Maul vs Dooku in all categories

Maul vs Dooku (canon)

Who is better in the following categories?

This debate comes up a lot, with most seemingly backing Dooku. So in curious how you all rank them in the following categories:

1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All out/overall

They both can one shot the Sheev by feat. But Dooku have superior scaling. He should win solid all round.

Dooku beats him in absolutely everything except hand-to-hand and physicals

Speaking in terms of prime/Son of Dathomir Maul and prime/Revenge of the Sith Dooku:

1. Force: Certainly Dooku. He was a council level Jedi master who was second only to Yoda and possibly Mace. Maul has some above average showings but Dooku is still quite a bit ahead of him. Also, Dooku has force lightning, which is always great to have. Dooku would win 8-9/10 fights.

2. Sabers: Definitely harder to call. They are certainly not too far away from eachother. Let's look at their feats:

Dooku: Gave Yoda a decent fight, defeated AoTC Anakin and Obi-Wan, stomped TCW S3 Savage, defeated Ventress, regularly defeated TCW Anakin and Obi-Wan, defeated Asajj Ventress and Quinlan Vos and even handled RoTS Anakin and Obi-Wan pretty well for a time.

Maul: Handled TPM Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan pretty well and even killed Jinn, defeated TCW Obi-Wan, brought TCW S5 Savage to his knees, killed Pre Vizsla without drawing on the force, gave Darth Sidious a pretty good fight, fought evenly against Grievous, survived a fight with Aayla Secura and Mace Windu and basically defeated TCW S7 Ahsoka Tano.

Dooku's feats still seem better to me, so Dooku wins here too. Dooku would win 8/10 fights.

3. All-Out: Well, it would undoubtetly be a were good fight and I can even see Maul winning in certain scenarios but Dooku has a clear cut edge in the force and a comfortable one in saberskill. I just cannot see Maul taking down Dooku on a regular basis. Dooku would win 8/10 fights.

Mall, he's colder.

Dooku beats him in absolutely everything except hand-to-hand and physicals

Yep, force wise they have similar feats but Dooku still edges out due to versality, experience and superior accolades. Dueling wise Dooku is a tier above. Maul still struggles with pre-RotS Kenobi, TCW Ahsoka and Grevious. Dooku beats out comfortably RotS Kenobi and Ventress (who's > Grevious), is equal/slightly above prime light side Ani and can even somewhat keep up with Yoda himself. Maul is completely outmatched in sabers.

Dooku has a considerable edge in all three categories

Dooku is superior in everything except age

Dooku also superior in age

Dooku age 83

Maul age 52 at death

83 >>>> 52

I should have said physicality but I was le lazy

Force: Maul, he has better feats for raw power and his knowledge on sorcery gives him greater versatility(TCW/SOD and TPM Maul don’t have the versatility advantage, only Rebels Maul).

Dueling: Dooku, he has a more versatile main form and is more strategic.

All out: Dooku, Maul’s greater force versatility will only be helpful with prep and he’s post prime dueling wise in Rebels. If we go by Maul’s overall/dueling prime, he loses the greater force versatility and still has a worse main style than Dooku.

Force: Dooku no doubt, mostly due to Force Lightning.

Sabers: Not sure. Maul carries around a double saber so maybe him?

Overall: Dooku imo.

Force: Dooku, has better knowledge and arguably better showings.

Physicals: Dooku is good for his age but Maul is definitely superior.

Lightsaber skill: An argument can be made that Dooku is better but not to a huge degree.

Dooku slightly edges him out in everything for now. Maul will hopefully get some more feats when he is ruling the crimson dawn (cross fingers for a live action Maul vs Vader fight) and that could change things.

Crimson dawn?

Where would an LA Maul vs Vader fight even happen? The Obi Wan show?

@frozen:

1. Force: My first thought was to give this to Dooku, as I think stuff like lightning is something he has the advantage in and is probably slightly better with tk overall (since he uses it in combat more often), but on the other hand, Maul has great feats and has by far superior augmentation feats. I'll say 7/10 for Maul actually.

2. Sabers: Maul is a great duelist but I think Dooku has this in the bag. I think a lot of fans even underrate Dooku's skill, I'd say he's second only to Yoda and perhaps Windu, its just his augmentation that fails him. Dooku 9/10.

3. All Out: I think I give this to Dooku 8 times out of 10, mainly because there's a chance that Maul could break through his defences with speed and strength, I just don't think its as likely considering he's withstood Yoda's level of speed. And I'd find it more likely that in a drawn out duel, Dooku would end up exploiting a small mistake by Maul and win.

You watched Solo yes? It's his criminal organization.

It would mostly be him seemingly make Yoda struggling a bit, with things in the script saying they were equal in the force (though I do think Yoda is superior to him) along with Dooku having lightning, and Maul showing no signs of ever using it, a move Dooku used as a jedi and Rey used accidentally. In just raw TK feats, Maul actually has better ones I believe.

Either that or if they make a show following Kira in the Crimson Dawn. They could have the finale being Maul's criminal empire being destroyed by the empire and Vader vs him being the final fight, where he escapes and lands on Malachor or something to tie it in with Rebels. Maul made it seem like he fought Vader before in Rebels by saying he couldn't defeat him alone, indicating he knew somehow. Maul is cocky, so I doubt he would say that unless he personally faced Vader before, and it would be a massive waisted opportunity to not have that fight happen.

Oh no that‘s probably why I don’t know it

Force: Dooku

Even writers like Barlow who hold Maul in really high regards and seemingly like him more than Dooku still consider him to be less powerful. This is the guy who wrote Son of Dathomire which is immensely focused on Mau;'s story if I'm not mistaken.

Barlow however also seems to think Maul can take 6/10 rounds against Dooku in a fight thanks to his endurance, again however, he holds Maul in high regards compared to most writers I'd say.

His comments seemingly reflect both legends and canon.

Sabers: Dooku

Dooku is more skilled, to a decent degree I would say.

Jedi Master Dooku already has an armada of accolades suggesting he's arguably the most skilled Jedi of his time. This is including Yoda and Mace Windu:

He was a remarkable teacher and, of all those in the Temple, arguably the most skilled with a lightsaber.

Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection #12

His progress was exceptional, and many thought he was the deadliest of all the Jedi in combat.

Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection #12

As for Master Dooku vs Mace Windu;

“You were never able to defeat me at the Jedi Temple, and you won’t defeat me now.”

Star Wars: The Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels

Before leaving the Jedi Order, he was known as one of the greatest duelists, a match even for Mace Windu.

Star Wars: The Clone Wars: Villains Flipbook

In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents have ever overcome Master Windu in battle. One was Master Yoda himself, whom some say is the Jedi Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was Master Dooku.

Star Wars Miniatures Revenge of the Sith Preview 1 Mace Windu, Jedi Master

In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

Star Wars: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook

In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him; Yoda, and Dooku.

Starwars.com - Mace Windu Databank (Old)

His skills with his purple-bladed lightsaber were the stuff of legend, and it was said that he could be defeated in combat only by Master Yoda and the great swordsman Count Dooku.

Star Wars: The Official Figurine Collection #33

If you try to handwave the first quote; Dooku's goal with that statement is to get into Mace's head, so why would he attempt that with something that's just flat out untrue? a lie that would have no weight at all? This would be a comment that Windu can instantly determine is false.

“Need I remind you Master, I have beaten you before”

Star Wars: The Clone Wars Lightsaber Duels

Dooku is probably the more skilled combatant.

This isn't to say Maul is lacking in this department either, I just doubt he's as talented as Dooku with a blade.

Physicals: Maul

Dooku is described as having the body of a man half his age in the script of ROTS, which is a 42 year old man who stands at 6'5. He might be faster given his ability to fight Obi Wan and Anakin various times in extended fights too.

Maul on the other hand is a beast who's undergone years of brutal training under Sidious granting him immense strength, durability, pain tolerance and stamina.

With his cyborg Chicken legs he can break the limbs of Jedi strong enough to KO Savage Opress, and take strikes that would be fatal to Dooku.

All out: Dooku

For legends and G-canon anyway, I think the intention was that Dooku was supposed to be more dangerous. Sidious replacing each Sith with a more powerful one as the movies progressed always seemed to be the intention of it to me.

I think this question has already kind of been answered for Maul during the time of TPM:

Along with:

Star Wars Insider 109

More sophisticated, more calculating, and if anything deadlier than Maul, Count Dooku (a.k.a. Darth Tyranus) proved himself more than a match for the combined skills of Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker in Attack of the Clones.

This does not answer the question of who would win between SoD Maul and Dooku, if you consider Maul to be at his peak here rather than TPM. (not taking a side on that one)

However for my opinion, I think its unlikely that any version of Maul can replicate Dooku's performance against Obi Wan and Anakin in TCW S6 or last as long as Dooku did in ROTS.

For Dooku's stamina being an issue, he was still able to stand up to Yoda for a respectable length of time before making his escape despite being exhausted.

(Most of this was not found by me)

Literary sources stating he was exhausted:

Star Wars Fact File #103

Star Wars Relaunched Fact File #57

Star Wars Relaunched Fact File #57

Star Wars Relaunched Fact File #71

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We have several quotes noting that Yoda's fight with an exhausted Dooku took a lot out of him:

"Count Dooku’s Sail Ship takes off. Obi-Wan and Anakin struggle to the exhausted Yoda, but it’s too late. The Sail Ship rises into the air and flies away." - Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Script.

-

"Yoda halted the falling tower, pushing it aside. Dooku made good his escape, his vessel departing the hangar even as Padme Amidala arrived with reinforcements. The battle with Dooku had left Yoda tired but unbowed." - Star Wars Fact File #86.

The movie itself supports this take as it has Yoda struggling to hold up a metal pillar from crushing Anakin and Kenobi and has him limping and breathing heavily after retrieving his cane.

A fresh Maul fighting Sidious with the aid of Savage is comparable but shouldn't be as good.

Sidious made it clear he didn't want to kill Maul, Yoda intended to kill Dooku according to some sources, but didn't in others.

I think while its impossible to say for sure, I'd personally wager on Dooku winning in a confrontation against Maul.

Don't be surprised if I don't respond in short order, I'm as busy as a Bee these days. 🐝

1. Force; Dooku for technique, maybe Maul for raw power.
2. Sabers; Maul. Style wise and physically better.
3. All out/overall; I'd probably root for the red dude.

@w4nkdestroyer:

He doesn't hold him high at all actually lol. He said he was stumped when he was directed to have Maul vs Windu, because he thought Windu should easily beat Maul. Given that's not what the story creators wanted, it's clear he holds Maul below the level he should be.

Source?

Dooku is no peer of Yoda, neither is Maul, and there is not much between them in any category.

In a fight, it could go either way

Dooku all rounds

tho the saber one is close

Force: I will give it to Maul, his mastery of the dark side of the force is absolutely undeniable, which is why he survived being cut in half, a massive fall (while remaining conscious the entire time) and was able to self-sustain himself to survive using his hatred for years in horribly precarious conditions. Of course surviving impossible injuries is something very few Sith have achieved after training and merging with the dark side even in a spiritual sense, going beyond simply power-boosting through anger. In general, Maul has better demonstrations of raw power in this subject, so it would be reckless of me to claim that Dooku is more powerful when the feats until now prove otherwise, and the official statements don't support one over the other either, aside from Jeremy Barlows contradictorial statements as a random writer which helds no authority, and even the script of his comic was made by other people from TCW show.

As I can see, Maul also has a more diverse arsenal of skills with more practical use in concrete situations, from more creative forms of telekenesis, better use of resources available in the environment (objects), capable of using the force to deflect or dodge several blaster bolts at point blank without the need of a lightsaber, to the use of telepathy in the middle of fights, forms of using the force effectively to extract information from trained individuals against physical and mental aggression, to sensing specific beings on other planets or in space without even looking for it, the capacity of manufacture illusions (is confirmed the illusions Erza saw were made by him), and forms of pre-cognition such as being able to see into the future and witnessing Anakin Skywalker's rise to Darth Vader as Darth Sidious' apprentice, weeks before such an event even occurred (Dooku could have save his life with this power of force-vision), etc. The only advantage it would give Dooku in terms of force powers would be the constant use of force-lighting and the absence of Maul with that, which certainly not imply that Maul isn't capable (more considering there were users capable of mastering this without practice) and there are sources suggesting it's simply not his preferred tactic but he can actually do it.

Sabers: In this area I will limit myself to say that it can go in favour of either in terms of pure skill, they have different styles, the feats to make a point for either (if looked at with neutrality) are overflowing, in a battle where the skill is similar the victory would be defended by factors such as stamina, physical capactities, martial skill, the more open and adaptive combat style system, strategic, the pre-cognition habilities in force-users, etc.

Lightning are not necessarily mean greater in force power and ability. This no make a sense.

@sheevsmacker: If it was just a technique someone is taught I would agree, but jedi Dooku and Rey both used lightning just by being angry without being taught. Maul had full sith training and still never used lightning. Either they have some genes that let them use lightning easier, or Maul might just be weaker than them. Either that or Maul can do lightning and for some reason just never uses it.

R1 dooku

R2 maul

R3 cant tell

Maul not weaker than a Rey

By feat he can kill Rey

KFV never had lightning either, yet we know he is above Dooku.

@w4nkdestroyer:

Incorrect actually. Maul was stated to have easily beaten Grievous in SOD:

Dooku was possessed by Talzin and fought Sidious, while Maul easily drove Grievous away.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File Remake #070

Yes, he did. By force pushing him out of the battlefield.

He was shown struggling with Grevious in blades on their earlier encounter and while I believe Maul is definitely above Grevious in sabers it still shows Maul isn't that far above Ventress who's Grevious superior too.

As for the Ahsoka and Maul fights, there were plenty of circumstances at hand, not one of them favoring Maul:

Kenobi

Ahsoka

Yes, every time Maul loses a fight it's circumferential or PIS. If I got a dollar every time I see Maul fans say that I could buy a new decent car by now. You bought out the statements yourself, Kenobi wasn't amped after Adi Gallia's death in any way, he just took the fight more seriously and beat Maul's and Savage's asses until the former used superior force prowess to overhelm Obi. Same with TCW Ahsoka fight, it was stated multiple times Ahsoka did fought on Maul's level, they are both stated and shown as near pears to each other with Maul being a slightly superior. There's no reason to try and "debunk" those and look for loopholes where there's none.

Oh and I disagree with TCW S7 Maul being inferior to SoD, if anything he's superior as Maul himself stated that dark side is the strongest it's ever been during RotS.

ncorrect. Per the ROTS novel, Kenobi was practically stone walling Dooku's offensive. Dooku can only comfortably beat Kenobi when wielding Ataru, because he was trained by Jinn, who Dooku trained. This is noted in the AOTC novelization as well.

Quinlan Vos uses Ataru aswell and he did way better against Dooku than Kenobi. Fair enough on Dooku being a master of Jinn's, that could slightly benefit him. Movies always take a priority to novels in my eyes by the way, if the two contradict each other movies are the true depiction. And in the movie Dooku never shown any struggle against Obi whatsoever.

Filoni's commentary isn't binding,

Filoni is the main authority in TCW, his words matter the most out of everybody when it comes to TCW. But of course if his statements are clashing with what we see on screen show should take priority over statements. In case of Grevious vs Ventress there's no clashing evidence between statements and what we see on the show. We see Ventress besting Grevious in sabers fair and square, and later in addition to that a statement:

I still don't believe that, at this point -- one-to-one -- that Grievous could really take out someone like Ventress in a lightsaber fight.

Dave Filoni (2011 IGN Interview)

You are again looking for loopholes that aren't there.

and certainly contradicts Grievous' feats of stomping TCW Kenobi, who should be superior to Ventress.

Ventress and Kenobi were pretty much equal troughout the war, with Ventress even holding a slight advantage in sabers in TCW movie. As you obviously realize both of them grew immensly as the war progressed and while early versions of those characters struggled with Grevious, by the end of the war they both outgrew him. Force users become stronger with every fight, Grevious lacks that benefit.

Don't see why Maul cannot replicate the following, considering he's already doneso against Sidious.

Ahsoka stated Maul has no chance against Anakin and there's no reason to not believe her given Maul has no feats that suggest otherwise.

As for Sidious, he was clearly playing around with the brothers, I think we can both agree on that. And while Yoda didn't seem to go all out against Dooku either he definitely had more of a reason to take the fight more seriosuly than Sidious did.

^

KFV >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dooku by feat

In the films, Dooku has vastly outpaced Maul most everywhere. In the EU, depending on the source it's closer, but Dooku maintains that lead.

@sheevsmacker: TCW Sidious and ep9 Sidious are arguably different in power. If not, then I agree Maul>Rey.