MCU: Batroc vs M'Baku

pure h2h in an empty field, morals off

Batroc in a decent fight.

this is an interesting fight ,Brute force vs agility .if batroc plays smart he could beat mbaku by tiring him and later finsih the work with his flying kicks.but if mbaku tags him is over

Batroc definitely. He was able to temporarily hold his own against Cap, if barely. Also M'Baku fights like a brute, which is perfect for an agile adversary like Batroc

M'Baku

I still feel as if the Batroc fight was meant to showcase skill rather than physicals.

I'll back M'Baku.

M’baku

People bring up the batroc vs cap fight as a physical showing for batroc?

Yes. Him knocking Cap back and him tanking Cap's hits. People use this for his physicals.

I don't think Cap was necessarily holding his punches back totally. But I also don't think he was giving in his all. He wanted it to be a fair fight(well at least as much as it could be). That's why he dropped the shield IMO.

@amcu: I just chalk that up to cap not killing people in character. All though I agree the point was to show off batrocs skill not physicals.

@jashro44: That's fair.

@jashro44: While I understand your point, I just want to point out Cap and the Avengers are clearly killing people.

MBaku picked up a guy and ragdolled him with one hand. He stomps Batroc. Also he is just as skilled as Batroc. And he’s got more feats due to more screen time.

I don't think anyone's stomping. M'Baku will have to exert himself to put Batroc down. Batroc will have trouble taking down M'Baku.

During the war cap killed people. Cap is a soldier. Soldiers aren't suppose to kill unless its necessary.

M'Baku's showings are mostly with his battle staff. He has great strength but to me Batroc isn't too far behind. If it comes to pure H2H, I might give this to Batroc.

@jashro44: Well yeah I totally get your point. It’s just that the way you had phrased “Cap not killing people in character”. Also he and the Avengers have killed in other movies. They kill on a as needed basis. So I think Cap simply was humoring Batroc to a strong degree and when he was bored he simply bulldozed him.

I am thinking M'Baku but I don't know if that's really based on anything.

Batroc

For those saying M'Baku wins because of his strength, a stronger opponent in Cap couldn't even down him. Steve had to literally bullrush him through a steel door and land a solid right hook to the face to end it. And Batroc got right back up from that in under a minute.

When have the avengers killed people? I don't think cap was "humoring batroc" the whole time. If anything he humored batroc when he stomped him by throwing away the shield and beating batroc on his terms.

@jashro44: During Age of Ultron. Hawkeye was blowing people up. Banner asked Thor if he hurt anyone and Thor brags about how many Hydra guys Hulk has killed and once he realized Banner’s horror he tries to walk it back. Ironman clearly kills those terrorists in Ironman 1. He kills the main villains in Ironman 1, 2, and 3.

“Natasha: Thor, report on the Hulk?

Thor: *passionately* The gates of Hel are filled with the screams of his victims.

*Bruce looks more depressed*

Thor: But not the screams of the dead, of course. No, no…wounded screams, mainly whimpering, a great deal of complaining and tales of sprained deltoids and, uh…and gout.”

Also Ironman refers to BW and Barton as Assassins in Avengers 1.

@mickey-mouse: I don't remember a lot of those examples admittedly but none of those really involve cap. I remember him killing during ww2 but that was a war. He also killed chitarui if you count them as people. But he's never killed a human outside of war time.

@jashro44:

But he's never killed a human outside of war time.

@amcu: LOL fair enough.

@amcu: @jashro44: Yeah that’s the one I was about to bring up. I think all of the Avengers have skill count videos on YouTube.

@mickey-mouse: @jashro44:Yeah. It depends on how you interpret it but I've always thought that Cap kills the people he fights. Besides say like the elevator fight(where Cap didn't know that they where Hydra or that they where evil)you don't see the people move once he's done with them. I just think they don't show it clearly because they don't want to make an extreme point of it. But I do think Cap tends to kill most people he fights.

We see him take this guys gas mask off in Civil War.

And I think it's implied that that gas kills people.

I definitely think that Cap does kill people. But I also think he took exception with Batroc. I could be wrong but I almost feel like I read an article a while ago where the Russo's stated that that fight was mainly to show skill. But I will admit that this might just be in my head because it was a long time ago and I've never found an actual article where they say that recently(though I'm also kinda too lazy to read all of their interviews).

Anyhow I think he might have thought that they could get information from Batroc. Such as who had hired him to hijack the ship. That would explain why he didn't want to kill him. But it's not 100% at all. It seemed like he was holding back to me though. Him putting his shield on his back to make it a fairer fight is what really makes me think he wasn't going all out.

@amcu: There's also the opening scene in WS where Cap dropkicks a HYDRA soldier which dent the metal of the boat and knocked him overboard into freezing water.

The odds of that soldier dying are high.

@angeljax: That wasn't a HYDRA soldier, that was one of Batroc's mercenaries

Agreed. I also thought he killed that guy he put in the choke hold at the beginning too.

Good fight, I'm leaning towards Batroc if it is hand to hand though.

@the_magister: Same difference

@jashro44:

Cap kicked a guy so hard his spine snapped before going over a railimg. This was right before the Batroc fight.

I have a hard time buying the idea that Cap held back because he doesn't kill.

M'Baku

M'Baku.

Based on the method T'challa used to incapacitate M'Baku, Batroc could replicate it but would likely get his rib cage broken trying to do so.

Realistically the guys spine would snap but we never heard anything IIRC. Sometimes people can take devastating hits. All though regardless that scene from the avengers is pretty damning either way so I guess cap does kill.

M'Baku wins.

Batroc.

Batroc

M'Baku

M'Baku.

Batroc. M'Baku is stronger, and Batroc's showing against Steve is far from stellar, but it sure is much better than M'Baku losing to a depowered, unimpressive T'Challa. I just don't see what M'Baku brings to the table at all.

M'Baku wrecks him

Yeah...what exactly has M'Baku accomplished skill-wise besides losing to a depowered T'Challa (who has never been impressive without his equipment), and I guess, fighting the Outriders in Infinity War (an unquantifiable feat that the average Wakandan grunt accomplished as well) to justify him winning this? M'Baku didn't even show much skill during his fight with T'Challa, it was all brute force.

You could argue that M'Baku has an advantage by being stronger based on his size, but considering Batroc took 1) multiple knees to the gut 2) a spinning drop kick 3) a bullrush through a door and 4) a direct hit to the face all from Steve "Super-Soldier" Rogers.....and was still able to bounce back and escape a minute later? Batroc's durability is being underrated if you think M'Baku's strength and size are enough to give him the win here.

Batroc takes this, as he put up an admirable showing against an opponent who far physically outstrips him or any normal human, while M'Baku has shown that he can be dominated by superior skill. And anyway, considering Batroc is played by GSP, he can always take M'Baku down with a grappling takedown like what T'Challa did...as anyone who watches UFC knows you can't mess with GSP when it comes to ground game ;)