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#1 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man

Represented by @blackpantherisb
Represented by @blackpantherisb

VS.

Hulk

Represented by @supremegeneration
Represented by @supremegeneration

Rules

  • Marvel Cinematic Universe versions for both
  • Iron Man is a composite version with all of his suits except for the Hulkbuster
  • Hulk has all of his gear from the gladiator fight from Thor: Ragnarok
  • In character
  • Morals on
  • No prep

Location: The arena from Thor: Ragnarok

No Caption Provided

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#2 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by GilgameshThePimpToEndAllPimps (2655 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#4 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every single thought, involuntary movement, finger twitch, pixel, glance at a gif, and example of good debating skill related to this CaV.

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#5 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by Subline (8420 posts) - - Show Bio
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#7 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb: Nice. I'm working on posts for a few other CaVs, so you can go first if you get a post up before me, otherwise I'll be able to in about 2 weeks.

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#8 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump for attention.

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#10 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every single thought, involuntary movement, finger twitch, pixel, glance at a gif, and example of good debating skill related to this CaV.

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#11 Posted by Kevd4wg (12798 posts) - - Show Bio

This is gonna be so good T4V

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#12 Edited by Amcu (16926 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every post.

Online
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#13 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27857 posts) - - Show Bio

Taaaaaaaaaaag

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#14 Posted by darthvaderrocks (1533 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#15 Posted by strangetales (1748 posts) - - Show Bio

T4v. This one looks fun! Will enjoy reading through it

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#16 Posted by The_Red_Devil (4961 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag after every post , a lot of people have started Repping Tony lately.

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#17 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6312 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#18 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP and T4V.

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#19 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (16602 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#20 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#21 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (4924 posts) - - Show Bio

TAEP

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#23 Edited by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man

“I’m a huge fan of the way you lose control and turn into an enormous green rage monster.”
“I’m a huge fan of the way you lose control and turn into an enormous green rage monster.”

Bio

Guidebook To the Marvel Cinematic Universe – Marvel's The Avengers #1
Guidebook To the Marvel Cinematic Universe – Marvel's The Avengers #1
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Guidebook To the Marvel Cinematic Universe – Marvel's Captain America: Civil War #1

Strength

Obviously, this is the category is Hulk's bread and butter: he is, after all, the strongest there is. And whilst I can't dispute that Hulk is indeed physically stronger than Tony, I can argue that the discrepancy isn't as large as many believe it to be. I'll start out on Tony's absolute lowest end:

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

In an impressive showing of strength, the Mark II tosses Tony in the Mark III clean through a solid concrete floor, and into another one, making a massive dent. And when Rhodey flies back up through the floor that he just hurled Tony through, we see that it is several feet thick.

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

With an exceedingly casual kick, Iron Man sends his multi-ton Rolls Royce limousine flying well over a dozen feet away. And again this is still incredibly low end for Iron Man. Let's start getting into some more impressive territory.

The Avengers
The Avengers

With one massive kick, Iron Man smashes Thor clean through a tree so hard that the God of Thunder's hammer is knocked clean out of his hand whilst he's in ragdoll. And this is very impressive considering the fact that in the same movie it took this much force to do the same thing:

The Avengers
The Avengers

After falling 30,000 feet and slamming to the ground, creating a massive crater/dirt explosion, Thor drops his hammer. Really only when Thor is hit with insane amounts of force like this does he drop his weapon, and Iron Man made him do so with a kick. This is a highly impressive display of physicality. But if you want something a little more quantifiable:

Iron Man Wal-Mart Custom Comic #1 - Security Measures
Iron Man Wal-Mart Custom Comic #1 - Security Measures

In this highly impressive feat from a tie-in comic Iron Man, with one fluid motion, grabs one tank and uses it like a baseball bat to bludgeon and destroy another tank. Keep in mind that the most common tank used currently, the M1 Abrams, weighs roughly 68 tons. If Tony can swing around 68 tons that casually he can certainly give Hulk some trouble in the strength department. And there's plenty of other material to support this notion:

The Avengers
The Avengers

During the famous forest fight Thor and Iron Man actually grapple midway through, and for several seconds it remains evenly matched. Granted Thor does begin to gradually overpower Tony and dent the forearms of his armor, but the fact of the matter is that Iron Man was able to grapple with Thor for roughly 5-8 seconds, and whilst towards that end he was getting overpowered, it still took effort from Thor, and Odinson never managed to fully overpower him. So while Thor is certainly above Mark VI Tony in strength, they are clearly comparable. This is especially impressive considering the fact that later on in the same movie Thor and Hulk are portrayed as peers in strength:

The Avengers
The Avengers

As you can clearly see Thor and Hulk are not far apart in terms of strength, Thor is able to block one of Hulk's hit with one arm, and then towards the end of the gif, using both arms, Thor manages to overpower Hulk's arm. So anyway just to conclude the scaling train Mark VI Iron Man is close to Thor in strength, and Thor is a near equal to Hulk (though Hulk is still slightly superior) in strength. Thus Tony isn't far off from Hulk in strength and certainly has enough physicality to contend with/hurt the Green Behemoth.

Firepower

This is a critical aspect of Iron Man's victory over Hulk, perhaps the most important category in fact. Tony simply has an enormous amount of ranged firepower/versatility, and he applies it liberally. Let's start out with his most basic ranged attack, his repulsors:

Iron Man 3
Iron Man 3

With a single blast of his repulsors, Tony sends a large grand piano flying well over 100 feet through the air, and into a helicopter hard enough to completely decimate the chopper's nose. And large grand pianos, like this, on average, weigh around 1,000 pounds. A blast that can casually ragdoll 1,000 pounds hundreds of feet is nothing to be laughed at. And this isn't the only time Tony has done something like this:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With a highly casual blast of his repulsors, Iron Man overpowers the momentum of Maw's telekinetically launched car to the extent that the car is actually sent hundreds of feet back down the block towards Maw. Obviously being able to treat multi-ton objects like cars like paperweights with effortless blasts is highly impressive. And similar blasts will certainly have an effect on Hulk considering that his energy durability actually isn't nearly as impressive as his blunt fore resistance.

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

With only two short blasts from his repulsors, Iron Man destroys a heavily fortified bunked and a turret. Destroying fortified military structures with single blasts is extremely impressive, certainly small building level in terms of damage output.

Now, what do all of the above three feats have in common? Tony accomplished them all with blasts that were extremely short in terms of duration. If he can accomplish such impressive feats with blasts that only take a fraction of a second to fire off imagine the damage he could do with blasts that last multiple seconds like the one he used here against Cull:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

If a blast that lasts for 1/10th of a second can ragdoll a multi-ton object hundreds of feet and completely destroy a reinforced and highly advanced military structure, then imagine what a blast like this, which lasts for multiple seconds, could do. Certainly enough to put the Hulk on his ass.

Next up in Iron Man's arsenal: missiles. This is a category where Tony has a vast array of various warheads. But let's start out pretty basic. First off Tony has his standard missile swarm that he used against the Chitauri ships at the beginning of the battle of New York.

The Avengers
The Avengers

In this instance, Iron Man unleashes dozens of missiles of the Chitauri horde, which causes dozens of small building level explosions to occur as soon as the projectiles find their target's. If Iron Man completely concentrated all those explosions directly on Banner, he could certainly do some damage/stun Hulk. And that's just the tip of the iceberg:

The Avengers
The Avengers

Here Stark shows off the incredible payload of explosives that he keeps in his legs when he goes to destroy a Leviathan from the inside out. When the explosives are activated that produces multiple smaller explosions, and end up generating one huge, building level blast that completely obliterates the tail of the Leviathan. Again, firepower like this will prove highly dangerous to the Hulk, especially when he has so much of it.

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With a larger, more direct missile Iron Man is able to do incredible damage, just like he does in this feat, where he blows clean open the wall to one of Thanos' O shaped ships. And keep in mind these ships are insanely durable, massively more so than anything we have on earth:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Ultimately the ship ends up crash landing on Titan at re-entry speeds, smashing through a huge structure and ultimately slamming to the ground. Granted the ship was damaged, but it only broke into pieces. Obviously, if it was made out of regular Earth metals the ship would've been completely destroyed and crushed. So busting clean through one of its wall is obviously highly impressive. And Tony can launch multiple of these missiles at once:

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

Considering the power of the missiles six of them at once, just as he used them here, would definitely do some damage to Hulk, especially since he can shoot them all in one single burst. And he has even more firepower than missiles and repulsors.

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

Arguably the most dangerous weapon in his arsenal is his lasers, in their debut appearance they cut through an army of solid metal heavily armored drones and through several trees, and what's so impressive about it is that they just slice through all of it like butter without ever actually being stopped. Hulk better have some insane heat resistance if he wants to tank these lasers without damage.

Durability

This is another category that is critical in Iron Man's victory, his durability is pretty insane, potentially above Hulk's. I'll start out by displaying his piercing durability and considering the fact that one of Hulk's main forms of damage output will be piercing considering the fact that he has his ax in this fight:

Iron Man
Iron Man

Here Iron Man takes repeated shots from F-22 raptors, and these things have incredibly powerful bullets. The bullets are 20 mm and have a muzzle velocity of over Mach 3, so no selling these is a highly impressive feat, and he has better:

Iron Man
Iron Man

In this instance Iron Man tanks a tank she straight to the face, and gets up seconds later completely unphased. Quite frankly I don't think that Hulk's ax can exceed the piercing output of a tank shell, so cutting/piercing Tony really doesn't seem like a viable option. Moving on to blunt force durability:

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

Iron Man blitzes at Whiplash, who proceeds to completely overpower his blitz and send Tony reeling back hundreds of feet and clean through a large wooden arch. Though this is still the lowest end of his durability feats:

The Avengers
The Avengers

Here Iron Man tanks a cheapshot hammer throw from Thor, and gets up seconds later completely and utterly unphased. And this is highly impressive considering just how powerful Thor's hammer throws are:

Thor: The Dark World
Thor: The Dark World

A single hammer throw from Thor sends Malekith flying hundreds of feet through two huge stone pillars, and into a car hard enough to ragdoll and completely deform it. So effectively no selling a hammer throw from Thor is highly impressive. But he has more:

The Avengers
The Avengers

Whilst restarting the Helicarrier turbine Iron Man ends up getting hit over and over and over again by the multi-hundred-ton propellers. And these propellers were moving at outright insane speeds, they outpaced Tony (which is how they tagged him) and he was moving pretty damn fast:

The Avengers
The Avengers

As you can see when Tony was pushing the propellor it was moving insanely fast, making 5+ full rotations of the massive turbine every second. And again the propellors ended up outpacing Tony, so essentially Iron Man was repeatedly battered by multi-hundred ton propellors that were moving at sub to supersonic speeds. I can't see Hulk replicating that level of damage output easily.

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Using his powerful telekinetic abilities Ebony Maw uppercuts Iron Man hundreds upon hundreds of feet into the air using the ground beneath Tony's feet. Yet seconds later Tony reappears seemingly unharmed. A hit like this is certainly more powerful than Hulk's average blow, and Iron Man has endured attacks that Hulk simply could never replicate without a massive amount of momentum:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Here Iron Man endures a hammer/ax throw from Cull Obsideon that send him flying a huge distance, clean through a building, and then several hundred feet after that into a tree. And the distance that Iron Man was hit is pretty insane:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

You can pretty clearly see that Iron Man was many blocks and several thousand feet away from the park considering the fact that large buildings were clearly visible in the distance many many blocks away (and obviously there are no buildings in the park). So Tony was hit many thousands of feet, through a building, and he still had enough momentum to fly a couple hundred feet into the park after that. I can't see Hulk replicating that level of force with a punch, and Tony got up from that hit more or less unphased.

Speed & Mobility

This is another section critical to Iron Man's victory, not only is he much faster than Hulk, but he also uses his flight and range liberally, especially against bricks, so Hulk will have a very hard time landing a hit on Tony. I'll start off with reaction speed:

Iron Man 2
Iron Man 2

Here, after Iron Man's helmet warns him that a missile has been shot at him, Tony casually dodges it. Keep in mind that he dodged the missile explicitly after it was fired. This feat already matches Hulk's most impressive speed showing which is catching a rocket that was fired at him. And this is still Tony's lowest end:

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

Whilst attacking a heavily fortified HYDRA base Iron Man dodges shots from several energy cannons after they've been fired. And this is highly impressive because this same energy was shown to move just as fast as machine gun fire:

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

I'm fairly certain that Hulk has never legitimately bullet timed, let alone dodged a barrage of machine gun speed energy blasts, so already I think we can agree that Tony holds a comfortable speed edge here. And this is clearly displayed by scaling off of characters both have fought as well:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
The Avengers

In their fight in Avengers Iron Man is repeatedly shown outmaneuvering and blitzing Thor using his mobility and speed. We see Tony objectively outbullrushing Thor in the first GIF, and slamming him into the side of a mountain, in the second Tony outright blitzes Thor and hurls him into a tree, and in the third Iron Man uses his speed and mobility to dodge Thor/knock him down, and then to blitz him once again. Obviously, Thor landed blows throughout this fight as well, and at one point he even briefly outperformed Tony in H2H combat, however, throughout the fight Iron Man landed more attacks (Thor landed 8 and Iron Man landed 12) and clearly had the speed/mobility advantage. Now let us contrast this to Hulk's performance against the God of Thunder:

The Avengers
The Avengers

In their first fight in the Avengers, it's made clear that Hulk is simply not on Thor's level of speed, and the Thunder God repeatedly humiliates Hulk in CQC. The instances where Hulk actually manages to land hits are due to his physicality, not his speed. For example when Thor catches Hulk's punch and the two begin to grapple Hulk manages to tag him only because both of Thor's arms were occupied to keep Hulk's strength at bay. The next time Hulk actually lands a hit is when Thor jumps on the Hulk's back, at which point Hulk uses his strength to jump through the ceiling, which leads to Thor being stunned allowing Hulk to tag the God of Thunder for the third time. This GIF clearly displays that Thor is simply faster than Hulk, and keep in mind that he didn't have his hammer here, which increases his range and mobility greatly (he obviously had the hammer whilst fighting Tony). And this isn't the only time the two have fought:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
Thor: Ragnarok

In their longer, more recent, and most famous fight we see just how large the speed gap between the two is. Over a nearly 45 second period, we see Thor land 11 blows and outmaneuver Hulk to get him into a sleeper hold. Meanwhile, Hulk swings at Thor 6 times, and the God of Thunder casually dodges all of his attempts. It is very clear that Thor is far above Hulk in speed, and again Thor didn't have his hammer here. Yet due to Iron Man's excellent reaction speed and insane maneuverability he was actually able to outperform Thor, despite the fact that Thor had much better range and maneuverability than when he fought Hulk.

And Tony loves to abuse his range and maneuverability especially when fighting bricks, just look at his fight with Cull Obsideon for example:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4
Avengers: Infinity War

As you can see Iron Man only actually engages Cull Obsideon in CQC once throughout the entire fight, otherwise using his flight and range to attack Cull and dodge his blows. And Hulk's weapons don't have the range or versatility that Cull's does, it can turn into a shield, it can extend and turn into a ranged object, it can turn into a grabbing tool, and it also is durable enough to block Iron Man's attacks, whereas Hulk's weapons will just get blown to pieces or knocked out of his hands right off the bat.

So clearly Tony prefers to use his mobility/range advantages, especially against bricks, and that coupled, with his superior speed, will make it very difficult for the Hulk to tag him, but even if Tony does get forced into CQC I'm still confident that he can outmaneuver Hulk in that aspect as well:

Captain America: Civil War
Captain America: Civil War

(Bet you didn't think that a GIF from this fight scene would end up in one of my posts did ya?) Due to Iron Man's underrated and highly effective fight pattern analyzing software Stark was able to completely outmaneuver, pummel, and overall humiliate Steve in H2H combat. To the point where the super soldier was totally unable to tag Tony (until Bucky distracted him). And Banner's record against super solider's is fairly interesting:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
The Incredible Hulk

In this instance, Blonsky, who had recently been juiced up on the super soldier serum (and Ross explicitly stated that the dose was very small) completely humiliates and dodges 8 blows from the Hulk whilst also manages to get several clean gunshots off on Banner. And keep in mind that all of the super soldiers have been shown to be able to keep up with each other comfortably, so Cap and Blonsky should certainly be comparable, especially considering the fact that Blonsky was given a small dose of the SSS.

So Iron Man, by analyzing Hulk's fight pattern should certainly be able to outskill/outmaneuver the Green Goliath in CQC, especially considering the fact that Iron Man also holds a solid reaction speed edge.

Conclusion

Overall I just think that Hulk is a one trick pony: he smashes, that's about it. And while he is physically stronger than Tony, that's just about all he had going for him. Iron Man is just as durable (if not more so), has a plethora of versatile ranged attacks that he can use against Banner, and holds a solid speed and mobility advantage that he tends to abuse against bricks. Overall whilst Hulk's weapons do afford him some greater reach, they will get blasted to pieces by Tony's rockets, missiles, repulsors, and lasers fairly early on in the fight. Granted one of Hulk's trademark moves is his jump, but Tony could easily just outmaneuver him/blast him out of the air if he tries this.

Really Hulk is going to have a hard time just laying his hands on Tony given the fact that he is slower, less mobile, and doesn't have any ranged attacks, meanwhile, Iron Man will be bombarding him with repulsor attacks, missiles, and bullrushes. Even if Hulk does tag Stark, his durability is high enough that he can tank Hulk's blows, and Tony's striking power is definitely enough to put the hurt on Hulk.

To conclude whilst Tony can certainly compete in the physical department due to his impressive strength, insane durability, and incredible speed (plus his fight pattern analyzing software), the real reason he wins is due to his versatility, his range, and his sheer mobility, all of which he likes to abuse against Hulk-esque characters. The fact of the matter is that he could end the fight without even coming into striking distance of Hulk, and I just don't think that there's really anything that Banner can do about it.

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#25 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb: I haven't forgotten about this, but CV recently ate a decent chunk of my post. Luckily I still have the first section and vast majority of the second.

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#26 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

arf

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#29 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by deactivated-5cc073360931e (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#32 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27857 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb: Just some shit KOL made up to further support his bait.

No, I actually say "arf" all the time, on CV, Discord, and real life.

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#34 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27857 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@blackpantherisb: Just some shit KOL made up to further support his bait.

No, I actually say "arf" all the time, on CV, Discord, and real life.

Can't a man bait on a Tuesday night anymore?

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#35 Posted by Aqualion0 (2117 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice.

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#36 Posted by Rosa_Melano (230 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#37 Posted by Ouroborik (3624 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#38 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11922 posts) - - Show Bio
No Caption Provided

I see a surprising - and almost worrying - lack of Thanos feats in your opener, @blackpantherisb.

Bio

I'll take one out of my opponent's book and use the MCU Guidebooks:

Guidebook to the Marvel Cinematic Universe - The Avengers
Guidebook to the Marvel Cinematic Universe - The Avengers

Now we all know the purpose of a CaV: prove your character beats your opponent's character by having the better arguments. In order to do that, I'll address my opponent's points head on. To begin with, the biggest issue I can think of when facing Stark for the Big Green Goliath is the former's sheer amount of weaponry. Let's get on with that, shall we?

Hulk's Energy Durability vs Stark's Sheer Firepower (+ Counters)

This first feat everyone should be familiar with. It comes from the titular Thor vs Hulk fight from Thor: Ragnarok and is actually pretty insane.

No Caption Provided

Here we see a newly powered up Thor with unlocked power blast Hulk with an absolutely insane amount of electricity. Not only is the force behind the punch itself great - moving Hulk that far with a single punch despite merely budging him earlier - but we see Thor's electricity course throughout Hulk's body even after Thor put his hand down. I'm not saying this'll allow him to nosell Iron Man's arsenal since Thor's punches are kind of unquantifiable, but his cloak alone is enough to mow down undead Asgardians. I'd imagine his direct punches whose aftershock left lightning coursing through Hulk's body are insane. Getting back up from this should allow him to at least tank repulsors with minor discomfort.

Now yes, Hulk's a little groggy, but that's more of a feat for Thor than an anti-feat for Hulk. Also note that while he takes a bit to get up, immediately after the punch the movie goes into slow motion, so it's likely less time than we think it is.

This next one is from the hype-generating Hulk vs Veronica fight from Avengers: Age of Ultron.

No Caption Provided

This, I believe, is a feat that indicates that Hulk can no-sell Stark's repulsors. While he may have had some insane upgrades over time, this armor had 6 arc reactors in the back that we could see, one in each leg, and the chest one + there are likely some we don't see as I remember some source saying he had 11+. Let's call it the nine, though. He had at least nine arc reactors in one suit, and Hulk literally just walked through a sustained beam. I doubt even IW Stark is packing the level of repulsors needed to do what you described:

If a blast that lasts for 1/10th of a second can ragdoll a multi-ton object hundreds of feet and completely destroy a reinforced and highly advanced military structure, then imagine what a blast like this, which lasts for multiple seconds, could do. Certainly enough to put the Hulk on his ass.

Because even if we assume, for some reason, that the Hulkbuster's repulsors were equal in intensity to Stark's regular suits, Hulk ALREADY walked through a sustained blast. Except I don't believe that the repulsors were weaker. Literally everything indicates that they were stronger: they visually larger than even the 400% power from the forest fight fired from a suit meant to fight an opponent who's caliber was yet to be encountered in the MCU (the suit was made before Ultron was an idea) that had at least nine arc reactors.

But the IW suit isn't a regular suit, it's a clear step up. However, from what you showed, it's not that far above by feats. It sent a car flying, but an earlier model fked up a military bunker. By implication it's more powerful, but by feats it's lacking. Your only other resource lies in the IW suit's nanotech function, namely the blasts he used to send Cull flying by having parts of his suit take off and amp his repulsage power. Those would prove an issue, but I'll address them should you bring them up.

Lastly is your missiles. I do believe these may cause some discomfort, but I don't think they'll be game changing either.

Next up in Iron Man's arsenal: missiles. This is a category where Tony has a vast array of various warheads. But let's start out pretty basic. First off Tony has his standard missile swarm that he used against the Chitauri ships at the beginning of the battle of New York.

In this instance, Iron Man unleashes dozens of missiles of the Chitauri horde, which causes dozens of small building level explosions to occur as soon as the projectiles find their target's. If Iron Man completely concentrated all those explosions directly on Banner, he could certainly do some damage/stun Hulk.

What causes you to say that these are small building level? Visually, each individual one is certainly far from that and there was no indication in the movie itself that gave us a sense of how powerful these things were. While I think these may have some effect in terms of explosions around the Hulk blinding him, I don't think they're anything special in terms of genuine output. Small building is definitely a step above that, unless it's a really small building.

Here Stark shows off the incredible payload of explosives that he keeps in his legs when he goes to destroy a Leviathan from the inside out. When the explosives are activated that produces multiple smaller explosions, and end up generating one huge, building level blast that completely obliterates the tail of the Leviathan. Again, firepower like this will prove highly dangerous to the Hulk, especially when he has so much of it.

It's definitely worth noting here that he had to get inside the Leviathan to cause any damage. The insides were clearly much weaker, as Stark specifically asked Jarvis for a soft spot in the Leviathan armor and he'd still have run out of power before making a dent with his laser. Now obviously missiles =/= lasers, but it sets a precedent that Stark needed to go inside the Leviathan in order to take it out. I would also like to note that this explosion sent Stark flying a decent bit, and even gave an opening for the Chitauri to fire at him and put him down for a bit.

That type of firepower is dangerous, but also hard to aim at a single target from the legs. Even then, that explosion wasn't exactly grand:

No Caption Provided

If anything, THAT explosion is what small building level looks like. I'm not implying the Leviathans were small building either, they were clearly building/building+ level foes, but Stark had to blow them up from the inside. The small missiles you showed first were a clear step below small building level. Even if I call it building level, I do think Hulk could still survive that, albeit maybe a bit groggy. I'll showcase why in a bit.

With a larger, more direct missile Iron Man is able to do incredible damage, just like he does in this feat, where he blows clean open the wall to one of Thanos' O shaped ships. And keep in mind these ships are insanely durable, massively more so than anything we have on earth:

Ultimately the ship ends up crash landing on Titan at re-entry speeds, smashing through a huge structure and ultimately slamming to the ground. Granted the ship was damaged, but it only broke into pieces. Obviously, if it was made out of regular Earth metals the ship would've been completely destroyed and crushed. So busting clean through one of its wall is obviously highly impressive.

See now this one would actually cause some discomfort to Hulk. It's an impressive feat. However, I think you're underselling the damage they went through. Breaking into pieces shouldn't be preceded by "but it only". The insides of the ship were also thrown completely out of place from what we saw before. The damage to the ship is more than you're letting on.

Needless to say, though, that those missiles are definitely going to be felt by Hulk. I do, however, believe that he can fight through a handful of them should the need arise. I'll showcase why in a minute.

I did have another problem to address first, though...

And Tony can launch multiple of these missiles at once:

Considering the power of the missiles six of them at once, just as he used them here, would definitely do some damage to Hulk, especially since he can shoot them all in one single burst

I really, really hope you're not implying that an armor from 8 years ago is capable of shooting 6 mini-wrist rockets that have equal intensity to a shoulder-mounted rocket from an armor that was not only stated by directors to be a clear step aboveanything Stark had done before, but also just way more advanced? I mean the missiles themselves aren't even the same. The ship one is pure impact, the one on the drones actually burned them a bit before exploding.

These are NOT the same missiles as the ones on the ship. To claim otherwise is to be disingenuous. I also doubt those are gonna hurt Hulk either.

Anyways, down to the feat that I believe will allow Hulk to tank most of Iron Man's firepower and then some. The feat I've referenced can be found in THIS video. It's too long to put in gif form.

Unfortunately, it's not time stamped, but at 8:59, Hulk begins getting to get barraged by Chitauri chariot fire, at least two dozen of them, non-stop. We see him get back up two minutes later at 10:59 with nothing but a nosebleed. The Chitauri are gone in that sequence, meaning that they finally stopped blasting him. There were, however, a likely handul of cuts. In the movie he starts getting blasted at the 2:02:45 mark, and is seen getting back up at the 2:06:00 mark. That's three minutes and 15 seconds of sustained Chitauri fire tanked with just a nosebleed. However, they were gone, so it was likely less time. Even if we take the original two minute time to account for events possibly happening at the same time, that's a long-ass time to be under sustained fire from over two dozen chariots. A meager two chariots did this:

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These two Chitauri chariots were dealing insane damage, visibly destroying the concrete and blowing up a decent portion of the building. But Hulk took destruction that would be over twelve times this, given that more blasters would cause more chain reactions.

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He actually seems only pressured by the initial barraged, taken a back, maybe even in pain, but not necessarily hurt. He came out of the ordeal relatively unscathed save for that nosebleed, which given the power of these blasts is actually insanely impressive.

Arguably the most dangerous weapon in his arsenal is his lasers, in their debut appearance they cut through an army of solid metal heavily armored drones and through several trees, and what's so impressive about it is that they just slice through all of it like butter without ever actually being stopped. Hulk better have some insane heat resistance if he wants to tank these lasers without damage.

As I showed above, Hulk took that lightning from Thor in their fight. Lightning is known for being five times hotter than the sun. Other than that, I can't recall a single named foe that Stark has used lasers on. Not Ultron, not Loki, not Thanos, not any of his own villains. I don't believe lasers are going to be much of a factor in this fight. He could've used them against Hulk during his Veronica fight, but he didn't, which could at least hint at the fact that he knew they'd be useless.

So yea, I fully believe that Stark's repulsors will be annoyances at best and his missiles, while powerful, are only going to be slightly more of a factor. They might tickle Hulk, but he's gone through much worse.

Speed & Mobility

Needless to say, I disagree with a handful of things in this portion.

Independent/Generic Feats

Here, after Iron Man's helmet warns him that a missile has been shot at him, Tony casually dodges it. Keep in mind that he dodged the missile explicitly after it was fired. This feat already matches Hulk's most impressive speed showing which is catching a rocket that was fired at him. And this is still Tony's lowest end:

Well, you mention it for me, so I'll just post it and leave it there.

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These things are roughly 650mph.

Whilst attacking a heavily fortified HYDRA base Iron Man dodges shots from several energy cannons after they've been fired. And this is highly impressive because this same energy was shown to move just as fast as machine gun fire:

I'm fairly certain that Hulk has never legitimately bullet timed, let alone dodged a barrage of machine gun speed energy blasts, so already I think we can agree that Tony holds a comfortable speed edge here.

You're right, MCU Hulk has never bullet timed.

Anyways, the feat shows great mobility from Stark's part in the air, but there's really no way to apply it to a ground fight. As for the scaling, I also disagree with it. There was a keen difference between the artillery fire and the gunfire. The artillery fire was bigger and exploded, the gunfire was just that. I highly doubt they were the same speed.

Even then, I'm not going to actually contest Stark's mobility and speed edge. He definitely has it. I will, however, contest how large the edge is and a lot of the things you mentioned for counters.

Thor Scaling

And this is clearly displayed by scaling off of characters both have fought as well:

In their fight in Avengers Iron Man is repeatedly shown outmaneuvering and blitzing Thor using his mobility and speed. We see Tony objectively outbullrushing Thor in the first GIF, and slamming him into the side of a mountain, in the second Tony outright blitzes Thor and hurls him into a tree, and in the third Iron Man uses his speed and mobility to dodge Thor/knock him down, and then to blitz him once again. Obviously, Thor landed blows throughout this fight as well, and at one point he even briefly outperformed Tony in H2H combat, however, throughout the fight Iron Man landed more attacks (Thor landed 8 and Iron Man landed 12) and clearly had the speed/mobility advantage. Now let us contrast this to Hulk's performance against the God of Thunder:

In their first fight in the Avengers, it's made clear that Hulk is simply not on Thor's level of speed, and the Thunder God repeatedly humiliates Hulk in CQC. The instances where Hulk actually manages to land hits are due to his physicality, not his speed. For example when Thor catches Hulk's punch and the two begin to grapple Hulk manages to tag him only because both of Thor's arms were occupied to keep Hulk's strength at bay. The next time Hulk actually lands a hit is when Thor jumps on the Hulk's back, at which point Hulk uses his strength to jump through the ceiling, which leads to Thor being stunned allowing Hulk to tag the God of Thunder for the third time. This GIF clearly displays that Thor is simply faster than Hulk, and keep in mind that he didn't have his hammer here, which increases his range and mobility greatly (he obviously had the hammer whilst fighting Tony). And this isn't the only time the two have fought:

In their longer, more recent, and most famous fight we see just how large the speed gap between the two is. Over a nearly 45 second period, we see Thor land 11 blows and outmaneuver Hulk to get him into a sleeper hold. Meanwhile, Hulk swings at Thor 6 times, and the God of Thunder casually dodges all of his attempts. It is very clear that Thor is far above Hulk in speed, and again Thor didn't have his hammer here. Yet due to Iron Man's excellent reaction speed and insane maneuverability he was actually able to outperform Thor, despite the fact that Thor had much better range and maneuverability than when he fought Hulk.

Well obviously I'm not going to contest the fact that Thor was dancing around Hulk for a large portion of the fight. This is an objective fact that anyone who saw the movie can attest to. There are a couple gripes I have in regards to Iron Man vs Thor, though.

For instance, your first gif of Stark objectively outbullrushing Thor... I don't really see how that's relevant in terms of combat speed. Your second scan is far more combat applicable, and watching the scene on YT, I have no gripes with it. He legitimately went at Thor and grabbed him before the latter could react. Could that happen here? Possibly. I doubt it, though, given Hulk's feat of catching an RPG which should be much faster than Stark was moving in that scene.

Your third feat is the one I have gripes with, though. Stark is on the floor, and all he does is move away from getting hit. Let's look at the way you presented it:

and in the third Iron Man uses his speed and mobility to dodge Thor/knock him down, and then to blitz him once again.

I disagree with this interpretation. All Stark does is merely boost away from Thor before he himself gets hit, then comes back around to hit him again before he could get up. Hardly indicative of genuinely outspeeding someone. It shows that Stark is willing to fight dirty and has more means of escape, sure, but calling it bona fide blitzing and outspeeding is a bit duplicitous.

At best these are showings of mobility, albeit handy mobility, but not exactly pure CQC. You yourself mentioned the fact that in actual H2H, Thor was clearly the better fighter. Let's look at that:

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All of your Thor scaling gifs for Stark are merely for going in and out of combat. In actual h2h combat, something inarguably far more pertinent to this match-up, we see Stark get casually dominated. It wasn't even a surprise attack either, given that he actually threw the first punch and initiated the sequence. I'm decently sure this is the only sequence in the fight that contained actual H2H combat. The rest of the stuff Stark did is useful, but again, not bona fide CQC.

As I said earlier, I won't even try and contest Thor > Hulk in the mobility department, but I did have to address it. However, another incredibly important factor to keep in mind (something I'm surprised you don't know, or just refused to show) is that Thor was weakened. Odin mentioned in a Dark World tie-in comic that using Dark Energy to send Thor to Earth would have a "cost" to both of them, that there are risks involved (link). In fact, the tie in's final page has him looking like this, right before the confrontation with Stark (from the very next issue). This will be cited again in another interesting scaling bit of yours.

Cull Scaling

And Tony loves to abuse his range and maneuverability especially when fighting bricks, just look at his fight with Cull Obsideon for example:

As you can see Iron Man only actually engages Cull Obsideon in CQC once throughout the entire fight, otherwise using his flight and range to attack Cull and dodge his blows. And Hulk's weapons don't have the range or versatility that Cull's does, it can turn into a shield, it can extend and turn into a ranged object, it can turn into a grabbing tool, and it also is durable enough to block Iron Man's attacks, whereas Hulk's weapons will just get blown to pieces or knocked out of his hands right off the bat.

First I wanted to address the notion that Hulk's weapons will be blown to pieces off the bat. While they themselves have no durability feats, the meager fact that they're strong enough to NOT immediately break on impact with behemoths like the Hulk and Thor should more than suggest that they're at least meant to be incredibly tough. His hammer survived the impact of being thrown into an alien wall that broke into pieces when Thor-level strength sent the Hulk flying, tearing that same wall. In fact, when Hulk directly hit his hammer, it didn't break into pieces:

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It was merely knocked out of Thor's hands. Thor's shield was actually shattered completelyon impact with this hammer. His axe should at least have similar durability. Lastly, his armor wasn't damaged from Thor's first huge lightning punch which left electricity coursing throughout the Hulk, and it stands to reason his weapons are made out of a similar metal.

However, there's a stark difference see what i did there?............. okay, i'll stop :( between Cull and Hulk's weapons. Where I agree that Cull has more versatility than Hulk does with his weapons, Hulk's style of weapon was very different.

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Where Cull had a shield for defense and thus could stop to block a few blows, all the Hulk has is two giant weapons. Two giant weapons that he seems adept at using, though. In the above gif he went at Thor relentlessly until getting a hit in, no stop in between. Now sure, the Hulk is Thor's friend and Thor was holding back, but it's not like Thor wants to get hit. He knows how strong Hulk is. Contrast the above, to say this gif of Cull. Cull doesn't necessarily struggle to swing his weapon, but it takes him far longer than Hulk. He's not swinging it as easily as Hulk is. Hulk doesn't just swing them around like an idiot either:

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He missed a leap because Thor moved, but immediately turned that into a hammer-handed backhand that sent Thor flying. The damage would likely have been far more significantly if Thor didn't have his shield up, but that's aside the point for now. Hulk is just brute force. There might be slight skill here and there, but at the end of the day, all he wants to do is hit you.

While Stark may have similar success with Banner as he did with Cull, it stands to reason that he may have similar failures as well.

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The first scan shows Stark getting caught while flying around in mid-air by Cull. Granted it was with a grab from his weapon, an option Hulk doesn't have, but it is in fact a viable tag.

The second scan is, to me, the most interesting. The fight picks up just after a cut to Maw/Strange, and Stark has a shield up. By this point in time, Spidey is in the fray as well, helping Stark to combat Cull. What I most want you to note is the gear that Stark has up: a nanotech shield. Shields are, first and foremost, defensive weapons, meaning that Stark knows he can't evade forever, EVEN THOUGH he has back-up. He knew he was going to get hit. He can't evade forever.

The third is self explanatory, he gets hit by Cull mid dodge-attempt.

So yes, while Stark can play the long game for what could end up being a long time, he's not going to be doing it for long. The only difference between Cull hitting Tony and Hulk hitting Tony is that Banner's blows will have afar more powerful effect. A shield-shattering blow that still sent Thor flying dozens of feet with a meager backhammer hit is going to hit Stark pretty hard. More on that in the strength section, though.

Even then, Hulk doesn't really need the weapons. Once Stark sees that his ranged attacks are going ineffective or just not enough, he'll have to resort to CQC, which is around when you'll start bringing out those Thanos feats. I'll get to that in the physicals sections as well.

Super Soldier Scaling + Analyze Fight Pattern

Oh boy...

So clearly Tony prefers to use his mobility/range advantages, especially against bricks, and that coupled, with his superior speed, will make it very difficult for the Hulk to tag him, but even if Tony does get forced into CQC I'm still confident that he can outmaneuver Hulk in that aspect as well:

(Bet you didn't think that a GIF from this fight scene would end up in one of my posts did ya?) Due to Iron Man's underrated and highly effective fight pattern analyzing software Stark was able to completely outmaneuver, pummel, and overall humiliate Steve in H2H combat. To the point where the super soldier was totally unable to tag Tony (until Bucky distracted him). And Banner's record against super solider's is fairly interesting:

In this instance, Blonsky, who had recently been juiced up on the super soldier serum (and Ross explicitly stated that the dose was very small) completely humiliates and dodges 8 blows from the Hulk whilst also manages to get several clean gunshots off on Banner. And keep in mind that all of the super soldiers have been shown to be able to keep up with each other comfortably, so Cap and Blonsky should certainly be comparable, especially considering the fact that Blonsky was given a small dose of the SSS.

So Iron Man, by analyzing Hulk's fight pattern should certainly be able to outskill/outmaneuver the Green Goliath in CQC, especially considering the fact that Iron Man also holds a solid reaction speed edge.

First I have to emphasize: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. Now let me re-emphasize: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. Let's reiterate: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. This one is important too: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.

It's a simple matter here, really... Hulk has no skill to be analyzed. He has moments of skill (which mostly stem from experience, not actual technical ability), but for the most part, all he does is brute force his way to a victory. Moves here and there don't compare to the years of formal, actual training that Cap possesses, nor do they compare to Cap's actual, tested skill in combat. In fact, it's highly similar to Stark's own fight against Captain Rogers and Sergeant Barnes: he lands blows not due to any formal training, but just picking up moves from years on the job. Lastly, this seems like a tool that would have been insanely handy during the events of Infinity War.

Even then, the circumstances are far different as well. Against Cap, Stark had a pathetic armor, far less space than he does here, had already damaged parts (targeting system, flying, a gauntlet was already crushed by Bucky, he had... either a concussion or contusion, etc).

Let's take a look at what happens when Stark doesn't use this system:

parts cut out (Rhodey chasing Sam, Buck vs T'Challa)
parts cut out (Rhodey chasing Sam, Buck vs T'Challa)

At the beginning of the big team fight during the Airport Battle, Cap and Stark have a brief scuffle that Cap clearly dominates, easily dodging a blow and hitting the armored Avenger, then swiftly blocking and pushing Stark back, leaving him open to an arrow from Clint.

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Here, Stark has Bucky on the floor, gets hit by Cap's shield, gets up before Cap gets the shield back, and still gets rammed before having the opportunity to do anything.

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Here he seemingly trades evenly with the Super Soldier, save for the fact that only one of them is fast and skilled enough to get the other in a chokehold.

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Even Bucky was able to swiftly dodge a blow and get Iron Man in a position to be tag-teamed by the duo. While Buck does later on get punched twice, Bucky comes off looking far more skilled in that exchange, blocking many blows and getting him into position for another brutal punch that almost costs Stark his arc reactor.

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And of course, the infamous pre-"analyze his fight pattern" sequence. Note that this scene is actually a good bit longer than seen here, as I edited out all the parts that have Tony's face on them.

Let's compare the above gifs to those you showed for Blonsky:

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Out of the two combatants in this fight, only one of them was capable of fully keeping track of their opponent, pressing them defensively for a while, and actively engage in a fight. Not only this, but Hulk was using two unconventional weapons in the scenario. Here, he not only has more range, he's shown at least basic level training with his axe + hammer. Now sure, Cap is superior to Blonsky on-paper, but as I mentioned just then, there are a few factors that would make the situation far closer between Hulk and Stark.

Before I get called out for using Civil War armor feats, I do need to highlight that my opponent brought it up first. I do need to reiterate the idea that Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern, though. Let's recall that the ONLY time he used it was when he was already overwhelmed. It would've been handy to use before that, say during the 2v1 when he was getting the tar beat out of him. Replace Cap in the gif I posted earlier with the freaking Hulk... how do you think that's gonna go down?

So to put it bluntly, while I don't disagree that Stark is the more mobile and maneuverable of the two fighters in this debate, I do believe you overhyped him quite a bit.

  • You didn't mention that he faced off against a weakened Thor and misrepresented at least one of those gifs (the "blitz" on a recovering Thor). Stark also got demolished in pure H2H, which is likely what most of this battle will be (i.e Stark's fight with Thanos).
  • As I mentioned, I'm not going to touch Hulk vs Thanos because it's true: Thor is indeed the faster combatant in comparison to Hulk.
  • Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.
  • Your Cull gifs were fair, but as I mentioned, where Stark experienced success against an inferior opponent to Hulk, it's not unlikely that he'll face even worse failure against a superior opponent to Cull.
  • Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.
  • Hulk doesn't really have a fighting style to be analyzed, and it was a function Stark only used when on the brink. He also never used it again. Replace Cap with the freaking Hulk when Stark used it, and he's not gonna live to use it.
  • Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.
  • Hulk also did far better against a Super Soldier than Stark did... It really wasn't even a close comparison. Stark was getting blitzed left and right, and at one point couldn't even react properly to an absolute onslaught. Hulk had enough dexterity and mobility to keep track of Blonsky and even press the offensive, something that Stark didn't do until he pulled a move he never pulled again.

Hulk's Striking & Weapons vs Stark's Durability

The Axe vs Stark's Piercing Resistance

The axe, hammer and armor were honestly more for the cool factor. The axe is, in every essence of the word, absolutely featless. The only thing I could argue is that Hulk's insane strength would be enough to pierce through to Stark, but I doubt even that.

This is another category that is critical in Iron Man's victory, his durability is pretty insane, potentially above Hulk's. I'll start out by displaying his piercing durability and considering the fact that one of Hulk's main forms of damage output will be piercing considering the fact that he has his ax in this fight:

Iron Man
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Here Iron Man takes repeated shots from F-22 raptors, and these things have incredibly powerful bullets. The bullets are 20 mm and have a muzzle velocity of over Mach 3, so no selling these is a highly impressive feat, and he has better:

Iron Man
Iron Man

In this instance Iron Man tanks a tank she straight to the face, and gets up seconds later completely unphased.

There's no caveats here, these are two of the most straightforward feats there are. That said, I do believe Hulk might have a feat that would allow the axe to cut Stark, that mainly being the following:

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Using a Leviathan's own metal, after taking it out completely he casually pierces the Leviathan armor. If you'll recall, this is something that even Stark's lasers couldn't do, as they'd run out of power before doing so. This is certainly insanely impressive, and given the durability of it's sibling weapon (I showed the hammer not breaking upon impact with a double-pound from Hulk), it wouldn't be illogical to assume it could at least dent Stark's armor.

Hulk's Fists and Hammer vs Stark's Blunt Force Durability

Moving on to blunt force durability:

Iron Man blitzes at Whiplash, who proceeds to completely overpower his blitz and send Tony reeling back hundreds of feet and clean through a large wooden arch.

Um, that's a hundred feet at worst. There is no possible way it exceeds a hundred feet... Either way, as you said, this is a lower end feat, so I'll just move on.

Here Iron Man tanks a cheapshot hammer throw from Thor, and gets up seconds later completely and utterly unphased.

I would say Stark himself was utterly unphased, but the suit's HUD display when it cut to Stark's face actually fizzled out for a bit. The suit was definitely affected by this blow.

And this is highly impressive considering just how powerful Thor's hammer throws are:

A single hammer throw from Thor sends Malekith flying hundreds of feet through two huge stone pillars, and into a car hard enough to ragdoll and completely deform it. So effectively no selling a hammer throw from Thor is highly impressive.

As I showed earlier, Thor was weakened throughout his exchange. I don't think the exact same scaling would apply, not to mention that clearly his blow against Malekith was far superior. Malekith broke two stone pillars and was sent flying, Stark broke a tree and immediately landed. It's an impressive showing to take a Mjolnir throw from Thor, but given the context, it's not what it's hyped up to be.

But he has more:

Whilst restarting the Helicarrier turbine Iron Man ends up getting hit over and over and over again by the multi-hundred-ton propellers. And these propellers were moving at outright insane speeds, they outpaced Tony (which is how they tagged him) and he was moving pretty damn fast:

As you can see when Tony was pushing the propellor it was moving insanely fast, making 5+ full rotations of the massive turbine every second. And again the propellors ended up outpacing Tony, so essentially Iron Man was repeatedly battered by multi-hundred ton propellors that were moving at sub to supersonic speeds. I can't see Hulk replicating that level of damage output easily.

Honestly, I can agree with you that this is not something Hulk can replicate casually. It's an insane feat, and those speeds are nothing to joke around with. Hulk might struggle to hurt Stark in this fight, but I do believe he can do it. I'll get into Hulk's striking feats in a bit, but it's worth noting that the Avengers script notes that Stark's armor is "heavily damaged, hardly keeping him up":

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So while it's a great durability, it's certainly nearing Stark's limit.

Using his powerful telekinetic abilities Ebony Maw uppercuts Iron Man hundreds upon hundreds of feet into the air using the ground beneath Tony's feet. Yet seconds later Tony reappears seemingly unharmed. A hit like this is certainly more powerful than Hulk's average blow, and Iron Man has endured attacks that Hulk simply could never replicate without a massive amount of momentum:

My only beef with this is that Maw's hit was most certainly not "hundreds upon hundreds" of feet into the air, that's maybe 200ft tops... Far from Hulk to surpass, let alone replicate.

Here Iron Man endures a hammer/ax throw from Cull Obsideon that send him flying a huge distance, clean through a building, and then several hundred feet after that into a tree. And the distance that Iron Man was hit is pretty insane:

You can pretty clearly see that Iron Man was many blocks and several thousand feet away from the park considering the fact that large buildings were clearly visible in the distance many many blocks away (and obviously there are no buildings in the park). So Tony was hit many thousands of feet, through a building, and he still had enough momentum to fly a couple hundred feet into the park after that. I can't see Hulk replicating that level of force with a punch, and Tony got up from that hit more or less unphased.

This one I can agree, basically fully with. Hulk isn't putting out that much damage casually. The hit is insane, and Stark tanking it is actually one insane feat. All of this said, it's time to get into what makes me believe Hulk can put down Stark eventually. First are foremost, we have the infamous Leviathan punch:

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I'm sure we've all seen this feat, so I'll only mention it briefly. Hulk, freshly transformed, managed to fully stop the momentum of a Chitauri Leviathan with a single punch. Even after being stopped, it still kept trying to move forward, and instead of moving the Hulk, it flipped over. Given that these things were casually going through skyscrapers, it's actually pretty insane.

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Having thrown a car into the monstrous Hulkbuster mark I suit, Hulk immediately follows up with a punch straight to the core of car, sending the incredibly heavily armored suit flying back a respectable distance. Note for the impact moves cars and trucks, as well as making the suit leave dents on the concrete floor.

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Here, the Hulk punches a damaged, but still heavy vibranium Ultron who goes flying so hard that we can't even see him land. While not equal to Cull's hit on Stark in the battle of New York during the events of Infinity War, it's certainly very close and repeated hits like this are going to be hard to shrug off, even for Stark.

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A feat perhaps more fitting to this situation, given Hulk has two weapons that in his hands will be devastating, Hulk using a half of a police car in each hand absolutely crushes Abomination deep into sheer asphalt, and we can (albeit barely) even see Hulk moving a bit downwards. That's how hard he's hitting Abomination.

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After entering a test of strength with Thor, Hulk punches the Thunder God clean through what appeared to be weapons crates, completely demolishing them and with Thor still having enough force to knock over more weapons crates. Not only this, but we see Thor wipe something from his face, something that the official script confirms to be blood. Of course, drawing blood from even an at-the-time weakened Thor is insane given that I don't recall Stark ever doing this, even with 400% power.

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Lastly, in an incredibly insane showing of striking, Hulk casually backhands a replacement part for the Hulkbuster Mark I suit, which not only explodes the front of the suit and sends parts of it flying in every direction, it also completely one-shots the satellite that was housing the Veronica armor. Given that both of these had to have, at the very least, similar components to the armor itself, this is not something I see Stark tanking casually. The part and the satellite may not have been as durable as the real thing because they had no inner shell (there's a regular Stark suit in this version of Hulkbuster, I believe this was in the MCU Visual Dictionary, but I'm not 100% certain), but it's still made out of the same components externally, making this feat extremely impressive.

Stark's Strength & Striking vs Hulk's Strength & Durability

There were, seemingly, two aspects to your strength section. I'll try and divide the feats, the way I believe you presented them, between a direct test of strength and striking vs durability. I'll begin with the latter.

Hulk's Durability vs Stark's Striking

In an impressive showing of strength, the Mark II tosses Tony in the Mark III clean through a solid concrete floor, and into another one, making a massive dent. And when Rhodey flies back up through the floor that he just hurled Tony through, we see that it is several feet thick.

Several feet thick is an insane overstatement, we only see a small part of it that's like a foot at most.

With an exceedingly casual kick, Iron Man sends his multi-ton Rolls Royce limousine flying well over a dozen feet away. And again this is still incredibly low end for Iron Man. Let's start getting into some more impressive territory.

With one massive kick, Iron Man smashes Thor clean through a tree so hard that the God of Thunder's hammer is knocked clean out of his hand whilst he's in ragdoll. And this is very impressive considering the fact that in the same movie it took this much force to do the same thing:

After falling 30,000 feet and slamming to the ground, creating a massive crater/dirt explosion, Thor drops his hammer. Really only when Thor is hit with insane amounts of force like this does he drop his weapon, and Iron Man made him do so with a kick. This is a highly impressive display of physicality.

You posted three feats for Stark that include damage output. To be quite frank, the first two are what you yourself called low end and I think we both know that neither will so much as tickle Hulk. Your second feat is far more up to par, but I still have quite a few gripes with it. For starters, you seem to be implying that the minimum amount of force needed for Thor to drop his hammer is a 30,000 foot fall (at least, that's the connotation I got from "it took this much force to do the same thing"). However, given that we don't know if a fall from a smaller, but still significant height (say, 20 or 25 thousand feet) would also make him drop his hammer.

Secondly, and far more importantly, that's not a fall from 30,000ft. I mean, the cage fell 30,000 feet, but Thor kicked right out of it. He applied an altogether new force, and while a being of his strength and physicality might create quite the amount of force, I don't think it's equivalent to the fall. For starters, you said that he created a "massive crater/dirt explosion", which is outright false if I'm being honest. It wasn't even larger than the one the cage made, which alone should indicate that Thor didn't tank a fall from 30,000 feet, especially since the cage hit what appears to be a rock formation, something that would be much harder to create a dust explosion on. But again the kicker of this feat is that Thor created a new force entirely separate from the fall, meaning the feat is actually far less impressive than you made it out to be.

However, even with that feat, Stark is going to find that he'll struggle immensely to hurt the Hulk. Let's take a look:

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During the battle with the Hulkbuster Mark I suit, Stark used the armor's incredible strength to grab the Hulk and dip him headfirst into concrete for several feet. Not only does it prove utterly useless, the Hulk proceeds to kick the suit right off of him. Already, this is something I see Stark replicating given he doesn't have the Hulkbuster's sheer physicality.

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Later on in the same fight, Hulk is running at a Stark in the air who hits him with a heavy kick, slams him full force with an elevator that breaks on impact with the Hulk, and finishes the combo with a momentum-adided punch that he winded up from all the way behind. What does it do? It knocks out a tooth from Hulk and prompts a swift apology from Stark, who immediately gets slammed through concrete. Again, I don't believe this is something that a regular Stark is replicating casually.

No Caption Provided

Next we're going to take a look at one of the few attacks in the entire MCU to ever daze the Hulk. This comes from the big guy's fight with the God of Thunder himself in Ragnarok. Having kicked Thor into the wall, he rushes at him, but Thor moves, gets the hammer of out the wall, and proceeds to absolutely wallop Hulk, who demolishes dozens of feet of alien metal that's kept him locked inside of the stadium for a while. He's dazed, certainly, but far from knocked out. The only thing this does is cause him to fix his helmet, pretend to fall for Thor's "sun's getting real low" and, then beat the ever-loving crap out of him.

Given the sheer distance of travelled, we can logically assume that the force with which Thor hit Hulk had to be insane, especially given how heavy the Hulk is relative to Thor.

No Caption Provided

Lastly, here we have Thor hitting Hulk with that giant-ass war hammer not one, not two, but three consecutive times. He utterly tanks the first three, and gets sent flying once more by the fourth, but this only serves to utterly piss him the hell off, and he goes on a new assault that sends the hammer flying right out of Thor's hands. Given the momentum we saw Thor hit Hulk with the first time (above this), even a third of that force in each of these hammer strikes is incredible to utterly tank, especially right after the initial attack.

Strength vs Strength: the Challenger vs the Challenged

But if you want something a little more quantifiable:

In this highly impressive feat from a tie-in comic Iron Man, with one fluid motion, grabs one tank and uses it like a baseball bat to bludgeon and destroy another tank. Keep in mind that the most common tank used currently, the M1 Abrams, weighs roughly 68 tons. If Tony can swing around 68 tons that casually he can certainly give Hulk some trouble in the strength department. And there's plenty of other material to support this notion:

During the famous forest fight Thor and Iron Man actually grapple midway through, and for several seconds it remains evenly matched. Granted Thor does begin to gradually overpower Tony and dent the forearms of his armor, but the fact of the matter is that Iron Man was able to grapple with Thor for roughly 5-8 seconds, and whilst towards that end he was getting overpowered, it still took effort from Thor, and Odinson never managed to fully overpower him. So while Thor is certainly above Mark VI Tony in strength, they are clearly comparable. This is especially impressive considering the fact that later on in the same movie Thor and Hulk are portrayed as peers in strength:

As you can clearly see Thor and Hulk are not far apart in terms of strength, Thor is able to block one of Hulk's hit with one arm, and then towards the end of the gif, using both arms, Thor manages to overpower Hulk's arm. So anyway just to conclude the scaling train Mark VI Iron Man is close to Thor in strength, and Thor is a near equal to Hulk (though Hulk is still slightly superior) in strength. Thus Tony isn't far off from Hulk in strength and certainly has enough physicality to contend with/hurt the Green Behemoth.

I'll try and keep this short given that you yourself admitted Stark is the clear inferior physically, but it might take a while. For starters, your logic for Stark being able to physically contend with Hulk almost literally boils down to: Stark is physically inferior to a guy who's physically inferior to the Hulk. Once again, however, I have to mention that Thor was weakened throughout the events of the Avengers movie, meaning that the gap between Thor and Stark is actually larger than originally thought.

To keep this train going, I wouldn't call getting your armor completely crushed comparable strength, and certainly not that first punch, in your gif, which Thor casually moves out of the way. To sum up this mini portion, the gap between Thor and Stark is wider than portrayed, meaning the gap between Hulk and Stark is also wider than originally let on.

However, I believe the gap between Thor and Hulk is also wider than you let on. He blocks one hit from Hulk, but he's struggling like hell and he immediately needs a second arm to halt Hulk's one arm. However, the biggest thing I have a gripe with is that Thor didn't actually overpower the Hulk. We can see in the gif that you provided that even after putting that second arm in, Thor is struggling like hell to hold off the Hulk. He does, however, then rise. That's the caveat though: he rises almost too fast, especially for a guy who was just struggling immensely to hold off said arm. I alternatively propose that Hulk lifted Thor himself, in order to punch him. Let's look here:

No Caption Provided

Right before Hulk punches Thor, we get this shot of Thor's head above Hulk's shoulder. If we compare this to other shots of the two standing together, such as the Revengers scene or the Leviathan punch, we can see that Thor is nowhere near that tall.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

So unless he, while massively struggling with both arms to stop Hulk's one arm managed to find the strength to straight up jump before being punched by the Hulk, I don't believe Thor overpowered Hulk at all. Thus, the gap between this weaker Thor and Hulk is also larger than let on.

Your original scaling looked something like Hulk > A1 Thor > Stark. Given all the input I've given, I believe it looks something more like Hulk >> A1 Thor >> Stark. However, given that we know Thor was weakened against Stark, I can throw this even more off balance by proving that Hulk is superior to a healthy Thor, which is what I'll now do.

No Caption Provided

During their fight in Thor: Ragnarok, wherein Thor was beating Hulk to the ground repeatedly, we see a moment of anger which allows him to completely and utterly stop Thor's hammer strike and casually move it out of the way with a single arm. Note that in this instance Thor had gravity (going down) and momentum (a nice jump) on his side, yet this didn't stop Hulk from casually stopping him. This brings me to my next point, which is that even if Stark can contend with Hulk for a while (and I highly doubt that), it's not going to be for long. As the battle rages on, Hulk will get madder. This is something that he's shown repeatedly, even against Stark:

No Caption Provided

Doubling as a durability feat, where Hulk gets slammed into the ground by the Hulkbuster, he also takes an insane amount of repeated punches from the huge suit. Not only does he effectively tank these, he proceeds to get angry enough to completely stop the hand from even budging an inch, which is insanely impressive considering the speeds at which it was moving as well as the fact that each punch was powerful enough to hit Hulk in the head and move his entire body.

No Caption Provided

He also showcased this against Abomination, a being originally stronger than him who he ended up completely overpowering, dazing with a mere headbutt, and throwing into a wall. This leads me to believe that even if I submit that Stark can contend with the Hulk physically - and I don't believe he can, based on feats presented - that said contention will not last long.

Conclusion

While it's true that the Hulk is a one-trick pony, I believe that his one trick will be more than enough to stop Stark. His firepower isn't going to bother Hulk that much, given his feats of already no-selling repulsors and being able to tank sustained Chitauri fire, and he's physically going to mess the crap out of the Hulk. While Stark possesses a speed and mobility edge, one that you yourself showed he abuses with bricks, you failed to mention that he got caught repeatedly and that when abusing said edge against a brick, that he utterly failed to damage Cull in any way. He got tagged repeatedly by a guy basically inferior to Hulk in every way aside from weaponry, and had to be saved from him not once, but twice. What happens if Hulk smacks Stark out of the sky with a hammer strike? He might not live to tell the tale.

This fight will take too long if Tony stays in the sky, and his mobility can only help so much when Hulk can basically no-sell everything that Stark sends his way. That only leaves the CQC option, an option that'll bring Stark out of the sky and into the clutches of the Hulk. This will spell disaster, because once Hulk catches Stark, he's not letting go. He can't contend physically and his durability will get eventually taxed, meanwhile Hulk can take absolutely everything that Stark can dish out.

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#40 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (11900 posts) - - Show Bio
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#41 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3920 posts) - - Show Bio

Just finished reading through it.

Great post.

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#43 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by TonyStark6999 (2581 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#45 Edited by APEX_pretador (20961 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackpantherisb:

The hydra chitauri fire Vs machine gun bullet gif.

.

.

.

Don't worry I am just messing with you. Just seeing this highlighted and used is good.

Just tag after every post

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#46 Edited by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio
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#47 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

Round Two

“Iron Man. That’s kind of catchy. It’s got a nice ring to it. I mean it’s not technically accurate. The suit’s a gold titanium alloy, but it’s kind of provocative, the imagery anyway.”
“Iron Man. That’s kind of catchy. It’s got a nice ring to it. I mean it’s not technically accurate. The suit’s a gold titanium alloy, but it’s kind of provocative, the imagery anyway.”

Strength/Striking

I'll try and keep this short given that you yourself admitted Stark is the clear inferior physically, but it might take a while. For starters, your logic for Stark being able to physically contend with Hulk almost literally boils down to: Stark is physically inferior to a guy who's physically inferior to the Hulk. Once again, however, I have to mention that Thor was weakened throughout the events of the Avengersmovie, meaning that the gap between Thor and Stark is actually larger than originally thought.

Honestly I really don't think that Thor was weakened throughout the Avengers, let's look at the evidence you provided:

Odin mentioned in a Dark World tie-in comic that using Dark Energy to send Thor to Earth would have a "cost" to both of them, that there are risks involved (link). In fact, the tie in's final page has him looking like this, right before the confrontation with Stark (from the very next issue). This will be cited again in another interesting scaling bit of yours.

So pretty much Odin says that there will be costs, which is pretty vague and certainly doesn't indicate that Thor would be weakened for several days after using the Dark Energy. So then we see that clearly the Dark Energy does take a toll on Thor when he's using it:

Marvel's Thor: The Dark World Prelude #1 - Part 1 of 2
Marvel's Thor: The Dark World Prelude #1 - Part 1 of 2

As you can clearly see the Dark Energy is taking it's toll on Thor as he uses it to fly to Earth, and as you already showed this energy KOed him, so Thor was unconscious when he gets to Earth. Sif and Heimdell then wonder if he's still alive, and he wakes up again:

Marvel's Thor: The Dark World Prelude #2 - Part 2 of 2
Marvel's Thor: The Dark World Prelude #2 - Part 2 of 2

He then starts flying around like nothing is wrong. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Thor was weakened by the Dark Energy. It took an obvious toll, it briefly KOed him. However after he recovers and wakes up I don't know why you assume that he was weakened throughout the rest of the Avengers. There is no mention to it in the rest of the comic or the movie, and there's simply no evidence to support it. Here is the way I see it: Odin says there will be a cost, the energy KOs Thor, that is the obvious cost, Thor then wakes up and is fine. Being KOed by energy doesn't mean that you will be indefinitely weakened, unless you're going to argue that Thor was weakened throughout Ragnarok as well since he was KOed by the taser in the beginning of the film.

To keep this train going, I wouldn't call getting your armor completely crushed comparable strength, and certainly not that first punch, in your gif, which Thor casually moves out of the way.

I mean Tony was getting overpowered at the end, and yet his suit started to get crushed, but he still did match a fully poweredThor in a grapple for over five seconds, and was never actually completely overpowered, so I would say strength was pretty comparable.

However, I believe the gap between Thor and Hulk is also wider than you let on. He blocks one hit from Hulk, but he's struggling like hell and he immediately needs a second arm to halt Hulk's one arm. However, the biggest thing I have a gripe with is that Thor didn't actually overpower the Hulk. We can see in the gif that you provided that even after putting that second arm in, Thor is struggling like hell to hold off the Hulk. He does, however, then rise. That's the caveat though: he rises almost too fast, especially for a guy who was just struggling immensely to hold off said arm. I alternatively propose that Hulk lifted Thor himself, in order to punch him. Let's look here:

Well the reason that Thor was struggling more early on was that Hulk punched Thor, so it would've been much harder to block initially since it had Hulk's strength as well as a decent amount of momentum behind it and Thor actually wasn't struggling that much at all after he added his second arm, he just tried to talk to Hulk, and then he overpowered Banner once he stopped trying to talk him down.

Right before Hulk punches Thor, we get this shot of Thor's head above Hulk's shoulder. If we compare this to other shots of the two standing together, such as the Revengers scene or the Leviathan punch, we can see that Thor is nowhere near that tall.

Ehhh, in the shot from the Avengers Thor actually looks pretty damn close, especially when you consider the fact that it was really Thor's arms that he was using to grapple with Banner that were at a comparable height to Hulk's shoulders. Thor's head was still solidly below Hulk's shoulders.

So unless he, while massively struggling with both arms to stop Hulk's one arm managed to find the strength to straight up jump before being punched by the Hulk, I don't believe Thor overpowered Hulk at all. Thus, the gap between this weaker Thor and Hulk is also larger than let on.

Honestly I think it's fairly clear that Thor just stood up, he was still half-a-foot to a-foot below Hulk's shoulder, which is perfectly consistent with the image you showed up them standing side-by-side in Avengers. So I stand by my previous argument.

Your original scaling looked something like Hulk > A1 Thor > Stark. Given all the input I've given, I believe it looks something more like Hulk >> A1 Thor >> Stark. However, given that we know Thor was weakened against Stark, I can throw this even more off balance by proving that Hulk is superior to a healthy Thor, which is what I'll now do.

Not really though, and I've already discussed the fact that Thor was perfectly healthy in the Avengers. But Tony's suits actually have a number of high impressive, and quantifiable strength feats, that suggest that, by feats, Stark can actually give Hulk a run for his money in strength:

Spider-Man Homecoming
Spider-Man Homecoming

After a Staten Island Ferry gets blown half during a fight Iron-Man swoops in and saves the day and catches half of the Feery, and begins pushing it back together. Now keep in mind that these Ferries are enormously heavy, one of them weighs about 3,335 tons:

The "Barberi class" consists of MV Andrew J. Barberi and MV Samuel I. Newhouse, which were built in 1981 and 1982, respectively.[138] Each boat has a crew of 15, can carry 6,000 passengers but no cars, is 310 feet (94 m) long and 69 feet 10 inches (21.29 m) wide, with a draft of 13 feet 6 inches (4.11 m), of 3,335 gross tons, with a service speed of 16 knots (30 km/h), and engines capable of 8,000 horsepower (6.0 MW).[229][171][230] These ships were built at the Equitable Shipyard in New Orleans, at a cost of $16.5 million each. At the time of construction, the ships' capacity was the largest of any licensed ferry in the world.[228]

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staten_Island_Ferry#Current

This means that even lifting/pushing half of that is still a 1,500+ ton feat, and Tony actually has multiple multi-thousand ton strength feats:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Here Iron Man, after getting the signal from Strange slams a massive building-sized spaceship down on Thanos. Keep in mind that Iron Man needed to have been holding that spaceship for a long period of time, supporting it's weight, until Strange gave him the signal. This is obviously a multi-thousand ton ship, so being able to support it's weight and ultimately slam it down on Thanos. Strength like this should certainly allow Iron Man to keep up with Hulk.

During their fight in Thor: Ragnarok, wherein Thor was beating Hulk to the ground repeatedly, we see a moment of anger which allows him to completely and utterly stop Thor's hammer strike and casually move it out of the way with a single arm. Note that in this instance Thor had gravity (going down) and momentum (a nice jump) on his side, yet this didn't stop Hulk from casually stopping him.

Yeah, this is highly impressive, though I do believe that after some of Iron Man's more recent strength feats, such as the Ferry feat and the ship feat against Thanos, that Tony can hold his own solidly with the Hulk in the strength department.

This brings me to my next point, which is that even if Stark can contend with Hulk for a while (and I highly doubt that), it's not going to be for long. As the battle rages on, Hulk will get madder. This is something that he's shown repeatedly, even against Stark:

This is true, and is probably Hulk's biggest asset in the fight. I would argue that Tony is roughly equal to base Hulk in strength, though I agree that Iron Man will eventually be outclassed due to Hulk's rage increasing his strength.

Doubling as a durability feat, where Hulk gets slammed into the ground by the Hulkbuster, he also takes an insane amount of repeated punches from the huge suit. Not only does he effectively tank these, he proceeds to get angry enough to completely stop the hand from even budging an inch, which is insanely impressive considering the speeds at which it was moving as well as the fact that each punch was powerful enough to hit Hulk in the head and move his entire body.

I don't really see how this shows that Hulk got progressively stronger throughout the fight as he got madder, he and Tony were portrayed as pretty much dead equals in strength throughout the fight, so this doesn't really suggest an increase in strength due to anger. And it's solidly impressive as a strength feat, but honestly Tony in his Homecoming suit or IW suit is stronger than the Hulkbuster by feats.

He also showcased this against Abomination, a being originally stronger than him who he ended up completely overpowering, dazing with a mere headbutt, and throwing into a wall. This leads me to believe that even if I submit that Stark can contend with the Hulk physically - and I don't believe he can, based on feats presented - that said contention will not last long.

Yeah, this is a legit showing of Hulk's strength progression, though I contest that based on feats Tony can undoubtedly hang with Hulk in strength for a decent portion of the fight, especially since Hulk would've been at an all time high in terms of anger, since the love of his life's life was in serious danger.

Several feet thick is an insane overstatement, we only see a small part of it that's like a foot at most.

Honestly it really isn't an overstatement, just based on what we can see I would say that it's about a foot-and-a-half or two feet, and that clearly is only part of the total thickness of the ceiling, though honestly this feat isn't really worth debating over since we know that Hulk isn't going to be phased by something like this.

For starters, you seem to be implying that the minimum amount of force needed for Thor to drop his hammer is a 30,000 foot fall (at least, that's the connotation I got from "it took this much force to do the same thing"). However, given that we don't know if a fall from a smaller, but still significant height (say, 20 or 25 thousand feet) would also make him drop his hammer.

Yeah, I mean falling 20 or 25 thousands feet would pack the same amount of force as falling 30,000 feet since in all three scenarios Thor would've reacher terminal velocity. Really Thor would reach terminal velocity even if he only fell from like 5000 feet up. All of the impacts would have roughly the same amount of force.

Secondly, and far more importantly, that's not a fall from 30,000ft. I mean, the cage fell 30,000 feet, but Thor kicked right out of it. He applied an altogether new force, and while a being of his strength and physicality might create quite the amount of force, I don't think it's equivalent to the fall. For starters, you said that he created a "massive crater/dirt explosion", which is outright false if I'm being honest. It wasn't even larger than the one the cage made, which alone should indicate that Thor didn't tank a fall from 30,000 feet, especially since the cage hit what appears to be a rock formation, something that would be much harder to create a dust explosion on. But again the kicker of this feat is that Thor created a new force entirely separate from the fall, meaning the feat is actually far less impressive than you made it out to be.

Ehhh, fair enough, he probably did create a new force, though I think we can still agree that the new force was very potent, considering the fact that Thor's impact created a very large crater. Also obviously Thor would make a smaller explosion than the cage, he has significantly less mass, so the idea that he landed with less force because of the size of the explosions is a bit of a moot point. I think we can still agree that it's an impressive striking feat from Tony.

During the battle with the Hulkbuster Mark I suit, Stark used the armor's incredible strength to grab the Hulk and dip him headfirst into concrete for several feet. Not only does it prove utterly useless, the Hulk proceeds to kick the suit right off of him. Already, this is something I see Stark replicating given he doesn't have the Hulkbuster's sheer physicality.

You really don't think that Tony in his regular armor has the physicality to smash Hulk through some concrete? Even in my first post I showed Tony using a tank a literal baseball bat, and in this post I've shown him achieving multiple multi-thousand ton feats. I would argue that Iron Man has the physicality to effortlessly replicate this feats.

Later on in the same fight, Hulk is running at a Stark in the air who hits him with a heavy kick, slams him full force with an elevator that breaks on impact with the Hulk, and finishes the combo with a momentum-adided punch that he winded up from all the way behind. What does it do? It knocks out a tooth from Hulk and prompts a swift apology from Stark, who immediately gets slammed through concrete. Again, I don't believe this is something that a regular Stark is replicating casually.

Ehh, that elevator really didn't look like it was over two tons, so I would argue that Tony could easily replicate that, even just based off the feats I displayed in my opener. And actually current IW Iron Man should have striking power that is equal, or even superior, to the Hulkbuster's.

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With a casual punch Tony staggers Cull Obsidian, and he actually staggered him fairly heavily, Iron Man had time to fully stand up, and set up a complex network of energy projectors, all before Cull could recover from the punch. So IW Iron Man was able to stagger Cull Obsidian fairly heavily with a single punch. And this is what happened when Cull and the Hulkbuster came to blows:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Here the Hulkbuster hits Cull with a devastating combo, a punch using a large amount of momentum (similar to the punch that knocked Hulk's tooth out) followed up by a spinning backhand, and concluded by a massive uppercut, yet Cull was un-phased by all over this, and recovered instantly, casually catching the Hulkbuster's punch. Overall I would say that Tony's single punch had a greater effect on Cull than the Hulkbuster's entire combo. So if the Hulkbuster can knock Hulk's teeth out, so can Tony.

Next we're going to take a look at one of the few attacks in the entire MCU to ever daze the Hulk. This comes from the big guy's fight with the God of Thunder himself in Ragnarok. Having kicked Thor into the wall, he rushes at him, but Thor moves, gets the hammer of out the wall, and proceeds to absolutely wallop Hulk, who demolishes dozens of feet of alien metal that's kept him locked inside of the stadium for a while. He's dazed, certainly, but far from knocked out. The only thing this does is cause him to fix his helmet, pretend to fall for Thor's "sun's getting real low" and, then beat the ever-loving crap out of him.

Hulk was extremely dazed by this hit though, he got hit at the 51 second mark in this clip, and he didn't get back up until the 1:08 mark, so he was down for about 17 full seconds, and even once he got back up he was still very groggy. If Thor had stayed on the attack after this instead of trying to talk Hulk down he could've easily KOed Banner with only one or two strikes based on how heavily dazed Hulk was. It's an impressive showing of durability, but Hulk certainly can't tank attacks of this caliber.

-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcLmyi46VYA(this is the video I was referencing in my paragraph above.)

Lastly, here we have Thor hitting Hulk with that giant-ass war hammer not one, not two, but three consecutive times. He utterly tanks the first three, and gets sent flying once more by the fourth, but this only serves to utterly piss him the hell off, and he goes on a new assault that sends the hammer flying right out of Thor's hands. Given the momentum we saw Thor hit Hulk with the first time (above this), even a third of that force in each of these hammer strikes is incredible to utterly tank, especially right after the initial attack.

I doubt that the force of these hammer blows was even 1/3 the strength of Thor's original considering the fact that for the first blow Thor used his entire body to hit the Hulk, including his full legs, whereas for these three blows he was really only using his upper body, which is much weaker than the lower body. Tanking these hits is decently impressive, but Iron Man's striking outmatches this by a good margin.

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With a devastating combo Tony actually manages to draw blood from Thanos. Granted Thanos had tanked other attacks in the past from Tony and others during this battle, but it's clear that this is the hardest Thanos had been hit in the entire movie, I think we can agree on that. And keep in mind this is what happened when Hulk tried to damage Thanos:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Avengers: Infinity War

Here Hulk sucker-punches Thanos and then proceeds to hit the Mad Titan several times when he's down, using his intense element of surprise. Thanos completely no sells these attacks, and goes on to easily overpower Hulk, without a scratch on him. This pretty clearly indicates that Iron Man's striking power>Hulk's. And Thanos actually tanked a number of powerful attacks throughout this fight without being cut or bleeding, or really showing any signs of damage:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Avengers: Infinity War

One: The Mad Titan has a building sized spaceship slammed on his head at insane speeds, and he more or less no sells it, coming out from the attack more pissed off than injured. Two: Thanos is peppered by missiles that create a massive building level+ explosion, and once again he's more annoyed than damaged.

If Iron Man can put the hurt on, and even draw blood from Thanos (who is definitely more durable than Hulk) with his blows then not only does Tony strike harder than the Hulk, but he can also do very heavy damage to Banner with his blows.

Durability

Using a Leviathan's own metal, after taking it out completely he casually pierces the Leviathan armor. If you'll recall, this is something that even Stark's lasers couldn't do, as they'd run out of power before doing so. This is certainly insanely impressive, and given the durability of it's sibling weapon (I showed the hammer not breaking upon impact with a double-pound from Hulk), it wouldn't be illogical to assume it could at least dent Stark's armor.

I mean here's the thing though, the Leviathan armor really didn't have any piercing resistance feats, the laser only gives off heat energy, which is obviously completely different from piercing energy. Also Thor was actually able to destroy the axe using the hammer with a single swing:

Thor: Ragnarok
Thor: Ragnarok

And I haven't even gotten to Stark's best piercing feat, though I honestly still doubt that the axe could even dent Tony even using the feats that I displayed in my opener. Anyway here's Iron Man's most impressive piercing resistance feat by far:

Loading Video...

-Avengers: Infinity War

Using the reality stone Thanos transmutes the remains of the ship Tony hit him with into bats, he then sends thousands of these bats after Stark. The bats easily flay through building sized metal constructs, yet Iron Man comes out from this without a scratch. I don't think Hulk can even come close to this level of piercing output with his axe.

Um, that's a hundred feet at worst. There is no possible way it exceeds a hundred feet... Either way, as you said, this is a lower end feat, so I'll just move on.

Eh, overall I'd wager that it's in the 150 foot range, but I probably should not have said hundreds. More like one-hundred+. Either way we can just drop this since we both agree that it's not particularly relevant.

I would say Stark himself was utterly unphased, but the suit's HUD display when it cut to Stark's face actually fizzled out for a bit. The suit was definitely affected by this blow.

I mean the damage to the suit was clearly very very minimal, the screen flickered very very briefly, but apart from that there was nothing to indicate that the hammer throw did much of anything. Stark himself was completely fine, there was no dent in the armor, and if something is actually wrong the AI will always let Tony know. So while the suit may have been slightly affected, it clearly didn't sustain any damage.

As I showed earlier, Thor was weakened throughout his exchange. I don't think the exact same scaling would apply, not to mention that clearly his blow against Malekith was far superior. Malekith broke two stone pillars and was sent flying, Stark broke a tree and immediately landed. It's an impressive showing to take a Mjolnir throw from Thor, but given the context, it's not what it's hyped up to be.

I already elaborated on the fact that Thor was not, in fact, weakened. And I really don't think that environmental factors determine the power of a blow. For example Tony drew blood from Thanos with a punch that didn't rag doll the Mad Titan or produce a shockwave, yet visually much more impressive things, such as being crushed by building-sized ships and being bombarded by missiles had significantly less of an effect on Thanos. I really don't think that I missed any context whatsoever.

Honestly, I can agree with you that this is not something Hulk can replicate casually. It's an insane feat, and those speeds are nothing to joke around with. Hulk might struggle to hurt Stark in this fight, but I do believe he can do it. I'll get into Hulk's striking feats in a bit, but it's worth noting that the Avengers script notes that Stark's armor is "heavily damaged, hardly keeping him up": So while it's a great durability, it's certainly nearing Stark's limit.

This is true, hundreds of tons being spun and sub/supersonic speeds into Iron Man did take it's toll, but the fact of the matter is that he could still fly/fight, its not like he was taken out. Also he was hit by this attack many dozens of times, and I honestly don't think that Hulk can hit as hard as even a single one of those propellor blows (I mean just think about how hard those propellors would be hitting) so Iron Man should be able to take pretty huge beating from Hulk before reaching that state. And current Tony actually has a decent healing factor that should allow him to recover from injuries like that fairly easily:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Using his insane strength Thanos rips Iron Man's helmet off, completely shattering it (something Hulk can't do since Thanos casually overpowered him) Tony then instantly regenerates a new helmet before the Mad Titan can hit him in his unprotected face. A healing factor like this should allow Iron Man to regenerate from injuries like the ones he sustained from going through the propellors immediately.

My only beef with this is that Maw's hit was most certainly not "hundreds upon hundreds" of feet into the air, that's maybe 200ft tops... Far from Hulk to surpass, let alone replicate.

That's still multiple hundreds of feet that Iron Man flew, and it definitely could've been more than 200 feet. Also I wasn't saying that Hulk couldn't replicate the Maw feet, I was refereeing to the following feat, which is the Cull Obsidian hammer throw.

This one I can agree, basically fully with. Hulk isn't putting out that much damage casually. The hit is insane, and Stark tanking it is actually one insane feat. All of this said, it's time to get into what makes me believe Hulk can put down Stark eventually. First are foremost, we have the infamous Leviathan punch: I'm sure we've all seen this feat, so I'll only mention it briefly. Hulk, freshly transformed, managed to fully stop the momentum of a Chitauri Leviathan with a single punch. Even after being stopped, it still kept trying to move forward, and instead of moving the Hulk, it flipped over. Given that these things were casually going through skyscrapers, it's actually pretty insane.

Yep, this feat is ridiculous, and is probably Hulk's best striking feat to date, my one gripe with it is that Hulk didn't stop all of the momentum of the leviathan with one punch, he slowed it down massively and did heavy damage, sure, but he stopped it by using his lifting strength to push against the leviathan for multiple seconds. Obviously Hulk isn't going to punch Tony and then continue to apply pressure to him using his lifting strength. So I wouldn't say that Hulk stopped the leviathan with just one punch, he slowed it with a punch and then used his lifting strength to fully reduce it's momentum. Though I would still say that it's a small building level display of striking power, but fortunately Stark, even in his Mark III, has withstood similar levels of force:

Iron Man
Iron Man

After being shot out of the air by a tank Iron Man plunges into the ground at ridiculous speeds, and his landing generates a massive small building sized+ explosion, and makes an enormous crater. And yet Stark emerges with no legitimate damage, just pissed as all hell. I would argue that this impact was just as powerful as the leviathan punch, and it's not even Tony's best.

Having thrown a car into the monstrous Hulkbuster mark I suit, Hulk immediately follows up with a punch straight to the core of car, sending the incredibly heavily armored suit flying back a respectable distance. Note for the impact moves cars and trucks, as well as making the suit leave dents on the concrete floor.

This is a perfectly solid feat, but nothing too impressive, the Hulkbuster itself probably weighs a ton or two, and plowing it through those cars and the concrete is probably a 20 ton feat, but Iron Man can effectively no sell this level of force:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

In this instance Thanos absorbs the full force of a building level+ explosion and redirects it in a devastating blast right back into Tony. This blast forces Iron Man hundreds of feet back and clean through a building sized tower of raw metal, this force proceeds to then cut the tower in half, with Stark flying dozens of meters into another metal tower, destroying it as well. Yet Iron Man tanked it with little damage. This is dozens of times more impressive than the Hulkbuster punch that you displayed above.

Here, the Hulk punches a damaged, but still heavy vibranium Ultron who goes flying so hard that we can't even see him land. While not equal to Cull's hit on Stark in the battle of New York during the events of Infinity War, it's certainly very close and repeated hits like this are going to be hard to shrug off, even for Stark.

It's really not very close to the Cull hit though, I mean Ultron is definitely heavier than Tony, but we don't know how far he flew, and based on the evidence I would say it would only be a couple hundred feet. Meanwhile Iron Man went flying thousands of feet and then clean through a large building, and even after all of that he still flew 100+ feet and slammed into a tree. The Ultron feat is impressive, but it's not particularly close to the Cull feat. And Stark was completely fine after enduring that hit.

A feat perhaps more fitting to this situation, given Hulk has two weapons that in his hands will be devastating, Hulk using a half of a police car in each hand absolutely crushes Abomination deep into sheer asphalt, and we can (albeit barely) even see Hulk moving a bit downwards. That's how hard he's hitting Abomination.

Come on, crushing someone 5 feet into asphalt? That's nothing next to the feats I displayed. Not to mention the fact that Hulk didn't to this with one punch, but several (in the GIF Hulk hit Abomb a total of 8 times.) This level of striking power won't even be able to affect Iron Man, and I don't know why you'd include such a low end feat when trying to prove that Hulk can damage Iron Man.

After entering a test of strength with Thor, Hulk punches the Thunder God clean through what appeared to be weapons crates, completely demolishing them and with Thor still having enough force to knock over more weapons crates. Not only this, but we see Thor wipe something from his face, something that the official script confirms to be blood. Of course, drawing blood from even an at-the-time weakened Thor is insane given that I don't recall Stark ever doing this, even with 400% power.

Now this is more like it, I already elaborated on how Thor wasn't weakened in this instance, which only makes the feat even more impressive. And it certainly proves that Hulk hits harder than a 400% charged Avengers Iron Man. But I've got even better durability feats in my arsenal:

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-Avengers: Infinity War

Here Iron Man gets pummeled by Thanos, who explicitly stated later on in the fight that he was trying to kill Tony. Now in this GIF alone we see Thanos land 10 physical blows on Iron Man, two of which were amped by the power gem, and Thanos also blasted Stark with the power gem for around 3-5 seconds straight. Even after all of this Iron Man was still fighting (grated his armor had taken heavy damage). Keep in mind that this was after Iron Man had been attacked by the bats, had been blasted by the building busting attack, had taken multiple punches from Thanos prior to this, and withstood the meteor (which I'll get into later). So this was a far from fresh Iron Man. Now lets look at what happens when Thanos pummels Hulk:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With twelve regular blows Thanos KOs the Hulk (after the knee to the face Hulk was unconscious). Granted Hulk was hit a couple more times by Thanos, but the fact of the matter is that Hulk was completely fresh at this point, and Thanos used the power gem to amp several of his blows against Iron Man, and even used an energy blast with the power gem. Meanwhile he didn't use any of the gems against Hulk. Also pretty much every blow Thanos landed against Tony was a massive haymaker that he got a large swing for, meanwhile most of the blows that he landed on Hulk were jabs that didn't have the same windup or momentum that the blows Thanos landed on Iron Man had. Anyway all of this is to say that current Iron Man's durability>Hulk's, who I think we can agree has excellent durability. All of this is to say that I'm fairly confident that Iron Man can tank blows that draw minute amounts of blood from Thor.

Lastly, in an incredibly insane showing of striking, Hulk casually backhands a replacement part for the Hulkbuster Mark I suit, which not only explodes the front of the suit and sends parts of it flying in every direction, it also completely one-shots the satellite that was housing the Veronica armor. Given that both of these had to have, at the very least, similar components to the armor itself, this is not something I see Stark tanking casually. The part and the satellite may not have been as durable as the real thing because they had no inner shell (there's a regular Stark suit in this version of Hulkbuster, I believe this was in the MCU Visual Dictionary, but I'm not 100% certain), but it's still made out of the same components externally, making this feat extremely impressive.

This is an excellent feat, there's no denying that, but you seem to be implying that the replacement parts/the satellite were comparable to the Hulkbuster armor in durability, which is simply completely untrue.

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Avengers: Age of Ultron

As you can see, on many separate occasions the Hulkbuster armor endures massive direct hits from the Hulk that have plenty of windup/momentum (obviously there are more examples, but these are just the standouts) and endured them without any notable or heavy damage. Yet I'm expected to believe that a casual backhand from the Hulk is enough to completely obliterate something comparable to the Hulkbuster in durability? No way. That replacement clearly wasn't even close to the Hulkbuster in durability based on the actual facts and showings.

However, all of this isn't to suggest the the feat isn't a phenomenal display of striking power. Sending something that heavy that far that fast and into something else with enough face to completely destroy it, the feat is excellent, especially when you consider how casually Hulk performed it. However I'm still positive that Tony can tank blows of this caliber (and greater) with minimal damage.

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

In this instance, after Thanos break apart a nearby moon and throws it at the Avengers, Iron man is hit dead on by a massive, small building sized meteor that pummels him into the ground, and yet he endures this crash and emerges from it without a scratch. Keep in mind that this is roughly the size of the 1,000 ton boulder:

No Caption Provided

-http://gothamist.com/2018/05/10/photos_laguardia_airports_giant_rock.php#photo-4

As you can see the rock that Iron Man was hit by was clearly much larger than this, and so it undoubtedly had a weight greater than that 1,000 tons, in fact it probably exceeds 2,000 as well. To make this feat even more impressive we know for a fact that the meteor was moving at high speeds since it caught fire. When objects catch fire due to speed it's because they are literally setting ablaze the atmosphere around them which causes them to burn:

"Put simply, the answer is friction. When traveling through the vacuum of space, where there is no atmosphere to slow movement in any way, objects can get up to speeds that are simply impossible on Earth — partly because of drag, and partly because going that fast makes you go on fire. In space, meteors are free to maintain the velocity of whatever cataclysmic event set them moving in the first place. Most meteors enter the atmosphere at between 10 and 70 kilometers per second, and the friction that results when their surfaces whip past flammable atmospheric gasses causes those gasses to ignite. In addition, their extreme velocities cause the gasses in front of them to compress very quickly, and compressing a gas increases its temperature.

Space craft can actually take advantage of this atmospheric compression through something called blunt body design. The principle is simple: by making a high-drag design that will push against as much air as possible, high-velocity objects create a cushion in front of them made of air that cannot get out of the way quickly enough. This shock-wave helps to keep the flaming atmospheric gasses at a distance from the vehicle; it works so well that the amount of heat experienced by a lander is directly and inversely proportional to the amount of drag it creates against the air. This is why the reentry pods of old seem to enter backwards, creating as much drag as possible rather than going in pointy-end first (see header image.)"

-https://www.geek.com/news/geek-answers-why-do-objects-burn-up-when-entering-the-atmosphere-1563635/

So now the question is just how fast does rock have to move to ignite the atmosphere and catch fire? Short answer: pretty damn fast, here's the long answer:

"Bodies are typically cremated at around 1,500°C and aircraft research from NASA reveals that you’d need to be running at Mach 5 (6,000km/h) to reach that temperature."

-https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/the-thought-experiment-how-fast-would-i-have-to-run-to-catch-fire/

As clearly stated above it would take speeds of around Mach 5 to reach 1,500 degrees Celsius, and keep in mind that an average sediment, such as sandstone (which is one of the most common types of rocks), has a boiling point of roughly 1,500 degrees Celsius:

No Caption Provided

-https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-points-solids-d_148.html

Granted all of this is approximate, and really I'm just estimating, but its fairly clear that to catch fire that meteor would've had to have been moving at many times the speed of sound, that much I think we can agree on.

So to wrap this section up I'll leave you with this: Iron Man tanked a multi-thousand ton meteor slamming into him at many times the speed of sound, and he emerged without a scratch ready to fight. Hulk is really going to struggle to put Stark down considering the fact that he posses this level of durability.

Firepower

This first feat everyone should be familiar with. It comes from the titular Thor vs Hulk fight from Thor: Ragnarok and is actually pretty insane. Here we see a newly powered up Thor with unlocked power blast Hulk with an absolutely insane amount of electricity. Not only is the force behind the punch itself great - moving Hulk that far with a single punch despite merely budging him earlier - but we see Thor's electricity course throughout Hulk's body even after Thor put his hand down. I'm not saying this'll allow him to nosell Iron Man's arsenal since Thor's punches are kind of unquantifiable, but his cloak alone is enough to mow down undead Asgardians. I'd imagine his direct punches whose aftershock left lightning coursing through Hulk's body are insane. Getting back up from this should allow him to at least tank repulsors with minor discomfort.

Really? You're using the lightning cloak as an impressive showing of energy durability? It's best feat is taking out undead Asgardians, who are no more durable than humans, they got completely obliterated by Skurge and his AK-47's:

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Thor: Ragnarok

One: With only a few rounds Skurge blasted a soldier clean to pieces, splitting him in half and knocking off his limbs. Two: With a couple he blasts clean through on of their torsos splitting him clean in half, totally shattering the body parts the bullets hit.

Clearly the Asgardian undead are no more durable than regular humans, and he wasn't even disintegrating them, at best breaking a couple of them into smaller pieces, but none of them were reduced to ash by any means, this is what they looked like after Thor's lightning cloak hit them:

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Thor: Ragnarok

One: With a huge AOE blast Thor takes out a bunch of Hela's soldiers, leaving all of them totally in tact, with pretty much no cosmetic damage. Two: After Thor dishes out a large lightning cloak blast he knocks down two soldiers, both of them remain totally intact, and the one in the bottom left actually keeps moving, and even starts to get up. Three: After being his by a lightning cloak blast, and whilst still buzzing with Thor's lightning it still seems to take minimal damage. Four: After a large lightning cloak blast Thor launches four of them away, and they all keep their shape, and take no substantial. Five: Thor smashes a soldier directly with a lightning blade, and while he does have some burns of him he isn't cut in half, and takes no heavy dents certainly no disintegration. Six: Lightning cloak hits a soldier directly, only knocking him down. Again no real damage done, clearly no disintegration or even crumbling. Seven: This is the same as above.

Thor's lightning is only impressive when he channels it into direct bolts, to be frank the cloak is fairly pathetic. Iron Man's repulsors are massively more powerful than Thor's lightning cloak:

Iron Man Wal-Mart Custom Comic #1 - Security Measures
Iron Man Wal-Mart Custom Comic #1 - Security Measures

With a blast of his Unibeam from his prototypeIron Man armor Stark destroys one of shields satellites, and in doing so generates a building level explosion. Iron Man had blast power wayyyyy above Thor's lightning cloak before he even perfected his first armor.

Now yes, Hulk's a little groggy, but that's more of a feat for Thor than an anti-feat for Hulk. Also note that while he takes a bit to get up, immediately after the punch the movie goes into slow motion, so it's likely less time than we think it is.

No, it's a pretty big anti-feat for Hulk, based on it's showings thus far, the lightning cloak is super weak, as in struggles to destroy things with human level durability weak. It's pretty pathetic that Hulk was even hurt by this at all to be frank.

This next one is from the hype-generating Hulk vs Veronica fight from Avengers: Age of Ultron. This, I believe, is a feat that indicates that Hulk can no-sell Stark's repulsors. While he may have had some insane upgrades over time, this armor had 6 arc reactors in the back that we could see, one in each leg, and the chest one + there are likely some we don't see as I remember some source saying he had 11+. Let's call it the nine, though. He had at least nine arc reactors in one suit, and Hulk literally just walked through a sustained beam. I doubt even IW Stark is packing the level of repulsors needed to do what you described:

This is undeniably impressive, though I wouldn't argue that Hulk can no-sell Iron Man's repulsers, due to the fact that he was at the highest level of rage that he's been at in his entire career in the MCU. And his durability was massively amped because of it.

Because even if we assume, for some reason, that the Hulkbuster's repulsors were equal in intensity to Stark's regular suits, Hulk ALREADY walked through a sustained blast. Except I don't believe that the repulsors were weaker. Literally everything indicates that they were stronger: they visually larger than even the 400% power from the forest fight fired from a suit meant to fight an opponent who's caliber was yet to be encountered in the MCU (the suit was made before Ultron was an idea) that had at least nine arc reactors.

Yes, we can probably assume that these blasts were more powerful than most other armor's blasts thus far, however in this CaV Hulk is in character, and will be starting at base levels of anger. Whereas in this instance he was mind-controlled and bloodlusted, the angriest he's ever been. This lead to him having much much looser morals than usual:

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

As you can clearly see Hulk, knowing full well that there were people in the elevator behind Iron Man, kicks the Hulkbuster into that elevator, nearly killing everyone in it. Generally, in this bloodlusted state, Hulk showed no regard for human life, until after he'd been smashed through a building and was given expansive amounts time to look at the amount of damage and feat he had generated and the people he had effected. Regular Hulk is far more concerned about civilians:

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One & Two: Fury's file remarks on how Hulk always goes out of his way to save innocents, despite all of the rampaging that he does. Hulk then goes on to catch an RPG, jump away, and tank the explosion, all to protect some civilians. (Marvel's The Avengers: The Avengers Initiative) Three: When a Leviathan starts flying towards a building filled with people Hulk charges in to rescue them. He grabs the Leviathan and exerts an enormous amount of strength in order to prevent the people from being killed. (The Avengers)

As you can see, not only is Hulk careful about saving civilian lives, but he goes out of his way and endures extra pain and effort in order to do so. Yet in his fight with Iron Man Banner displays no regard for human life whatsoever, demonstrating that he is far more angry than usual.

I've established that Hulk was much more enraged than usual, but where does the notion that Hulk in this state was massively more durable than Hulk at more regular levels of anger come from? Well after Hulk calms down a little bit (after he'd been smashed through a building and was given expansive amounts time to look at the amount of damage and feat he had generated and the people he had effected) the Hulkbuster does this:

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

As you can very clearly see after Hulk calmed down a little bit the Hulkbuster easily oneshotted him, despite the fact that earlier, when Hulk was bloodlusted, he tanked dozens of punches from the Hulkbuster with minimal damage. Granted this was a sucker punch, however Hulk was getting ready fight, so he probably was somewhat braced. Overall I think we can agree that Hulk's durability when bloodlusted from Scarlet Witch's mind control>>Hulk at standard rage levels that he will start at in this CaV.

Hulk can probably get up to those ridiculously high levels of rage organically, but it would take a whole lot of fighting, and I think Iron Man can finish him off well before then, especially since Hulk has never reached that level of anger at any point again. So repulser blasts that bloodlusted Hulk can no-sell will definitely have an effect on regular Hulk, due to the massive discrepancy in durability between these rage levels, especially when Tony can dish out blasts that are this powerful:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Using his new repulser technology Iron Man overpowers Cull Obsidian's (who clearly weighs multiple tons) and then sends him flying hundreds of feet back at high speeds, only to barrel into several large minivans/SUVs, ragdolling them. Keep in mind that Cull was down for about a minute and a half after this, so he was probably temporarily KOed.

What makes this especially impressive is the fact the regular repulser blasts from the IW suit (ya' know the ones that overpowered the momentum of a multi-ton car and sent it flying back dozens of feet) were completely no sold by Cull:

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Avengers: Infinity War

As you can very clearly see, on several occasions Iron Man's regular repulsers got utterly no sold by Cull, who barely flinched and wasn't moved back an inch, seemingly taking no damage. Yet when Stark uses his new nano-tech to amp his blasts he ragdolls Cull hundreds of feet and KOs him. And this isn't the only time that Iron Man has used this tech:

Marvel's Captain Marvel Prelude #1 - TPB
Marvel's Captain Marvel Prelude #1 - TPB

Here Stark uses this feature once again whilst running tests on his new armor, taking out multiple turrets in the process. This not only displays that it's in character for Iron Man to uses this new tech, but also that these new blast can track their targets, as these blasts curve to make sure that all of their targets get destroyed.

But the IW suit isn't a regular suit, it's a clear step up. However, from what you showed, it's not that far above by feats. It sent a car flying, but an earlier model fked up a military bunker. By implication it's more powerful, but by feats it's lacking. Your only other resource lies in the IW suit's nanotech function, namely the blasts he used to send Cull flying by having parts of his suit take off and amp his repulsage power. Those would prove an issue, but I'll address them should you bring them up.

Well, I brought up those feats now, so I guess you should address them. Yet destroying a military bunker is impressive, probably more so that the car rag dolling feat (though not by a lot all things considered) however this repulser amping tech is clearly>>>>Tony's base IW repulsers. I honestly think that a blast from these could stun standard rage levels Hulk and make him groggy for an extended period of time, I even see it doing heavy damage to bloodshed Hulk (but I seriously doubt that Hulk will ever reach those levels of rage in this fight considering the fact that he's fought for 15-20 minutes straight in both Avengers movies without ever getting that angry).

What causes you to say that these are small building level? Visually, each individual one is certainly far from that and there was no indication in the movie itself that gave us a sense of how powerful these things were. While I think these may have some effect in terms of explosions around the Hulk blinding him, I don't think they're anything special in terms of genuine output. Small building is definitely a step above that, unless it's a really small building.

Small building may have been an exaggeration, I really meant more like suburban house level, but still I would argue that a single one of these missile is more powerful than a blast from a Chitauri speeder, and there were dozens upon dozens of these missiles, so that can definitely do some damage to the Hulk.

It's definitely worth noting here that he had to get inside the Leviathan to cause any damage. The insides were clearly much weaker, as Stark specifically asked Jarvis for a soft spot in the Leviathan armor and he'd still have run out of power before making a dent with his laser. Now obviously missiles =/= lasers, but it sets a precedent that Stark needed to go inside the Leviathan in order to take it out. I would also like to note that this explosion sent Stark flying a decent bit, and even gave an opening for the Chitauri to fire at him and put him down for a bit.

I wasn't claiming that Iron Man broke down the Leviathan's armor, I explicitly stated the Iron Man destroyed the Leviathan from the insideso I don't see why you would make a point out of that. Also Iron Man had to launch those missiles at point blank since he was literally in the intestine of the Leviathan, which won't be a problem he has here, so I don't think he'll get hit by the explosion in this fight.

That type of firepower is dangerous, but also hard to aim at a single target from the legs. Even then, that explosion wasn't exactly grand:

Given Iron Man's mobility and speed advantage I'm sure he'll be able to work around this fact.

If anything, THAT explosion is what small building level looks like. I'm not implying the Leviathans were small building either, they were clearly building/building+ level foes, but Stark had to blow them up from the inside. The small missiles you showed first were a clear step below small building level. Even if I call it building level, I do think Hulk could still survive that, albeit maybe a bit groggy. I'll showcase why in a bit.

Yeah, I agree Hulk could certainly survive it, and retain consciousness, but being groggy gives Iron Man time to hit him again, either with repulsers, more missiles, lasers, his fists, Iron Man has a lot of options, and he will use them to build momentum and KO Hulk. Even just being groggy could be enough for Tony to capitalize on and take out the green goliath.

See now this one would actually cause some discomfort to Hulk. It's an impressive feat. However, I think you're underselling the damage they went through. Breaking into pieces shouldn't be preceded by "but it only". The insides of the ship were also thrown completely out of place from what we saw before. The damage to the ship is more than you're letting on.

No, I said that the ship broke into pieces, which implies multiple pieces, it broke into multiple pieces, that is the reality of what happened, I am in no way underselling the level of damage done to the ship, and there is no reason to try to discredit me to the voters in this manner. (Sorry if I came off a little harsh there, I don't like for my CaV's to be toxic, but I couldn't think of a better way to say it. Hopefully no hard feelings)

Needless to say, though, that those missiles are definitely going to be felt by Hulk. I do, however, believe that he can fight through a handful of them should the need arise. I'll showcase why in a minute.

Can he fight through several of them at once though? Because Iron Man's new Infinity War armor can easily generate shoot off similar shoulder/back mounted missiles 6 at a time. He used this feature to great effect in his fight against Thanos (since you have a problem with using missile feats from different eras and part of Iron Man's body, which I'll get into below):

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Since you already conceded that these missiles would hurt Hulk singularly, I thing we can agree that 6 at once will do major damage. Which Iron Man can use to build momentum as I discussed above. Moving on to the next point...

I really, really hope you're not implying that an armor from 8 years ago is capable of shooting 6 mini-wrist rockets that have equal intensity to a shoulder-mounted rocket from an armor that was not only stated by directors to be a clear step aboveanythingStark had done before, but also just way more advanced? I mean the missiles themselves aren't even the same. The ship one is pure impact, the one on the drones actually burned them a bit before exploding.

Alright, I can use feats for wrist mounted rockets from the same era (granted different armors, but that shouldn't be a problem in the slightest considering the fact the I'm using composite Iron Man) and honestly, even back then his wrist rockets were pretty damn powerful:

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One: In his first real armor Iron Man one-shots a tank with a wrist-mounted missile, which causes an undeniably building level explosion. (Iron Man) Two: With a wrist-mounted missile from the same armor Iron Man blows up half a leviathan, another indisputably building level explosion. And yes, I know that he didn't destroy the armor, since it already fell off before Iron Man launched the missile. (The Avengers)

Six of these missiles at once? You better have some crazy good energy durability feats to prove that Hulk isn't going to get one-shotted by an attack like this.

Unfortunately, it's not time stamped, but at 8:59, Hulk begins getting to get barraged by Chitauri chariot fire, at least two dozen of them, non-stop. We see him get back up two minutes later at 10:59 with nothing but a nosebleed. The Chitauri are gone in that sequence, meaning that they finally stopped blasting him. There were, however, a likely handul of cuts. In the movie he starts getting blasted at the 2:02:45 mark, and is seen getting back up at the 2:06:00 mark. That's three minutes and 15 seconds of sustained Chitauri fire tanked with just a nosebleed. However, they were gone, so it was likely less time. Even if we take the original two minute time to account for events possibly happening at the same time, that's a long-ass time to be under sustained fire from over two dozen chariots.

I would say definitely less time, since they were completely out of the picture, meaning that why probably stopped over a minute before. And they likely only left because they though that Hulk had been eliminated, which means that he was either temporarily KOed by the blasts, or heavily stunned by them. (Also that video is blocked on copyright grounds, do you have another by any chance?)

A meager two chariots did this: These two Chitauri chariots were dealing insane damage, visibly destroying the concrete and blowing up a decent portion of the building. But Hulk took destruction that would be over twelve times this, given that more blasters would cause more chain reactions.

Yeah, that's definitely impressive, though I would argue that each individual blast was clearly less powerful than even the missiles that Iron Man used against the Chitauri chariots that I discussed in the beginning of the missiles partition of the debate, (not to mention the fact that most of the Chitauri's blasts were missing Hulk in the GIF you displayed) so I would still say that a barrage of missiles like that one from Iron Man would still be enough to hurt Hulk. And the six-shoulder mounted missiles Iron Man used against Thanos as well as the six-wrist mounted rockets that he used against the HAMMER drones should still be able to do heavy damage to Hulk. And his repulsers will also leave a major dent, especially when you consider that a single repulser one-shotted a tank:

Avengers: Age of Ultron
Avengers: Age of Ultron

Yep, that's right, as you can see with a casual, brief repulser blast Iron Man busts a tank. Obviously a blasts like this>>>a blast from a Chitauri speeder (his new Infinity War tech that he used to one-shot Cull is even more impressive than both, but this was worth including). Granted Hulk tanked dozens of blasts from the speeder, but you never addressed in your opener how Hulk will deal with a prolonged repulser blasts like this:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

This is a ten second straight repulser blast I just don't think that Hulk (outside of his bloodlusted state) will be able to withstand this without heavy damage. Especially when you consider the fact that Iron Man's repulsers, which only half-second blasts, can blow up a tank.

He actually seems only pressured by the initial barraged, taken a back, maybe even in pain, but not necessarily hurt. He came out of the ordeal relatively unscathed save for that nosebleed, which given the power of these blasts is actually insanely impressive.

Well I've already addressed the fact that I doubt that he came out of it without major damage, since they wouldn't have left unless they though he was taken care of, and I doubt that he jumped up to take them out since in the GIF you posted he was very clearly being overwhelmed and damaged by the blasts. And there is one barrage that I genuinely don't believe Hulk will be getting back up from based on his current feats:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

With a barrage of dozen of missiles Iron Man engulfs Thanos in a massive multi-building level explosion, and the kicker is, the explosion never even reached it's full size this Thanos absorbed the blast and used it to rag doll Iron Man hundreds of feet and through multiple building size metal structs, destroying them. If this doesn't one-shot Hulk outright, it'll certainly bring him very close.

As I showed above, Hulk took that lightning from Thor in their fight. Lightning is known for being five times hotter than the sun.

But here's the thing, Hulk didn't take a direct prolonged blast from Thor like Ultron or Iron Man did, he tanked Thor's lightning cloak for a portion of a second (given the fact that much of it was in slow motion as you admitted earlier). Regular human can survive lightning strikes, one man did it seven times:

It’s said that seven is a lucky number, but Roy Sullivan, a.k.a. the “Spark Ranger,” probably would have disagreed. The Shenandoah National Park ranger was apparently a natural conductor of electricity, and was struck by lightning a staggering number of times. Though some doubt Sullivan's stories—no one ever witnessed any of the strikes, only the aftermath—Guinness World Records was able to verify them enough to award the ranger the "Most lightning strikes survived" title. Here are his stories.

-http://mentalfloss.com/article/66863/meet-man-struck-lightning-7-times

Granted Hulk did tank Thor's cloak for longer than the average person tanks a lightning bolt, but he really didn't endure a direct blast, and again the lightning was only on him for a very short amount of time. Overall all I don't think that this proves that Hulk has heat resistance five times greater than the surface of a star (unless regular humans do too). So you'll have to find better heat resistance feats for Hulk.

Other than that, I can't recall a single named foe that Stark has used lasers on. Not Ultron, not Loki, not Thanos, not any of his own villains. I don't believe lasers are going to be much of a factor in this fight. He could've used them against Hulk during his Veronica fight, but he didn't, which could at least hint at the fact that he knew they'd be useless.

We have absolutely no idea whether or not the Hulkbuster was equipped with a laser in that instance, different suits have different tech. The Hulkbuster focused more on physicals than anything else, and probably didn't have most of the added versatility that Iron Man's regular armors have.

Generally Iron Man tends to use these as a last resort, like when he and Rhodey were completely surrounded or when he couldn't penetrate the armor of the Leviathan. Overall I feel that, whilst it's certainly not definite that Iron Man will use it, if he's having a hard time dropping Hulk he'll likely start to use alternative methods for damage output/getting the upper hand (just as he did against Whiplash, Thanos, Iron Monger, and Captain America) so I think that it's likely that he could use these if he's struggling to hurt Hulk otherwise (which is doubtful, but could still happen). And these will certainly mess Hulk up:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

His laser sliced right through the hull of one of Thanos' ship like it was butter, and keep in mind that I've already displayed these things flying in from orbit, withstanding re-entry completely unscathed. This pretty clearly proves that Iron Man's laser>>>>the heat of re-entry. And re-entry is pretty damn hot:

Specifically, shuttles face intense temperatures of about 3000 degrees Fahrenheit (about 1649 degrees Celsius) [source: Hammond].

-https://science.howstuffworks.com/spacecraft-reentry.htm

At this point I don't believe that Hulk has the heat resistance to suggest that he can tank a laser massively hotter that 1649 degree Celsius, so even though Iron Man uses it sparingly in combat, this is still a oneshot weapon, and if he decides to use it the fight will end right then and there. Hulk has no such advantage over Iron Man.

Speed & Mobility

Well, you mention it for me, so I'll just post it and leave it there.

These things are roughly 650mph.

You're right, MCU Hulk has never bullet timed.

Yep, and Iron Man replicated the same thing casually in one of his earliest armors. He has also reacted to much faster missiles than these. Such as the tank shell that he dodges in his very first appearance with his completed armor:

Iron Man
Iron Man

Yep, thats right, Iron Man dodged a tank shell explicitlyafter it had been fired, there's really just no disputing it. Now you stated above that RPGs move at 650 miles per hour, well tank shells move at roughly five-and-a-half times faster.

The 7.9 kg (17 lb) of JA-19 propellant creates a chamber pressure of 5,600 bars (~81,220 psi), which results in a muzzle velocity of 1,575 m/s (5,170 ft/s). The 684 mm (26.9 in)-long penetrator together with its sabot weighs 9 kg (20 lb). The mass of the penetrator alone is 4.6 kg (10 lb).

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M829

1,575 meters per second is roughly equal to 3523 miles per hour, you can do the math yourself. There is a pretty massive gap between these two reaction feats, which clearly demonstrates that Iron Man is significantly faster, especially since you acknowledged that Hulk isn't even a bullet timer (the average bullet is roughly 2 times slower than a tank shell).

Anyways, the feat shows great mobility from Stark's part in the air, but there's really no way to apply it to a ground fight. As for the scaling, I also disagree with it. There was a keen difference between the artillery fire and the gunfire. The artillery fire was bigger and exploded, the gunfire was just that. I highly doubt they were the same speed.

Well, it displays Iron Man's reaction speeds, also Iron Man often uses his flight/travel speed to blitz enemies in combat, so this should certainly prove very useful in that department, since he can combine his travel speed (which is hypersonic, I can provide proof if you need it) with his supersonic+ reaction speed to blitz the Hulk. Here are a couple examples of him doing this in combat:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

One: Iron Man uses his reaction/flight speed to bullrush into Ultron, punching him. (Avengers: Age of Ultron) Two: Stark uses his reaction/flight speed to blitz Thor with a kick. (The Avengers) Three: Iron Man does the same thing to Thanos. (Avengers: Infinity War)

Suffice to say that Tony will most certainly use his combat and flight speed in tandem in this battle. These are only a few examples of him doing so, there are many, many more that I'm happy to provide if need be.

Also the difference between the artillery-like Chitauri guns and the regular Chitauri guns has nothing to do with speed. Yes the artillery cannons were much bigger and obviously more powerful than the regular bullet sized blasts, and yes this would matter if I was comparing projectiles, but I'm not. Those Chitauri guns fire energy, and the speed of one type energy always remains constant, it's size and potency doesn't matter. Just take light as an example, the flash from a nuke covers dozens of square miles, and is powerful energy to melt somebody, yet it still moves at the same speed as a laser from a laser pointer, that has no effect on human flesh and only covers about a square millimeter. Size and potency don't affect the speed of energy. So the blasts that Iron Man was dodging were the same speed as the blasts that were keeping pace with machine gun fire.

Even then, I'm not going to actually contest Stark's mobility and speed edge. He definitely has it. I will, however, contest how large the edge is and a lot of the things you mentioned for counters.

Alright, well then let's get into it.

For instance, your first gif of Stark objectively outbullrushing Thor... I don't really see how that's relevant in terms of combat speed.

I already explained how Iron Man can abuse his flight speed in tandem with his combat speed to blitz the crap out of Hulk, so I won't get into that again;

Your second scan is far more combat applicable, and watching the scene on YT, I have no gripes with it. He legitimately went at Thor and grabbed him before the latter could react. Could that happen here? Possibly. I doubt it, though, given Hulk's feat of catching an RPG which should be much faster than Stark was moving in that scene.

Yeah, but catching an RPG is just reacting to an inanimate object that has a set trajectory, whereas Stark can also react, and move, (many times faster than Hulk) he's much less predictable than an RPG. So comparing the two is a false equivalency fallacy. Also if Iron Man can do it to Thor he can certainly do it to Hulk, since Thor consistently dances around the Hulk and in the same movie has a much better reaction feat than the RPG:

The Avengers
The Avengers

As you can see Thor easily reacts to Chitauri energy gun fire, blocking it with his hammer, and, as I've already displayed and been over multiple times, this energy fire is bullet speed. Which is multiple times faster than the speed of RPGs. If Iron Man can blitz Thor, he can blitz Hulk wayeasier.

I disagree with this interpretation. All Stark does is merely boost away from Thor before he himself gets hit, then comes back around to hit him again before he could get up. Hardly indicative of genuinely outspeeding someone. It shows that Stark is willing to fight dirty and has more means of escape, sure, but calling it bona fide blitzing and outspeeding is a bit duplicitous.

It's not duplicitous whatsoever. Iron Man activates his boosters and moves several feet after Thor starts swinging, but before he can land the blow, that's pretty clearly dodging/outspeeding. Dodging is when you avoid being hit after an attack has already been launched, which Iron Man did, and outspeeding is when you move faster than someone who is trying to move faster than you, which he did. Iron Man then flies dozens of feet, turns around, and flies dozens of feet back, all before Thor, who wasn't stunned dazed or impaired in any way, could even get back on his feet. Then Thor turns his head and sees Tony coming, he then fails to do anything about this or react in any way, and then he gets punched in the face. If that's not a blitz I don't know what is.

At best these are showings of mobility, albeit handy mobility, but not exactly pure CQC. You yourself mentioned the fact that in actual H2H, Thor was clearly the better fighter. Let's look at that:

Yeah, but that's the thing A. if Iron Man really gets pressured in CQC he can use the fight pattern analyzing software, but also Iron Man never really fights in CQC. He uses his strength and physicals to land punches and bullrush/blitz his enemies, but her rarely engages in pure CQC. Most of the time he keeps his distance, and when he does come in he still uses his rockets and flight to gain the advantage. So being fast in pure CQC isn't super necessary for this fight, however Iron Man does have better on land reaction feats than Hulk by a wide margin (the tank feat) so even without the fight pattern analyzing software he can still probably outmaneuver Hulk in CQC.

All of your Thor scaling gifs for Stark are merely for going in and out of combat. In actual h2h combat, something inarguably far more pertinent to this match-up, we see Stark get casually dominated. It wasn't even a surprise attack either, given that he actually threw the first punch and initiated the sequence. I'm decently sure this is the only sequence in the fight that contained actual H2H combat. The rest of the stuff Stark did is useful, but again, not bona fide CQC.

Which, again, doesn't really matter, since Stark actually still ended up landing many more attacks on Thor (who is way faster than Hulk, has range, and has flight) than Thor landed on him. Tony doesn't really dive into pure H2H combat, so this isn't a relevant point.

As I said earlier, I won't even try and contest Thor > Hulk in the mobility department, but I did have to address it. However, another incredibly important factor to keep in mind (something I'm surprised you don't know, or just refused to show) is that Thor was weakened. Odin mentioned in a Dark World tie-in comic that using Dark Energy to send Thor to Earth would have a "cost" to both of them, that there are risks involved (link). In fact, the tie in's final page has him looking like this, right before the confrontation with Stark (from the very next issue). This will be cited again in another interesting scaling bit of yours.

Yep, I've already been over this, nothing here indicates that Thor was weakened, he was just temporarily KOed by the dark energy, and there's nothing to indicate that the dark energy weakened him after that. But I've already been over this in greater detail, but yeah, Thor was at full power.

First I wanted to address the notion that Hulk's weapons will be blown to pieces off the bat. While they themselves have no durability feats, the meager fact that they're strong enough to NOT immediately break on impact with behemoths like the Hulk and Thor should more than suggest that they're at least meant to be incredibly tough. His hammer survived the impact of being thrown into an alien wall that broke into pieces when Thor-level strength sent the Hulk flying, tearing that same wall. In fact, when Hulk directly hit his hammer, it didn't break into pieces:

These are all neat blunt force showing, but I didn't say that Iron Man would punch it apart (though he probably could since he has slightly superior striking power to Hulk) I said he would blast it apart. All of those are blunt force durability feats, that doesn't speak at all to the weapons' energy durability or heat resistance. Both of which the weapons will need to be able to tank repulsers and missiles from Iron Man.

It was merely knocked out of Thor's hands. Thor's shield was actually shattered completelyon impactwith this hammer. His axe should at least have similar durability. Lastly, his armor wasn't damaged from Thor's first huge lightning punch which left electricity coursing throughout the Hulk, and it stands to reason his weapons are made out of a similar metal.

I already went over why tanking Thor's lightning cloak isn't remotely impressive, and on how briefly being his by lighting doesn't equate having heat resistance equal to five times the surface of the sun (especially metal since it's a conductor). This really isn't much of an energy durability feat at all, and I'm still certain that Hulk's weapons will get obliterated right away.

Where Cull had a shield for defense and thus could stop to block a few blows, all the Hulk has is two giant weapons. Two giant weapons that he seems adept at using, though. In the above gif he went at Thor relentlessly until getting a hit in, no stop in between. Now sure, the Hulk is Thor's friend and Thor was holding back, but it's not like Thor wants to get hit. He knows how strong Hulk is. Contrast the above, to say this gif of Cull. Cull doesn't necessarily struggle to swing his weapon, but it takes him far longer than Hulk. He's not swinging it as easily as Hulk is. Hulk doesn't just swing them around like an idiot either:

Ehhh, sometimes you can't visually judge people's speed in movies (unless they are moving FTE or something obviously intended to convey speed like that), often times directors slow things down for the audience (case and point: the DCEU Kryptonians in MoS), so we can't say for sure that Cull was moving slower than Hulk when he tagged Iron Man. Especially since Cull completely blitzed/outmauvered the new Hulkbuster (which was obviously upgraded from the old, which likely means faster too), which kept up fine with a bloodlusted Hulk in it's older incarnation:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

Granted this was Banner not Tony, but Bruce was actually shown to be pretty adept at using the suit (apart form the stark where he tripped on the rock, but that was mostly for comedic relief) he even knew the suit's function well enough to shoot off the hand and creatively take out Cull. Not to mention the fact that Banner generally remembers what happened when he's the Hulk, and probably knows pretty well how to fight in a similar body. Also Cull's only feats are tagging Iron Man (and Spider-Man) and outmaneuvering the Hulkbuster, so I really don't think that we can scale Hulk and Cull together in terms of speed, since we don't really have any way of accurately comparing them (outside of the Hulkbuster).

The first scan shows Stark getting caught while flying around in mid-air by Cull. Granted it was with a grab from his weapon, an option Hulk doesn't have, but it is in fact a viable tag.

Again, I just don't think we can scale Hulk and Cull's speed, so just because Cull can tag Iron Man, doesn't mean that Hulk can. Mostly I was just comparing Hulk and Cull because they have similar builds and power-sets, so Iron Man's minimal CQC approach should apply to both of them. I wasn't comparing them because I think that they have comparable stats.

The second scan is, to me, the most interesting. The fight picks up just after a cut to Maw/Strange, and Stark has a shield up. By this point in time, Spidey is in the fray as well, helping Stark to combat Cull. What I most want you to note is the gear that Stark has up: a nanotech shield. Shields are, first and foremost, defensive weapons, meaning that Stark knows he can't evade forever, EVEN THOUGH he has back-up. He knew he was going to get hit. He can't evade forever.

Or he just used a shield because he could react to Cull's blows. Using a shield doesn't inherently mean that you would get hit otherwise, it just means the you could react to and block your opponents blows. Also Spider-Man as standing like 30 feet away, and throughout the fight Cull didn't pay much attention to Peter at all, and treated him more like a nuisance than a threat.

The third is self explanatory, he gets hit by Cull mid dodge-attempt.

And again, Hulk=/=Cull, they have similar powersets, through they are different in terms of power levels. Just like Superman and Gladiator, same powers, different power levels.

So yes, while Stark can play the long game for what could end up being a long time, he's not going to be doing it for long. The only difference between Cull hitting Tony and Hulk hitting Tony is that Banner's blows will have afar more powerful effect. A shield-shattering blow that still sent Thor flying dozens of feet with a meager backhammer hit is going to hit Stark pretty hard. More on that in the strength section, though.

Cull was no joke in terms of strength, in fact, he was probably stronger than Hulk. The hammer throw that he used on Iron Man was above anything that Hulk has ever done. I mean that hammer sent Stark flying thousands of feet and through a thick apartment building. Hulk has no strength feats that match those. Also another difference between the two is the fact that their speed can't be scaled as equal for all of the reason I have already been over

Even then, Hulk doesn't really need the weapons. Once Stark sees that his ranged attacks are going ineffective or just not enough, he'll have to resort to CQC, which is around when you'll start bringing out those Thanos feats. I'll get to that in the physicals sections as well.

His ranged attacks are enough, Hulk's weapons will get destroyed early and then he'll lose a ton of reach, and if Iron Man can't drop Hulk with ranged attacks he doesn't have to resort to H2H, he can just blitz Hulk with his vastly superior speed. Lets take a look at Tony's best quantifiable speed feat:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Iron Man Wal-Mart Custom Comic #1 - Security Measures

In this instance a group of terrorists are getting ready to shoot their hostages, they pull the trigger, but instead of hitting the hostage, to their great surprise they hit Iron Man. Now this could mean one of two things, either Iron Man flew in so fast that no on could perceive him/react before they pulled the trigger, or Stark flew in after they pulled the trigger, which would mean that he would have had to move faster than the bullets. So he either is massively FTE in combat/reaction speed, or he is outright faster than bullets, which would put him in the supersonic+ range.

Either way, Hulk is nowhere near this fast so if Iron Man wants to blitz him, Hulk really can't do much of anything about it. The gap in their speed is also clearly represented in their respective showings against Thanos also:

Loading Video...

-Avengers: Infinity War

Alright, so first we see Thanos moving in on Iron Man, Tony responds by objectively outspeeding Thanos and making two rocket powered hammer-fists and punching the Mad Titan before he can do anything. Then Thanos does land a clean hit, ripping Iron Man's mask off, and he proceeds to throw a punch. Iron Man reacts to this, putting up his guard, however, due to Thanos' overwhelming physicality, Iron Man still gets hit and rag dolled. Then Thanos shoots a beam from his Infinity Gauntlet using the power gem, which Iron Man aim reacts to. Now this clearly displays that Iron Man>Thanos in speed. I'll start out by explaining why Iron Man had to have aim reacted to this:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

As you can clearly see the energy from the power gem is insanelyfast, it can span the entire surface of a moon (a continental distance) in only a couple of seconds. This makes it hundreds of times faster than lightning, and many thousands of times faster than sound. Obviously Iron Man can't actually react to something this fast, which means that he must have aim reacted to it. This is very impressive since it means that before Thanos could move his arm and shoot a blast Iron Man predicted that Thanos was going to shoot a blast, move his arm, create a large shield, and brace. Then after this Iron Man flat out blitzes Thanos, locking his arm down, then Stark hits Thanos again before the Mad Titan can react. Granted Thanos does end up dominating the encounter, but only due to his insane physicals, not because of his speed. Overall I'd say it's pretty clear that, while it's not a massive gap, due to Iron Man's mobility, reaction speed, and versatility, he can consistently outspeed Thanos. Hulk on the other hand, not so much:

Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Infinity War

As you can see, exterior to Hulk's initial surprise attacks, the Green Goliath is completely and utterly incapable of landing one single hit on the Mad Titan, and gets completely pummeled. In this instance Thanos isn't even using any of the gems. Speed-wise Iron Man>Thanos>>Hulk.

First I have to emphasize: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. Now let me re-emphasize: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. Let's reiterate: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern. This one is important too: Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.

*Plugs ears* LA LA LA LA LA LA LA. Alright, now let's get serious.

It's a simple matter here, really... Hulk has no skill to be analyzed. He has moments of skill (which mostly stem from experience, not actual technical ability), but for the most part, all he does is brute force his way to a victory. Moves here and there don't compare to the years of formal, actual training that Cap possesses, nor do they compare to Cap's actual, tested skill in combat.

It's not called a skill analyzer though, it's a fight pattern analyzer. And given that Cap has a much more complicated, faster pace, and or diverse fighting pattern than Hulk, Hulk will be massively more easy to analyze. As you pointed out yourself Hulk only uses a handful of well telegraphed moves that will be insanelyeasy to analyze.

In fact, it's highly similar to Stark's own fight against Captain Rogers and Sergeant Barnes: he lands blows not due to any formal training, but just picking up moves from years on the job. Lastly, this seems like a tool that would have been insanely handy during the events of Infinity War.

Yeah, but Iron Man engaged in absolutely no pure H2H combat in Infinity War, the closest he got was against Thanos, and even then he was using his flight, missiles, rockets, and versatility to land blows. So it really wouldn't have been very useful in Infinity War.

Let's take a look at what happens when Stark doesn't use this system:

At the beginning of the big team fight during the Airport Battle, Cap and Stark have a brief scuffle that Cap clearly dominates, easily dodging a blow and hitting the armored Avenger, then swiftly blocking and pushing Stark back, leaving him open to an arrow from Clint. Here, Stark has Bucky on the floor, gets hit by Cap's shield, gets up before Cap gets the shield back, and still gets rammed before having the opportunity to do anything. Here he seemingly trades evenly with the Super Soldier, save for the fact that only one of them is fast and skilled enough to get the other in a chokehold. Even Bucky was able to swiftly dodge a blow and get Iron Man in a position to be tag-teamed by the duo. While Buck does later on get punched twice, Bucky comes off looking far more skilled in that exchange, blocking many blows and getting him into position for another brutal punch that almost costs Stark his arc reactor. And of course, the infamous pre-"analyze his fight pattern" sequence. Note that this scene is actually a good bit longer than seen here, as I edited out all the parts that have Tony's face on them.

Yep, Iron Man used this more or less as a last ditch effort, once it actually started looking like he could lose the battle, and if he falls into a losing position in this fight (which I seriously doubt he will) I see no reason why he won't fall back on his fight pattern analyzer, and I see no reason why it won't work.

Let's compare the above gifs to those you showed for Blonsky: Out of the two combatants in this fight, only one of them was capable of fully keeping track of their opponent, pressing them defensively for a while, and actively engage in a fight. Not only this, but Hulk was using two unconventional weapons in the scenario. Here, he not only has more range, he's shown at least basic level training with his axe + hammer. Now sure, Cap is superior to Blonsky on-paper, but as I mentioned just then, there are a few factors that would make the situation far closer between Hulk and Stark. Before I get called out for using Civil War armor feats, I do need to highlight that my opponent brought it up first. I do need to reiterate the idea that Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern, though. Let's recall that the ONLY time he used it was when he was already overwhelmed. It would've been handy to use before that, say during the 2v1 when he was getting the tar beat out of him. Replace Cap in the gif I posted earlier with the freaking Hulk... how do you think that's gonna go down?

Okay, so you're using the fact that Cap and Bucky are naturally faster/more skilled than CW armor Iron Man to imply that Hulk is nearly as fast, if not faster than Iron Man, and then stating that you're not lowballing by using CW armor feats since I brought up the CW armor in the first place. However, I didn't bring up the CW armor in the context of it being naturally faster than the super soldiers, I brought it up to display a useful piece of gear that Iron Man could use against the Hulk. I think we can agree that Iron Man's other armors are massively faster than this one, and you still haven't given me one good reason as to why Iron Man won't use the fight pattern analyzer, especially if he's backed into a corner.

You didn't mention that he faced off against a weakened Thor and misrepresented at least one of those gifs (the "blitz" on a recovering Thor). Stark also got demolished in pure H2H, which is likely what most of this battle will be (i.e Stark's fight with Thanos).

Thor wasn't weakened as I've been over several times now, and in the same movie he still humiliated Hulk in speed and got a reaction speed feat way above anything that Hulk has ever displayed. And Iron Man vs. Thanos wasn't a H2H fight, and Thanos is not a good comparison to the Hulk, since he was using several of the gems, making him ranged and massively versatile. A better comparison would be Hulk vs. Cull.

Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.\

Except you provided no real evidence to support this claim.

Your Cull gifs were fair, but as I mentioned, where Stark experienced success against an inferior opponent to Hulk, it's not unlikely that he'll face even worse failure against a superior opponent to Cull.

We really have no idea how Cull's speed is compared to the Hulk's, and in the same movie Iron Man was seen outspeeding Thanos (who is wayabove Hulk in speed) so if anything we should assume that Cull>Hulk in speed given the fact that he was able to tag Iron Man.

Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.

Except you provided no real evidence to support this claim.

Hulk doesn't really have a fighting style to be analyzed, and it was a function Stark only used when on the brink. He also never used it again. Replace Cap with the freaking Hulk when Stark used it, and he's not gonna live to use it.

I've already been over these same points, and Iron Man (given his insane durability) will certainly be able to tank as many hits from Hulk as he did from Steve.

Tony Stark will not analyze Hulk's fight pattern.

Except you provided no real evidence to support this claim.

Hulk also did far better against a Super Soldier than Stark did... It really wasn't even a close comparison. Stark was getting blitzed left and right, and at one point couldn't even react properly to an absolute onslaught. Hulk had enough dexterity and mobility to keep track of Blonsky and even press the offensive, something that Stark didn't do until he pulled a move he never pulled again.

Except in this instance Iron Man is in armors waay more powerful and fast than the armor that Cap and Bucky outmaneuvered in Civil War. armors that scale well above Hulk in speed, and have much better objective feats that the Green Goliath.

Conclusion

Really nothing much has changed in my strategy from my opener. Iron Man has comparable strength, more or less equal striking, superior durability, far more versatility, far more speed and mobility, and powerful ranged attacks. Iron Man will just keep his distance blasting Hulk with missiles and repulsers, blitzing in to land a couple of powerful punches. This will make it very hard for Hulk to tag Iron Man, and it will wear the Green Goliath down quickly. When Hulk does land punches, Iron Man's insane durability and useful healing factor will allow him to shrug off Hulk's assaults and continue fighting. And Tony has a couple of last ditch weapons that will allow him to get out of most sticky situations, such as his lasers and his fight pattern analyzer. Simply put: Iron Man will wear Hulk down and take him out, and he won't take too much damage on the way.

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#49 Posted by Amcu (16926 posts) - - Show Bio
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#50 Posted by blackpantherisb (7262 posts) - - Show Bio

@amcu: Hopefully you enjoy it.