Marvel vs DC: "Illuminati" Prep Gods Smackdown

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darthjhawk

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#1  Edited By darthjhawk  Moderator

Marvel's "Illuminati":

No Caption Provided
  • Hank Pym
  • Iron Man
  • Black Panther
  • Mr. Fantastic
No Caption Provided

DC's " Illuminati":

No Caption Provided

  • John Constantine
  • Batman
  • Lex Luthor
  • Brother Eye

Battle Rules & Stipulations:

  • Combatants are in character, but willing to do anything to win
  • Both sides have exactly 1 year of prep, & Full knowledge
  • They're fighting in a generic city setting. It takes place during the day and they start roughly 5 miles apart and visible. Everything in the city (let's say the city is the size of Manhattan and surrounded by ocean) is on limits.
  • Battleground is Unpopulated and no worries for collateral damage/civilians
  • Incapacitation, knockout, or death all count as elimination.
  • No BFR

Battleground:

Unpopulated and no worries for collateral damage/civilians
Unpopulated and no worries for collateral damage/civilians

If I have this too lopsided one way or another. Just let me know and give a suggestion as to how I can make it more fair. Wanted to see what everyone thought about this matchup. Happy Debating!

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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Unbalanced in favor of team 1. They are much better rounded up.

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darthjhawk

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#3 darthjhawk  Moderator

@lanternbatman: Really? Tell me who to balance out for DC then please.

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blackspidey2099

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#4  Edited By blackspidey2099

I see you didn't include the best Marvel prep god.... I'm actually offended rn. jk

As of right now, I think Marvel wins, though I'm not familiar with Constantine, whose magic could be a huge edge for team DC. TBH, I don't think Prometheus belongs here. Maybe replace him with Ray Palmer or Mister Terrific?

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Team one

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@blackspidey2099: Ray Palmer? Do you WANT DC team to get stomped? As for Constantine, his main tool of trade is cunning. Cunning enough to trick Hell-Lords, Angels and even convince the freaking Presence with an argument. He also offers the House Of Mystery which exists outside of space and time (speculatively that should mean DC Team has infinite prep, since the House exists outside of time), can trap souls to other bodies, depowering kinda (like he cut off Swamp thing from the Green), etc. That’s some of what I know about him. IIRC he also has probability manip @darthjhawk: Brother EYE (with OMACs) and Brainiac>>>Luthor and Prometheus. At least change Prometheus with either of them.

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blackspidey2099

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@blackspidey2099: Ray Palmer? Do you WANT DC team to get stomped? As for Constantine, his main tool of trade is cunning. Cunning enough to trick Hell-Lords, Angels and even convince the freaking Presence with an argument. He also offers the House Of Mystery which exists outside of space and time (speculatively that should mean DC Team has infinite prep, since the House exists outside of time), can trap souls to other bodies, depowering kinda (like he cut off Swamp thing from the Green), etc. That’s some of what I know about him. IIRC he also has probability manip @darthjhawk: Brother EYE (with OMACs) and Brainiac>>>Luthor and Prometheus. At least change Prometheus with either of them.

Well, jeez okay then. I though Ray Palmer was easily one of the smartest people in DC. Also, I think you are seriously under-selling Luthor, who is the smartest person on DC Earth... Like he has made weapons that can one-shot Kryptonians without using kryptonite/red sun radiation IIRC. That should be more than enough to make him useful. Plus, didn't he create an AMAZO virus or something?

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@blackspidey2099: Palmer’s best feat is harnessing white dwarf star matter, to the point he shrunk some red suns to microscopic size. However, I don’t see how shrinking is going to help here’s. I consider Luthor to be a Batman lvl intellectual. I just don’t think his actual combat based prep capabilities to be that impressive. AMAZO Virus ended up making a higher end high tier Amazo (capable of fighting N52 WW And Superman at the same time). But almost every prepper here is herald to teambuster lvl, so that’s not very impressive.

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blackspidey2099

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@lanternbatman:

Palmer’s best feat is harnessing white dwarf star, to the point he shrunk some red suns to microscopic size. However, I don’t see how shrinking is going to help here’s.

Alright then, if you say so.

But almost every prepper here is herald to teambuster lvl, so that’s not very impressive.

I'm not convinced of this though. TBH, I don't think Black Panther or Iron Man have any teambuster level feats. Like Black Panther's best thing is Wakandan Hulkbuster, and Iron Man's is probably the Adamantium Sentinels, though they were mainly good because of Hank Pym's tech. I definitely don't think they are much better, if at all, than Lex Luthor.

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darthjhawk

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@blackspidey2099: The only preppers I feel don’t have teambuster prep feats are BP and Prometheus. As you said, Tony has Stark Sentinels, and while it was Pym’s tech doesn’t he have access to Pym Particles?

OT: With EYE, team DC takes a majority.

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blackspidey2099

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#12  Edited By blackspidey2099

@darthjhawk: CIB-Force Brother Eye with 12 million OMACs and the entire Justice League under control solos Marvel TBH.

This seems like a good fight. I still think Marvel wins because Reed is essentially a walking deus ex machina.

@lanternbatman said:

@blackspidey2099: The only preppers I feel don’t have teambuster prep feats are BP and Prometheus. As you said, Tony has Stark Sentinels, and while it was Pym’s tech doesn’t he have access to Pym Particles?

Idk I didn't find it impressive since basically anyone with access to Pym's tech plus adamantium could build them. It's also kind of a low end feat for like Thor since IIRC he's been able to break adamantium in the past. But you're right, especially with Pym on his team, he shouldn't have trouble building Stark Sentinels for this battle.

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deactivated-5b6e1b2130fed

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@blackspidey2099: CIB Force Brother EYE solos fiction.

OT: Going by what would happen in Comics, Reed would find the frequency of the OMACs and shut them down cause genius. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have plot to save him this time.

Edit: It still shows creative combat based thinking prep for Stark. What adamantium were The Sentinels made out of? Adamantium has been broken by Thor but there are different adamantiums out there.

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deactivated-5ebcd5ad9fb95

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Team one has better tech, but team two has the magic and numbers advantage (because of Brother Eye with his infinite OMACs). Still siding with team one though.

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haoalchemist

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Brother eye

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MrStranger

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Leaning toward DC due to versatility.

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SmoothSanta

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Reed has prepped for worse.

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IceHeart_30

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Eeef

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#19  Edited By Eeef

Team DC.

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Hope_w

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Reed and tony with a year of prep? Only one on DC team thats even close to a wildcard is Lex....

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Alsimmons77

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Team 1

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#24 juiceboks  Moderator

John is a weak link. If you switched him with someone like Ultra-Humanite, this would be a lot closer.

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Team Marvel

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#27  Edited By ProfessorRespect

Pym and Tony are kinda flops, Reed can carry. He's not a strategist but his tech is beyond anyone here. EYE gives DC processing power and a large landscape for building. Batman isn't as strong prep wise without knowledge, but he has the strategic mind and knows how to use less resources to achieve more, and knowing the other team gives him a great edge to use.

No idea why Constantine is being considered a weak link here: when it comes to magic, he's pretty damn good, and is a master of improvisation and has the House of Mystery (time manipulation is busted af) behind him, and he brings in a edge that no one else here has: a focus on magical sources and power. That's a critical blind spot that not even Reed has fully figured out. Lex is Lex and I don't think he'll add much here considering he's not a team player, at least not when he's not the smartest in the room.

All in all, either Reed comes up with something truly brilliant technology wise (probably Prime Mover tech) and carries Marvel to victory, or the DC guys shut him down through Batman coming up with some sneaky crap (probably would just take Reed's family hostage lol) and EYE's technopathy giving them the field advantage.

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@professorrespect said:

Pym and Tony are kinda flops, Reed can carry. He's not a strategist but his tech is beyond anyone here. EYE gives DC processing power and a large landscape for building. Batman isn't as strong prep wise without knowledge, but he has the strategic mind and knows how to use less resources to achieve more, and knowing the other team gives him a great edge to use.

No idea why Constantine is being considered a weak link here: when it comes to magic, he's pretty damn good, and is a master of improvisation and has the House of Mystery (time manipulation is busted af) behind him, and he brings in a edge that no one else here has: a focus on magical sources and power. That's a critical blind spot that not even Reed has fully figured out. Lex is Lex and I don't think he'll add much here considering he's not a team player, at least not when he's not the smartest in the room.

All in all, either Reed comes up with something truly brilliant technology wise (probably Prime Mover tech) and carries Marvel to victory, or the DC guys shut him down through Batman coming up with some sneaky crap (probably would just take Reed's family hostage lol) and EYE's technopathy giving them the field advantage.

Lol why would Batman take Reed's family hostage?

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@professorrespect said:

Pym and Tony are kinda flops, Reed can carry. He's not a strategist but his tech is beyond anyone here. EYE gives DC processing power and a large landscape for building. Batman isn't as strong prep wise without knowledge, but he has the strategic mind and knows how to use less resources to achieve more, and knowing the other team gives him a great edge to use.

No idea why Constantine is being considered a weak link here: when it comes to magic, he's pretty damn good, and is a master of improvisation and has the House of Mystery (time manipulation is busted af) behind him, and he brings in a edge that no one else here has: a focus on magical sources and power. That's a critical blind spot that not even Reed has fully figured out. Lex is Lex and I don't think he'll add much here considering he's not a team player, at least not when he's not the smartest in the room.

All in all, either Reed comes up with something truly brilliant technology wise (probably Prime Mover tech) and carries Marvel to victory, or the DC guys shut him down through Batman coming up with some sneaky crap (probably would just take Reed's family hostage lol) and EYE's technopathy giving them the field advantage.

Lol why would Batman take Reed's family hostage?

It's the easiest way to stop Reed fighting that doesn't involve trying to beat him in his own domain.

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@professorrespect: Wouldn't that be against his character? I think Constantine or Lex are more likely to do that.

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@professorrespect: Wouldn't that be against his character? I think Constantine or Lex are more likely to do that.

For Batman to take someone hostage to make sure he wins? Not really. OP does say "willing to do anything to win" and Batman having a plan with Constantine to get them in the House of Mystery until Reed gives up isn't that far fetched.

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@professorrespect: I've never really seen Batman take someone hostage to win, Lex and Constantine probably have done that before, and the OP said in character but is willing to do whatever it takes to win, which is kind of contradictory, I just don't think Batman will be the one taking hostages here.

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#33  Edited By ProfessorRespect

@ultraphoenix said:

@professorrespect: I've never really seen Batman take someone hostage to win, Lex and Constantine probably have done that before, and the OP said in character but is willing to do whatever it takes to win, which is kind of contradictory, I just don't think Batman will be the one taking hostages here.

Nah Bruce will want to end this as bloodless as possible, and the best way to it is taking hostages and saying "you concede this meanless battle and you get your family back or good luck trying to find them" etc. It's simple, no death caused, and everyone walks away fine with no negatives. Reed has full knowledge so he knows Bruce keeps his word.

Lex will be the kind to try and outmuscle the prep on Marvel's side, which will end badly for him as it usually does.

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@professorrespect: Full knowledge could also mean that someone on the Batfamily is taken hostage, which can create even more confusion.

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@professorrespect: Full knowledge could also mean that someone on the Batfamily is taken hostage, which can create even more confusion.

No one on the Marvel side is gonna have that mentality. Reed is a BIG family man, Pym is quite the sentimental type, Stark....just isn't that type of guy, and Panther does have some moral grey spots, but he would never go after personal family.

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@professorrespect: But why would Batman of all people go after family, that just doesn't seem like his character? Maybe he could tell Constantine or Lex to kidnap them since they have very loose morals, but Batman seems like the least likely to kidnap innocents. If he wanted a non lethal solution he could build traps or find ways to incap/depower the team.

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ProfessorRespect

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@professorrespect: But why would Batman of all people go after family, that just doesn't seem like his character?

With his mindset and the idea of a year of prep, this is the best option that doesn't end in everyone in a big mess. Bruce knows that Reed and the team knows that he's not the type to lie, and it's a simple act that means they don't have to jump the hurdle of trying to out prep Reed

Maybe he could tell Constantine or Lex to kidnap them since they have very loose morals

Constantine would just throw them in the House of Mystery tbh. Lex wouldn't care because that's not exactly his thing.

If he wanted a non lethal solution he could build traps

Build traps with guys like REED building all of his crap? How do you counter a Prime Mover or the Council of Reeds, or a Reed clone using a Ultimate Nullifier? I think Bruce will know with full knowledge that Reed and his team are too much on a one on one basis. He'll want to end this quickly and painlessly, and this is the best shot at that.

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Can Reed counter Constantine's magic? Because that alone can be the deciding factor in this battle.

Tech-wise, DC team is out of its league.

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@professorrespect:

With his mindset and the idea of a year of prep, this is the best option that doesn't end in everyone in a big mess. Bruce knows that Reed and the team knows that he's not the type to lie, and it's a simple act that means they don't have to jump the hurdle of trying to out prep Reed

Yeah but Reed also has knowledge and knows Batman doesn't harm or kill innocents, so he probably wouldn't be too worried, or could take pre-emptive measures to protect his loved ones in the prep phase, because he would know that guys on team 2 like Constantine have little to no morals.

Constantine would just throw them in the House of Mystery tbh. Lex wouldn't care because that's not exactly his thing.

The House of Mystery would probably be a good place to keep them, assuming the House doesn't mess with their minds.

Build traps with guys like REED building all of his crap? How do you counter a Prime Mover or the Council of Reeds, or a Reed clone using a Ultimate Nullifier? I think Bruce will know with full knowledge that Reed and his team are too much on a one on one basis. He'll want to end this quickly and painlessly, and this is the best shot at that.

He probably couldn't handle Reed one on one but with the rest of the team he could probably build some powerful trap or device to deal with team 1, and wasn't the Prime Mover built by Doom? Would Reed steal it for his prep?

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@professorrespect:

With his mindset and the idea of a year of prep, this is the best option that doesn't end in everyone in a big mess. Bruce knows that Reed and the team knows that he's not the type to lie, and it's a simple act that means they don't have to jump the hurdle of trying to out prep Reed

Yeah but Reed also has knowledge and knows Batman doesn't harm or kill innocents

Batman doesn't.....can't say the same for Constantine. Hence him being in charge of actually BFR'ing them to the House.

so he probably wouldn't be too worried, or could take pre-emptive measures to protect his loved ones in the prep phase, because he would know that guys on team 2 like Constantine have little to no morals

Eh Reed's family aren't exactly defenceless, and I imagine he wouldn't be able to counter magical stuff

Constantine would just throw them in the House of Mystery tbh. Lex wouldn't care because that's not exactly his thing.

The House of Mystery would probably be a good place to keep them, assuming the House doesn't mess with their minds.

Build traps with guys like REED building all of his crap? How do you counter a Prime Mover or the Council of Reeds, or a Reed clone using a Ultimate Nullifier? I think Bruce will know with full knowledge that Reed and his team are too much on a one on one basis. He'll want to end this quickly and painlessly, and this is the best shot at that.

He probably couldn't handle Reed one on one but with the rest of the team he could probably build some powerful trap or device to deal with team 1

I doubt it. EYE's technopathy is their best shot and there's already stuff made to counter that.

and wasn't the Prime Mover built by Doom? Would Reed steal it for his prep?

Reed made his own rather quickly once he figured out Doom was using one (not with any designs or anything...he just knew how to make one lol) and he knew how to use it easier than him. Rest assured he'll use it in some manner here.

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@professorrespect:

Batman doesn't.....can't say the same for Constantine. Hence him being in charge of actually BFR'ing them to the House.

Wouldn't that cause conflict in the team? Batman kidnaps innocents but is ok with letting Constantine or Lex harm/kill them?

I doubt it. EYE's technopathy is their best shot and there's already stuff made to counter that.

I don't know how effective team 2's tech would be against team 1, but Constantine has some pretty elaborate traps and illusions, if team 1 has good defense against magic they could prevent it.

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@professorrespect:

Batman doesn't.....can't say the same for Constantine. Hence him being in charge of actually BFR'ing them to the House.

Wouldn't that cause conflict in the team? Batman kidnaps innocents but is ok with letting Constantine or Lex harm/kill them

Constantine isn't going to actually kill them because it would make no sense from a logical perspective: removing their only ransom is pretty dumb. That applies to Lex as well, he's a bad guy but he isn't going to kill family cuz lol

I doubt it. EYE's technopathy is their best shot and there's already stuff made to counter that.

I don't know how effective team 2's tech would be against team 1, but Constantine has some pretty elaborate traps and illusions, if team 1 has good defense against magic they could prevent it

They'll probably think of something. It is a weakness tho

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@professorrespect: They don't have to outright kill Reeds family, but could torture them or something to get team 1 to give up, but I don't think Batman would approve of that.

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@professorrespect: They don't have to outright kill Reeds family, but could torture them or something to get team 1 to give up, but I don't think Batman would approve of that.

I doubt the need for torture is needed: you really gonna try and mess up Thing with his willpower? I think the threat of them being stuck in a timeless void that he can't really get to in the first place is more than enough for Reed to essentially give up.

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I mean, Batman isn't even that good with prep. Half the time, either his stuff fails, or it makes no sense and ignores canon.

OT: Marvel, due to the fact that they're used to working together.

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This is a tough battle to determine, a lot could be done with a years worth of prep and full knowledge, I think team Marvel has the edge in terms of tech, but team DC has the advantage of mystical prep thanks to Constantine.

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Team DC stomps. Replace Hank/T'Challa with Dr.Doom/Dr.Strange and that'd be a solid match I think