Darth Maul vs. Supreme Leader Snoke

Maul respect thread:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/erkan12/blog/darth-maul-respect-thread-canon/154281/

Snoke respect thread:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/americanspeeddemon/blog/snoke-respect-thread/133702/

Settings

• Location : Neutral Ground - Kashyyyk
• Distance : 10 M
• No Prior Knowledge
• Maul as of TCW / Solo
• Snoke as of TLJ

Going with Snoke. Maul can block lightning with his lightsaber, but I don't think he'll be able to close the distance and he will tire sooner than Snoke, who I believe is more powerful.

The one who didn’t lose to a pathetic force trick when he can read their minds for goodness sake

X

Snoke.

Maul gets ragdolled.

Either Snoke overpowers Maul with the force and wins, or Maul pushes through the initial assault and slices Snoke in half.

I give the edge to Snoke until this version of Maul gets more feats, which hopefully he will because I want to see him on screen again.

Snoke is not going to outlast Maul.

Snoke has one feat that is really amazing that makes me guess that he is really powerful, which was the Reylo TP stuff, but I haven't read the books. I have no idea how Snoke is going to defeat Maul, one of the deadliest and most highly trained and skilled Sith in the entire history of the Order.

There aren't many arguments on here describing what exactly Snoke can do to Maul, and without that, I say Maul wins.

We've never seen snoke wield a lightsaber.

And why did you use such a crappy picture of maul lol. Should've took one from tpm

That said.. there are only a handful of characters who could beat maul in a saber fight.

@redheathen said:

He likely can overpower Maul's defenses with lightning. Snoke ragdolled Rey (according to the novelization, she was actively resisting) who performed one of the best TK feats in canon. She is also equal in power to Kylo Ren, who can freeze blaster bolts and knock people unconscious with TP. And then there's the Force bond that you mentioned. All of that leads me to believe that Snoke is far more powerful than Maul, and close to Sidious.

EDIT: Just remembered Snoke also ragdolled Hux from across the galaxy.

Maul's far more experienced than Rey and Kylo, so there's a chance he could resist Snoke's telekinetic holds. After that fight with Sidious on Mandalore, who knows what he might have learned on Malachor?

Because this is not TPM Maul, it's TCW / Solo Maul. I took the picture from Insider 185.

@erkan12: Oh dang, I forgot about solo maul. I watched it, I don't remember him looking like that though.

@erkan12: Yea I rewatched that scene, he just different because the only footage of him is on a hologram.

If the Willpower=Force power notion from Legends translates to canon then probably Maul, tbh. If not, then Snoke dominates with TK.

Snoke using TK, he probably won't let Maul get anywhere near him.

Maul by all actual showings of anything physical, or saber related has to be the victor here. I think Star Wars the franchise has its fans (us) in belief that Snoke is very powerful within the force, but with precious little combat application. If we are going off of the specs here, and we believe Reylo to be beneath Snoke in terms of force capabilities its a clear Snoke victory. If we go off of feats in combat im leaning towards Maul.

I also believe that Snoke is not dead, and he allowed his death in order to bond Rey (light) & Kylo (dark) together for some yet to be revealed reason within the force.

10 m? Maul blitzes he can cross that distance in no time... and since Snoke is relatively featless when it comes to actual combat he gets massacred

Maul cracks that big ass brain of his like an egg

Ahsoka, Kylo, Tiin and Kolar don't stand a chance of scratching Maul lmfao

Surprised that he's being the one lowballed here instead of Snoke, who does win in a fairly straightforward but not laughably lopsided contest.

I would say Snoke would easily overpower Maul through the Force since he can do so to Kylo and Rey, both who have feats that show they are extremely powerful. Maul fucks him up if it's a duel, however since Snoke has been said to be very frail.

Maul was trained by the greatest Sith Lord of all time...he wins against someone who hides behind his guards and force abilities...(Maul was even able to contend with Sidious for a while in their fight)

@insanity_:

Took the words out of my mouth??

@insanity_: He wouldn't get toyed like Rey did. Maul is actually veryyy attuned to the force, he just doesn't use it that much because why would you when your so good with a saber.

@insanity_ said:

None of those guys can actually take Maul though.

Ahsoka is worse than a post prime Maul per canon sources.

Tiin and Kolar have nothing to put them over Maul.

Maul by scaling can beat Grievous.

And for Luke he has literally no feats beisdes beating a conflicted Vader. All of his feats in TLJ happened on a Force Nexus so none of them are quantifiable.

You sure you're following Star Wars?

I feel bad for adding you to the tags...

Read this and come back later;

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/erkan12/blog/darth-maul-respect-thread/129270/

You know nothing as you just hilariously claimed fodders like Saesee Tiin or Agen Kolar could win a fight against Maul, even when Filoni said that Maul's apprentice Savage puts up a better fight against Sidious than the Jedi Council did.

And Kylo? :)) .

Ahsoka? It has been already stated that Maul is superior to her.

Vader fodderizing Maul? Another nice joke... An objective source states that a fight between Maul and Vader would be close,

''IT'S A CLOSE CALL, and these two Sith are well-matched in terms of fighting skills'' ....

Source: Star Wars Comics UK Magazine 04 (2014)

@arkhamasylum3: You tagged the wrong person

Maul is inured to lightning. He received it repeatedly from Sidious. He received it from others as well, and even though Mighella isn't as strong in the dark side as the Sith are, Maul still tanked hers and killed her while she used it on him.

Maul isn't given enough credit here. People are forgetting that regardless of all that is said, TPM Maul was one of the best trained, highly skilled, most deadly, and most dangerous Sith to have every lived in the entire history of the Sith Order. Ren wouldn't defeat Maul, at least not the Ren that we've seen so far, but I do acknowledge that Ren has incredible raw power. Then again, so does Maul according to Legends. His was incredibly high, higher than Tyranus', and so was Maul's Force abilities. However, the OP discusses an older Maul. Maul has more experience and has canonically become more powerful. The only thing that will hinder Maul in this contest is his mental state, but there is nothing that should be a psychological hurdle for him. Considering that, then Maul will be incredibly focused, and I highly doubt that Maul will lose.

The accolades and feats are not spun. They are what they are. As to the deleted scene, some that were deleted are canon and some are not. The ones that are not specifically say they are not, such as the deleted TCW season 3 scene when Bane and Revan were supposed to appear. Lucas specifically said that it was not possible for the Sith to have an afterlife, so the scene was deleted. There is nothing that says deleted TCW scenes are not canon in general. The movies have deleted scenes which if they are officially published are still considered canon. The tv show was considered part of the Lucas pillar just the same as the movies were. This show had Lucas' involvement just the same as the movies did. Give me a single shred of evidence that specifically states that this exact deleted scene is not canon. Otherwise, you are welcome to watch a video of Filoni on the SW site discuss that the only reason they deleted the Mandalore scene was because of time constraints. They had a lot of information to get into that one episode, and they had to cut a lot out because there wasn't enough time. There was no other reason.

Erkan is right. I know of at least two Legends sources that say Maul and Vader are almost evenly matched, and this is not 19 BBY Vader. This is a seasoned Vader. As to Sidious and Maul dueling on Mandalore, he had stopped playing around after Savage was dead. Name one person who lasted longer than Maul against Sidious other than Yoda. What is the big deal about losing to Sidious? And as to Obi-Wan? They are pretty much even. It has been stated more than once by Filoni that Maul lost on Tatooine because he believed that the fight from Naboo was being replayed. Maul may have been an idiot to think that, but it does not diminish his ability with a saber.

Vader <--- definitely defeating Maul, but it is close and a good fight. Legends Vader that is. We know for sure canon Vader >> Maul.

Anakin <--- ROTS Anakin post Invisible Hand, I easily agree with you.

Ahsoka <--- I don't think so because he didn't lose to her in Rebels. She walked away and left him dueling Kanan. Neither showed superiority.

Kylo, <--- What we've seen of Ren so far...No. Perhaps as he improves, but as of yet, no.

Sasse Tiin, Agen Kolar, <--- Seriously? No.

Dooku, <--- A 22 year old, Maul was canonically on par with 83 year old Dooku. This was Lucas' own ranking, but you did mention the fact that Maul might be a little over Dooku.

Grievous, <--- Canonically been done, and no, GG did not defeat Maul. Not by a long shot.

Luke, <--- Luke? Which Luke? Ironically, when TPM came out, Lucas said that no one had seen what a young, real Jedi looked like with a saber. Luke had never seen anything like Maul, so if you say Luke, then you're going to need to go with Legends Luke post-ROTJ.

Mace Windu, <--- Mace didn't defeat Maul when he and Secura doubled up on him. In one move Maul knocked out Secura and blocked Windu. Maul felt missiles coming in when Windu had no clue. In Legends Windu says that he is not as powerful in the Force as Anakin and Yoda, but also in Legends, Maul has as much raw power as Vader did. Maul > Dooku. Maul was also almost evenly matched with Vader.

Depending on which Luke, he and his ROTS father and Vader are the only people in the list that I think will definitely defeat Maul, but the rest a definite victor > Maul? Good fights, yes, but victory as an absolute? No.

I forgot to add Sidious and Yoda. Sorry for that. Both are a definite yes > Maul.

This is pointless to bring up, as is that Maul RT(or at least with the Legends material in it, not sure why there's both current Canon and Legends material, better off just separating the two to avoid confusion). Legends clearly isn't being used here given the OP pictures and per the rules of the forum where if not stated, go with Current versions of characters.

The OP said the characters *as of*, also, he himself used a Legends source.

Canon and legends, maul

Willpower has been mentioned as helping Luke win. I think also Anakin and/or Vader.

@redheathen: I'm curious as to how would you rate Snoke's power in the Force in comparison to other characters. He's got a couple of Sidious tier feats and I think that makes sense thematically, he was the new big bad after the Emperor.

Eh, I never did mind about the difference unless the old stuff contradicts with the new stuff, that's where the Legends and Canon difference becomes important, as far as I see the producers and writers don't really care and using the old stuff in the new canon from time to time.

Considering Maul's superiority over Ahsoka, I think it's safe to say that Maul would give more competitive fight to Vader. And how he casually chokes and ragdolls the Inquisitors who are confirmed to be former Jedi Knights, Maul's Force powers are still formidable even in the Rebels.

@richard96:

• Ragdolling Rey who performed one of the best TK feats in canon.
• Bonding Rey and Kylo across the galaxy which to my knowledge is an unprecedented feat.
• Ragdolling Hux across the galaxy, which is something that only Sidious has been shown to be able to do.

@richard96: You're welcome to show me a more impressive TK feat than Rey's from anyone sub-Dooku level. She's also equal in power to a guy that freezes blaster bolts and knocks people unconscious with a wave of his hand.

Maybe Obi-Wan could ragdoll someone across the galaxy, but given that nothing suggests this is the case, please understand that this argument is not changing my position.

I think he is very powerful, but other than a couple feats, especially one in particular, there just isn't enough to know about him, or at least that is my pov. I know some people even say he is more powerful than Sidious, but I don't think so. Is he Sidoius's level, comparable to Sidious? I know a lot of people also believe this, but I wouldn't say that based on what we've seen so far. I guess we won't see much more from him now because he is dead, so as far as I am concerned, he isn't as powerful as Sidious. At this point, to me, it's up for grabs. I have no idea.

I highly doubt Snoke could defeat Vader. I'd give Vader a 10/10 over Snoke in conditions where all things are equal. I think Kylo's potential is great, and I think Kylo is strong in the Force, but I don't see him defeating Maul anytime soon. In my opinion, Maul is somewhere between between Ren and Vader. We circle round back to the fact that I don't think Snoke is defeating Vader. Vader is the maximum limit for Maul and Snoke. Kylo is the minimal limit for Maul. I am left wondering how Kylo would have fared in a duel with Snoke if Snoke couldn't read his mind, and without the help of his guards. I don't know Snokes minimal limit.

Either way, I think if Maul is having a good day, then based on his combat experience and the lack information regarding Snoke's, Maul would most likely defeat Snoke. Of course there is the fact that I haven't read the books, so if you have more information about Snoke that you think would change my mind, then I'm happy to learn more.

R96 and I rarely agree on anything, but I do agree with him here. The second feat of his that you listed is impressive, but that is because we haven't seen anything like it in SW. As R says, it is hard to quantify. The other feats are standard SW fare of strong Force users. I don't think there is anything about it that would indicate Snoke could defeat Maul.

What is most important, IMO, is the fact that Maul grew up being tortured by Sidious. Maul's mental defenses should be exceedingly well-honed. I don't really understand how any of Snoke's feats indicate he will defeat Maul in combat. As shown in Rebels, Maul has the ability to communicate and to implant visions in another Force user's mind from...I don't know how far away, but off planet.

There is zilch as far as I know that addressed Snoke's combat prowess, and we know that Maul is one of the top duelists. Considering this and considering I what I've said above, I don't see how it is plausible for Snoke to defeat Maul until we get more information about him.

@redheathen: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. To be clear, I think Maul would beat Kylo Ren, I was just showcasing Kylo's feats to get the point across that he's very powerful and Snoke still dominated his equal. Just in case you got the wrong impression from my previous posts. Clearly I disagree with the notion that ragdolling someone across the galaxy is something that standard strong Force users are able to do. There is not much more I can add to the discussion though since there is little material to go by, so I guess we'll have to wait and see more of Snoke.

In case you haven't noticed, I have a habit of just talking. LOL =D I don't think I've gotten a wrong idea of anything you've said, and I apologize if I came across that way. I don't mean to belittle you or anything similarly negative. I start talking and tend to just type what I'm thinking.

I do agree with you, and I do thank you for pointing out that what I said about standard fare for strong Force users is incorrect...to a degree. I'm thinking of Maul and Ezra as stated above, but TBH, I really don't remember where Maul was in comparison to where Ezra was. His feat was nonetheless pretty impressive, or at least it was to me.