Marvel Mutant squad vs DC squad who wins?!?!

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SWA2point0

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Poll Marvel Mutant squad vs DC squad who wins?!?! (24 votes)

Marvel Mutants easily win 38%
Marvel Mutants barely win 29%
DC squad barely win 17%
DC squad easily wins 13%
Could go either way/stalemate 4%

Marvel Mutants - Jean Grey, Scarlet Witch, Magneto, Storm, and Juggernaut

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DC squad - Wonder Woman, Mera, Raven, Mongul, and Blue Beetle

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Rules

  • Post flashpoint and on for DC team and 616 universe for mutant team
  • No jobbing
  • No BFR
  • Win by death
  • No morals
  • No in fighting
  • No prep; everyone is just ready/prepared
  • Random Encounter
  • No outside interference
  • Standard gear; Mongul has 1 yellow lantern ring

Environment - 1/2 mile apart from each other

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JwwProd

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DC squad should win.

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SWA2point0

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@jwwprod: Good fight? :) Also you didn't comment on the Banished vs the Star Trek crew :(

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IndomitableRegal

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I give it to the mutants. Non jobbing Juggs > Mongul, Storm > Mera, Scarlet Witch > Raven, Mags > Jaime.

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Punyaamrit

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mutants should decisively win

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yoyoyoyoBidD

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Mutants win

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HellionVulcan

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Is Jean phoenix or not ? but since it's a bloodlusted fight, it's Wanda vs Raven in who kills the other team first unless it's Phoenix than she blinks.

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decaf_wizard

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Nobody here is capable of killing or really even heavily inconveniencing Juggernaut, as BFR isn't allowed

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decaf_wizard

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Also Juggernaut isn't a mutant

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sirkaboom11

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@decaf_wizard: Most people don't realize that when they put him in a match.

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Hyena401

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Team 1 in a hard fight, Juggs and Wanda MVP

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Olorun

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Why post a photo of phoenix?

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sirkaboom11

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JUGGERNAUT is unstoppable. Period.

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SWA2point0

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@hellionvulcan said:

Is Jean phoenix or not ? but since it's a bloodlusted fight, it's Wanda vs Raven in who kills the other team first unless it's Phoenix than she blinks.

Standard versions, so no phoenix :)

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SWA2point0

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@olorun: I was more a fan of the art work, thats why I write the rules :)

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green_skaar

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Marvel in tough fight

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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Without Pre Flashpoint feats for WW no one can be more than a nuisance for Juggs except Raven who’ll have her hands full with Wanda and Jean.

Mutants win comfortably.

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comic_book_fan

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phoenix solos easily

no phoenix still the mutants with little trouble magneto and juggernaut could clean house and jean and the others are powerful too so it's a clear win for team x

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SWA2point0

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#20  Edited By SWA2point0
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SWA2point0

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@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

Without Pre Flashpoint feats for WW no one can be more than a nuisance for Juggs except Raven who’ll have her hands full with Wanda and Jean.

Mutants win comfortably.

Shouldn't Mongul Sr. Do fine with tangoing with juggernaut for a bit? I mean wasn't he a superman tier guy?

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decaf_wizard

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#22  Edited By decaf_wizard

@swa2point0 said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

Without Pre Flashpoint feats for WW no one can be more than a nuisance for Juggs except Raven who’ll have her hands full with Wanda and Jean.

Mutants win comfortably.

Shouldn't Mongul Sr. Do fine with tangoing with juggernaut for a bit? I mean wasn't he a superman tier guy?

Superman tiers stand little to no chance at putting down Juggernaut (when he isnt being written by an idiot)

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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@swa2point0: it’s a pic of Mongul JR tho, who was constantly manhandled by Post Crisis Superman

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TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642

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@decaf_wizard: to be fair, while I don’t necessarily agree with that, Mongul Sr was ass whipping Pre Crisis Superman so it’d be a slightly different comparison than Post Crisis Tier Supes.

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geekryan

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The Mutants win in a good fight

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Mooty_Pass

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Mutants for the Win in a nice Long Fight.

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SWA2point0

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@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@swa2point0: it’s a pic of Mongul JR tho, who was constantly manhandled by Post Crisis Superman

Well I didn't put Mongul II, so I figured Mongul itself was SR, but yes in case of any confusion its Mongul SR non jobbing

@swa2point0 said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

Without Pre Flashpoint feats for WW no one can be more than a nuisance for Juggs except Raven who’ll have her hands full with Wanda and Jean.

Mutants win comfortably.

Shouldn't Mongul Sr. Do fine with tangoing with juggernaut for a bit? I mean wasn't he a superman tier guy?

Superman tiers stand little to no chance at putting down Juggernaut (when he isnt being written by an idiot)

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WarlordEternal

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Juggernaut isn't a mutant.

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WarlordEternal

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#29  Edited By WarlordEternal

@swa2point0 said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

@swa2point0: it’s a pic of Mongul JR tho, who was constantly manhandled by Post Crisis Superman

Well I didn't put Mongul II, so I figured Mongul itself was SR, but yes in case of any confusion its Mongul SR non jobbing

@decaf_wizard said:
@swa2point0 said:

@theincrediblesuperhulk8642 said:

Without Pre Flashpoint feats for WW no one can be more than a nuisance for Juggs except Raven who’ll have her hands full with Wanda and Jean.

Mutants win comfortably.

Shouldn't Mongul Sr. Do fine with tangoing with juggernaut for a bit? I mean wasn't he a superman tier guy?

Superman tiers stand little to no chance at putting down Juggernaut (when he isnt being written by an idiot)

Which Mongul Sr? Pre-Flash point Mongul Sr, non-jobbing, is still weaker than Mongul Jr.

"Sr" doesn't exist Pre-Crisis or New52. There was only one Mongul.

Rebirth brought Sr back and while it was a weak start, he turned into a beast during the Truth Arc.

Regardless of which, he has zero feats with rings.

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SWA2point0

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@warlordeternal: I thought both had feats with rings, I know the image is JR cause he defated Arkillo in a close fight, but yeah. So we can go with rebirth version if you think thats the best version?

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WarlordEternal

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@swa2point0: Only Jr had rings. Mongul was always more of a Superman villian, but Jr became a GL villain prior to Flash Point. New52 Mongul technically had rings at some point; however, it was never seen. Only mentioned.

By scaling and writing, Pre-Crisis is the best version. But Rebirth (specifically Truth Arc) is better suited.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@swa2point0: Mismatch. Add more power to DC. You'd need some sort of magical being or just a flat out powerful being to beat reality warpers like Scarlet Witch and Jean Grey (I'm pretty sure Jean manipulates reality). This might be a bit too much but add Dr. Fate or Captain Marvel instead of Mera or Blue Beetle. This would balance the fight more.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Well, lemme perform an analysis on the battle anyway. Wonder Woman loses to Phoenix or Witch if they maintain distance and act fast. Scarlet Witch is kinda slow with her magic, so WW speed could be an advantage in beating her. I'm pretty sure Phoenix can react at very fast speeds, but you never know. Maybe WW can catch her off guard. I kinda doubt WW beating them. Obviously she loses to Juggernaut, but I think Wonder Woman can decisively take out Storm. WW has a great level of durability and can tank more than enough to take out Storm. Blue Beetle is fodder to almost everyone on the Mutant Squad. Don't get me wrong, Blue Beetle is definitely on the higher end of the league, but the type of beings he can beat is a certain type and don't extend to sorceresses or someone as powerful as Magneto or Juggernaught. Since we're talking no morals, Mera would just suck the water out of Storm and kill her. If Magneto is too busy fighting other people like Blue Beetle (BB can definitely give Magneto some trouble), Mera could do the same to him. Mera has the capability to kill most everyone here, but I doubt she could get past SW or JG. So, at this point, Wonder Woman, Blue Beetle, Storm, and potentially Magneto are decisively out (Oxymoron). But hey, Magneto is eventually dead anyways thanks to Mongul. Mongul decisively takes out Storm and Magneto. But again, the strong matter/reality-warping, coupled with amazing raw power, easily takes him out. Even so, Mongul isn't beating a no-morals Juggernaut XD. Now it gets kinda interesting. We have our first DC sorceress. The bad news is that it's a 3v1. However, if we're talking early in the battle, cause I doubt she's just gonna stand around until a 3v1 XD. But this is no morals. Raven isn't gonna be scared to ask daddy, in which case, DC wins. I will stand by the fact that one bloodlusted Raven with her father helping and unleashing all her power is far too much for any of the remaining three to handle.

Refutations, Concessions, and Corrections are all openly welcome!! Thank you.

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EcstaticGrace

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#34 EcstaticGrace  Online

@swa2point0: Mismatch. Add more power to DC. You'd need some sort of magical being or just a flat out powerful being to beat reality warpers like Scarlet Witch and Jean Grey (I'm pretty sure Jean manipulates reality). This might be a bit too much but add Dr. Fate or Captain Marvel instead of Mera or Blue Beetle. This would balance the fight more.

Equalize speed and Mera would beat Post-Crisis Billy. Arguably from what I’ve heard of Blue Beetle he has better feats then Batson as well.

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barelyaverage17

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I wish there was a button for Mutants comfortably/handily win, but not easy. All of the DC characters are capable of doing some damage but not winning. Also, while Juggs isn't a mutant, he is related to one.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@ecstaticgrace: Can they? Shazam is a literal beast. He's capable of easily defeating superman, especially when not holding back. I actually take it back. Adding him to this fight would be a massive mismatch in favor of DC. Do you agree with my analysis of the fight?

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Also yes, I realize I contradicted myself a few times during my explanation XD. I apologize for that

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SWA2point0

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@swa2point0: Hmm. So that doesn't mean matter/reality manipulation? So I'd assume it's just the standard telepathy and telekinesis and some other powers I don't know of? I still don't see how that would hinder the battle? Couldn't Jean just hold WW in the air and they proceed to have a threesome? Jokes aside, I still think the combined might of Jean and Juggernaught or Scarlet Witch would be enough to defeat most everyone except Raven.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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Sorry if anyone here is a younger person and that joke is kinda nasty. I apologize for that XD

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@swa2point0: But yeah, actually don't change the DC team. Adding more powerful or viable members would make it a "MISMATCH OF EPIC PROPORTIONS," not really, in favor of DC.

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EcstaticGrace

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#42 EcstaticGrace  Online

@boutatakeanl: Not at all I feel like Shazam/Billy relies heavily on scaling and he’d lose to Wonder Woman someone Mera has taken hits from ontop of having her own hax that I think Billy could counter without his speed advantage. I definitely don’t think Billy could beat Superman let alone easily. Blue Beetle I’ve heard has a planetary feat and I’d put that above Billy as well. Batson relies on heavy scaling and even with it at best he’s Superman level, logically he’s a bit below Superman with magic keeping him in a fight against Kal

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@ecstaticgrace: Ahh feats show otherwise. The fact that he can casually tank hits from a superpowered Superman, equalize the speed of Barry when Barry is running for his life, and when not holding back, knocks Superman out COLD with literal ease, all show that he's vastly superior to Superman. Wonder Woman does not even come close to beating Billy. The Lasso of Truth compelling him to turn into Billy is BS. Captain Marvel controls his own lightning. It only turns him into Billy if he himself wills it. Otherwise, it merely augments him. Mera can't damage Billy. Not as far as I know. However, I think the disconnect we're having is specific versions of Captain Marvel. Post Crisis Captain Marvel, I can see losing to some of these guys. Other versions, definitely not.

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EcstaticGrace

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#44 EcstaticGrace  Online

@boutatakeanl: Sounds like a gross misinterpretation of some of the instances I know you’re referring too, so I could only just imagine some of the others. A non holding back Flash would dominate Billy speedwise. Billy knocked out Superman with a cheap shot using magically imbued punches and it was with 2 punches I believe one being a haymaker, he definitely wasnt holding back and by dialogue suggested it was something he wouldn’t expect to be capable of doing under normal circumstances. Without scaling Black Adam is lightning speed based off narration and feats. His speed was comparable to a older Jay Garrick who is probably the slowest Flash in the DCU. Billy shouldn’t be even thought to be able to react or keep up with Barry if the latter doesn’t want him to.

What other versions are you even talking about the only version I’d see winning is Pre-Crisis and that’s mainly given to scaling also to Superman but in fairness I don’t know much about that version so he could have some pretty uber feats that arent dependent on other characters.

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SWA2point0

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@boutatakeanl said:

@swa2point0: Hmm. So that doesn't mean matter/reality manipulation? So I'd assume it's just the standard telepathy and telekinesis and some other powers I don't know of? I still don't see how that would hinder the battle? Couldn't Jean just hold WW in the air and they proceed to have a threesome? Jokes aside, I still think the combined might of Jean and Juggernaught or Scarlet Witch would be enough to defeat most everyone except Raven.

Basically, shes got other powers but I don't think reality warping and matter mani are part of her set, that's more of Wanda's job which is why I have Raven in this fight :)

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@swa2point0: Ahh then you've balanced well. I'd give the win to DC purely based off the fact that towards the end of the battle, Raven is the biggest hitter while not holding back.

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BoutaTakeAnL

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#47  Edited By BoutaTakeAnL

@ecstaticgrace: I'm not saying Shazam is faster, but he's still in the same speed class. Flash would, by no means, stomp SHAZAM purely based off the fact he's faster, and not by too much. If this was the case Flash would beat Superman in every instance, which he never does. Shazam has beaten Superman his fair share of times, just like Superman has beaten Shazam.

And I'm referring to Day of Vengeance Shazam, God of Gods Shazam, Pre-Crisis Superman, Silver Age, and Lord Marvel. Hence, why I said only post-crisis would lose.

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EcstaticGrace

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#48 EcstaticGrace  Online

@boutatakeanl: those aren’t standard versions of the characters. imagine if we did the same thing for Juggernaut, Jean and Wanda and use versions like Trion, White Phoenix and House of M

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BoutaTakeAnL

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@ecstaticgrace: I know they aren't standard versions. I'm just saying they are alternative versions that would win.

Again, I still don't see how Superman beats Shazam.

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EcstaticGrace

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#50 EcstaticGrace  Online