Would BP's antimetal claws get through MC's shield? Suit? BP's Vibranium suit can soak up all types of different energy blasts, and steal the energy of incoming bullets. I read somewhere that MC's suit survived reentry. BP's also has enhanced human reflexes. MC, too. Who wins?
"Would BP's antimetal claws get through MC's shield? Suit? BP's Vibranium suit can soak up all types of different energy blasts, and steal the energy of incoming bullets. I read somewhere that MC's suit survived reentry. BP's also has enhanced human reflexes. MC, too. Who wins?"
MC's suit surviving re-entry was a special circumstance (if I am to understand it correctly). Since part of the suit's features involves a sort of "gel" (which seals any cracks in the armor if broken/provides cushioning for injured Spartans), the gel hardened while MC was going through the atmosphere, and thus took most of the impact for him/the main suit.
Anyways, I think MC wins, since I don't think what BP has will get through the shield (and MC has reflexes necessary to dodge at least some of BP's blows), and if MC wanted, he could book it to the bunker with weaponry in it. However, I'm sure that there are scenarios that MC could lose in.
"I had read in another thread with Cap Am vs MC, that cap's vibro shield could abosorb MC's shield as Vibronium can absorb most types of energy."
That makes sense, actually. It would probably let BP get through MC's shield.
Although, does Vibranium absorb the impact without giving any of the force? Like, if Spider-Man punched BP square on the chest, would BP still be driven backwards, or would he stay still?
"I had read in another thread with Cap Am vs MC, that cap's vibro shield could abosorb MC's shield as Vibronium can absorb most types of energy."
That makes sense, actually. It would probably let BP get through MC's shield.
Although, does Vibranium absorb the impact without giving any of the force? Like, if Spider-Man punched BP square on the chest, would BP still be driven backwards, or would he stay still?"
According to the same thread I mentioned above, yes. Yes it does. One poster said that the shield is what helps Cap hold his own against stronger opponents. All BP would have to do is touch MC (negating his shield, supposedly), and slash on end, as the anti-metal claws can tear through pretty much everything. Maybe. I think MC is faster, though. But how is he going to get through that Vibranium suit?
"I had read in another thread with Cap Am vs MC, that cap's vibro shield could abosorb MC's shield as Vibronium can absorb most types of energy."
That makes sense, actually. It would probably let BP get through MC's shield.
Although, does Vibranium absorb the impact without giving any of the force? Like, if Spider-Man punched BP square on the chest, would BP still be driven backwards, or would he stay still?"
According to the same thread I mentioned above, yes. Yes it does. One poster said that the shield is what helps Cap hold his own against stronger opponents. All BP would have to do is touch MC (negating his shield, supposedly), and slash on end, as the anti-metal claws can tear through pretty much everything. Maybe. I think MC is faster, though. But how is he going to get through that Vibranium suit?"
I know longer no the answer to this battle. It's close, then.
"Master Chief would beat T'Challa in a decent battle "
Well, we all know how fast MC is. How fast is T'Challa? And how would MC get through the vibrosuit? And what of the energy darts?"
A spiker would get through it easy it managed to get through the hull of Tanks and Brute armor no prob and don't forget the Cyber Sword that will cut through anything
"Would BP's antimetal claws get through MC's shield? Suit? BP's Vibranium suit can soak up all types of different energy blasts, and steal the energy of incoming bullets. I read somewhere that MC's suit survived reentry. BP's also has enhanced human reflexes. MC, too. Who wins?"
The energy daggers would negate the shield that Master Chief relies on. They worked on Iron Man's energy field. Here... Read the whole scan.
Based on what T'Challa did to Iron Man's force field with his energy daggers, I think the same thing can be done here.
Acheron said:
"Although, does Vibranium absorb the impact without giving any of the force? Like, if Spider-Man punched BP square on the chest, would BP still be driven backwards, or would he stay still?"
There was a theory that Buckshot came up with about T'Challa being thrown back by punches that were nullified by the suit. But, I can't find it anywhere.
Braise said:
"According to the same thread I mentioned above, yes. Yes it does. One poster said that the shield is what helps Cap hold his own against stronger opponents. All BP would have to do is touch MC (negating his shield, supposedly), and slash on end, as the anti-metal claws can tear through pretty much everything. Maybe. I think MC is faster, though. But how is he going to get through that Vibranium suit?"
The suit doesn't protect T'Challa from grapples, chokeholds, and submissions. Problem is, how long would it take Master Chief to figure that out, if given the chance?
I dont know if the Iron Man thing works with Mjolnir armour shields...I have never heard of any remodulation whateveres requiring a wave algortithim....So that may be obsolete with the Master Chief's armour. In which case BP can't do diddly to it. Also the Master Chief's suit works a bit like Vibranium in that the Hydrostatic Gel layer can be pressurised to absorb blows [thats how he survives impacts like the one at the begining of Halo 3] and has a fine cystaline layer that diffuses energy.
The Master Chief is EASILY fast enough to dodge everything BP can throw at him, they can see in Matrix style bullet time.
The Mjolnir armour has great sensors he could get to the bunker quickly with his speed and arm himself with all manner of crazy Halo weapons and take BP out at range at his leisure.
Can BP's suit be taken off? If so he is dead, with his speed MC could just take off any part of the suit then kill him with a slight touch, push his fingers through his brain with the same ease we could push through tissue paper.
On the grappling thing...MC is all about grappling...he had to beat a brute using Ancient Greek wrestling techniques. So if BP is vulnerable to this he is dead really quickly.
"I dont know if the Iron Man thing works with Mjolnir armour shields...I have never heard of any remodulation whateveres requiring a wave algortithim....So that may be obsolete with the Master Chief's armour. In which case BP can't do diddly to it.
Why wouldn't work? What makes MC's shield different from Iron Man's? Just because you've never heard of it doesn't make it so.
Logic Mark III said:
"The Master Chief is EASILY fast enough to dodge everything BP can throw at him, they can see in Matrix style bullet time.
T'Challa dodges bullets too. He's even dodged a lightning bolt from Storm.
Logic Mark III said:
"The Mjolnir armour has great sensors he could get to the bunker quickly with his speed and arm himself with all manner of crazy Halo weapons and take BP out at range at his leisure."
Unless is the Plasma Sword, none of his weapons will work on the suit. Including the Spartan Laser.
Logic Mark III said:
"Can BP's suit be taken off? If so he is dead, with his speed MC could just take off any part of the suit then kill him with a slight touch, push his fingers through his brain with the same ease we could push through tissue paper."
Not if he doesn't want it to be taken off. And, how would MC know about the suit's applications? Unless, he's prepped, he's not gonna know what the suit does. And, how fast does MC moves and react?
Logic Mark III said:
"On the grappling thing...MC is all about grappling...he had to beat a brute using Ancient Greek wrestling techniques. So if BP is vulnerable to this he is dead really quickly."
If he's close enough to grapple, then T'Challa is close enough to tear up his armor (and the Chief) with his anti-metal claws
@Static: Well we dont know if it was working on Iron Mans sheilds because of that specific way his works...It has never been mentioned, to my knowledge, to work in such a way for MC. So if his shield works in a different way then THIS weakness doesnt apply.
BP's claws wouldnt cut up MC anti-metal or no if he can't get through the shield...Its on ALL the time...when you get hit you see it, but its always there invisibly..so he can grapple and what not with no fear of the claws...if of course they can't get through...also not getting hit/hurt when up close doing moves is a huge part of grappling so im sure he could get in there and break up BP's bones before he can slice him up.
MC's reaction speed...outside of the suit a resting reaction rate is 20 milliseconds [this was actually when they hadn't fully adjusted to their augmentations it was slated to be quicker once they had]...with adrenaline its faster, then add the armour and it's about 5 times faster than that...she isnt in this i assume, but Cortanan makes it faster still.
The BP armour gets cut against the grain right...Many Halo weapons have bladed edges...Maulers, Brute shot, Spikers....these things would easily cleave BP as a plasma sword. Furthermore there are massively explosive weapons, Rocket launchers, plasma cannons, [Please believe...it slags tanks with ease BP aint surviving that...Vibranium has its limits and he doesnt exactly wear much of it] Spartan laser, needlers, sticky grenades, anti-tank mines. Also the way that Halo plasma works it could very likely just eat through his armour....Is he shielded from radiation in that suit? If not he will get cancer. It's possible that even normal guns will be enough since...because of the nature of their enemies forces, they use shredder rounds. Since the grain of BP's suit is vulnerable these rounds could open the suit up and well...shred him.
How do you mean not if he wants to for his armour coming off? Has someone tried it and failed?...MC isn't stupid. If he starts punching the guy with enough force to wreck tanks and doesn't die he will assume his costume does something for him, the spartan's brains were enhanced too...also he has a miriad of advanced scanners he can find out the properties/composition possibly.
Remember though Chief armor is from 500 years in the future and is made of a substance not found on Earth so there is no guarantee that BP anti metal claws would work on him
If worst comes to worst
Chief just goes to the Bunker, grabs an energy sword and fights over
"@Static: Well we dont know if it was working on Iron Mans sheilds because of that specific way his works...It has never been mentioned, to my knowledge, to work in such a way for MC. So if his shield works in a different way then THIS weakness doesnt apply.
Why wouldn't it apply, though? What makes MC's shield different from Iron Man's? How does it work exactly? If there's nothing that makes it different, it might as well be the same as Iron Man's.
Logic Mark III said:
BP's claws wouldnt cut up MC anti-metal or no if he can't get through the shield...Its on ALL the time...when you get hit you see it, but its always there invisibly..so he can grapple and what not with no fear of the claws...if of course they can't get through...also not getting hit/hurt when up close doing moves is a huge part of grappling so im sure he could get in there and break up BP's bones before he can slice him up.
Once the energy daggers disabled the shield completely, then T'Challa would be able to slice through the armor itself. No big deal.
Logic Mark III said:
The BP armour gets cut against the grain right...Many Halo weapons have bladed edges...Maulers, Brute shot, Spikers....these things would easily cleave BP as a plasma sword. Furthermore there are massively explosive weapons, Rocket launchers, plasma cannons, [Please believe...it slags tanks with ease BP aint surviving that...Vibranium has its limits and he doesnt exactly wear much of it] Spartan laser, needlers, sticky grenades, anti-tank mines.
Also the way that Halo plasma works it could very likely just eat through his armour....Is he shielded from radiation in that suit? If not he will get cancer. It's possible that even normal guns will be enough since...because of the nature of their enemies forces, they use shredder rounds. Since the grain of BP's suit is vulnerable these rounds could open the suit up and well...shred him.
How do you mean not if he wants to for his armour coming off? Has someone tried it and failed?...MC isn't stupid. If he starts punching the guy with enough force to wreck tanks and doesn't die he will assume his costume does something for him, the spartan's brains were enhanced too...also he has a miriad of advanced scanners he can find out the properties/composition possibly.
"
Yes, it does. Yet, Black Panther is know for maneuvering his body to where blades won't slash against his suit. Also, if the suit was able to withstand a blast of cosmic energy from Stardust without tearing, a punch from an enraged Hulk (he wrecks tanks too, but not T'Challa's suit), and blows from Namor, then explosive weapons won't do anything to the suit. Why do you think he doesn't wear much Vibranium? The entire suit is a Vibranium microweave. The suit itself allowed T'Challa to survive the explosion of a car. Rockets won't work because the suit would rob the rocket of it's momentum, and cause it to fall to the ground as a dud. The same would go all of his other weapons that shoot projectiles (Including shredder rounds. They moving toward the suit right?). Also, the Spartan Laser will not work because the suit breaks down EM (electromagnetic)-based and light based energy beams and such. Plasma wouldn't work if the suit itself protected him from the effects cosmic energy. The Spartan Laser looks like a powerful infra-red laser to me, and that form of energy is electomagnetic. Hence, it will not work. Vibranium may have it's limits, but I doubt MC has anything that would destroy the suit. If he does, then T'Challa would have added protection and then him and MC would be on even terms when it comes to wearing armor. T'Challa's Vibranium body armor would come right out of the suit just by thinking about it, and there would be no grains on T'Challa's suit for MC to slash.
The suit/armor is controlled by T'Challa's thoughts. He can cloak it to pass off as normal clothes and shorten or lengthen it to his liking. If he doesn't want the suit off, it won't come off. It doesn't really matter if someone has tried it or failed to do so. Also, the suit discharges electricity as a defense mechanism. So, taking the suit off isn't going to be simple.
Can you give me an example of of MC using his scanners to find the composition of materials? And, I don't think Cortana was specified by the OP.
HalJordan1986x said:
"Remember though Chief armor is from 500 years in the future and is made of a substance not found on Earth so there is no guarantee that BP anti metal claws would work on him
Yes, there is. If the suit is metallic, the claws would work. The claws break down metals on a molecular level, tampering with it's molecular bonds and causing them to liquefy. To prove that it can, you said the substance wasn't from Earth, but it was used to make armor. So, it has to be malleable, and possibly liquefied to make the armor in the shapes desired (the same was done for adamantium for Wolverine's bones). If not, then they U.S. wouldn't have been able to use the metal to make armor. There's no metal (unless it's enchanted) that can withstand molecular manipulation. Not even adamantium, and not even Captain America's shield (which has been a victim of such before).
Who's to say the energy daggers would disable MC's suit? Can BP's energy daggers slice through any material? Who's to say it'd slice through MC's body suit? And yeah, as I expected, MC's private bunker might not help him so much. I'm gonna have to check out what material MC's body suit is made of..
"Who's to say the energy daggers would disable MC's suit?Can BP's energy daggers slice through any material? Who's to say it'd slice through MC's body suit? And yeah, as I expected, MC's private bunker might not help him so much. I'm gonna have to check out what material MC's body suit is made of.."
What I said was that the energy daggers could disable the shield. It's the anti-metal claws that would slice through the armor.
"Who's to say the energy daggers would disable MC's suit?Can BP's energy daggers slice through any material? Who's to say it'd slice through MC's body suit? And yeah, as I expected, MC's private bunker might not help him so much. I'm gonna have to check out what material MC's body suit is made of.."
What I said was that the energy daggers could disable the shield. It's the anti-metal claws that would slice through the armor."
Ah, I see. My confusion arose when you said this:
"Once the energy daggers disabled the shield completely, then T'Challa would be able to slice through the armor itself. No big deal."
I thought you meant his energy daggers would disable the shield AND slice through the armor.
"Ah, I see. My confusion arose when you said this:
"Once the energy daggers disabled the shield completely, then T'Challa would be able to slice through the armor itself. No big deal."
I thought you meant his energy daggers would disable the shield AND slice through the armor."
Nah. LOL. Based on the info I found, the armor is composed of a Titanium alloy. The anti-metal claws shouldn't have a problem getting through the armor once the shield is disabled.
"Ah, I see. My confusion arose when you said this:
"Once the energy daggers disabled the shield completely, then T'Challa would be able to slice through the armor itself. No big deal."
I thought you meant his energy daggers would disable the shield AND slice through the armor."
Nah. LOL. Based on the info I found, the armor is composed of a Titanium alloy. The anti-metal claws shouldn't have a problem getting through the armor once the shield is disabled.
They are also comprised of Hydrostatic gel, underneath the plating, so that might afford MC some protection. Mark IV armor had no shield, while Mark V and VI did. However, even Mark IV had "an integrated computer system which continuously monitors weapons, biological function, and motion (through intelligent motion-sensing radar)", so there is a chance that MC would have BP's claws in mind at the start of the fight.
"They are also comprised of Hydrostatic gel, underneath the plating, so that might afford MC some protection. Mark IV armor had no shield, while Mark V and VI did. However, even Mark IV had "an integrated computer system which continuously monitors weapons, biological function, and motion (through intelligent motion-sensing radar)", so there is a chance that MC would have BP's claws in mind as the start of the fight."
According to that Wiki, the Hydrostatic Gel only offers protection from impact, as long as it's pressurized. And, it regulates body temperature. The system that monitors biological functions is monitoring the functions of lifeforms, hence the word 'biology'. As for it monitoring weapons, is it just for monitoring firearms or weapons of all sorts?
"They are also comprised of Hydrostatic gel, underneath the plating, so that might afford MC some protection. Mark IV armor had no shield, while Mark V and VI did. However, even Mark IV had "an integrated computer system which continuously monitors weapons, biological function, and motion (through intelligent motion-sensing radar)", so there is a chance that MC would have BP's claws in mind as the start of the fight."
According to that Wiki, the Hydrostatic Gel only offers protection from impact, as long as it's pressurized. And, it regulates body temperature. The system that monitors biological functions is monitoring the functions of lifeforms, hence the word 'biology'. As for it monitoring weapons, is it just for monitoring firearms or weapons of all sorts?"
*Shrugs* I could reach and say yes. :]
PS. I know what biological functions are. Though in retrospect, I'm not sure if that quote was referring to enemy units or the Spartan himself. PPS. MC's suit may have the hydrostatic gel harden upon contact with BP's claws, affording some protection then. "In the opening cutscene of Halo 3, John 117 is seen falling two kilometers, crashing down somewhere in the Kenyan jungle. It is later revealed that the gel layer took most of this impact, as John 117 is relatively unharmed.
PS. I know what biological functions are. Though in retrospect, I'm not sure if that quote was referring to enemy units or the Spartan himself. PPS. MC's suit may have the hydrostatic gel harden upon contact with BP's claws, affording some protection then. "In the opening cutscene of Halo 3, John 117 is seen falling two kilometers, crashing down somewhere in the Kenyan jungle. It is later revealed that the gel layer took most of this impact, as John 117 is relatively unharmed."
Yeah, but the hydrostatic gel would only harden on impact, pressurizing it. Slashing wouldn't pressurize the gel.
The Hydrostatic gel..like most things with the suit are mentally controlled...so he can boost it to absorb someones blows if he wanted to and it does have a crystaline layer that absorbs energy.
I don't know WHY MC's shield could be/is different from Iron Man's....chances are they are different being from different universes and what not...they didn't share notes on making shields...The MC's shields were based off of the Covenant ones and improved upon...If they were disruptable with some algorithim what nots like BP uses or something they would be utilising this....it would be extremely effective to take away the shielding for thousands of enemy soldiers and then just shoot them. Since we don't know the exact make up of the shield and how it works we can't really say one way or another that his claws would get through it....if he can even touch John that is.
When i was saying BP doesn't have much Vibranium i meant the suit isn't a mile thick or anything...its thin....it won't /shouldn't be able to withstand everything....ANYTHING involving a Herald and BP fighting and BP not being dead is stupid. Pure bull....Survivng cosmic energy is all good but do you know the composition and itensity of the blast? Was it plasma? If not then you can't say the plasma weapons will do nothing, his suit absorbing heat is all good but it has a limit im sure, same with momentum...are you sure a rocket fired at him would just stop? You have a scan of that? Absorbing momentum is all good but again it has a limit, also a rocket, grenade etc doesnt have to be aimed at him to be effective...it can impact the floor, a tree etc and still own him. The fact that people can push and punch him and he moves means there is a limit he isn't Superman because of it, the suit gets cut with normal blades, and glass etc so it obviously isn't invulnerable. There are plenty of ways he can die here.
Plenty of the weapons in the bunker still work against him. Many of the weapons are bladed. This suit in the scan...i dont read much BP but i don't see him using that all the time.
Black Panther is a peak human right? Master Chief is so much above peak human by a Marvel standard.
"The Hydrostatic gel..like most things with the suit are mentally controlled...so he can boost it to absorb someones blows if he wanted to and it does have a crystaline layer that absorbs energy."
Really? I didn't know that. I was under the impression that only his HUD was controlled mentally, and that Cortana monitored the suit's statistics and whatnot. Was this in any of the books (and if so, could you grab me a page number? I have all of them except for The Flood).
(Not being snarky or anything, I'm really wondering)
Well when they fall in First strike they turn up their hydrostaic gel...they dont press buttons to do it....They move the armour itself by thought, when they first got into the suits in Fall Of Reach John was thinking how he would like some form of communication with the other spartans and the com systems activated in the suit.....
Well when they fall in First strike they turn up their hydrostaic gel...they dont press buttons to do it....They move the armour itself by thought, when they first got into the suits in Fall Of Reach John was thinking how he would like some form of communication with the other spartans and the com systems activated in the suit.....
"
I will look these up.
(It's been a while since I read those two. Although, I believe the latter was activated by his AI at the time)
For the falling spartan's none of them had an A.I...only Chief has Cortana.
I believe at the point of getting the first few versions of the suits, unshielded versions, Cortana didn't even exist in terms of story progression at that point.
"The Hydrostatic gel..like most things with the suit are mentally controlled...so he can boost it to absorb someones blows if he wanted to and it does have a crystaline layer that absorbs energy.
I don't know WHY MC's shield could be/is different from Iron Man's....chances are they are different being from different universes and what not...they didn't share notes on making shields...The MC's shields were based off of the Covenant ones and improved upon...If they were disruptable with some algorithim what nots like BP uses or something they would be utilising this....it would be extremely effective to take away the shielding for thousands of enemy soldiers and then just shoot them. Since we don't know the exact make up of the shield and how it works we can't really say one way or another that his claws would get through it....if he can even touch John that is.
OK, and yet, bullets, plasma, and everything else deplete the shield. I don't see why the energy daggers wouldn't work.
Logic Mark III said:
"When i was saying BP doesn't have much Vibranium i meant the suit isn't a mile thick or anything...its thin....it won't /shouldn't be able to withstand everything....ANYTHING involving a Herald and BP fighting and BP not being dead is stupid. Pure bull....Survivng cosmic energy is all good but do you know the composition and itensity of the blast? Was it plasma? If not then you can't say the plasma weapons will do nothing, his suit absorbing heat is all good but it has a limit im sure, same with momentum...are you sure a rocket fired at him would just stop? You have a scan of that? Absorbing momentum is all good but again it has a limit, also a rocket, grenade etc doesnt have to be aimed at him to be effective...it can impact the floor, a tree etc and still own him. The fact that people can push and punch him and he moves means there is a limit he isn't Superman because of it, the suit gets cut with normal blades, and glass etc so it obviously isn't invulnerable. There are plenty of ways he can die here.
Plenty of the weapons in the bunker still work against him. Many of the weapons are bladed. This suit in the scan.. i don't see him using that all the time.
Black Panther is a peak human right? Master Chief is so much above peak human by a Marvel standard."
The suit doesn't have to be thick. Even while it's thin, it still takes a lot. And taking a blast of cosmic energy isn't bull. It's happened. Cosmic energy > Plasma. Cosmic energy is more potent then plasma. If anything, the blast would have been fatal if it was used to transmute T'Challa into something else, but that wasn't the case. And, I'm sure the rocket would stop. Why wouldn't it? The suit absorbs momentum from objects moving toward the suit. If not, he could dodge it. There's no need to post a scan for it because it's what the suit does. Even if the the rocket does hit, it's not going to affect him or the suit. Grenades count, too. T'Challa can dodge falling trees so it's not a problem. The suit's limit is unspecified, and no one is saying that he's Superman because it. It's just that you don't understand the applications of the suit. It's not like MC is supposed to be Superman (who could probably get through the suit) himself, because he's obviously not strong enough to hurt T'Challa with physical force or to get through that suit. And, most of his weapons would be useless anyway. People pushing and punching him doesn't make a difference because he's not getting hurt by it. If the suit is withstanding blows from the Hulk and car explosions, what makes you think any of MC's weapons would be a problem here? The suit has obviously protected him from bigger threats then that. Not to mention the Vibranium body armor for added protection. Don't make assumptions about a character if you don't read the comics. I understand you want to downplay T'Challa to boost up MC, but it's not gonna cut it. And, I've already addressed how he'd deal with blades slashing against him. Let me show you something.
Many of the weapons aren't bladed, and even if they were, it wouldn't matter. T'Challa dodges, anyway. As for the Vibranium Body Armor, it doesn't really matter if he doesn't use it much (he's actually used more often). It's an application of the suit (and the OP implied he had all of his weapons and tech), so it's valid. He uses it against greater threats.
Yes, he is peak human. But, it's not like MC is as strong as Thor. T'Challa has the tools to win this battle. Whether you want to believe it or not is your problem.
Logic Mark III said:
"i dont read much BP"
LOL. Obviously. I can tell by your posts. You don't have to tell me yourself.
@Static Shock: Not reading much doesn't mean not reading at all. I have read enough and seen enough to know that the robo armour he used against Doom doesn't get a look in every issue, more often than not its the standard black suit.
BP as a peak human is lower than MC in every aspect. MC is so much faster than him, and with a bladed weapon cutting against the grain he can kill him...dont downplay the going against the grain thing. I am not talking about strength...BP's afirmative action has ensured he can take hits from people that would crush him like a bug....I am talking about reflexes...the MC is so far above the peak human reflexes BP has. He can easily gut him with the many bladed weapons as i have said, heck they even have a standard issue combat knife.
The Rocket launcher explodes on the slightest impact doesnt require any force really so, yes, it does matter if you can show him being shot with a rocket and the rocket just stopping and being a dud. It doesn't matter the momentum is gone it will still touch him and explode in his face. Grenades fire off shrapnel...this has the chance to cut against the grain.
The GRAIN is the key here regardless of whatever else you say wont work, his suit can and has been cut. Master Cheif is fast enough to get BP with ease. It wouldn't even be a challenge. Master Chief would batter Captain America and they are basically the same man, except one has affirmative action on his side.
Transmutation isnt the same as searing melting matter eating plasma. Plasma grenades will stick to him, that doesnt require any force to stick, normal grenades can be left to 'cook'. Like i said most, if not all Brute weapons have a blade on them. Brute shot is a grenade launcher, agian it doesnt have to impact with any force, it doesnt actually have to impact at all. Vibranium doesnt help BP much here against weapons that can go against the grain or don't require force/momentum to be effective.
Like you said yourself BP isn't immune to grappling and such...you say he can cut the Chief then...but i don't think so as the shield will be up so he can take him out that way too.
"@Static Shock: Not reading much doesn't mean not reading at all. I have read enough and seen enough to know that the robo armour he used against Doom doesn't get a look in every issue, more often than not its the standard black suit.
It doesn't matter. He's used it, and it's comes out of the original suit. So, it's initial. As I said before, he uses it in certain situations. Does Iron Man always wear his Thorbuster or Hulkbuster armor?
Logic Mark III said:
BP as a peak human is lower than MC in every aspect. MC is so much faster than him, and with a bladed weapon cutting against the grain he can kill him...dont downplay the going against the grain thing. I am not talking about strength...BP's afirmative action has ensured he can take hits from people that would crush him like a bug....I am talking about reflexes...the MC is so far above the peak human reflexes BP has. He can easily gut him with the many bladed weapons as i have said, heck they even have a standard issue combat knife.
Look at the scan I posted above. And, Black Panther has been able to react to things normal humans cannot.
"The Rocket launcher explodes on the slightest impact doesnt require any force really so, yes, it does matter if you can show him being shot with a rocket and the rocket just stopping and being a dud. It doesn't matter the momentum is gone it will still touch him and explode in his face. Grenades fire off shrapnel...this has the chance to cut against the grain.
That's not true. The rocket won't explode unless it hits something. If bullets don't touch the suit when being robbed of momentum, then rockets aren't different. And, the impact of an explosion wouldn't bother the suit, as I've said plenty of times. The rockets fly straight, and if T'Challa can dodges bullets, he can also dodge rockets. If the suit withstands explosions, rockets won't work.
Logic Mark III said:
"The GRAIN is the key here regardless of whatever else you say wont work, his suit can and has been cut. Master Cheif is fast enough to get BP with ease. It wouldn't even be a challenge. Master Chief would batter Captain America and they are basically the same man, except one has affirmative action on his side.
Don't give me that affirmative action bullcrap. LOL. And, I never said that he couldn't be cut. But, T'Challa could also maneuver himself in ways that blades will not cut him. Look at the scan above.
Logic Mark III said:
"Transmutation isnt the same as searing melting matter eating plasma. Plasma grenades will stick to him, that doesnt require any force to stick, normal grenades can be left to 'cook'. Brute shot is a grenade launcher, agian it doesnt have to impact with any force, it doesnt actually have to impact at all. Vibranium doesnt help BP much here against weapons that can go against the grain or don't require force/momentum to be effective.
That's not true, either. The Brute Shot shoots projectiles that explode when they hit something. That's impact force. And, projectiles are moving. So, the suit will rob it of it's momentum, regardless. Doesn't cosmic energy do the same thing as plasma, save for all the other things that it does in the Marvel Universe?
Logic Mark III said:
"Like you said yourself BP isn't immune to grappling and such...you say he can cut the Chief then...but i don't think so as the shield will be up so he can take him out that way too."
You're right. I did say that. But, I did say that the shield would be disabled by energy daggers. If he's close enough to grapple, then T'Challa is close enough to slash through the armor.
His suits robs things of its momentum when they touch it right? Bullets do hit the suit....How is the rocket not going to touch? All it has to do is touch and BOOM. The Brute shot is a grenade launcher...you can shoot at a range where the grenade will 'cook' and simply explode in the air. Neither of these things require impact or any kind of forceful contact...just contact. Show me him surviving at the epicentre of an explosion with the same force as a tank destroying rocket. Or survive an explosion from a plasma grenade that can destroy tanks and burns away matter.
BP can dodge all he wants doesnt mean it will work. Master Chief trumps him several times over. If Sabertooth can cut him and choke him, and the Killmonger[?] guy in the scan can hit him, why can't the Chief? Who is much faster than those people and BP himself. Maste Chief is no normal human, he is far above BP's peak human, he is outclassed in terms of speed and manouverability here.
Again with the shield we dont know if its anything like Iron Man's. So using that doesn't work here. For all intents and purposes the shield is still in effect and BP simply can't touch him. Whilst he can strangle and cut BP at his leisure. BP can't hit with enough force in the slightest to even deplete the shield and like i said MC is faster than him he could evade BP like it was child's play. A good grappler, which the master Chief definetly is, won't be in a position that his opponent can strike at him, so him being close enough to get scratched doesnt work out, what fool would get in close without insuring their safety, why bring your self in closer to get harmed?
The cosmic energy thing was stupid. If Stardust meant to kill him he would be dead...anyway the blasts didn't exactly hit him like rain water he was forced down and battered by them. We don't know what Stardust hit him with and how hard...but put it in perspective, when Stardust fought Beta Ray Bill they destroyed planets and opened black holes and mfired blasts that were like suns. Again if those blasts were ACTUALLY meant to kill him he would not be alive that is beyond PIS and SH*T. Plasma is hardcore, consider that the sword they use, which is basically a lightsaber, is called a PLASMA SWORD. So the stuff is VERY hot and eats through matter VERY well. So a plasma gun is in effect firing mini lightsabers, apart from energy shields there is nothing that can withstand it properly, even vehicles armour is vulnerable to a plasma rifle or plasma pistol [don't go off of the games for them it does them no justice the books show you what they are really like]. Fuel Rod Cannons are basically the same thing but to the extreme.
Vulnerable to sonics, with grenades and whatnot going off all around him his ears will take a pounding making him sluggish.Gets cut by BONE claws. A 'lightsaber' and many other bladed weapons should be able to have the same effect.BP got kicked through a window and his suit got cut up. Also he seems to be taking off those gloves rather than mentally thinking them away..... Furthermore he actually gets battered by the Red Skull [he was in a Captain America clone body]...the Master Chief is so far above that.He threw the punch and felt the pain through his suit....Also if he is so invulnerable why is he dodging? surely he could just let the Skrull break it's own fists on his suit?Getting chocked by a guy who is 1. Weaker than John 117 2. No where near as impervious as John 117 and 3. Not protected by a forcefield.
I say BP's got all he needs to hold his own against MC and more. His claws should melt away MC's armor should the shield go down due to the energy daggers. Though MC's shield is replenishable it takes a few seconds to recharge, so BP would have to be quick to finish MC off. I don't know how fast or agile peak humans are. MC was peak human before his augmentations, and after them, (and along with the help of his suit), has been noted to have bullet time reflexes. This, I think, would help him most in H2H with BP, as both are noted as being one of the best in their selective universes, though additional speed and strength would definitely favor the Chief. Its like a game of Wasp vs Scorpion, MC has the potential to do damage, but BP's tough armor might be MC's undoing.
"His suits robs things of its momentum when they touch it right? Bullets do hit the suit....How is the rocket not going to touch? All it has to do is touch and BOOM. The Brute shot is a grenade launcher...you can shoot at a range where the grenade will 'cook' and simply explode in the air. Neither of these things require impact or any kind of forceful contact...just contact. Show me him surviving at the epicentre of an explosion with the same force as a tank destroying rocket.
Not just when they touch, but when they approach the suit also. Explosions won't work. Here, let me show you... T'Challa was in a limosine when it exploded. Look at the next scan.
Logic Mark III said:
"BP can dodge all he wants doesnt mean it will work. Master Chief trumps him several times over. If Sabertooth can cut him and choke him, and the Killmonger[?] guy in the scan can hit him, why can't the Chief? Who is much faster than those people and BP himself. Maste Chief is no normal human, he is far above BP's peak human, he is outclassed in terms of speed and manouverability here"
I never said that the suit couldn't be cut. It just so happens that Sabretooth was able to cut the grain and T'Challa didn't maneuver. However, he did so against Killmonger, causing the blade to break.
Logic Mark III said:
"Again with the shield we dont know if its anything like Iron Man's. So using that doesn't work here. For all intents and purposes the shield is still in effect and BP simply can't touch him. Whilst he can strangle and cut BP at his leisure. BP can't hit with enough force in the slightest to even deplete the shield and like i said MC is faster than him he could evade BP like it was child's play. A good grappler, which the master Chief definetly is, won't be in a position that his opponent can strike at him, so him being close enough to get scratched doesnt work out, what fool would get in close without insuring their safety, why bring your self in closer to get harmed?"
And, you never explained how the shield works, so I don't see why it would be different. The energy daggers have enough power to deplete the shield since bullets do the same thing. Being close enough to get scratched would work here. MC has to get close to grapple, and while it's happening, he slashing at him.
Logic Mark III said:
"The cosmic energy thing was stupid. If Stardust meant to kill him he would be dead...anyway the blasts didn't exactly hit him like rain water he was forced down and battered by them. We don't know what Stardust hit him with and how hard...but put it in perspective, when Stardust fought Beta Ray Bill they destroyed planets and opened black holes and mfired blasts that were like suns. Again if those blasts were ACTUALLY meant to kill him he would not be alive that is beyond PIS and SH*T. Plasma is hardcore, consider that the sword they use, which is basically a lightsaber, is called a PLASMA SWORD. So the stuff is VERY hot and eats through matter VERY well. So a plasma gun is in effect firing mini lightsabers, apart from energy shields there is nothing that can withstand it properly, even vehicles armour is vulnerable to a plasma rifle or plasma pistol [don't go off of the games for them it does them no justice the books show you what they are really like]. Fuel Rod Cannons are basically the same thing but to the extreme. "
I'm well aware that the blast used against him wasn't her strongest. But, you can't say that the suit isn't offering any protection from it. And, none of Stardust's blasts in that fight destroyed planets. There was a collision they had with a planet that destroyed it.
Anyway, I'm gonna address those scans of yours.
Logic Mark III said:
"
Anyone's ears can be vulnerable to sonics. And, Black Panther can move away from grenades and be far away from them enough to avoid them.
Logic Mark III said:
Gets cut by BONE claws. A 'lightsaber' and many other bladed weapons should be able to have the same effect."
I never said that blades or claws wouldn't work. You need to reread my post.
Logic Mark III said:
" BP got kicked through a window and his suit got cut up. Also he seems to be taking off those gloves rather than mentally thinking them away..... Furthermore he actually gets battered by the Red Skull [he was in a Captain America clone body]...the Master Chief is so far above that. "
I never said that he mentally thinks them away. I said that he has mental control over the suit, and that if he doesn't want it to come off, it won't. The gloves are able to come off because he wants them to come off. Also, you should read Black Panther, volume 3. Some of the events lead up to this fight, which was in the Avengers. Black Panther wasn't healthy, and had a brain aneurysm during that fight. So, he wasn't able to fight to the best of his ability. Red Skull, even though he may be on even terms with Black Panther in physical attributes, is nowhere near as good a fighter as Black Panther. Had he not had the aneurysm, Red Skull wouldn't have stood a chance. During the fight, he was also able to tear the suit with punches and kicks, when it's not supposed to. The suit was written inconsistently in that fight, and others.
Logic Mark III said:
"He threw the punch and felt the pain through his suit....Also if he is so invulnerable why is he dodging? surely he could just let the Skrull break it's own fists on his suit? "
T'Challa dodges because he wants to. Dodging is first nature for him, despite what the suit does. Wolverine dodges even though he doesn't need to, because of his healing factor. What makes T'Challa different? And, besides, you should read that whole fight. He thrashed that Skrull like it was nothing by attacking it's pressure points, despite that it was stronger than Black Panther. And, I think the suit only works with momentum against the suit, not from Black Panther himself.
Logic Mark III said:
"Getting chocked by a guy who is 1. Weaker than John 117 2. No where near as impervious as John 117 and 3. Not protected by a forcefield."
OK. You act like I said chokes wouldn't work. T'Challa could have easily stabbed him with an energy dagger set to kill, and be done with it. This relates to being close enough to get hurt.
"Although, does Vibranium absorb the impact without giving any of the force? Like, if Spider-Man punched BP square on the chest, would BP still be driven backwards, or would he stay still?"
I found that theory that I mentioned. Here.
Buckshot said:
"I do have a theory (separate from the most obvious/likely one: for the sake of entertainment and drama) as to why BP does get knocked back by punches. With a bullet, once the momentum is stopped, it doesn’t start up again. With a punch, when the fist hits the suit, it loses its momentum but the arm behind it can continue/restart the motion so there is force from that even though the actual punch was nullified. So basically it’s like punching a wall but your hand starts on the wall. That theory fits in with why BP can be choked but not actually hurt by punches even if he’s pushed back by them.
i just want to point out that sabe has or had adamantium bones and claws when he choked BP... wolverine cut his hand at the wrist between ligaments otherwise it is bad writing and no history knowledge of sabe.
"i just want to point out that sabe has or had adamantium bones and claws when he choked BP...
I was under the impression that the adamantium that Sabretooth had was taken out of his body and given to Wolverine by Apocalypse a long time ago. That scan right there was from a Wolverine issue during the Civil War.
yes apoc took his adamantium the first time.. but gambit help sabe get a hold of some adamantium from constrictor and and made a deal with sinister to help sabe with adamantium withdrawals because he became dependent on it...so a little of it was reintroduce into his body... later on sabe joined the weapon X project where they finished reinserting the adamantium into his bones again... also i think MC wins.
![BP got kicked through a window and his suit got cut up. Also he seems to be taking off those gloves rather than mentally thinking them away..... Furthermore he actually gets battered by the Red Skull [he was in a Captain America clone body]...the Master Chief is so far above that.](https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/8017/678384-ripped.jpg)
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