Martian Manhunter and Sentry vs Shazam and Silver Surfer

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ShazamFan666

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#1  Edited By ShazamFan666
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- No Void

- Pre-52, Pre-Marvel NOW!

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green_skaar

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Current Death Seed Sentry?

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Cream_God

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This looks good, I really can't decide...I'll wait for the debates to get going till I pick a side

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Jmarshmallow

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I want to say Team 1, but for some reason I can't help but lean towards Team 2. This is a good matchup.

Suprisingly, I think Shazam is the weak link here.

Jmarshmallow

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ShazamFan666

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Current Death Seed Sentry?

No, not Death Seed.

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Dratini1331

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Team 1. MMH can arguably get the best of Surfer, and Sentry should beat Billy considering Superman can also get the best of Billy.

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Jmarshmallow

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@dratini1331: I'm almost positive that non-Death Seed or Void Sentry is < Superman though.

Jmarshmallow

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green_skaar

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This is a tough one, good match up OP.

I give a slight edge to SS over MM and Sentry over Shazam. I can see it going either way, but will give Team 2 the nod.

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Dratini1331

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@jmarshmallow: Non-death seed? eh, I'd put them around the same, with superman ahead in some aspects. However, Sentry isn't as vulnerable to Magic AFAIK, and the way Superman takes BIlly is often through skill and experience rather than pure power.

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Jmarshmallow

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@dratini1331: You raise a very good point. However, I always recall regular Sentry being a bit of a jobber.

Didn't he even get KO'd by She-Hulk?

Jmarshmallow

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SOG7dc

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#11  Edited By SOG7dc

Team 2. Surfer has his "know everything" power (cosmic awareness) so he should know about MM's telepathy and his weakness to fire and all of his powers. So if he's smart he'll just go straight to the "trap my opponent in my board" trick. So that leaves sentry to duke it out with Shazam. And i think shazam and sentry would actually have a fight that would last a while. But after surfer has dispersed of MM then it's 2v1 (silver surfer and sentry vs shazam) And though I think shazam would put up a fight for a few minutes after a while he will perish. So team 2 wins

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the_red_viper

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#12 the_red_viper  Moderator

@dratini1331: You raise a very good point. However, I always recall regular Sentry being a bit of a jobber.

Didn't he even get KO'd by She-Hulk?

Jmarshmallow

He also made Terrax look like a little girl, which is a feat to be reckoned with. I think he can get the better of Billy.

Manhunter's telepathy, intangability, and all his other cool Martian powers can give him an edge over Surfer (perhaps not a big one though), and he can also keep SS bus just enough for Sentry to deal with Billy then they can double-team Surfer.

I think I'll give it to team 1 like 6.5/10.

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Jmarshmallow

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@sog7dc: To be fair, Cosmic awareness wouldn't work with MM, he's not from SS's cosmos.

@the_red_viper: Wait, was that regular Sentry?

And besides, Surfer has no shortage of random cool powers. I think this really all comes down to Sentry vs. Shazam. If Sentry beats Billy, then together him and MM beat Surfer. If Billy beats Sentry, then vice-versa.

Jmarshmallow

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the_red_viper

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#14 the_red_viper  Moderator

@sog7dc: To be fair, Cosmic awareness wouldn't work with MM, he's not from SS's cosmos.

@the_red_viper: Wait, was that regular Sentry?

And besides, Surfer has no shortage of random cool powers. I think this really all comes down to Sentry vs. Shazam. If Sentry beats Billy, then together him and MM beat Surfer. If Billy beats Sentry, then vice-versa.

Jmarshmallow

I dunno... was it?

I'm not an expert on Sentry. But here are the scans, suppose you'd know.

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heroesgold

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I'll give this to team 2. Sliver Surfer could probably best MM in a good battle and Sentry would beat Marvel. Leaving Sliver Surfer vs Sentry and Surfer beats Sentry. This wouldn't be easy though.

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SheenLantern

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SOG7dc

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@jmarshmallow: Is that how it works? Because every thread I've been to where surfer goes up against a character from another publisher Boone has ever brought that up....but it does make sense that it wouldn't apply

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Jmarshmallow

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@sog7dc: Well, he would still "see them coming" I suppose, because one aspect of cosmic awareness is kinda like Spidey-Sense.

But the other aspect of cosmic awareness is basically prep, knowing everything about the other character. However, since he gets this power from Galactus, any power outside of Galactus's domain is non-applicable.

For example, Surfer wouldn't know everything about TOAA, because he's beyond Galactus.

Surfer wouldn't know anything about MM, like his weaknesses, because MM is from a Universe where Galactus has no power.

It's all theory, but it makes sense. To me anyway, lol.

And @the_red_viper: That may be Death-Seed Sentry? I'm not entirely sure to be honest, it's been awhile since I've read anything with Sentry.

But if that really is regular Sentry, and he can take down Terrax(who is usually considered to be around Surfer's level of power) without using any effort, then he would solo.

Jmarshmallow

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czarny_samael666

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@jmarshmallow: @sog7dc:

CA is about place, not character. TOAA is beyond one universe, as is LT, so they can't be full understood by Surfer.

Quasar and Maelstrom could feel everything in 616, but not in Quantum Zone. Yet, we accept on Battle forum that universe in which fight take place, share properties of both universes, ergo Surfer's CA will work. There are ways of blocking it, but Martian/Cap never even met it, so it is pointless to try to prove it won't "read" them.

And this is really hard fight to judge, good job @shazamfan666.

Martian should use TP, so Surfer will have to block it. Sooner or later Surfer will win in battle in Astral Plane, since its energy is his to command.

Sentry vs Shazam? His feats mostly came from fights with Adam and Superman. If Setnry isn't on some bad day with his mental issues, he is above planet buster like Binary (actually he would have to go completly crazy like in fights with Iron Man and WWHulk to not be). I don't see Cap taking that kind of attack and Sentry isn't a person who holds back when he isn't afraid of Void (I assume that he isn't, since it would mean that Void is somewhere in him already. It is complicated, but I am trying to not use Marvel Knights Sentry, who would outmuscle Cap in seconds nor Void who should solo this battle).

To sum it all:

Martian should hold Surfer longer, than Cap will be able to hold Sentry, so Sentry will help his teammate and win the battle for them.

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comic_book_fan

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surfer and marvel.

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Cream_God

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Here's how I feel about each of these characters

SS > Sentry >or= MM >or= SHAZAM

I'm leaning towards team 2

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Ddecourt

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Team 1

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Jmarshmallow

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@cgoodness: Viper just provided a scan of Sentry easily beating Terrax, who's considered to be around or just slightly less than Surfer.

Jmarshmallow

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Cream_God

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@jmarshmallow: SS is way faster than Terrax, that's why I put him above sentry. Power wise Terrax is up their with SS, agility and speed wise, not even close.

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Jmarshmallow

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@cgoodness: Truthfully, I'm not sure if it will matter. Sentry grabbed that axe like it was nothing, and as you said there about the same strength-wise. I mean, there isn't much to suggest that Surfer has better combat speed than Sentry, only better travel speed.

And speed in general probably wouldn't be a factor anyway. I mean, a fly is faster than me, but if it can't hurt me then I don't care how fast it circles around me trying to attack me.

Jmarshmallow

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giantsfan576

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green_skaar

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#27  Edited By green_skaar

@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

Sentry over Shazam

?

He picks Marvel characters over anyone no matter what

Wrong. Sentry over Shazam is the majority opinion here, Shazam is the weak link. A very powerful weak link mind you.

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Cream_God

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@jmarshmallow: well Terrax is around 75% speed of light, SS is +1000x speed of light (all speed wise). And we've both seen enough SS VS Flash threads and topics to know SS has insane combat speed. And I mention speed because Sentry used speed to defeat Terrax (dodging his blasts and grabbing his axe mid swing), he can't do that against SS. Maybe to SHAZAM but not SS.

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giantsfan576

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@green_skaar: Shazam may be the weak link in this team fight because of MMH but how in the world does sentry beat shazam 1 on 1?

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green_skaar

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@green_skaar: Shazam may be the weak link in this team fight because of MMH but how in the world does sentry beat shazam 1 on 1?

By punching him over and over again.

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MAZAHS117

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I'd say morals on, Team 1 would win

Morals off, I'd give it to Team 2....mainly because of Surfer, he's the MVP on Team 2.

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giantsfan576

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#32  Edited By giantsfan576

@green_skaar: Wow I never thought of it like that! Thanks for opening my eyes I totally agree with you now! By punching him over and over again! Awesome!

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green_skaar

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@green_skaar: Wow I never thought of it like that! Thanks for opening my eyes I totally agree with you now! By punching him over and over again! Awesome!

What did you want me to say? Comic characters fight that way, especially Sentry w/o Void. I suppose he could atomize him too if you want another answer.

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giantsfan576

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@green_skaar: so shazam is defenseless and can't punch back?

Also my main point is that you always choose Marvel...why?

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green_skaar

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#35  Edited By green_skaar

@green_skaar: so shazam is defenseless and can't punch back?

Also my main point is that you always choose Marvel...why?

Of course he can punch back, I think Sentry would just dish out more damage.

I don't always choose Marvel, I've chosen DC, Image and others like D.

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SheenLantern

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#36  Edited By SheenLantern

@giantsfan576 said:
@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

Sentry over Shazam

?

He picks Marvel characters over anyone no matter what

Wrong. Sentry over Shazam is the majority opinion here, Shazam is the weak link. A very powerful weak link mind you.

Still waiting for any explanation whatsoever.

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green_skaar

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#37  Edited By green_skaar

@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

@giantsfan576 said:
@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

Sentry over Shazam

?

He picks Marvel characters over anyone no matter what

Wrong. Sentry over Shazam is the majority opinion here, Shazam is the weak link. A very powerful weak link mind you.

Still waiting for any explanation whatsoever.

Keep waiting. I don't need to explain myself to you. These are fake fights, stop taking them so seriously.

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deactivated-5e291995a18d6

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The biggest threat is Martian Manhunter's telepathy, which I don't believe either Silver Surfer or Shazam can defend against. But i think that Silver Surfer and Shazam may take a slight majority.

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the_red_viper

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#39 the_red_viper  Moderator

@jmarshmallow: well Terrax is around 75% speed of light, SS is +1000x speed of light (all speed wise). And we've both seen enough SS VS Flash threads and topics to know SS has insane combat speed. And I mention speed because Sentry used speed to defeat Terrax (dodging his blasts and grabbing his axe mid swing), he can't do that against SS. Maybe to SHAZAM but not SS.

He blocked that blast with his hand in the scan I gave you earlier. But, J'onn is also there to help Sentry. I believe he could quickly take care of Billy with telepathy. Would it work on Surfer as well? I dunno.

Also, Sentry isn't at all slow, far from it. He caught a bullet fired from The Punisher's huge-ass Skrull sniper rifle before it hit Norman Osborn, then crossed 4 miled to get to Frank in less than a second. I'm not saying he's as fast as Surfer, but he's not helpless either.

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Jmarshmallow

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#40  Edited By Jmarshmallow

@cgoodness: 1000x the speed of light? Are you serious? I don't believe it....

If that's true, then wow.

I really do hate Silver Surfer...

Jmarshmallow

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Cream_God

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#41  Edited By Cream_God

@the_red_viper: SS will fight around Sentrys and MMs speed level, but he won't allow them to gang up on SHAZAM, but SHAZAM is no slouch either. I dont know if SHAZAM can resist telepaths like MM, but SS has shown to be able to resist powerful telepathic attacks. Theirs a scan of him resisting Moondragon that I'm trying to find.

Edit: here's part of it (think MD has the mind gem also)

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67877/1912158-crusades_03_34.jpg

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Cream_God

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#42  Edited By Cream_God

@jmarshmallow: im actually going to check that real quick, it's something along those lines though.

Edit: travelled half a million light years in a couple (2 or 3 seconds). If Someone wants to do the math please lol

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/3076/silversurfervol3006us8.jpg

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SheenLantern

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@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

@giantsfan576 said:
@sheenlantern said:

@green_skaar said:

Sentry over Shazam

?

He picks Marvel characters over anyone no matter what

Wrong. Sentry over Shazam is the majority opinion here, Shazam is the weak link. A very powerful weak link mind you.

Still waiting for any explanation whatsoever.

Keep waiting. I don't need to explain myself to you. These are fake fights, stop taking them so seriously.

*Sigh*

Fanboys...

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giantsfan576

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@green_skaar: You ALWAYS choose Marvel assuming Marvel is in the fight.

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RetconCrisis

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#45  Edited By RetconCrisis

@jmarshmallow said:

@dratini1331: You raise a very good point. However, I always recall regular Sentry being a bit of a jobber.

Didn't he even get KO'd by She-Hulk?

Jmarshmallow

He also made Terrax look like a little girl, which is a feat to be reckoned with. I think he can get the better of Billy.

Manhunter's telepathy, intangability, and all his other cool Martian powers can give him an edge over Surfer (perhaps not a big one though), and he can also keep SS bus just enough for Sentry to deal with Billy then they can double-team Surfer.

I think I'll give it to team 1 like 6.5/10.

Yeah, that's how I think it'll roll out too.

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Chibio

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Some people are overhyping Sentrys win over Terrax in this thread way too much. I think that Terrax is a force, but the way Sentry defeated him is kinda nothing special in my opinion. He stopped his attack and broke the axe. Terrax is a 90 tonner or something, so Sentry is of course much stronger and breaking the axe apart is not an impossible feat. Terrax broke Silver Surfers board. It happens. I still give this fight to team 1 due to the Sentry, who had much more impressive fights. If he encounters Shazam, then I clearly don't see Shazam standing up to someone, who dishes out enough damage to destroy planets. And not even that, Sentry dished out so much damage in his fight against WW Hulk that it burned WW Hulk out! That is an insane feat! WW Hulk turned back to Bruce Banner, because he spent all of his gamma radiation or rage or whatever to heal the damage Sentry was dishing out. I honestly don't see Shazam standing up to that in the slightest. Sentry is a legit threat, if he is not jobbing for the sake of the plot.

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dondave

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Team 1

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Killemall

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I dunno... was it?

I'm not an expert on Sentry. But here are the scans, suppose you'd know.

I am pretty well versed with Sentry, anything i can help you out there?

The scan you posted are of course genuine, not out of context or anything, and are from Sentry vol 2 # 1 and the point as explicted stated by Paul Jenkins was to show "just how bloody brilliant the Sentry really is".

He has other feats as well, destroying a moon as a side effect of his fight against the Collective, apparently releasing enough energy to destroy worlds against Genis, nearly killing everyone on Earth as a side effect of his fight with World War Hulk (What If World War Hulk # 1, actually shows what would have happened if Sentry didnt stop), a fight between Sentry and Void was said to have potential to kill everyone on Earth, he also overpower Blue Marvel who was strong enough to be strolling around with a city size asteroid and nearly breaking moon in 2 with but 1 hit.

Sentry has feats, i am a skeptical person so i am not going to say he is leagues and bounds beyond Billy, but he sure as hell is up there with him in terms of power and a good case can be made for him actually being superior.

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Chibio

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@the_red_viper said:

I dunno... was it?

I'm not an expert on Sentry. But here are the scans, suppose you'd know.

I am pretty well versed with Sentry, anything i can help you out there?

The scan you posted are of course genuine, not out of context or anything, and are from Sentry vol 2 # 1 and the point as explicted stated by Paul Jenkins was to show "just how bloody brilliant the Sentry really is".

He has other feats as well, destroying a moon as a side effect of his fight against the Collective, apparently releasing enough energy to destroy worlds against Genis, nearly killing everyone on Earth as a side effect of his fight with World War Hulk (What If World War Hulk # 1, actually shows what would have happened if Sentry didnt stop), a fight between Sentry and Void was said to have potential to kill everyone on Earth, he also overpower Blue Marvel who was strong enough to be strolling around with a city size asteroid and nearly breaking moon in 2 with but 1 hit.

Sentry has feats, i am a skeptical person so i am not going to say he is leagues and bounds beyond Billy, but he sure as hell is up there with him in terms of power and a good case can be made for him actually being superior.

What's your take on the idea that Sentry was doing so much damage to WW Hulk that Hulk had to spent all of his gamma radiation to heal the damage and that's what reverted him back to Bruce Banner, while Sentry spent all the solar radiation in his body, which reverted him back to Bob Reynolds? And from what I've seen it looks like Sentry was depowered in that fight, which would make that feat even more impressive. Some Hulk fans like to say that Hulk was holding back during the entire event, but I don't see the Hulk holding back his healing factor, which most likely did overtime to heal Sentrys damage. I have never seen Hulk reverting back from too much damage and especially not such a powerful version like the WW Hulk. I really don't see Shazam standing a chance against such an amount of damage.

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Bezza

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Hulk said later on he was holding back. The sentry v hulk fight was a bit stupid really, because sentry just chose to slug it out with the worlds most powerful slugger! If he had come in and used all his speed and powers, he should have been able to take the fight.

However, I'm intruiged that Shazam is the weakest link. By that logic then, Superman would be if he joined this battle instead of Shazam?