What movies have you been watching?

@kingofwakanda: I was due to you bringing up Goblin not sending ppl flying each time he punched em as an anti feat? MCU inconsistencies don’t put Raimiverse at fault and they don’t have same logic, so they don’t need to go flying each punch.

Theoretically, high tiers should send each other flying consistently, right?

His Civil War suit isn't good enough to handle Norman's extremely dangerous stats. Keep in mind that this doesn't have any of the kinetic tech or particularly good durability. Goblin KO's him if Cap or Hawkeye can equalise.

That boy Norman was a beast, my money’s on him.

Panther has no business fighting people in Raimi Spidey's tier lol.

LMAO

Green goblin stomps both rounds

@frozen:

Steve also fought Ultron and Corvus and held his own for a bit and Iron Man had to use his fight computer to cope. Let's not discount his showing against Spiderman either because they are certainly not close in stats. Look no further than Peter keeping the boat together to show their strength disparity and that is just one example of many. Also you can't argue inexperience for MCU Spiderman and say it won't be a factor for Goblin.

The stats are not massively far apart as you say that Norman can just pick him up and squish him like he's a child who won't fight back. A depowered T'Challa faced this same situation against M'Baku who is definitely peak human by feats. M'Baku had him in a bear hug in an attempt to crush him and T'Challa broke the hold easily. I think we can dispel that as a path to victory for Norman.

@kingofwakanda:

Steve also fought Ultron and Corvus and held his own for a bit and Iron Man had to use his fight computer to cope. Let's not discount his showing against Spiderman either because they are certainly not close in stats. Look no further than Peter keeping the boat together to show their strength disparity and that is just one example of many.

Steve ambushed Corvus and his main objective was to buy time for Vision. As for Vision, that's probably his highest end feat and even then he wasn't achieving much in way of damage. With regard to stats, if they weren't close in stats, then how did Cap knock Peter back against his own momentum? There's not much skill in that, its just strength/striking. Peter performing that feat in Homecoming just suggests he got stronger, which isn't out of the ordinary for characters.

Also you can't argue inexperience for MCU Spiderman and say it won't be a factor for Goblin.

I'm only bringing up inexperience because Civil War actively went out of its way to show how it was a hindrance for him.

The stats are not massively far apart as you say that Norman can just pick him up and squish him like he's a child who won't fight back. A depowered T'Challa faced this same situation against M'Baku who is definitely peak human by feats. M'Baku had him in a bear hug in an attempt to crush him and T'Challa broke the hold easily. I think we can dispel that as a path to victory for Norman.

Well, the strength gap is actually sizeable. Steve in Civil War struggled with the helicopter feat, and the Russos said that was the upper limits of his strength at the time. So if you take that at face value, its a 3 ton feat. Civil War Panther was also placed in a chokehold by Clint, which isn't a great showing for him in all honesty. And scaling from a depowered T'Challa doesn't really mean anything for a powered one. I don't see how that's relevant at all. By feats Norman is considerably stronger in grip strength and also pulling/pushing/striking.

@frozen:

With regard to stats, if they weren't close in stats, then how did Cap knock Peter back against his own momentum? There's not much skill in that, its just strength/striking. Peter performing that feat in Homecoming just suggests he got stronger, which isn't out of the ordinary for characters.

@kingofwakanda:

Because Peter is probably 140lbs soaking wet.

Except Cap wasn't just kicking Peter's bodyweight. Peter was swinging in to kick - he was coming in with momentum as he's using his strength to propel himself at Cap.

And Peter going from near Cap levels of strength to holding two halves of a large ship together is a highly out of the ordinary jump in strength, especially considering they events of Civil War and Homecoming are supposed to be taking place about a month apart.

Eh I'd disagree. Peter in the first Raimi film was getting hurt by Bonesaw. By the end of the film, he was holding up a 100 ton cable car. Peter's powers can be affected by his mental belief. So if Pete is getting rivalled by stats by Cap and is shown as far strongerin a later film, that's evidence he grew.

Inexperience is inexperience. Just because Norman's inexperience isn't mentioned doesn't make him any less so. Compare that to T'Challa who comes from a warrior nation, has been training his whole life to take on the mantle of Black Panther and has been donning the suit for years.

Inexperience is only bad if the film frames it that way. In Norman's case, this never happened. In fact, against Spider-Man he was able to an over the top wuxia style kick. We don't really know anything about his skill background but this suggests he isn't completely unskilled.

Clint is irrelevant here. Panther easily broke the hold with his claws (and he gets into the hold off screen, so take that with a grain of salt) Against M'Baku he did it with skill. That has nothing to do with scaling - depowered to powered. It's retained regardless of his level of strength. Either way, if his arms are free his claws will end up in Norman's eyes or throat.

So because depowered T'Challa was able to break out of a peak human's hold, it means he could break out of Norman's? This makes no sense. Norman is far stronger than T'Challa. T'Challa breaking the hold of a human has no relevance because you can't really prove that the strength disparity between depowered T'Challa and M'Baku is similar to powered BP and Goblin.

Moreover, Clint was a human and got him in that position. You could say that's due to skill but it's not a great look.

All Goblin has to do is dislocate arm or break his fingers in catching his punch. And with durable armour of his own, its highly probable.

@frozen: Trying to follow... So because Cap was able to kick Peter against his momentum they're comparable in strength. Then next month Peter's strength has grown exponentially because a totally different iteration of the character from a different universe got stronger under different circumstances.

You can't just handwave Norman's lack of experience. Even if he isn't completely unskilled, there's a world of difference between their skill level and fight experience. Someone who's been in two fights will be at a disadvantage against someone who's been training and fighting for decades. There's really no other way to slice it.

Breaking out of a stronger opponent's hold isn't a strength feat, it's a skill feat. He doesn't brute force his way out. His opponent leaves himself open, he strikes him twice and then brings his head down to break the hold. He goes from a disadvantaged position to a neutral one. Panther getting into Clint's hold isn't an anti-feat for Panther, it's a feat for Clint and a nebulous one at best since we don't even see how it happens. It's not like Norman has skill feats to put him near Clint's anyway. And this is all assuming Norman even gets Panther into a hold, which I find dubious due to BP's superior skill and agility.

@kingofwakanda:

Trying to follow... So because Cap was able to kick Peter against his momentum they're comparable in strength.

Spidey wasn't just coming in with his bodyweight, he was coming in with his strength. So for Cap to knock him back against his own momentum shows comparable strength. It's not Cap knocking away a 140lb kid, its Cap knocking away a 140lb kid who is using his super strength.

There's also another instance of Cap showing comparable strength, namely when he overpowers his pull:

Then next month Peter's strength has grown exponentially because a totally different iteration of the character from a different universe got stronger under different circumstances.

Going by feats yes. He went from being rivalled by a Cap who in the same film struggled with a 3 ton helicopter feat to performing strength feats far beyond that level. I was merely using another version of Spider-Man to show it's not out of the ordinary, especially given that it's a young early version of Spider-Man.

You can't just handwave Norman's lack of experience. Even if he isn't completely unskilled, there's a world of difference between their skill level and fight experience. Someone who's been in two fights will be at a disadvantage against someone who's been training and fighting for decades. There's really no other way to slice it.

Actually, experience just doesn't mean anything if the film doesn't go out of it's way to show it as a hindrance. Raimi Doc Ock had no experience before dominating a Spider-Man who had 2 years experience. Same with Venom against a Spider-Man who had 3 years experience. Civil War went out of its way to show how naive and inexperienced Peter was. The Raimi films never treated him as inexperienced once he had his Spider-Man costume. Moreover, Panther doesn't have a track record of outskilling opponents way outside of his weight class.

Breaking out of a stronger opponent's hold isn't a strength feat, it's a skill feat. He doesn't brute force his way out. His opponent leaves himself open, he strikes him twice and then brings his head down to break the hold.

Again, this is all meaningless. We have no idea what the strength difference is between depowered T'Challa and M'Baku. The strength differences between peak humans is still going to be far less than that of the disparity between powered T'Challa and Norman.

Panther getting into Clint's hold isn't an anti-feat for Panther, it's a feat for Clint and a nebulous one at best since we don't even see how it happens. It's not like Norman has skill feats to put him near Clint's anyway. And this is all assuming Norman even gets Panther into a hold, which I find dubious due to BP's superior skill and agility.

I'm not saying Norman is as skilled as Clint, I'm just saying it would be more likely for someone like Norman to get Panther into that position than Clint - given his far superior stats. Panther's agility is meaningless here given that Norman had no trouble tagging Spider-Man, who is far more agile than Panther. He doesn't have to get him into a rear naked choke either, all he has to do is grab his arm and pull it to dislocate it, or just get his arm around his neck. Panther will be rattled by a punch that nearly one-shot Raimi Spidey.

@frozen: "Raimi Goblin scales to a far stronger Spider-Man"

No he doesn't, Spider-man has better strength feats, Norman has very little direct scaling, and Peter over powered him in the third act, now he did seem to get an adrenaline boost but he was also beaten to a pulp when he did that.

So his strength is similar to Spider-man's but not as strong and Peter might have gotten stronger in sequel where he gets better feats. Striking also doesn't completely translate to lifting.

Norman is less durable then Peter also.

Now as far as this matchup is concerned, I'd think T'chala has tla better chance of winning with kinnetic energy suit.

With this match the thing is that T'chala has his claws so he's capable of hurting him, I'd say more durable (might be PIS, but Thanos hit him with the Thanos Copter in End Game) and skill can give one the ability to fight people greatly exceeding themselves in strength and considering T'chala's kick based style of keeping distance which is pretty good for fighting stronger enemies I don't think this is a mismatch.

When Peter made it through Norman's tricks Norman did not last to long against a not very experienced Spider-man. And Captain America was getting the upperhand against another inexperienced Spider-man (while not as powerful as inexperienced Raimi Spider-man).