MCU Batroc Runs the S.H.I.E.L.D. Gauntlet

Batroc decides to test his fighting abilities by going up against some of S.H.I.E.L.D's most elite fighters. He is determined to win and is going all out.

Rules:

• MCU Versions
• Everyone in the gauntlet is in-character
• Pure h2h
• Win by KO/Incapacitation
• Start 10ft apart
• Everyone is in their standard battle clothing
• Phil does not have his robotic arm
• Batroc gets rested and healed bewteen each round

Combatant 1:

Combatant 2:

Combatant 3:

Combatant 4:

Combatant 5:

Combatant 6:

Combatant 7:

Stops at 4 or 5.

Ward takes a majority

Stops at 4 or 5. Widow is too high.

Combatant 1 - Batroc beats Hunter very convincingly. Hunter is an elite ex-SAS operative, but he is not on Batroc's level.

Combatant 2 - Batroc is too quick and physically gifted for Coulson to keep up. Batroc takes it solidly, although I think Coulson is good enough to at-least hold his own for a bit.

Combatant 3 - Batroc beats Kara down, although she'll give him a tough time before being defeated. She was able to at-least challenge May and Bobbi for some time.

Combatant 4 - Daisy beats Batroc pretty solidly. She is physically superior and more skilled.

Combatant 5 - Ward demolishes Batroc pretty severely. He's much stronger, more skilled, and more durable.

Combatant 6 - Bobbi stomps Batroc. She is skilled enough to briefly hold her own against a Kree warrior who matched Lady Sif. She took on Ward and Agent 33 after having been tortured (though there was further context to this which made it more fair than you'd think).

Combatant 7 - Black Widow beats him decisively. Logic wise she should be a peer to Ward and Bobbi, but she is somewhat lacking in feats against credible opponents. But her level of training and reputation vastly outstrip Batroc's track record...she is too good for him on paper.

@americanspeeddemon: Where would you place her?

@angeljax: She is essentially equal with Ward imo though Ward has more 1 on 1 fights against skilled opponents. She could be 5 or 6. Bobbi is much better than Widow though.

@americanspeeddemon: Don't get me wrong, in pure h2h, I think Bobbi, possibly Ward and maybe even Daisy outclass Widow by a fair margin. But I considered these character's standings in-universe and Natasha is consistently built up as one of, if not the MCU's best non-enhanced CQC fighter. She just lacks feats against established characters.

@angeljax: The AoS agents have better feats and around equal statements. May has more black belts than Widow, was offered a position on the Avengers Initiative before Widow, and she defeated relatively easily a person who almost killed Hawkeye. Ward has equal combat rankings from shield and has consistently been compared to Widow. Bobbi seemingly is a bit better than either.

When and how was she built up as one of the best if not the best CQC fighter? I constantly see people saying that.

And honestly the top Agents also have equal if not better praises stated in the show throughout all four seasons and in the promos.

Widow should be better than Ward, May or Bobbi Morse now. I agree May was probably better in combat skills initially when the Avengers initiative was a new concept. She reportedly has more black belts than Widow and has multiple times saved the day in AoS, gone up with superhuman opponents and defeated guys like Grant Ward. So she was more or less better or comparable to Widow. However its noteworthy that Widow had better espionage skills than May. She was a better spy. Ward is the only one who could match widow in espionage skills. And he also had top marks in combat performance. This was all mentioned in AoS. Bobbi is a wild card. While nothing about her abilities were stated in detail, she was just a very skilled agent, she has feats against superhuman Asgardian/Kree level opponents. She somehow managed to hold her own. She also took on Ward and agent 33 after being tortured. Regarding May it's also mentioned that she defeated an assassin who had come close to killing Hawkeye. So it's very difficult to judge really. But the fact that I said, Widow is better than them now is that she's been an avenger for long now. She's received combat training from Captain America most probably. Cap would not just teach deadly moves, he'd teach strategy. Widow has also consistently fought tougher opponents now as she's an avenger. She's gone against Bucky, Chitauri, Ultron Bots, international mercenaries etc. So she's become better. So has Hawkeye. During the Avengers, widow beat Hawkeye fair and square. Now Barton can give her an extended fight and not lose that easily. He's revived training from Cap too. And he's got experience on his side now.

@deltahuman: The AoS agents also have their fair share of showings against superhuman opponents. I don't think Widow's experiences with the Avengers is enough to give her an actual edge over any of them. They're all supremely skilled. And there's no canon evidence or implication to suggest that Widow received any training from Cap. And I'm not sure why she would feel the need to, she is a great fighter on her own.

All of the top SHIELD agents have so much hype surrounding them that sometimes it's hard to keep track of who'd win in-universe. Widow was obviously highly regarded by Fury, as she reported directly to him. It's clear that the MCU writers also intend for the AoS agents to be on that level. When Coulson went to meet Ward, he brought Deathlok along...because as per Coulson's words to Ward, "We both know you're that good." To put that in perspective, Deathlok is a cybernetically enhanced super-soldier who can fire missiles out of his arm.

Widow is great, but she really isn't written to be noticeably superior to the AoS agents on paper. They all have their own skillsets which they bring to the table.

@the_magister: Of course. I've already acknowledged the skills of the AoS agents in my post. They would give the Avengers a run for their money skillwise. But maybe you don't remember or haven't gone through the MCU tie in comics. There's one titled attack of Ultimo or something. I've gone through it. There they clearly show Cap training black widow in combat. They also have a sparring session where Cap shows he's got superhuman reflexes and stuff. So unless those tie ins are not canon, it's evident that Cap trains the Avengers in combat. There's also a scene in Civil War. Opening action sequence in Lagos, Cap is shown mentoring and asking questions to Scarlett Witch about real time combat assessment of the things going on in the Area. It's evident, Cap not only trains the Avengers in combat, he also teaches them strategy.

I don't think that's an advantage. Most of the opponents she fights are fodder. The AoS characters also take on similar missions as the Avengers like fighting Primitives, LMD's, HYDRA, mercenaries, Inhumans etc.

• Fought Chituari with gear
• Fought Ultron bots with gear
• Lost to Bucky in a matter of seconds both times they fought despite having some sort of advantage during the fight (element of surprise, double teaming Bucky with Sharron, etc.)
• International mercenaries are also opponents the AoS characters go up against.

Keep in mind this gauntlet is pure H2H so your first 3 points go out the window considering Widow relied on gear when facing them.

It also falls short considering that one could claim that the top SHIELD agents performed similar feats in a CQC setting.

May:

Bobbi:

Ward:

Daisy:

So how exactly is Widow better than any of them considering they went through similar opponents she went through but managed to fare better overall?

Hawkeye had already beaten Widow the very first time they met and spared her life. So it doubt it's really that they both improved drastically rather than they are around the same level with one being able to win under certain cirumstances.

And what evidence do you have of Cap training anyone of the Avengers how to fight? It's not like Widow and Hawkeye even need it since they already have good combat abilities and know how to fight.

Edit: I'll let it slide since it's in the tie-in comics.

@dstreet45: Again, I've already acknowledged that May, Ward, Bobbi etc are so talented they can give the unenhanced Avengers a run for their money. I know all their feats and who they fought.

But I'd still say being an avebger for so long should give Widow a slight edge. Not to easily defeat anyone of these guys but to come out on top eventually. She probably has access to world's best training, diet or any other physical conditioning as member of the Avengers. And I've already mentioned and proved that Cap, who's been acknowledged as a living legend by the MCU and one of their best fighters baring Stick, Matt etc, trains the Avengers in combat and strategy. That should give Widow an edge.

Also you're assuming that only Widow uses gear. The gents of AoS do too, whenever possible. Widow is very fast in combat. Remember how efficiently she took on the mercenaries in Lagos. But I do recognize that the AoS agents, specially May and Bobbi have better showing against Superhuman opponents like say Kree or Berserker staff enhanced human beings etc. Widow has consistently lost to Bucky. But it's also true that Bucky is a legendary assassin with superhuman stats in the MCU. being able to fight him without enhancements is a feat in itself.

Regarding Daisy, she's got inhuman abilities that aided her in the fight with Kree. And I don't think she's as skilled as May Bobbi or Widow. Ward is overall an exceptional agent. He's an allrounder having top marks in everything. Espionage, combat etc. But May and Bobbi have both beaten Ward fair and square in combat. Regarding the Hawkeye part, I wouldn't say Hawkeye came close to killing widow when he was given the order to take her out. Rather Hawkeye recognized widow's potential and helped her defect to shield. There's nowhere mentioned that Widow lost. Rather Widow has easily beaten him in the Avengers and Hawkeye is a legendary shield agent.

Anywho, I do recognize the fact that the AoS agents are extremely skilled and have the skills and potential to beat widow. May is already a legendary agent. But the mere fact that Widow is an avenger and probably has more combat experience and superior training should give her a slight edge. The abilities of widow are taken at face value because she's an avenger and I will agree to that too and Shield agents are extremely good. But then again, Widow is an avenger

@deltahuman: I never said that they didn't fight with gear just that they performed similar feats as Widow in CQC.

And while I have nothing against the people who use this, I just can't stand the "This person is an Avenger" or "in-universe"argument that has been used for years. For all of the assumptions of their superior training and skill they don't really have anything to show for it, no feats or statements that show or imply that they are on a different level than their opponents. Even if Widow had superior training what has she done with said training that shows that she's better than whoever people match her up with? What has people (on camera or behind the scenes) say that imply that she's as good as the agents if not better?

I guess I'd rather have something more concrete to fall back on when ranking skill and CQC/H2H abilities.

@dstreet45: I agree, and tbh I'd be more accepting of that mindset if there were actual statements to back up the notion that she is explicitly better. I don't even need a slew of feats if someone can give me a statement made by a credible character to show that Widow is superior to the AoS agents.

@deltahuman: The Ultimo comic isn't canon

In universe I think he could make it to Ward/Bobbi.

By feats Daisy stops him.

His best feat is what? Getting stomped by Steve? I don't know AoS but I can tell you he's not clearing at all.

I'd put Coulson above Kara, he's at least her match skillwise going by their brief fight, plus would logically have something of a physical advantage.

As for Widow, she's always going to have the advantage of being in the big leagues with the Avengers, which conversely comes with the disadvantage of getting overshadowed by the other Avengers. Considering the movie producers don't really care about Agents of Shield, using statement comparisons from the show are kinda iffy, since the movie writers aren't taking the agents into consideration when they portray Widow. Logically, she should be at least as good as any of the elite agents, because it would make no sense for her not to be on their level. I don't think there's any particular reason to think she's not on their level, she just hasn't demonstrated as many feats.

As for Batroc, in theory could stop at Ward or Bobbi, but by feats probably stops at Daisy. He's clearly tough, but hanging somewhat with Cap really isn't all that much to go on

@arcus1: To be fair some parts like Ward getting Shields highest available combat marks was written by Joss Whedon. Widow is on the other's level out of the 5 best Shield agents in the MCU Mockingbird, Black Widow, May, Ward and Daisy I put Widow at a tie for 3rd best which isn't bad. Plus even if the writers of the movies aren't focusing on Shield the writers of Shield definitely portray their agents as all around and in some places better than BW and the shows are still canon.

stops at 3.

The only statements we have indicate exactly otherwise.

@arcus1: Phil doesn't have much in the way of feats for me to put him above Kara h2h. I can't imagine Coulson hanging in as long as 33 did against May.

Yeah but May was just fresh from being tortured with live wires when they fought.

@dstreet45: Oh I know, still think he'd have trouble replicating what she did. Or beating Daisy the way Kara did.

@angeljax: I don't see why he couldn't.

I still honestly think that in-universe, Daisy vs Batroc would be a great fight.

Yeah I'm not saying those sorts of statements should be dismissed entirely or anything, just not held as absolute authority if other evidence contradicts it. That being said, I think AoS has generally done a pretty good job portraying it's top agents as being about Widow level, which would go along with statements

I mean he hung with 33 herself just fine. May had also been tortured to some degree and honestly was allowing the fight with 33 to go on longer than it necessarily needed to, probably cause beating 33 was understandably very satisfying

I could definitely see Coulson beating S2 Daisy

Natasha stops him.

@ithemanwithoutfeari: You think he soundly beats rounds 1-6?

I dont know where to rank Batroc, because he lacks feats, but I am pretty sure that nobody on this list, except for BW can give Cap a fight like Batroc.

@ithemanwithoutfeari: Bobbi might she has held her own against a Kree which are generally >= Cap in most stats (mostly through scaling) and Daisy staggered an even more powerful Kree and has a ton of impressive feats against enhanced opponents (hive).

I doubt widow could considering she was stomped by Winter Soldier twice. All the Agents Ward and above have better feats against superhuman opponents which was always the teams mission but rarely widow's she's a spy most notably for her espionage and assassinations and also a highly skilled combatant. They all have different attributes.

He stops at five.

Hunter - Batroc beats him quite easily. Put a gun in Lance's hand, and it might be different. But nope, Batroc 10/10.

Coulson - I love Phil, but he doesn't have the skill to contend here. He puts up a fight, but it isn't much of one and gets taken down. Batroc 10/10.

33 - Kara's tough, she fought May pretty well, but Bobbi fodderised her. So... Batroc wins, but not easily. Batroc 8/10.

Johnson - I think this could be pretty even, Daisy's a very acrobatic fighter, and she can easily keep up with him. Hell of a fight, but I'll give Batroc a slight edge. Batroc 6/10.

Ward - Ward wins pretty comfortably. He's a great fighter, and he takes this. Batroc's good, but he's not that good. Ward 8/10.

Morse - Did someone say Stommmmp?!?!! Haha. Bobbi wins without much trouble. You don't mess with the Bobster. Bobbi 9/10.

Widow - Despite a lack of feats, Widow's a very good fighter (though imo she's below both Ward and Bobbi.) Widow 7/10.

@zamorak Thoughts?

Does anyone has the Gif of Bobbi walking down the hallway with her battons?

@angeljax: He's going to have serious trouble starting with Daisy, and it just gets worse from there. Batroc has impressive agility, but that's the only advantage I would give him against Daisy, Ward, and Bobbi.

Daisy would take him out in a good fight, as would Ward. Bobbi wouldn't have that much of a problem with him at all. I actually feel like Nat is too high, she doesn't have much in the way of pure H2H, definitely nothing that puts her above Ward or Bobbi, or even Daisy now that she's gone blow for blow with Kree in H2H.

@zamorak: Good breakdown. And Yeah, might move Nat. Made this with mostly just "in-universe placements in mind but Daisy/Ward/May/Bobbi exceed her at this point. Both in statements and showings.

Alright, new answer. He stops at 3.

1: Hunter's decent, but he barely has combat feats, he gets beat down by Batroc. Batroc 10/10 - low dif

2: Phill is going to hold his own, but he can't put Batroc down. Batroc 7/10 - mid-high dif

3: Agent 33 somewhat challenged May, who would stomp Batroc even harder than Steve did. Agent 33 6/10 - mid-high dif

4: I just now saw Skye going toe to toe with Agent 33, she hits hard enough to put down Batroc. Skye/Daisy 7/10 - mid-high dif

5: Ward destroys him. I'm not even sure if Batroc could take a Centipede soldier 1 on 1. Ward 10/10 - stomp

6: Bobbi is extremely impressive at this point of the series, and from what I'm hearing her best feats come later on. Agent Morse 10/10 - stomp

7: Natasha got the better of Clint, twice, who held his own against Black Panther as long as Buck and alomst as long as Steve did. Widow 10/10 - stomp

Batroc only has 1 feat, which is not a high level feat the slightest. It's him cheap shotting Steve and then getting almost one shotted after he puts the shield away. He got outspeeded, he got outskilled and he got overpowered. Anyone who has tried to convince me how good the feat is, is using the same old agruments of how "he dodged and blocked some of Steve's strikes", which he didn't, "no one else here would survive 10 seconds against Cap", except they would and some could even take him for a majority, "Batroc is considered a world class martial artist and the actor who portrayed him is one", Batroc doesn't have a single statement regarding his threat level, and the actors are all knowledgable in martial arts and use stunt doubles for high level acts.

@anthp2000: Coulson and Agent 33 were pretty much evenly fighting during Agent 33s first appeareance right before her fight with May.

Nah, Coulson held his own but he was getting overwhelmed before May intervened. Agent 33 landed more hits and had him cornered IIRC.

@anthp2000: Not really no.

Coulson punched her in the face. Then when they traded blows Coulson and her both landed a hit before he flipped her to the ground. She got up and hit him again then tried to choke him at which point he dropped her to the ground with a punch and May showed up kicking her while she was down. I think she landed like one more hit, but he dropoed her twice to the ground.

Now that you speak of it, May did stomp her in a few seconds before the final fight, I guess being injured helped 33's performance. Or May held back more to enjoy the moment (since she occasionally seemed not that serious), I'm not sure.

One way or another, I don't think Coulson could replicate their fight. Honestly, them trading blows seemed more of a physical contest rather than a skill one, which makes consistent sense with their levels. Regarding Batroc, Phill always faught more physically than skillfully, in which case he'd be outmatched against Batroc rather quickly (and to be fair Batroc wasn't unskilled either). Agent 33 has both the physicals and the far superior skill to take him.

@indomitableregal Thoughts?

@angeljax said:

@thekinfing said:

Does anyone has the Gif of Bobbi walking down the hallway with her battons?

sexy..lol