Mandrakk & CA Superman vs Scathan & Protege

no one wanna comment?

T1

Anyone from Team 1 solo.

No level of Reality Warping matters against Monitors. Mr. Mxyzptlk has the infinite power of Imagination and he still cannot touch the weaker Monitors. Moreover, he is unable to open a doorway to go visit them in the 6th Dimension.

Gallery

Protege's ability to copy infinite power sets is a meme and fabrication. He came to an abrupt halt as soon as Scathan The Approver appeared and denied him his powers.

Scathan disaproves of this thread. Protege copy Scathan's powers then the CA and Mandrakk team and stomp..

@owenzane: @michaeljulius: Tbh if they have enough feats scathan and protoge has the potential and powerset to surpass beyonder and molecule Man

Don't ya agree

@kevinfeige:

If one believes that Scathan The Approver ascended in the same manner that Taimut did, then yes, absolutely. Scathan is neigh infinite degrees above Beyonder and Molecule Man.

Either Scathan or Protege solo.

Soratoumiga, just before your comment and after mine, there were 9 votes all 100% in favor of team one. After your comment, 3 voted for team 2 in less than the time it took me to edit my comment and noticed that you posted.

Scathan and Protege are very strong reality warpers, they aren't touching beings that can consume fictions and who defeated God already.

@michaeljulius:

Soratoumiga, just before your comment and after mine, there were 9 votes all 100% in favor of team one. After your comment, 3 voted for team 2 in less than the time it took me to edit my comment and noticed that you posted.

What are you saying?

It's not hard to figure out what I am implying here. I had this page open and refreshed it shortly after your comment, moments later, 2 more votes in favor of team 2. So fast, that I didn't have time to go back and edit the comment I posted before yours. What do you think I am implying? At least try to be more subtle with your vote manipulation.

I'll chalk that up to a coincidence then because I don't want to argue with you. Despite this thread looming at 9 votes for over 12 hours before your first comment.

@michaeljulius: It's not really hard to understand that this is a site with hundreds of members. Any of them could have voted for team 1 or 2, during that time period. Stop accusing me of shit you can't prove, it makes you seem even more petty than you already are.

@michaeljulius: Protege just copy CA Superman and Mandrakks powers and destroy them.

Scathan disaproves and beat them both.

Done and done. Either way team 2 easily distroy them both. Stop with the CA and Mandrakk wank please-

@michaeljulius: dude we all use alts

If you think you are right ( which I don't think you always are but that's another story )

Stick with your claims show some confidence

DC fans need to stop fighting among each other, especially the camp of vertigo cosmology and the camp of morrison/snyder cosmology

and if you guys wanna fight it out at least take care of marvel fanboys first

@byondeon:

Mandrakk eats the entire Marvel fiction for breakfast. Stop with the Marvel wank please -

@byondeon: True. CAS wank is getting out of hand.

Actually I'm also starting to think there's no point fighting over the cosmology especially in a community like this where the users just don't want to accept facts. The debates are just going to continue forever.

But at the same time there are people like Soratoumiga who just go on downplaying TR and Mandrakk everywhere even where it is obvious that they will win , for example this thread . If they were to stop their trolling , may be we can stop the cosmology debate for now.

Team 2

for the record I think Team 1 wins as well

@owenzane: I know you didn't reply to me, but wrong. Team Marvel stomp. Either solo. The DC team can't do anything to the Marvel team considering that they can only affect the DC universe. Outside of anything DC, they are powerless.

I know you try to get my attention, but wrong. Team DC stomp. Either solo. The Marvel team can't do anything to the DC team considering that they can only affect the Marvel universe. Outside of anything Marvel, they are powerless.

See what I did there? Do you understand the premise of vs forum is that all powers apply in inter companies battles? Considering you having 3000 posts I assume you'd be figure that one out by now

Team 2

> cas wank is out of hands

> wanks endless phantom stranger wanda basically every magic character based on their suits

the dc fandom is arguably way more interesting to watch

its time for all of you sit down and make a proper cosmology

@kevinfeige: Plenty of evidence, but no level of objective data matters when there is favoritism this powerful. Pick a topic or ask for specific evidence and I'll post it and how it objectively trumps Scathan and Protege.

@michaeljulius: oooo then the last one

@michaeljulius: i wanna know why you think thoght robot is

1 above the endless

2 above lucifer and Micheal

3 above the presence himself

why

I made a bad edit, what was the last thing? Lol....

@michaeljulius: i asked a new question lol

All is detailed here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/final-crisis-explained-2045835/

Why they are above The Angels and The Presence

In an earlier issue of Final Crisis, The Spectre and the Radiant are said to be unable to be consumed or die unless The Presence/God dies first.

Just one issue later, both The Spectre and The Radiant are dead. Rox Ogama, possessed by the mind of Mandrakk, speaks of mortally wounding God and the Defenders of God. This isn't coinsidence and random text. They set this up in Issue 6 titled Final Crisis Revelations. Mere pages later, both of them are dead and gone and a Monitor speaks of God and his servants.

Moments after Nix Uotan arrives, he summons the Pax Dei Angels of The Presence and they want revenge. Revenge for what? Why are they so upset? Ill let you decide.

Why they are above the Endless

Starting with the Cosmic Map, all of the Endless are cited as inferior to Limbo, of which Nil is still above. All of the Endless, even The Dreaming and Morpheus are listed in clear text as below Monitors in power.

Furthermore, The Dark Knight Metal series goes out of its way to show you that Monitors are responsible for Creation and not anything related to The Presence. Here, Dream of the Endless confirms The Presence did not make Creation.

Continuing, Dream of the Endless also cites that his entire Dreaming is being burned by Barbatos and he cannot stop him. In fact, he cannot step into The Dark Multiverse and requires Superman and Batman to go in his place.

At the very end of Dark Knight Metal, the heroes get a sample of Element X, which is Monitor technology and the same Element X 10th Metal from Final Crisis, which powered the Miracle Machine that Superman used to wish for a happy ending.

Superman and his team use Element X to reset and undo the current story playing out with Barbatos. Dream of the Endless becomes collateral damage and is lost when Element X is activated and used. He simply vanishes and never showed up again in DC Comics. It wasn't until 2019's new Vertigo publications that Dream appears in his own new Sandman titles. Element X erases Dream of the Endless at the end of The Metal series.

Grant made an oopsie and corrected it later. This map came out in 2008 and in 2014's Multiversity, Grant retcons Destiny and puts Fate up there. This is because Dr. Fate is his favorite DC character. The concept of Fate (not Nabu, but the concept of Fate itself) is what is up there and not Destiny.

Grant confirms this in an interview when he says The Endless are still concepts of an even higher metaconcept of themselves.

@michaeljulius:

And you forgot to mention the most important part.

The part where it said that the "void is an aspect of Presence" is not actually the Overvoid but the space between Presence's creations. Since that is the argument usually people spam to lowball TR.

That is a lot of objective information for the opposition to completely ignore.

Toss on this too, Monitors popping in and out of the DC Comic Book while toting another fictive God.

Remember, Grant Morrison said that Ultra Comics is the sum of his own fiction, the sentient comic book, he is another fictive God.

Nix decides to investigate and literally dives into DC Comics, while bringing another fictive God with him because only he can bring another Fiction into yet another Fiction.

Uotan went from his world where DC/Vertigo is just a fictional comic book, swan dived into DC Comics from his desk, and toted another God with him. This makes Monitors some of the strongest fictional characters of all time. (And just remember, this is just one lower tier Monitor. All of them combined were infinitely less powerful than Mandrakk and The Cosmic Armor)

This is why some users on the Internet support Monitors as far, far above any God in any fictive publication. Monitors exist outside of Fictive works, that is their narrative. They Monitor Fictions. They consume them and feed on them, and DC Comics is a place that a Monitor can jump into and exit any time they wish.

Team 2.

I'll also add :

Analyze the map. Notice that Heaven ( which contains the Silver City , the first place Presence built , as well as the home to the angels and Spectre ) , dream ( lands of the Endless ) , Apokilips ( True Darkseid's home , who was supposed to be "Outerversal" ) , New Genesis ( home of the so called powerful New Gods ) are all in the Sphere of the Gods. And the "void" which was supposed to be an aspect of the Presence is actually the space between his creations , ie. Apokilips , Heaven , Dream , etc. He created all of them. So , he's not beyond the Monitor Sphere. Hope that makes things clear.

@mountacnologia: None of that matters though. That's objective information and that isn't how some people in the world debate. Some lack the ability to designate the difference between subjective and objective statements, I find the psychology behind this type of debating absolutely fascinating.

@michaeljulius:

No , I just bothered to because that person genuinely asked and wanted to know. I was replying to KevinFiege.

@mountacnologia: Fair enough, I thought the left side of the map was enough though in my first statement, I posted that in the Endless spoiler area.

So featless and featless fight featless and a dude that can copy the featless characters

@professorrespect:

Mandrakk/CAS Feats

• Is Hyperstory and can ignore the author of DC Comics, immune to retcon
• Is The Narrative of Superman
• Maps Infinite Multiverses and universes and sifted Bleed from all of them to Nil
• Contained the Infinite DC Orrery in his home inside of a large tube structure
• Can attack with the power of Narrative itself
• Infinite Adaptation to any threats
• Murdered The Presence
• Murdered The Radiant
• Murdered The Spectre
• Reset an entire continuity and rewrote the ending of Superman to be continued
• Talked about lower class Monitors who are responsible for lesser Multiverse creations under them
• Are the direct superiors to Monitors that outclassed Dream of the Endless
• Exist outside of the Source Wall and directly in the physical comic book page
• Invaded Heaven and upset the Pax Dei Angels enough to want revenge
• A being who merged with everything ever retconned in DC, the ultimate reality warper, was still nothing by comparison and said the CAS is the only chance they have to stop Mandrakk.
• Powerful enough to damage and break Nil, which is a conceptual space beyond DC Retcon in a literal sense of the word
• Remade Nil after it was deleted
• Tanks the full power of Creation and Destruction of the DC Multiverse and is completely unaffected by it
• Scared Barbatos and the ultimate concept of Destiny and Fate into mere whispers about his name.
• Could not be stopped by any forceful means and the only way to stop him truly was to ask Overvoid to rewrite what food he likes, so that he can stop attacking and give up because there is no reason to fight for food he doesn't want anymore.
• Exists above the Monitor Spheres Cosmic Forge and generated new spaces that are of a higher conceptual prowess than even that.
• Was said to represent the DC Editors in a literal manner
• Was called the extension of the true God of DC and its curious/heroic side
• Removed Thoughts and Concepts (other Monitors) from existence with a wave of his hand
• Can remote pilot the minds of others all the way from The Overvoid, the physical comic book
• Is more powerful than another fiction that became sentient, and that was called another God in DC.
• Could still feel out time while it was frozen all the way down in the Orrery, from Nil, and notice Lois's heartbeat suspended in time
• Invaded DCU without anyone else noticing or trying to stop him
• Has ships that scrub continuua for him because he is lazy
• Can contain Bleedspace and hold it, which is the fluid of narrative itself, which contains Hypertime. Hypertime is all of DC Canon and non-canon Crossover stories, all contained by Bleedspace and only they can contain it.
• Detailed every piece of the Orrery not only with the physical structure, but EVERY CANON and timeline of DC that exists, including the Crossovers with Marvel.

CV really needs a purge.

Protege doesn't copy powers at first glance .. he has to see you use them

@soratoumiga: agreed...