Super strength is literally one of America's powers. I don't undestand why some people are still saying America's punches aren't enhanced. We saw her enhance her striking strength with her powers 3 times throughout the movie.
chavez. her punch parted clouds and the shockwave was even larger than hulk’s clash with hulkbuster. it was also shown in the film she can amp her stats. to ignore the feat and try to write it off as it just being an after effect of her powers shows extreme bias
not to say her at her best is stronger than thor, but that she’s particular strike was more impressive
This. Chavez has displayed nothing close to the level of the feat above. The cloud parting and shockwave are obviously effects from the portal opening. It's also important to note that Wanda is just slightly above human-level in durability without her TK shields. If America's punch was actually as strong as it was shown in that one instance. Then she would've decapitated Wanda with the first hit. Let alone the following assault. So it's clear that she doesn't have any striking power on that level, and the shockwave is merely the effect of her powers opening a portal, as indicated by the multiple big stars that appear and dissappear.
Super strength is literally one of America's powers. I don't undestand why some people are still saying America's punches aren't enhanced. We saw her enhance her striking strength with her powers 3 times throughout the movie.
See my previous reply for a thorough explanation on why the feat being done with pure stats makes little sense.
chavez. her punch parted clouds and the shockwave was even larger than hulk’s clash with hulkbuster. it was also shown in the film she can amp her stats. to ignore the feat and try to write it off as it just being an after effect of her powers shows extreme bias
not to say her at her best is stronger than thor, but that she’s particular strike was more impressive
With all due respect. Accusing people of bias doesn't support your case. You need to present decent evidence and make a decent argument to convince others that the feat is genuine. Cause even if we believe that America can amp her striking to this level. There's still the fact that Wanda doesn't have durability anywhere near this, without her TK shields. And we know the Darkhold doesn't amp your physical stats, as shown when Sinister Strange got impaled on regular metal and died. Which pokes a big hole in the idea that Chavez did that with pure strength alone. Cause if that were true, and it wasn't an after effect from her powers. Then Wanda would've been atomized or decapitated by this one punch. Let alone the following barrage of punches she received from Chavez. So it's clear that America's feat is only due to the effect from a portal being opened as indicated by the multiple stars that continue to move forward after the first portal is opened.
Wanda's durability is no longer on the level of a normal human. She had a durability boost in Multiverse of Madness. For example, she got directly hit by a canon at Kamar Taj and was just fine and she tanked an attack from Captain Carter and got immediately up after.
She also survived this
Hell, saying that Black Widow or Hawkeye have the durability of normal humans doesn't work to begin with.
So tanking the punches from America is another good durability feat for Wanda. Not an anti-feat for America.
The shockwave America created wasn't because of the portal that oppened. We already saw her open portals and they don't make shockwaves. She opens a portal right after the fight and there is no shockwave. America has enhanced strikes and we have seen it multiple times in this movie. They progresively got better as she gained better understanding of her powers.
Also, I'm not saying America hits harder than Thor.
This is whole 'wanda has slightly above human durability' is silly. Wanda literally has the ability to make herself as as strong as she needs to be and she's at the strongest she's ever been, the logical conclusion is that her durability would improve, not that America's attack was weak due to not knocking her out.
Really this question is asking based off the visuals, not using Wanda as some sort of anti parameter, would America's attack damage hulk as much as Thor's. Seeing as Hulk is the parameter for Thor's punch and visuals are the parameter for America's.
Chavez made a shockwave, she had dimensional powers. We have no idea if the shockwave was from her dimensional powers or from her strength and we also don't know how damaging the punch was as Scarlett Witch completely no-sold it.
Almost impossible to quantify the damage output as there are so many factors at play. Thor hits harder through clear feats. Now I'm going to try a Mexican pizza
Wanda's durability is no longer on the level of a normal human. She had a durability boost in Multiverse of Madness. For example, she got directly hit by a canon at Kamar Taj and was just fine.
Oh, really? Cause I just rewatched the scene again and again and saw that she used a TK shield to protect herself:
As we can both clearly see. The big red circle appears just a second before the cannon ball makes contact with her. And the Cannon ball is the yellow glow. On the right side of the screen. So, no. She did not tank a cannon ball. And ignoring this is blatantly ignoring evidence.
and she tanked an attack from Captain Carter and got immediately up after.
She also used TK shield to block the cheapshot from Carter. As indicated by the red glow after Carter slams her:
And it couldn't have been an attack from Wanda, since she was surprised by Carter. And this Wanda has been confirmed as heavily nerfed thanks to the variants body. And has displayed far, far worse TK in comparison to her Infinity War version:
Wanda can lift giant-wheels which should be equal to at least thousands of tons and throws them up with high speed which should be equal to millions of tons force
Her performance against the statue-level Maria was lackluster at best in comparison. And the fact that the nerfed Wanda got pushed back by Maria's blast. When said blast couldn't couldn't go through normal stones shows how weak she's in comparison to her previous versions.
But even if we say she tanked that hit from Carter. So what? MoM Carter doesn't scale anywhere near Natasha or Hawkeye in skill or stats. Let alone her What if? Version.
She also survived this
Ok? All we see is water land on her. And even Strange knows it wouldn't harm her. He even tells her to just hold her breath. It would've been fine if there was more water. But Strange, Chavez, and even Christine can out run the water. Showing me water landing on her proves nothing. And even if we count it. It's still as far as you can get from her tanking a cloud parting punch. A better feat is Hawkeye and other Avengers surviving Thanos' assault on the compound.
Hell, saying that Black Widow or Hawkeye have the durability of normal humans doesn't work to begin with.
But they are. Sure, they have better reaction and movement than regular humans. But their durability isn't anywhere far from that of a human. They're just peak human. And low-tiers in comparison to Cap & Bucky.
So tanking the punches from America is another good durability feat for Wanda. Not an anti-feat for America.
Yes it is. It's leagues upon leagues above everything else she previously tanked. And such a big jump requires an explanation. Without it, it's an obvious Outlier.
You need to show a gradual change between her previous durability level and her current one in a way that makes sense of such a big jump. Imagine if DCEU Superman survived a galaxy being busted. Would you make these same excuses and say "Well, they're not consistent with his previously established power-level. But it happened, so it must mean his power changed. Instead of it clearly being a big fat Outlier."
The Chavez feat is contradicted in multiple ways, as I already explained in my previous replies. It's either Chavez does have this above Hulk-level feat. Which makes Wanda tanking it a clear Outlier/PIS. Or Chavez cloud parting was due to the effect of her portal opening as indicated by the few stars that kept moving forward after the portal opened, which the goes into the cloud partying shcokwave. And because Wanda has consistently been portrayed slightly above human-level in durability. And vastly below the likes of Cap. As seen when he tanks a punch from Thanos and survives. While Wanda gets sent flying and knocked out with a casual handwave. Such a big jump can't just be accepted without a reason.
The shockwave America created wasn't because of the portal that oppened. We already saw her open portals and they don't make shockwaves. She opens a portal right after the fight and there is no shockwave. America has enhanced strikes and we have seen it multiple times in this movie. They progresively got better as she gained better understanding of her powers.
It's more likely to be the effects of the portal as indicated by the stars that kept moving forward, even after the portal opened. Than it being America doing that with pure stats. And even if you decide to ignore that. They still have other effects. Such as, a strong vacuum that can suck in the body of Defender Strange and Chavez. And the shockwave only happened once because Chavez hit Wanda hard with her fist, Cause in the previous instances. She opened portals without punching and on accident. Which is why we don't see a shockwave.
Wanda jumping from a glass cannon to above Hulk-level in durability is too absurd and is too BS to be considered consistent with her previous showings. And that includes the ones in the same movie. There's a reason the word consistency exists. Something can't just jump and perform at such a high level, when it's previously shown level isn't anywhere near it.
It's the same reason why even the likes of Supes, throughout different iterations, isn't allowed certain durability feats, cause they're seen as Outliers in comparison to his previous ones.
The feat being caused by Chavez's pure stats and Wanda having the durability to tank a punch that can part clouds only work if you shut your brain off and ignore the obvious.
Chavez's punch didn't cause the shockwave only the portals did that. Which is why NONE of her other strikes cause any shockwave.
And the proof (I know I’m gonna trigger a lot of people):
Here we see when the punch connects, there is no shockwave
If the punch were the cause of the shockwave, it wouldn’t have been so delayed
The next shot, still no shockwave as the portals line up, note how all the snow is completely still on the ground.
The shockwave only starts after there is some blue flash of light
This time, snow is blown away by the shockwave proving the shockwave was not a result of the punch or else the snow & fire in the temple would all have been blown away
@johnnypowers: I mean sure, from a visual standpoint it looks impressive but I think trying to scale Wanda to Hulk in durability is quite the tall order
If we're comparing the shockwaves to each other, then the shockwave in America's GIF is visually more impressive than the one in Thor's. But as far as I'm aware no scaling would get that punch at a higher level than taking it at face value, while you could probably scale Thor's punch above the visual damage we saw, as is usual with MCU high tiers. So it's probable that you could scale Thor's punch above Chavez's.
@w3b: I completely agree here. It wasn't her punch, but the portal energy. It would have been ridiculous to have Chavez be the strongest puncher in the MCU out of clear nowhere after having her run like a headless chicken the entire film.
This. Chavez has displayed nothing close to the level of the feat above. The cloud parting and shockwave are obviously effects from the portal opening. It's also important to note that Wanda is just slightly above human-level in durability without her TK shields. If America's punch was actually as strong as it was shown in that one instance. Then she would've decapitated Wanda with the first hit. Let alone the following assault. So it's clear that she doesn't have any striking power on that level, and the shockwave is merely the effect of her powers opening a portal, as indicated by the multiple big stars that appear and dissappear.
The power of the Thor punch is being underrated. He cracked the Grandmaster's Arena, where the Contest of Champions takes place. Hits from Gladiator Hulk could barely chip it, and he was decently angry at the time. Ruffalo said he was the angriest he had been yet, IIRC.
I mean, these are fair points. Someone pointed out that the shockwave came after the portal was made which I didn't notice. Although I find it weird because America's portals don't usually make shockwaves so why then all of a sudden?!
Also, even if it wasn't America's punches that made the shockwave, she still has enhanced striking strength which she showed throughout the movie. So yeah, Wanda is still tanking enhanced punches from America, thou these punches just aren't on the level of Thor's punches.
Also, the magic canon at Kamar Taj did hit Wanda. We could see how the magic energy touched her and was "burning" her (the best way I can manage to put it into words).
iirc, it was said that there was a lake over the tunnel.
But they are. Sure, they have better reaction and movement than regular humans. But their durability isn't anywhere far from that of a human. They're just peak human.
Black Widow and Hawkeye are definitely far more durable than normal humans. Especially Black Widow who straight up has superhuman durability. If you've even seen the Black Widow movie, you'd know her durability is far from that of a human. She's the most durable peak human in the MCU.
1. She tanked a slap from Hulk.
2. She was sent flying off of a bridge (she also hit a car on her way off of the bridge) and fell down from such a height in the cold water down below...
And yet, she was still able to swim across that entire distance (both a durability feat and a stamina feat)
3. She tanked the explosion of a grenade while inside of a tank with just a goon in front of her to protect her and coughed it off to then go back to fighting like nothing happened.
4. She was sent falling through another floor of the Red Room by debris that fell on her.
5. She fell from a roof, hitting multiple things on her way down but still managed to perfectly land on her feet.
6. After jumping out of a window, she fell like, two stories high and then caught a handrail and didn't get her arms completely ripped off.
7. She survived multiple fatal car crashes and getting blown up.
8. She caught a speeding Chitauri chariot and didn't get her arm ripped off.
9. She was buried under debris by Abomination.
10. Literally just this... This is insane.
11. After falling through the sky and fighting with Taskmaster, she pulls off a parachute at the last minute before hitting the ground.
12. She tanked knee strikes in the face from Proxima Midnight.
13. She got thrown on a car by Winter Soldier and got back up like nothing happened.
14. She tanked an explosive arrow shot by Hawkeye from up close.
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