Martian Manhunter vs Madara Uchiha

Avatar image for lordtwigo
LordTwigo

4805

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Serious Post Crisis J'onn vs Peak Power Madara

Who wins?

Avatar image for professorrespect
ProfessorRespect

43342

Forum Posts

12984

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

J'onn jobs most likely/

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

J'onn solos the fodder verse

Avatar image for mage101
Mage101

4272

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

J'onn, j'onn, j'onn.

Avatar image for mordhauextreme1
MordhauExtreme1

2314

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Madara, John is stronger but that’s about it. Peak madara has better abilities, similar stats besides strength, superior healing, better fighter, etc

Avatar image for supreme101
Supreme101

8845

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 7

#6 Supreme101  Online

Now that the notifs are working @frozen @takenstew22

Avatar image for seastone98
seastone98

8474

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Big green

Avatar image for ashketchum93
AshKetchum93

389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

J'onn. He's literally planetary in strength and then has all his other hax abilities and is stated by OP to be "serious" which means no jobbing

Avatar image for professorrespect
ProfessorRespect

43342

Forum Posts

12984

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

J'onn. He's literally planetary in strength and then has all his other hax abilities and is stated by OP to be "serious" which means no jobbing

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for supa00
Supa00

66

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#12  Edited By Supa00

Madara destroys him. Amaterasu or any sort of fire style hard counters his race. Limbo would be a constant barrier preventing him from closing the distance and using his strength edge. He would also have to keep diverting attention to the truth seeking orbs or risk losing immediately.

Avatar image for uchihaghost
uchihaghost

6224

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@supa00: madara doesn't havae amaterasu...

Though i agree madara wins, madara uses fire which is M's main weakness, plus he has limbo which MM can't really defend against or see.

Avatar image for kasya_carey
kasya_carey

19821

Forum Posts

353

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Madara, John is stronger but that’s about it. Peak madara has better abilities, similar stats besides strength, superior healing, better fighter, etc

Peak Madara ain’t doing nothing to Peak MHM

Avatar image for ashketchum93
AshKetchum93

389

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@professorrespect: Confused by your response... I watch naruto and read comics. MMH is above Madara in strength. Comparable speed (J'onn is comparable to superman in that). Will concede that in character J'onn jobs constantly. But "serious" J'onn is above even superman. He tows planets and has regenerated from beheadings and straight up liquification. Kaguya would wipe the floor with him but not Madara. As for fire, madara doesn't have prior knowledge per prompt. Do you want to respond with more than a (C-tier) meme?

Avatar image for mordhauextreme1
MordhauExtreme1

2314

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kasya_carey: you need to show me MMH tanking truth seeking orbs and being able to resist BFR. Madara claps via powers

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@supa00: madara doesn't havae amaterasu...

Though i agree madara wins, madara uses fire which is M's main weakness, plus he has limbo which MM can't really defend against or see.

It's stated and shown multiple times he can overcome this weakness

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kasya_carey: you need to show me MMH tanking truth seeking orbs and being able to resist BFR. Madara claps via powers

That's not how we debate my guy. I can just as easily say "show me Madara withstanding telepathic attacks on par with what J'onn dishes out on the regular." And call it a day.

Anyway truth seeking orbs will not be an issue on account of phasing. Same for BFR. I could even scale MMH to his fellow martian who can do this like this:

No Caption Provided

Avatar image for masterbuster666
MasterBuster666

7360

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Tbh Eida would be a better matchup imo.

Avatar image for kasya_carey
kasya_carey

19821

Forum Posts

353

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@kasya_carey: you need to show me MMH tanking truth seeking orbs and being able to resist BFR. Madara claps via powers

You need to show me Madara not having his mind destroyed. I’m sorry a little moon light for illusions is not doing much.

Avatar image for uchihaghost
uchihaghost

6224

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#23  Edited By uchihaghost

@killianduclark: madara's flames even in base is much more potent than regular flames much less as a juubi jin mixed with rikudou senjutsu. How do you think MM wins though?? Whats his Ap and abilities you think will stop madara??

@mordhauextreme1: again madara does not bfr

Avatar image for galaxium
galaxium

816

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Martian

Avatar image for mordhauextreme1
MordhauExtreme1

2314

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@killianduclark said:

@mordhauextreme1 said:

@kasya_carey: you need to show me MMH tanking truth seeking orbs and being able to resist BFR. Madara claps via powers

That's not how we debate my guy. I can just as easily say "show me Madara withstanding telepathic attacks on par with what J'onn dishes out on the regular." And call it a day.

Anyway truth seeking orbs will not be an issue on account of phasing. Same for BFR. I could even scale MMH to his fellow martian who can do this like this:

No Caption Provided

Sorry pal, that's also how we don't debate here. Your scan always showcases him being given godlike abilities by Perpetua, care to showcase how the rest of the Martians are given the same blessings as well? Because im willing to best MMH is no where near omnipotent at all, if so show base form MMH that level, you won't be able to because it doesnt exist

This is why scaling is extremely dumb and illogical when applied in all the wrong ways

You certainly can, you can simply say who strikes first and believe MMH's TP is quicker to the draw than Madara's defenses and too fast for Madara to react. This answer is used all the time, not sure why all the sudden its different here in this thread

Regardless for the argument you're trying to make "I can just do X, Y, and Z" You certainly can, but I can counter via stating Madara's clones slap him before he does so, additionally MMH isn't going to go instant TP in a fight jobbing or non jobbing unless u care to show it constantly and consistently?

Additionally you edited your answer for some reason, not sure why, yet Madara has TP defenses wouldn't be enough for him to force MMH on the defensive as well

As for phasing, you'd need to post MMH tanking something like that, that negs regen, isn't just physical, and can take multiple ones along with going on the offensive to do so

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@killianduclark said:

@mordhauextreme1 said:

@kasya_carey: you need to show me MMH tanking truth seeking orbs and being able to resist BFR. Madara claps via powers

That's not how we debate my guy. I can just as easily say "show me Madara withstanding telepathic attacks on par with what J'onn dishes out on the regular." And call it a day.

Anyway truth seeking orbs will not be an issue on account of phasing. Same for BFR. I could even scale MMH to his fellow martian who can do this like this:

No Caption Provided

Sorry pal, that's also how we don't debate here. Your scan always showcases him being given godlike abilities by Perpetua, care to showcase how the rest of the Martians are given the same blessings as well? Because im willing to best MMH is no where near omnipotent at all, if so show base form MMH that level, you won't be able to because it doesnt exist.

This is why scaling is extremely dumb and illogical when applied in all the wrong ways

Lol, of course MM scales to Apex Lex. Which Martian do you think Lex fused with to become like that in the first place?

No Caption Provided

You certainly can, you can simply say who strikes first and believe MMH's TP is quicker to the draw than Madara's defenses and too fast for Madara to react. This answer is used all the time, not sure why all the sudden its different here in this thread

You can say that but that's still not an argument. It's just a declaration. Simply stating something happens without buttressing your point with an accompanying rationale or even a feat to support your claim isn't exactly good debating, even if we all do that.

Regardless for the argument you're trying to make "I can just do X, Y, and Z" You certainly can, but I can counter via stating Madara's clones slap him before he does so, additionally MMH isn't going to go instant TP in a fight jobbing or non jobbing unless u care to show it constantly and consistently?

Limbo clones where detected by Naruto just through his empathic like sage mode abilities. J"on is vastly superior empathy. So no limbo clones aren't a problem.

Additionally you edited your answer for some reason, not sure why,

I didn't. Whenever you incorporate images into your post it automatically reads as an edit even if it was done before posting

yet Madara has TP defenses wouldn't be enough for him to force MMH on the defensive as well

Madara doesn't have TP resistance. He has genjutsu resistance. Genjutsu is massively inferior form of TP.

As for phasing, you'd need to post MMH tanking something like that, that negs regen, isn't just physical, and can take multiple ones along with going on the offensive to do so

The whole point of phasing is that you don't need to tank something in the first place.... that's why it's also called intangibility or ghosting. So you are the one that has to prove TSO harm intangible beings

Avatar image for uchihaghost
uchihaghost

6224

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@killianduclark: Limbo clones where detected by Naruto just through his empathic like sage mode abilities. J"on is vastly superior empathy. So no limbo clones aren't a problem.

Nope, naruto has 3 other senses apart from his conventional 5 senses, they are sage mode/negative emotion sensing (which is empathy sensing) and six paths sensing. Limbo couldn't be sensed by emotion sensing. It was a different kind of sensing altogether that was used to sense limbo

yet Madara has TP defenses wouldn't be enough for him to force MMH on the defensive as well

Madara doesn't have TP resistance. He has genjutsu resistance. Genjutsu is massively inferior form of TP.

Genjutsu and TP are the same bruh, just called different things, all mind based attacks or mental attacks lemme quote a wiki definition of telepathy

"The user hastelepathy, the ability to receive and transmit information with one’s mind without physical interaction. However, many other mind-based abilities fall under telepathy due to those powers overlapping with the core concept of telepathy, allowing a telepath to interact with their own mind and the minds of others in a variety of ways. Some of the more common abilities also considered telepathy would be perceiving the thoughts of others and detecting the presences of other minds through extrasensory means. More advanced users can influence or completely control the minds of their targets and manipulate their thoughts, memories and emotions at will. Potentially, they even control Psychic energy from their telepathic abilities, strengthening their previous powers and maybe even gaining new ones."

The whole point of phasing is that you don't need to tank something in the first place.... that's why it's also called intangibility or ghosting. So you are the one that has to prove TSO harm intangible beings

True phasing negates physical damage, but madara has 4 intangible clones (to MM atleast) and undetectable unlike MM who can be seen, madara might not have the conventional phasing like kamui, but his clones are very much intangible to someone that can't interract with them.

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#28  Edited By KillianDuclark
@uchihaghost said:

Nope, naruto has 3 other senses apart from his conventional 5 senses, they are sage mode/negative emotion sensing (which is empathy sensing) and six paths sensing. Limbo couldn't be sensed by emotion sensing. It was a different kind of sensing altogether that was used to sense limbo

Doesn't change anything. Limbo clones are only a threat as they exist in the invisible limbo dimension. J"onn has shown multiple times that dimensional barriers are no issues for his telepathy.

No Caption Provided

Genjutsu and TP are the same bruh, just called different things, all mind based attacks or mental attacks lemme quote a wiki definition of telepathy

"The user hastelepathy, the ability to receive and transmit information with one’s mind without physical interaction. However, many other mind-based abilities fall under telepathy due to those powers overlapping with the core concept of telepathy, allowing a telepath to interact with their own mind and the minds of others in a variety of ways. Some of the more common abilities also considered telepathy would be perceiving the thoughts of others and detecting the presences of other minds through extrasensory means. More advanced users can influence or completely control the minds of their targets and manipulate their thoughts, memories and emotions at will. Potentially, they even control Psychic energy from their telepathic abilities, strengthening their previous powers and maybe even gaining new ones."

This is a joke right? You are supporting someone's claim that Madara has TP resistance yet in the very paragraph you posted genjutsu is incapable of performing even the most rudimentary of telepathic feats like thought broadcasting or scanning. Telepath is an umbrella term. So saying Madara has TP resistance implies he has resistance to all the abilities associated with it. Which Genjutsu clearly does not. So like I said, Madara has genjutsu resistance. Which is massively inferior to true TP resistance.

The whole point of phasing is that you don't need to tank something in the first place.... that's why it's also called intangibility or ghosting. So you are the one that has to prove TSO harm intangible beings

True phasing negates physical damage, but madara has 4 intangible clones (to MM atleast) and undetectable unlike MM who can be seen, madara might not have the conventional phasing like kamui, but his clones are very much intangible to someone that can't interract with them.

You haven't said anything that relates to my original point about TSO... But whatever, Limbo clones are sometimes intangible because they exist out of sync with the normal world. The Phasing J"onn does is manipulating his molecular density. They are two separate things. But we know atleast in the DC universe phasing supercedes dimensional shifting as J"onn can comfortably phase through green lantern construct, yet those same constructs can suppress dimensional shifting.

Avatar image for uchihaghost
uchihaghost

6224

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

What you showed was MM connecting to the mind of everyone not cross dimension, show feat of him connecting across dimensions then i'll give you that edge on Jonn sensing limbo clones

This is a joke right? You are supporting someone's claim that Madara has TP resistance yet in the very paragraph you posted genjutsu is incapable of performing even the most rudimentary of telepathic feats like thought broadcasting or scanning. Telepath is an umbrella term. So saying Madara has TP resistance implies he has resistance to all the abilities associated with it. Which Genjutsu clearly does not. So like I said, Madara has genjutsu resistance. Which is massively inferior to true TP resistance.

Bro what are you talking about? Genjutsu has shown multiple aspects of TP and yes rinnegan/sharingan provides tp defence we have seen that multiple times, genjutsu does an array of things like;

> mind reading (sasuke against zetsu)

> mind control (madara to kurama)

> mind invasion (hebi sasuke against naruto)

> thought projection (itachi against sasuke)

> mind torture (itachi against kakashi)

> illusion creation (itachi

> paralyses (itachi vs orochimaru)

> fear inducement (sasuke against sai)

> knocking out the opponent (sasuke to sakura/kakashi to anbu members)

How do you say this is not TP bro?? These all fall under mental attacks, and the rinnegan/sharingan provides defence against all that.

The whole point of phasing is that you don't need to tank something in the first place.... that's why it's also called intangibility or ghosting. So you are the one that has to prove TSO harm intangible beings

Again, i didn't make such a claim

You haven't said anything that relates to my original point about TSO... But whatever, Limbo clones are sometimes intangible because they exist out of sync with the normal world. The Phasing J"onn does is manipulating his molecular density. They are two separate things. But we know atleast in the DC universe phasing supercedes dimensional shifting as J"onn can comfortably phase through green lantern construct, yet those same constructs can suppress dimensional shifting

I was not the one making the tsb argument, phasing or not, jonn has been tagged by multiple characters with no counters to phasing, and limbo is one ability madara can use to tag jonn when he becomes tangible, and madara has 4 clones that are equal to him. Unlike jonn who as i said can be seen and avoided via limbo swap and madara can regenerate from any damage anyways

Avatar image for dreamz
DREAMz

78

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

J’onn solos 100 Madara we saw what 8 gates guy did to him lol

Avatar image for uchihaghost
uchihaghost

6224

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

@dreamz: many factors toconsider

1. thats not prime madara (that was 1 eyed pre shinjus juudara) he had like 3 more buffs after that

2. guy had support

3. Madara was hit with CIS and didn't use his limbo

Whats jonns AP or how does he beat madara?

Avatar image for killianduclark
KillianDuclark

16880

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

#32  Edited By KillianDuclark
@uchihaghost said:

What you showed was MM connecting to the mind of everyone not cross dimension, show feat of him connecting across dimensions then i'll give you that edge on Jonn sensing limbo clones

It is implied dimensional reach but if you want an explicit one here:

No Caption Provided

MM with the help of green lantern manages to find and connect with the flash, who at that time was lost in another dimension.

This is a joke right? You are supporting someone's claim that Madara has TP resistance yet in the very paragraph you posted genjutsu is incapable of performing even the most rudimentary of telepathic feats like thought broadcasting or scanning. Telepath is an umbrella term. So saying Madara has TP resistance implies he has resistance to all the abilities associated with it. Which Genjutsu clearly does not. So like I said, Madara has genjutsu resistance. Which is massively inferior to true TP resistance.

Bro what are you talking about? Genjutsu has shown multiple aspects of TP and yes rinnegan/sharingan provides tp defence we have seen that multiple times, genjutsu does an array of things like;

> mind reading (sasuke against zetsu)

> mind control (madara to kurama)

> mind invasion (hebi sasuke against naruto)

> thought projection (itachi against sasuke)

> mind torture (itachi against kakashi)

> illusion creation (itachi

> paralyses (itachi vs orochimaru)

> fear inducement (sasuke against sai)

> knocking out the opponent (sasuke to sakura/kakashi to anbu members)

How do you say this is not TP bro?? These all fall under mental attacks, and the rinnegan/sharingan provides defence against all that.

The whole point of phasing is that you don't need to tank something in the first place.... that's why it's also called intangibility or ghosting. So you are the one that has to prove TSO harm intangible beings

Again TP is an umbrella term as your own quote points out. Genjutsu doesn't even scratch the surface of the most rudimentary telepathic abilities in comics and fiction like

Psychic link

Empathic manipulation

Psionic bolts

Psionic shields

Consciousness displacement

Mind reading

Mental assault (mind rape)

Etc.

So saying genjutsu resistance is akin to actual TP resistance is laughable, as you are baseless trying to suggest Madara has resistance to abilities and techniques never even conceived of in the Naruto universe.

You haven't said anything that relates to my original point about TSO... But whatever, Limbo clones are sometimes intangible because they exist out of sync with the normal world. The Phasing J"onn does is manipulating his molecular density. They are two separate things. But we know atleast in the DC universe phasing supercedes dimensional shifting as J"onn can comfortably phase through green lantern construct, yet those same constructs can suppress dimensional shifting

Again, i didn't make such a claimI was not the one making the tsb argument,

So you butted into an ongoing discussion not to add to it but to interject a point barely related to the conversation being had?

phasing or not, jonn has been tagged by multiple characters with no counters to phasing,

Yes by being blitzed or blindsided. Unless you are arguing Madara is fast enough to blitz I don't see why you bring it up.

No Caption Provided

and limbo is one ability madara can use to tag jonn when he becomes tangible,

Something you haven't proven or supported in anyway. I've already outlined how phasing and dimensional shifting compare in DC.

and madara has 4 clones that are equal to him. Unlike jonn who as i said can be seen and avoided via limbo swap and madara can regenerate from any damage anyways

One J"onn is already more than enough for six or seven Madara's. The numbers advantage doesn't bridge the grotesque gap in sheer power and hax he holds over Madara. Likewise J"onn has regen on a molecular level, so he isn't the only one here that is hard to kill. But unlike Madara, J"onn has proven track record of incapacitating nigh unkillable beings

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Whats jonns AP or how does he beat madara?

Planetary+ AP on account of moving the Earth. And he can oneshot Madara with a basic telepathic assault. The guy can stump 5th dimensional imps like Mxy,

No Caption Provided

Beings with a proven track record of actual telepathic resistance and are vastly more powerful than anyone in the Naruto verse.

Avatar image for i_use_spoons
I_use_spoons

14

Forum Posts

0

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 0

User Lists: 0

Manhunter with absolutely zero contest.

Avatar image for professorrespect
ProfessorRespect

43342

Forum Posts

12984

Wiki Points

0

Followers

Reviews: 2

User Lists: 9

I would roast this J'onn wank but I'm not defending Naruto stuff lol.