The bottom right pic isn't actually a picture of Stryver, she just doesn't have any actual pics. Here's her Respect Thread since she's super unknown - link.
@sainguinexshadow: You think Noble 6 has the feats to take them by himself? That’s quite a claim.
To give them a run for there money yes, see the epilogue to Lone wolf where he takes on waves of Covenant and eventually gets overwhelmed but literally doesn't give a shit a group of Zealots had to gank him and Plasma sword him several times to kill him.
I don't know nearly enough about Halo to give a solid answer, but Mandos are beast and with perfect teamwork and I believe gear advantage, they could take it.
Wow, this is a difficult one. I gotta say... I'm currently leaning towards the Spartans. The area that the Spartans start at give them a tactical advantage, I think, especially with Jun on their side. I'd be very worried about one of the Mandalorians getting sniped right off the bat. This isn't even taking into account the advantage they have in numbers. Honestly, I don't see what's preventing most of the Spartans from hunkering down in the building right as the battle starts. At that point, any battlefield advantage the Mandalorians would've had gets negated and they'd be forced to fight them in close quarters, which would not be good for the Mandalorians, even with Boba's lightsaber and Vizsla's Darksaber.
However, just thinking generally, all the members of the Mandalorian team are better equipped, will arguably display better team work, and have handled much worse individually. Since all members of Noble team will have more or less standard projectile weapons, it's definitely possible that this isn't nearly enough to overwhelm them. I mean, at least half of the members of the Mandalorian team at one point or another held the title of "Most Feared Hunter in the Galaxy." How hard can this be for them, y'know? I also personally believe that, while Spartans generally display better physical stats than Mandalorians, the latter display more skill on average so maybe this turning into CQC wouldn't be so bad.
I will say that if Noble team got Spartan Lasers, Covenant/Forerunner weapons, etc., they'd stomp for sure.
Casualties on both sides, but the Mandos should take it due to tech/gear Advantage.
You don't think numbers and arguably teamwork advantage would help the Spartans out? (I put in perfect teamwork in the OP but really meant to say no-infighting..)
Wow, this is a difficult one. I gotta say... I'm currently leaning towards the Spartans. The area that the Spartans start at give them a tactical advantage, I think, especially with Jun on their side. I'd be very worried about one of the Mandalorians getting sniped right off the bat. This isn't even taking into account the advantage they have in numbers. Honestly, I don't see what's preventing most of the Spartans from hunkering down in the building right as the battle starts. At that point, any battlefield advantage the Mandalorians would've had gets negated and they'd be forced to fight them in close quarters, which would not be good for the Mandalorians, even with Boba's lightsaber and Vizsla's Darksaber.
However, just thinking generally, all the members of the Mandalorian team are better equipped, will arguably display better team work, and have handled much worse individually. Since all members of Noble team will have more or less standard projectile weapons, it's definitely possible that this isn't nearly enough to overwhelm them. I mean, at least half of the members of the Mandalorian team at one point or another held the title of "Most Feared Hunter in the Galaxy." How hard can this be for them, y'know? I also personally believe that, while Spartans generally display better physical stats than Mandalorians, the latter display more skill on average so maybe this turning into CQC wouldn't be so bad.
I will say that if Noble team got Spartan Lasers, Covenant/Forerunner weapons, etc., they'd stomp for sure.
If the Spartans hunkered down in the building and tried to bait the Mandos into a close quarters fight, wouldn't that be easier to use their larger weapons like jetpack missiles, wrist rockets, or concussion missiles, considering the cramped quarters and likelihood of further injury from collateral damage?
Will the superior gear of the Mando's be able to make up for their number disadvantage, as one of them will have to go 2v1? And don't you think standard projectile weapons would be enough to overwhelm Jango or Vizsla in a 2v1 situation (if they fall into that situation) considering they aren't wearing beskar armor?
There's no way I'm giving them Forerunner weapons. Lol
Could go either way. Also there's no difference between Spartan IIs and IIIs other than they aren't the most peak humans/intelligent humans for the program. Otherwise they are exactly the same just given different armor.
@merulezall: Spartan-IIs had all the physical augmentations and bone enhancements, which is why some of them died from the process. Spartan-IIIs only had about half of those enhancements because the UNSC didn't want to spend as much on them as they did for the II-s and they didn't train as long. Spartan-IIs weren't the most peak human either because they were chosen as children.
I think the teamwork of the Spartans is a factor, and would help them balance out against the Mandos gear. Its just the gear i feel should enable them to take out the Spartans first.
Also on a point you said in the above post:
Will the superior gear of the Mando's be able to make up for their number disadvantage, as one of them will have to go 2v1? And don't you think standard projectile weapons would be enough to overwhelm Jango or Vizsla in a 2v1 situation (if they fall into that situation) considering they aren't wearing beskar armor?
Since the Mandos have disruptors, and at least one of thems in Beskar. They should be more than capable of making up for their number disadvantage.
And on the second point, Jango and Pre have Durasteel armour which is like you implied not as strong as beskar. But nonetheless Durasteel is used in spaceship manufacturing, walls, blast doors etc... It is still a formidable armour against projectile weapons, since the projectiles im assuming bullets? would need to penetrate the durasteel plating, which normally can survive glancing shots from blaster.
@thevivas: The III's had better enhancements and possibly better physicals. The SPI armour didn't enhance them but they were still able to take Elites etc etc. Despite Sangheli armour also providing strength enhancements.
Gamma company is definitely superior due to the "trump card" Kurt snuck into their enhancements which boosts their physicals immensely by sacrificing higher brain functions (They need regular doses of a counter agent to function).
But none of Noble are from Gamma IIRC they're from Alpha and Beta.
@merulezall: Spartan-IIs had all the physical augmentations and bone enhancements, which is why some of them died from the process. Spartan-IIIs only had about half of those enhancements because the UNSC didn't want to spend as much on them as they did for the II-s and they didn't train as long. Spartan-IIs weren't the most peak human either because they were chosen as children.
Let me rephrase, from what I could understand from halo. The only difference was the process was way more effective and refined and thus again the same process as Spartan IIs, but maybe I could be wrong.
Also when i mean peak human, I meant they picked the best kinds of those worlds and so on and picked them as spartans.
@greysentinel365: I don’t remember them having better physicals at all. I just remember most of the IIIs were teens and were given enhancements that weren’t as expensive or potent I guess would be the word because Ackerson or whoever funded the program didn’t want to create another batch like the IIs since they would be used more on suicide missions and stuff. It’s been awhile since I read Ghosts of Onyx though.
@merulezall: From what I remember from Ghosts of Onyx, the enhancements spent on the IIIs was cheaper and less dangerous than he IIs because they didn’t want to spend all that money to make them indestructible or undefeatable because most Spartan-III ops were basically suicide ones anyway. That’s why they were able to train a lot more than the IIs in less amount of time.
As he read he started to grasp the opportunities and challenges of this new program. The new bioaugmentations were a quantum leap ahead of those he had received. There were lower projected wash-out rates.
Ghosts of Onyx
He implies the augmentations are just plain better.
There's also stuff like this
The SPARTAN-IIIs moved with speed and reflexes no Covenant could follow. They dodged, snapped necks and limbs, and with captured energy swords they cut through the enemy until the field ran with rivers of gore and blue blood.
Ghosts of Onyx
Unsuit-augmented S-III's can move faster than the Covenant (which would include armour empowered Elite's) could follow.
S-II's have repeatedly struggled with Elite's despite being empowered by their armour.
And
She spun and saw a ghostly figure, moving toward her— faster than any human could move. Kelly sidestepped, grabbed the arm, twisted. Her opponent reverse-twisted and countered the lock. Whatever it was, it wasn't human; otherwise Kelly would have ripped its human arm from the socket. Her opponent twisted her wrist and escaped from Kelly's grip.
Ghosts of Onyx
An S-III (Holly) is able to briefly engage Kelly. The fastest Spartan.
Keep in mind that
1. The SPI armour the S-III was wearing does not augment their physicals.
2. The Mark V Kelly was wearing did augment her physicals.
3.
Kelly, in contrast, had taken the longest to recover. She stood in the corner with her arms crossed over her chest. John had thought she wasn’t going to make it. She was still gaunt and her hair had yet to grow back. Her face, however, still had its rough, angular beauty. She scared John a little, too. She was fast before . . . now no one could touch her if she didn’t allow it.
The Fall of Reach
None of the S-II's could touch Kelly. This speaks volumes.
The S-III's procedure were just better. They allowed them to preform on par with Elites an S-II's despite not wearing empowerment armour.
To address Kurt's trump card.
He took a deep breath and said, "Very well. The neural mutation for the SPARTAN-IIIs alters their frontal lobe to enhance aggression response. In times of extreme stress it makes them nearly immune to shock, able to endure damage not even a SPARTAN-II could."
"Like Dante?" Dr. Halsey said. "Still moving when he should have been in a coma?"
Ghosts of Onyx
What happened to Dante?
Dante brought up the rear, limping into the room, one hand holding his side. He stood straight and saluted Kurt.
"Sir," he said, "I think I got nicked." Dante's bio signs flatlined and he collapsed.
Kurt dropped to Dante's side and unlatched his SPI chest piece. He'd seen him grazed by plasma on his left side, and sure enough, there were second- and third-degree burns there that had boiled off the liquid-ballistic layer. Under his arm and across his chest a half dozen needier shards had lodged and detonated. The bones of his rib cage were exposed, and deeper, black congealing blood pooled.
Ghosts of Onyx
Basically reduced to an immolated pin cushion and still runs up and salutes.
Now mind you this only applies to Gamma S-III's. But the larger point stands. The S-III's augs are better than the II's. And by quite a margin.
@greysentinel365: Those are well and nice, but I think we’re on different pages here. The enhancements the IIIs received was better because it didn’t leave so many of the Spartans dead or unable to serve like the IIs’ treatment did. That’s what Kurt is saying in the first quote.
I’d need to reread the whole passage for the second quote myself, but I hope you’re not trying to suggest that IIIs, at least in Gamma’s case, are faster than IIs.
The quote about Kelly doesn’t really prove much. She reacted to Holly from behind and Holly manages to counter the block and escape her grip. I mean I see where you’re going with it, but it’s not that impressive as blitzing Kelly, which would make the quote about her being the fastest Spartan-II relevant.
I think we’re looking at this from two different point of views. When you say the IIIs has *better* augmentation than the IIs, I think what you really mean is they were safer, cheaper, and a more advanced version of enhancements that doesn’t make them the physical peers of the IIs but allows them to fight practically even with them and achieve the same results, plus they can take more damage and keep fighting for a certain amount of time thanks to the Trump Card. When I say they didn’t receive “better” enhancements, I mean the IIIs aren’t as strong physically as the IIs or as durable since they didn’t have their bones enhanced, not that the enhancements themselves weren’t better (because Kurt has gone through it and wanted better for the IIIs while also making sure not to cut corners).
They were just plain better IMO. But if you haven't gone through the source material in a while and want to leave it here it's fine.
I’d need to reread the whole passage for the second quote myself, but I hope you’re not trying to suggest that IIIs, at least in Gamma’s case, are faster than IIs.
If both are out of armour then yes I believe they are given their performances against the Covenant
The quote about Kelly doesn’t really prove much. She reacted to Holly from behind and Holly manages to counter the block and escape her grip. I mean I see where you’re going with it, but it’s not that impressive as blitzing Kelly, which would make the quote about her being the fastest Spartan-II relevant.
The point was that she could touch Kelly at all. Despite Kelly having her speed increased by over 5x and Holly being at base.
When I say they didn’t receive “better” enhancements, I mean the IIIs aren’t as strong physically as the IIs or as durable since they didn’t have their bones enhanced,
The three's got the same juice as the S-II's just better. You can compare word for word.
1. Carbide ceramic ossification:advanced material grafting onto skeletal structures to make bones virtually unbreakable. Recommended coverage not to exceed 3 percent total bone mass because of significant white blood cell necrosis. Specific risk for pre- and near-postpubescent adolescents: skeletal growth spurts may cause irreparable bone pulverization. See attached case studies.
2. Muscular enhancement injections: protein complex is injected intramuscularly to increase tissue density and decrease lactase recovery time. Risk: 5 percent of test subjects experience a fatal cardiac volume increase.
3. Catalytic thyroid implant:platinum pellet containing human growth hormone catalyst is implanted in the thyroid to boost growth of skeletal and muscle tissues. Risk: rare instances of elephantiasis. Suppressed sexual drive.
4. Occipital capillary reversal:submergence and boosted blood vessel flow beneath the rods and cones of subject’s retina. Produces a marked visual perception increase. Risk: retinal rejection and detachment. Permanent blindness. See attached autopsy reports.
5. Superconducting fibrification of neural dendrites:alteration of bioelectrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. Three hundred percent increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. Risk: significant instances of Parkinson’s disease and Fletcher’s syndrome.
Fall of Reach
Compared too.
Holly shifted. The bio monitors showed a spike in her blood pressure and temperature. Tiny blisters appeared on her arms and she scratched at them. They filled with blood and then quickly smoothed into scabs.
Kurt patted Holly's hand one last time and then went to the infuser and lifted the side panel. Inside were dozens of solution vials.
He squinted, reading off their serial numbers.
He spotted "8942-LQ99" inside the infuser. That was the carbide ceramic ossification catalyst to make skeletons virtually unbreakable.
There was "88005-MX77," the fibrofoid muscular protein complex that boosted muscle density.
"88947-OP24" was the number for retina-inversion stabilizer, which boosted color and nighttime vision.
"87556-UD61" was the improved colloidal neural disunifica-tion solution to decrease reaction times.
There were many others: shock reducers, analgesics, antiinflammatories, anticoagulants, and pH buffers.
Ghost of Onyx
So no. The III's got the same augmentations. Just better. And their performance backs this up.
@greysentinel365: Ah, fair enough. I remembered the IIIs *not* getting some of the enhancements because whoever was finding it didn’t want the same kind of soldier as the Iis and didn’t want to spend that kind of money again, but maybe that was referring to the MJOLNIR suits vs SPI ones. Either way, I think we can agree that the augmentations they received were better cause they were newer and safer on top of everything else.
@thevivas: The Spartan III augs are comparable to Spartan II augs.
Which means in any close quarters battle the Mandos get ripped apart.
The Mandos have some flashy gadgets, but I don't think it's enough to get a win. They have uber powerful grenades and missiles, but the Spartans are insanely fast. If the Spartans lure them indoors or close the distance (which they could do pretty easily seeing as how they sprint as fast as cars) then they can't use those weapons.
@merulezall: From what I remember from Ghosts of Onyx, the enhancements spent on the IIIs was cheaper and less dangerous than he IIs because they didn’t want to spend all that money to make them indestructible or undefeatable because most Spartan-III ops were basically suicide ones anyway. That’s why they were able to train a lot more than the IIs in less amount of time.
Spartan IIIs were made for that yes they were gonna be the newest fodder, but they were still as good as Spartan IIs just didn't have that good of armor and so on as someone else has pointed out.
If the Spartans hunkered down in the building and tried to bait the Mandos into a close quarters fight, wouldn't that be easier to use their larger weapons like jetpack missiles, wrist rockets, or concussion missiles, considering the cramped quarters and likelihood of further injury from collateral damage?
Using their missiles and rockets indoors would be a recipe for disaster, I think. The Spartans can handle explosive/concussive force much better than the Mandalorians. At best, the Mandalorians would merely stun a few of the Spartans while also endangering themselves far more with such proximate explosions. That's not even considering the debris that could further immobilize them. It wouldn't be a good idea for them to use their limited supply of explosives so frivolously. I'd say their best bet would be to use their rockets to break down some of the walls from outside the building to get a clear view of the Spartans, but then you have to consider whether or not that's putting their handful of rockets to good use.
Will the superior gear of the Mando's be able to make up for their number disadvantage, as one of them will have to go 2v1?
I really don't know. In every big battle as balanced as this, there are just too many factors to be able to say anything for sure. It depends on who fights who, how well the teams cooperate, who shoots when and where, etc. It could be that even small, seemingly inconsequential things such as noise pollution might sway the battle one way or another.
I will say that the Mandalorian's gear is crucial to their success. I mean, they're basically coming into this battle with Covenant level tech. If they can properly take advantage of that, I could definitely see them winning this. It'd take some ingenuity, though.
And don't you think standard projectile weapons would be enough to overwhelm Jango or Vizsla in a 2v1 situation (if they fall into that situation) considering they aren't wearing beskar armor?
Well, to clarify, I'm not saying that the Mandalorian team is immune to projectile weaponry. After all, Jun's sniper is projectile based and I did say I was worried about him one-shotting them right from the get-go. However, I always considered blasters from Star Wars to pack much more of a punch than even top level "real world" guns. Considering how the Mandalorians can handle a few hits from run-of-the-mill blasters, I'm sure they could take more than a few direct shots from, say, Carter's DMR (I'm assuming that's what he's wielding). Of course, I doubt durasteel armor would last under continuous fire from 26th century technology. I doubt the Mandalorians would let something like that happen, though.
This doesn't look good for the mandos. Noble team seem to be overall better in gear and armor as well as range(by weapons and users that specialize in them). I see the Spartans has better feats in mental aspects too such as skill and their armor would give them too much of a versatility, physical, durability and regenerative edge. The only advantage the mandos have is the fact they have blasters and carbine with some firepower though few of noble pack more power such as Jorge and Jun. Not mention noble outnumbers the mando which make it a near stomp.
Casualties on both sides, but the Mandos should take it due to tech/gear Advantage.
This is vague, be specific about gear and tech. I don't see them having better gear as most of noble equipped with mjolnir Mark V has regenerative shields which much better durability feats as same armor models from other Spartans can walk away from 50mm cannons and tank fuel rods(can one shot dropships like phantoms). Is there a reason why the blasters would take much of their shields to begin with? Furthermore mjolnir can hold varies armor abilities not to mention the suit already has varies sensors such as thermal, motion track(can trace projectiles as well), VISR and etc. Weapons is more up for a debate but seeing noble taking better range weapons with people that specialized in them I don't see them having an edge in that either. If we're going to talk firepower, i'm pretty sure Jun and Jorge already have the edge there.
Casualties on both sides, but the Mandos should take it due to tech/gear Advantage.
This is vague, be specific about gear and tech. I don't see them having better gear as most of noble equipped with mjolnir Mark V has regenerative shields which much better durability feats as same armor models from other Spartans can walk away from 50mm cannons and tank fuel rods(can one shot dropships like phantoms). Is there a reason why the blasters would take much of their shields to begin with? Furthermore mjolnir can hold varies armor abilities not to mention the suit already has varies sensors such as thermal, motion track(can trace projectiles as well), VISR and etc. Weapons is more up for a debate but seeing noble taking better range weapons with people that specialized in them I don't see them having an edge in that either. If we're going to talk firepower, i'm pretty sure Jun and Jorge already have the edge there.
@dottiestmoon: Most of the mandos here have better gear honestly and 3 of them have been in H2H fights with superhumans (Jedi) with strength and speed matching/better than the Spartans.
Can you point to a novel (not gameplay) canon instance where a Spartan has tanked a direct hit from a fuel rod?
Blasters fire plasma just as Covenant weapons do. And Mark 5 has only been observed to take 2-3 hits before failing.
Most of the mandos here have better gear honestly and 3 of them have been in H2H fights with superhumans (Jedi) with strength and speed matching/better than the Spartans.
Your former is still vague, I've elaborated earlier why I disputed this claim. Most of the Spartans have access a range of armor abilities as well as range sensors.
Armor abilities
Active camo
Go off the grid by engaging Active Camo. Your enemies can’t kill what they cannot see. Stalk, seek, and destroy
-Bungie net
It also users to become invisible by rapidly adapting to its surroundings. Active camouflage also includes a Radar jammer function where it will spawn a multitude of false dots on players' motion trackers within 25 meters. It can sometimes fool even promethean vision in halo 4 gameplay.
Become invincible, but immobile. While you're locked down, Elites can't touch you
-Bungie net
This is an ability that overcharges the player's energy shield, preventing the user from taking any damage. Once depleted, the armor ability discharges a short-range EMP blast effect and pushes players away from the user.
Drop shield
A temporary bubble of protection that heals those fortunate enough to be within its sphere of influence
-Bungie net
The drop shield provides players a protective spherical energy shield that also regenerates their health. In a way, it functions similarly to a bubble shield. The strength of the shield is approximately three times that of a standard energy shielding system
Hologram
Create a virtual doppelganger of yourself to draw enemy fire or lure unsuspecting opponents out into the open
-Bungie net
Hologram, sometimes referred to as Holographic Decoy, is an armor ability that produces an identical holographic copy of the user. Aiming at a hologram deployed by an enemy will make the reticule turn red, making the decoy even more convincing.
Sensors
Motion tracking is picking up an incoming target at extreme range," Cortana warned. "Velocity profile matches the SkyHawk, Chief."He turned—almost lost his balance and had to shift back and forth to keep from falling. There was a dot on the horizon, and the faint rumble of thunder. In the blink of an eye, the dot had wings and the Master Chief’s thermal sensors picked up a plume of jetwash. In seconds, the SkyHawk closed—then opened fire with its 50mm cannons. He jumped. The wooden poles splintered into pulp. They were mowed down like so many blades of grass. The Master Chief rolled, ducked, and flattened himself on the earth. He caught a smattering of rounds and his shield bar drooped to half. Those rounds would have penetrated his old suit instantly.
Halo: Fall of Reach (ebook) pg. 238
Motion tracker(also thermal) picks up a fighter jet on the horizon. Since he's standing on a 10 meter tall pole the distance to the horizon is 11.3 kilometers, if it were on Earth. However, Reach is actually bigger than Earth (15,273 km in diameter compared to Earth's 12,742 km) so the distance should be a bit more. That's pretty crazy range his MT has, for aircraft anyway.
Offical scale comparison between Earth and Reach
twitpic.com/1f46ee
Calculator used to measure distance of the horizon.
"Clear right, Chief," Linda called. She backed out of a small side lobby, rifle raised, and rejoined the cluster of Spartans watching the main entrance and the doors leading onto the lobby. "I’m not picking up any movement on my HUD. And no EM. Nothing at all. It’s deserted."
Halo Glasslands p. 241-242
Mjolnir has electromagnetic motion tracking and can pick up any movement.
Visual Intelligence System, Reconnaissance (VISR) is a collection of augmented reality and sensor fusion systems that selectively filters and optimizes the soldier’s view of the battlefield. In addition, it integrates smart-link targeting feeds and Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) synchronization with UNSC battlenets. - Halo Waypoint
“No problem,” Fred said. He had Damon sync his HUD with the cockpit readouts again and quickly realized the Silent Claw had been spotted—the tactical display showed a dozen hostiles converging on her from all sides.
Mjolnir's HUD can spot dozens of hostiles
Then we have mjolnir's shielding and biofoam that gives the spartans a massive durability and regenerative. If we go the firearms the Spartans again have the edge as Jun and Jorge arguable have better firepower than most of the mandos as well the majority of the team having a range advantage with personal that specialized in it. Such as Jun having the UNSC sniper rifle capable of penetrating heavy vehicle plating(source:halowaypoint) from several kilometers away and Emile having the shotgun best for knocking brutes off their feet.
As for going against Jedi in h2h I'll like to see the the instances you're pointing out, even assuming this is legends begin discussed. I highly doubt these were scenarios where the jedi used their force and the mandos were using dirty tactics with the element of surprise. I'm assuming you're referencing these scenes from Jango Fett: Open Seasons 3:
Gallery
Also another issue is that some of these jedis have limited feats to begin with. Also i want you to point how how these jedi's strength are on pair with spartans at the very minimum? Are you applying these Jedis are multi-tonners. As for speed it depends if you're referring to reaction time or movement. While they're not many feats for the spartan IIIs in reflexes the fact they're Cat 2 spartans, should make it reasonable to power scale them towards IIs as they have the potential to exceed them if not be on pair. Spartan IIs for example are bullet timers with higher end feat of reacting to beam rifles which are hypersonic(nearly mach 11). Personally I think h2h with zealots isn't that far impressive as fighting jedi even when the spartans won the fights majority of the time.
Can you point to a novel (not gameplay) canon instance where a Spartan has tanked a direct hit from a fuel rod?
Even in Mark V these existing feats of spartans tanking fuel rods.
The Shade shook under the force of the incoming fire as the Master Chief clenched his jaw and forced himself to bring the targeting reticle down onto the target. His shield bled energy and began to shriek a shrill alarm.
The Flood 105
His shields had just begun a recharge cycle, feeding off the armor's capacious power plant, when the pair of Hunter aliens burst from cover and lobbed fire at his position. The first blast struck him square in the chest and sent him tumbling backward. The second shot was stopped by a thick trunked tree. A trickle of blood pooled in the corner of his left eye. He shook his head to clear his blurred vision and rolled to his left.
The Flood Page 143
We're talking about the same weapons that can take out dropships
One Hunter eased its fuel-rod cannon around the edge of its impenetrable shields—green energized rounds glowing with deadly radiation—and fired. Fred jumped from cover, his MJOLNIR armor ablaze as if it was burning phosphorus. The Hunter hit him dead center in his chest, a blast that would have destroyed their dropship. His energy shields flared brighter, failed, and Fred crumpled to the floor, his armor smoking. – Ghost of Onyx
Blasters fire plasma just as Covenant weapons do. And Mark 5 has only been observed to take 2-3 hits before failing.
Being plasma is a bit vague, what about KE energy or output rate? Regardless the difference with covenant plasma is that it has EMP effects. Which males sense as double digit kilojoules bolts aren't going to penetrate this shields with kinetic energy alone if it 50mm cannons to do so and close proximity anti-tank missiles to do so.
"A hundred grenades wouldn't have blasted through these doors--but when Covenant plasma grenades detonated, they disrupted electronics and shielding."
Halo: First Strike, page 69
Further more i would like quote or reference to the latter, as i don't recall mjolnir shield failing to 3 bolts if so it'll be inconsistent as hell. I'll would rather question the weapon that fired it, was it a overcharged plasma pistol, concussion rifle or what? Even Arbiter in outdated armor took 13 bolts from a plasma rifle during a cutscene in halo 2 when he battled the heretic. According to halo encyclopedia sangehili combat harness are inferior to mjolnir in shielding.We also have noble 6 taking more than 3 bolts without his armor failing.
This was a banshee mind you which deliverers 5x the power of a plasma rifle since a plasma rifle fire 20-45 kw while the banshee fires 100-250 kw base of what the Halo CE game manual claims.
Casualties on both sides, but the Mandos should take it due to tech/gear Advantage.
This is vague, be specific about gear and tech. I don't see them having better gear as most of noble equipped with mjolnir Mark V has regenerative shields which much better durability feats as same armor models from other Spartans can walk away from 50mm cannons and tank fuel rods(can one shot dropships like phantoms). Is there a reason why the blasters would take much of their shields to begin with? Furthermore mjolnir can hold varies armor abilities not to mention the suit already has varies sensors such as thermal, motion track(can trace projectiles as well), VISR and etc. Weapons is more up for a debate but seeing noble taking better range weapons with people that specialized in them I don't see them having an edge in that either. If we're going to talk firepower, i'm pretty sure Jun and Jorge already have the edge there.
I agree it is vague, next time ill write more
Your argument is easy to dispute and challenge if you post such vague arguments. You're going to need to supply the specifics.
Your former is still vague, I've elaborated earlier why I disputed this claim. Most of the Spartans have access a range of armor abilities as well as range sensors.
OP Specifies standard gear. That's sprint. None of Noble has shown canon preference for any other ability.
Sensors
For starters it's Cortana we are talking about here. For all we know she hacked Reach's satellites to get the boost. Likewise the motion sensors on Mjolnir are very inconsistent. We have instances like these
The Chief dived through the open hatch and rolled to his feet; his motion tracker picked up three targets to his side. He whirled about and saw a trio of Covenant Engineers. He removed his finger from the weapon's trigger. Engineers were no threat.
First Strike
Chief not being to pick up hostiles right to his side.
"Contacts ahead," Joshua whispered. Four blips appeared on his motion sensor. Friend-or-foe tags identified them as UNSC Marines, Company Charlie. Serial numbers flashed next to the men as his HUD picked them out on a topo map of the area.
First Strike
Not being able to detect targets over the hill.
The Spartan nodded to Locklear and marched down the ramp. The Chief wanted them on board the dropship for two reasons. First, if this was a trap and they were all caught out in the open, he wouldn't have time to save them and himself. Second, if the Covenant were here, waiting, then Haverson and the others had to get away and get Cortana back to Earth. He could buy them the time to make it out alive. At the bottom of the ramp, he hesitated as his motion tracker pinged off a single signal. There—thirty meters ahead, just behind a large boulder: The friend-or-foe identification system tagged the contact as neither Covenant nor UNSC.
First Strike
Not being able to pick up a target until within 30m.
In summary. While the sensors may have long range. They have repeatedly been shown unreliable in close quarters. Even with tagged targets.
Also Noble is not equipped with VISR tech. Only night vision. The screenshot you showed is from a specialized Hunter squad with prototype armour.
Then we have mjolnir's shielding and biofoam that gives the spartans a massive durability and regenerative.
Mjolnir's shielding is incredibly inconsistent and it's biofoam systems aren't exactly overly heplful.
If we go the firearms the Spartans again have the edge as Jun and Jorge arguable have better firepower than most of the mandos as well the majority of the team having a range advantage with personal that specialized in it.
Again no. Guns (or slugthrowers) exist in SW and it's been repeatedly shown that blasters are faster more powerful and more accurate. Likewise all of the combatants here posses durasteel armour which is confirmed blaster resistant or beskar armour, which is capable of withstanding hits from lightsaber blades (which resemble Covenant energy swords). Considering said swords have repeatedly cut through Mjolnir? Mando armour>Mjolnir for durability. The only one who might penetrate it outright is Jun. But even that is questionable.
The Slugthrower's main disadvantage is the need for the soldier to carry ammunition: blaster gas canisters and power packs are considerably lighter. It can be difficult to find compatible ammunition since slugthrower calibers vary so wildly. These various primitive weapons are almost never used by modern armies, due to their ineffectiveness against even the weakest of modern armor and their tendency to run out of ammunition at awkward times.
Essential Guide to Weapons & Technology
Besides even the weakest armours in SW are bullet proof. let alone the top tier gear the mandos are wearing,
Heck even Stormtrooper armour joke that it is. Is bullet proof.
The Tuskens began to catch up about the same time they reached the end of the oasis. Han didn't see any Sand People, of course; he simply went sprawling when a slugthrower projectile splattered against his back plate. Leia also went down when a slug caught her in the calf armor. They rolled to their backs and fired in the general direction from which the projectiles were coming.
"You okay?" Han yelled.
"It'll be a terrible bruise," Leia answered.
"But are you okay?"
"I think so," she said. "This armor really works."
"Sure, as long as nobody points a blaster in your direction."
Tatooine Ghost
Other than that Noble is outgunned. With RPG's, wrist rockets, flamethrowers, a multitude of detonators all equally if not more powerful than anything Noble has.
As for going against Jedi in h2h I'll like to see the the instances you're pointing out, even assuming this is legends begin discussed. I highly doubt these were scenarios where the jedi used their force and the mandos were using dirty tactics with the element of surprise. I'm assuming you're referencing these scenes from Jango Fett: Open Seasons 3:
Jango was likewise able to give AotC Kenobi a run for his money. Someone able to move to fast for the human eye to follow and at 30ms per second 13 years pre-prime. (Which is nearly twice as fast as Kelly-087). And kill Komari Vosa.
Pre Vizla was able to duel Maul for a prolonged period. Despite the other having insane speed feats and him using precognition.
Likewise Dao has fought multiple Jedi simultaneously.
Also i want you to point how how these jedi's strength are on pair with spartans at the very minimum?
Read the general thread I linked.
Personally I think h2h with zealots isn't that far impressive as fighting jedi even when the spartans won the fights majority of the time.
Even Jedi padawans deflect hordes of blaster fire.
How fast are blasters?
From his weapon's top barrel, a bluish-white high charged energy beam shot outward and upward. A microsecond after the beam's ignition, a second shot from the lower weapon's barrel rang out. To the two occupants of room 547, the shots were virtually simultaneous. The energy beam produced by the first shot hit the penthouse window three centimeters away from the ambassador's chest, through this hole a lead alloy slug fired from the weapon's barrel sped through, hitting the ambassador.
Taken from Criminal Organizations, Hutts 1, Bresallis 0.
Faster than slugs bare minimum.
In fact
Of course, Den mused, she obviously used the Force to warn her of lasers or particle beam blasts that were about to be fired at her. No one was fast enough to block something traveling at or near lightspeed.
Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows
A Master Unduli favored Form III over the others, even though it was disparaged by some as primarily a defensive discipline. It was true that it had been developed originally as a response to blasterfire and other projectile weapons, but over the centuries it had developed into much more. "Of all the seven forms," her Master had told her, "Form Three, with its emphasis on anticipating and blocking lightspeed energy blasts, requires the greatest connection to the Force. The road is long, but it is worth the journey, for a true master of Form Three is invincible."
Medstar II: Jedi Healer
In fact blasters are stated to be lightspeed in some cases. So the team trading blows with people with the pre-cog and speed to deal with flurries of them is already putting them in Noble's ballpark.
Even in Mark V these existing feats of spartans tanking fuel rods.
Yet there are counter examples of fuel rods 1 shotting Spartans in MK VI
Will spun around.
The Hunter shot him.
Will's energy shield vanished, and the front of his MJOLNIR armor melted. He took a step toward the beast, and collapsed.
Ghosts of Onyx
There's also Grace getting 3 shot by Brute Shots.
He knelt next to Grace. Her biosigns had flatlined. He tried to roll her upright—but there was no need. The detonations he had heard while wrestling the first Brute had been three of their high-velocity grenades... which had blown Grace's midsection apart.
First Strike
I'd still dismiss this on the grounds of inconsistency or John's "luck"
Being plasma is a bit vague, what about KE energy or output rate?
SW is not known for it's numbers in most cases. However Blasters have routinely blown off limbs and in some cases hand guns have blasted doors off their hinges.
He slammed the door with his shoulder, then bounced off.
Locked!
Swearing in six nonhuman languages, Han thumbed the indicator on his weapon up to its highest power, and blasted the door. The proprietor howled in protest, but the Corellian and the Wookiee were already gone.
HST 1: Hutt Gambit
Likewise they've been credited to be able to cut through pretty much anything
A blaster fires a concentrated beam of high-energy particles. In the most powerful blasters, these beams(or bolts) can punch through advanced alloys with relative ease. When used against organic tissue, most blasters cause irreparable damage.
Essential Guide to Warfare
Some descriptions of what bolts do to organics
Though soldiers trapped in a shootout would swear otherwise, blaster bolts themselves carry no heat. But their displacement of matter produced kinetic energy that causes heat. The atmosphere is superheated by the bolts' passage; materials struck by a bolt deform and fuse; and liquids inside bodies instantly change into steam, expanding and doing terrible damage to surrounding tissue.
Essential Guide to Warfare
All of these descriptions are easily on par with regular plasma bolts. Which Mjonir has only been shown to take a few of before going down.
Regardless the difference with covenant plasma is that it has EMP effects.
Everyone here is shielded for EMP regardless. Also the Spartans aren't using Covie tech
Further more i would like quote or reference to the latter, as i don't recall mjolnir shield failing to 3 bolts if so it'll be inconsistent as hell. I'll would rather question the weapon that fired it, was it a overcharged plasma pistol, concussion rifle or what?
Normal plasma bolts apparently.
A new contact on the Pelican’s targeting display appeared—right behind Linda. He had towarn her— A bolt of plasma struck her in the back. Another blot of fire blazed her from the upper decks and splashed across her front. She crumpled—her shields flickered and went out. Two more bolts hit her chest. A third blast smashed into her helmet. “No!” the Master Chief said.
Fall of Reach
Also
A point blank discharge wrecks Chiefs shields
The Master Chief whipped his forearm and elbow over the creature’s wrist and slammed it in the head. For a split second it was stunned and its strength ebbed. John turned the gun into its face—squeezed the firing mechanism. The plasma discharge exploded into the creature. Fire sprayed across its shields; they shimmered, flickered, and dimmed. The energy splash washed over the Master Chief; his shields drained to a quarter. The internal suit temperature spiked to critical levels. But the Elite’s shields were dead.
Fall of Reach
Halo shields in general are just extremely inconsistent.
I outlined an example above
The problem with using the Lone Wolf cutscene is that it's very inconsistent. As are all Covenant shields.
For instance in Fall of Reach Chief hammer blows a spec ops Elite's weakened shields and it does nothing. Yet 6 is able to K.O Zealots in one blow?
Or in Contact Harvest where it takes multiple Soldiers continuous fire to down 1 Brute Minors shields?
It's a very thin basis to try and build scaling from.
Even then the fact that plasma bolts can down them is enough to indicate this teams firepower can. While most of Noble Teams effectiveness in terms of weapons is in doubt
Even Arbiter in outdated armor took 13 bolts from a plasma rifle during a cutscene in halo 2 when he battled the heretic.
He took 8 bolts in the original. And in the anniversary.
OP Specifies standard gear. That's sprint. None of Noble has shown canon preference for any other ability.
Actually most of noble team is equipped with armor lock you see majority of them use it in gameplay, whom are Carter, Emile and Jorge.
In summary. While the sensors may have long range. They have repeatedly been shown unreliable in close quarters. Even with tagged targets.
They're still useful in a gun battle from mid or long range battle, hence giving noble the range and tracking edge. I'm not arguing they're meant for h2h or CQC. You're just nitpicking scenes here with moments of the tracker having a slight issue with friend or foe which wouldn't be the case with other spartan personal as well as tags of unknown people( which can all be presumed enemies). Regardless they knew were there targets were.
Also Noble is not equipped with VISR tech. Only night vision. The screenshot you showed is from a specialized Hunter squad with prototype armour.
Actually Mjolnir users are equipped with VISR according to waypoint. Also citation that the headhunters weren't equipped with Mjolnir Mark V(B) unless that was the prototype you're referring to, which Noble team is equipped with too. I'm pretty sure the headhunters were Cat 2 Spartans like most of noble, hence equipped with the prototype Mark V like Noble team is.
Mjolnir's shielding is incredibly inconsistent and it's biofoam systems aren't exactly overly heplful.
I conclude the latter since i realized this is Mark V but shielding isn't too inconsistent as they're feats such as tanking banshee bolts and fuel rods which are the most consistent feat.
Again no. Guns (or slugthrowers) exist in SW and it's been repeatedly shown that blasters are faster more powerful and more accurate. Likewise all of the combatants here posses durasteel armour which is confirmed blaster resistant or beskar armour, which is capable of withstanding hits from lightsaber blades (which resemble Covenant energy swords). Considering said swords have repeatedly cut through Mjolnir? Mando armour>Mjolnir for durability. The only one who might penetrate it outright is Jun. But even that is questionable.
Are you're trying to use the logic that slugthrowers = UNSC small arms just because of the vague argument that they're ballistics? You're going to need to supply more specifics to use them as a comparison such as velocity, mass or caliber/penetration(KE doesn't always mean penetration is good). Being a ballistic doesn't make them the same. For example 9mm rounds can't penetrate inch of titanium but it's doesn't mean a .50 cal couldn't.
Unlike durasteel, majority of the unsc ballstics have AP rounds unlike slugthrowers hence better penetration, with velocities far above IRL counterparts. I think you're also underrating what low end UNSC firearms alone can do. With what the magnum itself can do:
He ducked the attack and dropped the rifle. He dived, tucked into a roll and came up with his sidearm in his hand. He emptied the clip into the beast. One round blew its left arm off, and the final round made a foot-wide exit wound in the Flood’s back.
- The Flood
as well as AR:
Over the COM channel he ordered, “Switch to shredder rounds.” He changed ammunition and then opened fire—at the floor underneath the enormous creatures’ feet.
Kelly and Fred changed rounds and fired, too.
Marble tiles shattered and the wood underneath splintered into toothpicks.
One of the creatures raised its arm again, preparing to fire.
“Keep shooting,” John yelled.
The floor creaked, buckled, and then fell away; the two massive aliens plunged into the basement below
- The Fall of Reach
Can switch to shredder rounds which can penetrate through a roof composed out of tiles and wood as well as successfully kill two shielded sangehili in the process.
[John] steadied his aim and sighted on the nearest Banshee. Careful not to fire too early, the Spartan waited for the Banshee to come within range and squeezed the trigger. Bullet impacts sparked on the Banshee's hull as his ammo counter dwindled.
The ship shuddered as at least some of the armor-piercing rounds penetrated the fuselage, pulled out of its dive, and started to trail smoke..He crouched, searched the sky for targets, and spotted Banshee number one in the nick of time..The Spartan allowed the enemy aircraft to approach, took a slight lead, and squeezed the trigger again. The Covenant ship ran into the stream of bullets, exploded into flames, and slammed into the cliff wall.
- The Flood page 51-52
MA537 AP rounds can penetrate through the banhsee's armor plating.
I don't think Jun being able to penetrate durasteel or bersker is questionable as UNSC sniper rifles are capable of penetrating through heavy vehicle armor.
Often considered a man-portable cannon rather than a traditional precision-fire weapon, the Sniper Rifle proven track record in neutralizing Insurrectionist and Covenant assets has proven that sometimes an unorthodox approach is the most effective. The key to the Sniper Rifle’s success is its massive 14.5mm round, which fires a high-velocity, armor-piercing, subcaliber dart that can damage even heavily armored vehicles. Against infantry, the round can buckle and collapse all but the heaviest multi-layered shielding systems and still have enough kinetic energy remaining to penetrate standard body armor.
-Halo waypoint
The shotgun and Jorge's machine gun should be in the category of penetrating durasteel or bersker, even if tanking slugthrowers isn't a good argument to suggest the same is applied if the rest of the small arms(Magnums, MA537s and DMRs) . Mind you the former weapon is capable of taking shielding out if not knocking near 1 ton brutes off their feet(also killing them) with a single shot.
The same kinda of brutes(major ranked) with these durability feats:
“By the time he had the LAAG’s rotary barrel up to speed, the lead vehicle was boosting toward him with a throaty roar. Byrne managed a few seconds of sustained fire at the blue-armored alien in the vehicle’s seat, then he dove from the turret. As he rolled onto the hot and sticky asphalt, the Warthog exploded behind him—broke apart in a terrific screech of metal as the alien vehicle’s bladed wheel hit it broadside between the tires.”
- Halo Contact harvest
A Brute Major's shield shrugging off fire from a M41 Light Anti-Aircraft Gun.
“The two militiamen opened fire around the corners of their branching hallways as Byrne sprinted past. Shot-for-shot, their MA5s weren’t as powerful as Byrne’s battle rifle. But what their weapons lacked in muzzle velocity they made up for in rate of fire. With both recruits firing full automatic, the alien’s energy shields began to falter; cyan plasma vented from its joints as the armor struggled to stay charged.”
- Halo Contact harvest
Brute Major (the same one as before) taking up the fire from two MA5Bs as the Brute attempts to charge at two marines in CQC.
Also I like to mention that Emile happens to have a grenade launcher that can blow the mandos to bits with ease. He's seen using it in the early cutscene of Pillar of Autumn.
The last time i check frag grenades(which are the ammunition of the weapon) has this kind of firepower.
As for the for the latter argument about power scaling lightsabers with energy swords. You do realize that there's still prefer feats of tanking fuel rods, 50mm canons, anti-tank missile, banshee fire which are all you're forgetting. Are you're really going to neglect this? Difference is that energy isn't dispersed like that of a shot from them, but a solid kinetic swing that a lightsaber can be. Durability feats for tanking projectiles or ammunition is more relevant in this case. Mind you you realized sangehili in power armor are providing those swings whom are strong than jedi.
Besides even the weakest armours in SW are bullet proof. let alone the top tier gear the mandos are wearing,
Heck even Stormtrooper armour joke that it is. Is bullet proof.
Too bad they aren't comparable to UNSC ballistics. Citation that that carry similar firepower to any UNSC ballistics? Slugthrowers don't have any AP or modified rounds such as FMJ. They're just normal slugs.
I find it very absurd you think tanking slugthrower makes them immune to most ballistic small arms in fiction. Also I wouldn't define tanking slug throwers bullet proof but bullet resistant. I mean Spartans for example shrug off most UNSC small arms but it doesn't mean they're immune to the likes of 50mm cannons and above.
Other than that Noble is outgunned. With RPG's, wrist rockets, flamethrowers, a multitude of detonators all equally if not more powerful than anything Noble has.
True but all of those have very limited ammo which all can be tanked by the spartan IIIs in Mark V mjolnir since they're capable of tanking frag grenades as well fuel rods directly. Their back pack missile is near useless against man sized targets as it have locking capabilities on vehicles. I like to point these weapons have low range as the MM9 rocket has a 25m range with the flamethrower having a 5 meter range:
Gallery
Talking about the flame thrower i think it's useless considering that spartans in Mark V consisting tanking plasma bolt as well as sentinel beams with ease.
In those instances I'm pretty sure the jedi were distracted in battle hence with the element of surprise nor the jedi demonstrated any force abilities during battle so they suppressed themselves. I don't recall jedi receiving augmentation to enhance themselves physically but even so there's no feats to suggest they're on pair with Spartans physically in mjolnir in any case.
or Boba i was referring to his encounters with Rahm Kota, crazed Starkiller clones and exchanges with RotS Obi-Wan.
Non of them are actually real h2h fights or fight he had found head on. At best he threw one punch at Kota for example and clone starkillers are featless fodder.
Jango was likewise able to give AotC Kenobi a run for his money. Someone able to move to fast for the human eye to follow and at 30ms per second 13 years pre-prime. (Which is nearly twice as fast as Kelly-087). And kill Komari Vosa.
You mean during combat speed and not sustain running speed. In that case spartans even without mjolnir already have FTE feats so there's no argument to be made Obi wan can travel nearly twice as fast even in combat.
A pair of them practiced hand-to-hand combat. Captain Keyes could barely follow their motions. They were so fast, no hesitation. Strike and block and counterstrike—their movements were a continuous stream of rapid-fire blurs.
- Halo: The Fall of Reach page 314
The slight click of metal on metal alerted every Spartan in the room. Pistols drew in a blur of motion and rifles leveled at the side hatch as it eased open with a steak
squeak.
- Halo: First Strike page 288
Kelly moved before anyone; she was a blur of motion and stepped in front of Doctor Halsey
Halo: First Strike page 218
- The Master Chief blurred into motion.
Halo: The Fall of Reach page 292
Even if you want to utilize travel speed, Kelly in terms of power scaling is above John whom once ran 65.2mph. Mind you there's some factors with the scene such as John equipped with the Mark V which is heavier and bulkier than any other mjolnir, Reach's gravity being 1.08g and being injured by a missile.
How fast are blasters?
Doesn't tell us a concrete velocity number. Try again
Yet there are counter examples of fuel rods 1 shotting Spartans in MK VI
You mean one outlier compared to the majority of the four other times they've tanked them fine. Even in the same book Fred survived one fine. The most likely case is that Will already took prior damage when h2h with two hunters, hence his shielding would've been drained already.
Fred survives a direct fuel rod that was strong enough to destroy their pelican.
One Hunter eased its fuel-rod cannon around the edge of its impenetrable shields—green energized rounds glowing with deadly radiation—and fired. Fred jumped from cover, his MJOLNIR armor ablaze as if it was burning phosphorus. The Hunter hit him dead center in his chest, a blast that would have destroyed their dropship. His energy shields flared brighter, failed, and Fred crumpled to the floor, his armor smoking. – Ghost of Onyx
John in Mark V survives fuel rod shots twice with 2nd scenario being a direct hit.
The Shade shook under the force of the incoming fire as the Master Chief clenched his jaw and forced himself to bring the targeting reticle down onto the target. His shield bled energy and began to shriek a shrill alarm.
- The Flood 105
His shields had just begun a recharge cycle, feeding off the armor's capacious power plant, when the pair of Hunter aliens burst from cover and lobbed fire at his position. The first blast struck him square in the chest and sent him tumbling backward. The second shot was stopped by a thick trunked tree. A trickle of blood pooled in the corner of his left eye. He shook his head to clear his blurred vision and rolled to his left.
- The Flood Page 143
"When she turned to let off a few bursts in the hunter's direction, the emerald discharge from an assault cannon slammed right into her chest with a deafening roar of static, lifting her off her feet and slamming her onto the ground.
Getting knocked over saved her life, for as she thudded onto her back a second green ray of incendiary plasma blasted directly overhead. With her shields completely knocked out and the HUD shield alert honking a furious warning at her, the second blast would have cut her in half."
- Halo: Evolutions Vol. II "Blunt Instruments", page 28.
There's also Grace getting 3 shot by Brute Shots.
Grace was equipped with SPI armor which is inferior to the Mark V by a long shot. Especially with weaker armor plating and no shields. I don't see the relevance this has in the thread.
SW is not known for it's numbers in most cases. However Blasters have routinely blown off limbs and in some cases hand guns have blasted doors off their hinges.
Blowing off limbs is something covenant plasma side arms can do with more feats impressive such as:
Plasma rifles are capable of blowing up elevator doors in one shot
He raised a Covenant plasma rifle, and as the elevator rose to the next floor, a burst of plasma hit the elevator doors beneath them, blowing them out into the shaft
The Cole Protocol, page 73
Plasma pistol shots a hole through a metal door big enough for 2 grown ODST to jump through.
Same weapon, melts the hull of the Tiara, a space station
Bapap’s trigger finger spasmed as he fell, unleashing a pair of wild shots that splashed against the orbital’s hull. Dadab watched as the bubbling holes quickly filled with the same reactive foam that had just saved his life.
-Halo: Contact Harvest
All of these descriptions are easily on par with regular plasma bolts. Which Mjonir has only been shown to take a few of before going down.
If we use lower end feats of the side arms, probably. Again I've pointed out times where it took more than a few to take out their shields. You seem to overall neglect my arguments and repeat the same thing.
Everyone here is shielded for EMP regardless. Also the Spartans aren't using Covie tech
I don't think you get the point. Your prior argument was that blasters should have the same effect to mjolnir's shielding like covenant plasma bolts do. My counter argument was that covenant plasma weapons have EMP effects to them and aren't just KE. Otherwise they shouldn't be able to penetrate the same armor that can tank fuel rods and 50mm canons. Are you trying to apply a plasma bolt has 1/10th or more times(if a few bolts can fully drain shields) the kinetic energy of a megajoule or more? That would be more absurd, infact that would apply also apply they're much significantly stronger than blasters are. It'll be in the triple digits kilojoules in kinetic energy.
Look at it this way:
Going with an average here, P=VIt=125000x.25xt. Time is an unknown variable. As Work equals power times time, work equals VI essentially (we can ignore time), which gives us a work function of 31.25kJ per shot which is an average. 45 KJ if we high end it.
“Motion tracking is picking up an incoming target at extreme range,” Cortana warned. “Velocity profile matches the SkyHawk, Chief.”He turned—almost lost his balance and had to shift back and forth to keep from falling. There was a dot on the horizon, and the faint rumble of thunder. In the blink of an eye, the dot had wings and the Master Chief’s thermal sensors picked up a plume of jetwash. In seconds, the SkyHawk closed—then opened fire with its 50mm cannons. He jumped. The wooden poles splintered into pulp. They were mowed down like so many blades of grass. The Master Chief rolled, ducked, and flattened himself on the earth. He caught a smattering of rounds and his shield bar drooped to half. Those rounds would have penetrated his old suit instantly.
Halo: Fall of Reach (ebook) pg. 238
Takes "a smattering of rounds" to drop his shield to 50%. Since smattering isn't an exact value I'm going to assume he took 1 hit from each gun (the SkyHawk has 4). No surprise there isn't much info on the 50mm cannons used by the UNSC so I'll use stats from a WWII German 50mm gun, the KwK 39.
Projectile weight - 2.06 kg
Muzzle velocity - 835 m/s
2.06*835*835=1436283
1436283*0.5=718141.
718 KJ per shot, 4 shots = 2.8 MJ, 5.6 MJ to fully break his shields.
I don't think plasma bolts drop mjolnir shielding with KE alone but infact due to EMP effects.
Normal plasma bolts apparently.
This was one instance(most likely inconsistent) despite the fact we don't know what weapon was fired, was it a concussion rifle, turret or what?
A point blank discharge wrecks Chiefs shields
You mean after prior damage take from CQC with the spec ops sangehili. This is what happen when a overcharged plasma pistol hits chief. He continues running with any sign of shield failure.
A red-hot sledgehammer hit him squarely in the back: a plasma pistol on overload. He reeled forward but didn’t lose his balance—and kept running.
Halo: First Strike p. 131
Halo shields in general are just extremely inconsistent
Depends on armor as different models have different durability. But it doesn't mean there isn't consistent feats to look at.
The problem with using the Lone Wolf cutscene is that it's very inconsistent. As are all Covenant shields.
For instance in Fall of Reach Chief hammer blows a spec ops Elite's weakened shields and it does nothing. Yet 6 is able to K.O Zealots in one blow?
Issue here is that Noble 6 is a Cat 2 spartan whom has the potential to be physically stronger than IIs IIRC. Being able to knock out shields more easier wouldn't be out of the question. After all even Olivia during Last Light in Spi armor lifted a limestone boulder as big as her chest and used it as a weapon against sentinels. A boulder like this (2-3 feet square) would weigh 1-2 tons. I also recall Spartan IIIs in SPI armor during GoO going h2h with sangehili.
Even then the fact that plasma bolts can down them is enough to indicate this teams firepower can. While most of Noble Teams effectiveness in terms of weapons is in doubt
I don't think blaster are negligible towards to the shield while being weak against the shields in the worse case. Again the reason why covenant plasma weapons can drain shields the way they can is due to having EMP effects. I don't see why Noble team ballistics should have any problem. Even when excluding some higher ends such as the grenade launcher, Sniper rifle, shot gun and machine gun turret Jorge uses, your argument is solidly base off the fact slugthrowers have been prove ineffective to their most star wars body armor. Despite them being hardly relatable to the UNSC firearms here such as being slugs with no AP rounds for once nor they have any feats to be on in the ballpark. Furthermore i believe the mandos have a lot of openings in their armor such as in joints and limbs of their suits are mostly reinforced flight suits(under armor). It wouldn't be out of the question for any of noble team to attack the under suit areas to incapacitate them easily.
He took 8 bolts in the original. And in the anniversary.
The anniversary is a recton to the original so the point still stands. So the feat he took 13 plasma rifle bolts is more valid.
Watched on 0.25 speed. He took 1 hit to the leg. Then the fall wrecked his shields.
Your latter argument contradicts the former, as if six's shields did drop from the fall, then would should've seen it recovered earlier with the shields emitting. Mostly likely case is that Six shields when jumping off the pelican with shield drained from prior damage from banshee plasma fire.
Good, too bad they aren't comparable to UNSC ballistics. Citation that that carry similar firepower to any UNSC ballistics? Slugthrowers don't have any AP or modified rounds such as FMJ. They're just normal slugs.
Actually, Slugthrowers in SW do have jacketed rounds and other kinds of special ammunition. In fact, most slugthrowers do use the former rounds.
Unless otherwise noted, most slugthrowers use a type of slug or bullet, usually a jacketed shell to deal damage.
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