mandalorian Luke and OWK (amped) Kenobi run a gauntlet

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dark_globe

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#1  Edited By dark_globe  Online
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all out fight , they start 20 meters apart .


round 1: asajj ventress and savage opress

round 2: RoTS kit fisto , TRoS kylo and rey

round 3: SOD maul and RoTS dooku

round 4: rebels ahsoka and RoTS yoda

round 5: RoTS windu and KFV

round 6: OWK vader and RoTS sidious

round 7: RoTJ luke and RoTJ vader

round 8: RoTJ sidious

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Kaore

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I don't buy into Kenobi's performance being the result of an amp, but sure.

Round 1 - Either solo mid difficulty.

Round 2 - Luke can solo high difficulty.

Round 3 - Kenobi beats Maul, Luke beats Dooku. 8/10

Round 4 - Yoda might solo.

Round 5 - Kenobi beats Vader, Luke holds off Mace long enough for Kenobi to join him and together they can win in a close fight. 6/10 to Kenobi & Luke.

Round 6 - Sidious might solo.

Round 7 - The RoTJ duo win 6/10, Kenobi is a bit of a weak link.

Round 8 - Sidious stomps.

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Living162637

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R1: Easy win. Ventress at her peak could be close to Dooku but still a win. Luke could solo

R2: Hard stop. Kylo could already hard press a stronger TLJ Luke, and Rey is his equal. Even the director had to avoid a Kylo/Luke real showdown since he believed it would be realistic that one killed the other

R3: Clear. Luke can probably solo

R4: Luke is stronger than either, so it depends on Obi. This Obi-Wan is just substantially stronger than ROTS Obi, but that isn’t much. I would say they stop. Maybe if we really upscale Luke he could solo

R5: Clear

R6: Clear. in character Vader struggles to Obi at this point. If this was no confliction then they would stop

R7: Stop, Vader surpassed this Obi by ANH and lost his fear of him

R8: Clear, Yoda, Ben, Vader and the narrator himself iterate ROTJ Luke had the skills to take on the Emperor. 5 more years and he should be stronger

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nassergrant19

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#4  Edited By nassergrant19

round 1: asajj ventress and savage opress

Clears

Luke or Kenobi casually solo without their sabers…

round 2: RoTS kit fisto , TRoS kylo and rey

Clears

Same as round 1….

round 3: SOD maul and RoTS dooku

Clears

Considering SOD Maul could be ragdolled by TCW Sidious who scales far below OWK Kenobi/Mando Luke in the force, either give him the TCW S5 Maul treatment. Dooku got stomped in 13 seconds by someone significantly below them….so either kill him in a shorter time.

round 4: rebels ahsoka and RoTS yoda

Clears

Rebels Ahsoka definitely isn’t above the previous two, and she gets taken out fairly quickly by either Luke or Kenobi. ROTS Yoda loses in a great fight to either Luke or Kenobi.

round 5: RoTS windu and KFV

Clears

Luke beats Windu in a decent fight while Kenobi beats KFV in a decent fight.

round 6: OWK vader and RoTS sidious

Clears

Luke beats this Vader in easier than Kenobi did and Kenobi wins against Sidious high-diff due to his force power advantage.

round 7: RoTJ luke and RoTJ vader

HARD STOP HERE Luke beats his younger self high-diff but it takes awhile and allows for ROTJ Vader to gang up on him after he takes out Kenobi.

round 8: RoTJ sidious

Both Luke and Kenobi are negged. If this was GM canon Luke they’d win fairly easily tho.

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BreakingThrones

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#5  Edited By BreakingThrones

@dark_globe Here is a very in depth ( and potentially horribly inaccurate) analysis of these fights if you fancy a long ass read.

I also don't believe that Obi Wan was actually amped, he just no longer was incredibly guilt ridden and tormented by his emotions, he found a reason to fight and this enabled him to let go of his demons and clear his mind so he could focus and do what needed to be done. I think this is his new baseline and is more in line with the how Kenobi was prior to all the trauma he went through, psychologically speaking. I've also heard that Vader used Dun Möch to instill fear and negative emotions in Obi Wan so maybe this was him also overcoming that.

I think their power levels are kind of hard to determine because there is a lot of contradictory view points from writers and information within canon.

I hold the belief that Kenobi in OWK is comparable to his ROTS self but likely a bit stronger in the force and a worse duelist. I would say that he is considerably more powerful in the force but I believe that Sidious did infact weaken his force shields in ROTS so that Dooku could dispose of him via ragdolling. This makes sense to me as Sidious wanted Kenobi dead and out of the way so that he could test Anakin vs Dooku. Obi Wan was also able to match Anakin on Mustafar with the force. If anyone has any insight into this and can tell me that Sidious did no such thing then I will change my mind on that but atm I see it this way:

In the force Kenobi (OWK) > ROTS Kenobi

As a duelist ROTS Kenobi > Kenobi (OWK)

All in all I would definitely say that Kenobi in OWK is a bit superior but I don't think he's quite as powerful as people make out because there are a lot of factors involved in his success vs Vader in OWK.

Now for Mandolorian Luke; Most sources I have seen say that ROTJ Luke= ROTJ Vader. You could argue that Vader was conflicted because it is his son and after all he does return him to the light but as Luke was actually superior when he tapped into the dark side I think that ROTJ Luke= ROTJ Vader holds true. I've seen sources saying that Luke wasn't yet as good as Yoda or Obi Wan with a lightsaber but as this is Mandolorian Luke, he's had 5 years to grow and I think he should be >> ROTJ Vader by this point. How powerful is ROTJ Vader? That's hard to determine exactly, some say he has declined from his prime in Rebels, others say this is his prime based on feats. I would place Mandolorian Luke around the same level as ROTS Yoda/Sidious. He should be able to match them by this point but he could still lose as they have more experience.

So if you wonder about any of my answers to these battles then bear in mind what I just said.

Round 1: asajj ventress and savage opress:

Luke can definitely solo this, Obi Wan may be able to but either way they win 10/10

Round 2: RoTS kit fisto , TRoS kylo and rey:

Again Luke can solo this, Obi Wan probably can (unless I'm really underestimating TROS Rey/Kylo) 10/10

Round 3: SOD maul and RoTS dooku:

Luke is superior to Dooku and Obi Wan will beat Maul. If Luke fights Maul then he will beat him before Obi Wan Vs Dooku is over and then Dooku dies 10/10

Round 4: rebels ahsoka and RoTS yoda

This is the first round that is really difficult to determine, I think Yoda vs Luke could go either way tbh, it will be a long drawn out fight that comes down to either a small mistake on Luke's part due to not being as experienced or Yoda becoming too fatigued and getting overpowered. The determining factor I think is the winner of Ahsoka vs Obi Wan. Ahsoka during Rebels was comparable to Maul, she was able to contend with him during CW season 7 but was slightly inferior. Obi Wan as of ROTS was slightly superior to that Maul imo. There were psychological factors that came into play too but I think ROTS Obi Wan was a bit superior to CW season 7 Ahsoka, he would likely have beaten her 7/10 times or something similiar. Now both fought Vader, Obi Wan fought a weaker Vader who was still half Anakin according to the director of the show and Vader was blinded by his hatred for Obi Wan and Obi Wan was able to get in his head and also use his knowledge and experience against Vader e.g changing to Ataru and targeting his life support system. Ahsoka fought a Vader who whilst only having a few years more growth, was considerably superior. He had killed Anakin more and likely learnt from his loss to Obi Wan and was a more calculated killing machine. Some people even say Rebels was Vader's prime. Ahsoka did lose though and she did lose decisively but so would Obi Wan imo as this Vader would not have the same weaknesses to exploit. Ahsoka did manage to hold her own for a bit and damage his helmet with a cheap shot but she was going to die if not saved. I think all in all that Obi Wan would be able to beat her. I think it would be a close fight but he will be able to defend against an onslaught of Ataru from her with his mastery of Soresu and I believe he will be able overpower her with the force too.

So if this is how the fight is setup then Obi Wan beats Ahsoka after a long fight and helps Luke deal with a tiring Yoda.

If Yoda faces Obi Wan and Luke faces Ahsoka then I would favour Obi Wan being able to defend against Yoda longer then Ahsoka can last against Luke, this is mainly because Obi Wan is a defensive fighter and I think Ahsoka going on the attack with Ataru vs Luke will lead to her death faster then Obi Wan's defence is broken.

I'm going to say that Luke and Obi Wan win 6/10

Round 5: RoTS windu and KFV:

So for this fight, if Obi Wan fights Windu he would lose but Luke would beat KFV. I think Luke vs KFV would be a fast paced brutal fight which is over before Obi Wan loses to Windu. KFV is very arrogant and provided there is no prior knowledge of Luke as his son and he just sees another Jedi then I think he would press him hard trying to kill him but Luke being a superior and more centered fighter would beat him. Obi Wan again is a very defensive fighter ( aside from when he is trying to confuse Vader) and so he would likely be able to hold off Windu long enough for Luke to join him and then Windu loses.

If Obi Wan faces KFV and Windu faces Luke then I believe that the Obi Wan vs KFV fight would be extremely interesting. We saw Obi Wan's reaction to a glimpse of Anakin's face, now imagine he sees Anakin the way he was when he left him to die. This is going to be extremely traumatic for him. If we presume that Obi Wan maintains his motivated and "Leia amped" state throughout the fight then I see him beating him. While KFV is less conflicted then Mustafar Vader, he is still facing Obi Wan and Obi Wan has a great track record of exploiting his weaknesses and I believe with this version being slightly superior to his ROTS self overall, that he will be able to do this KFV.

Luke vs Mace Windu is a toss up, I find it very difficult to actually gauge how powerful Windu is with the force. I know that Sidious couldn't ragdoll him ( because he definitely would have if he could) so he must at least be comparable to Yoda/Sidious or he must be such a great duelist that he gave Sidious no opportunity to use the force given their surroundings were not as open as the fight between Sidious and Maul and Savage. Thankfully I don't need to answer this question as I believe that Obi Wan will beat KFV and then help Luke beat Windu.

I'm going to say 6/10 to Luke and Obi Wan but it really does depend on the setting and other details.

Round 6: OWK vader and RoTS sidious

I think that if Obi Wan fought Vader again then it would basically be the same outcome, Luke as I've said is just likely on Sidious's level now and could match him whilst Obi Wan beats Vader and this time finishes the job and then helps him finish Sidious.

If Obi Wan has to fight Sidious then I believe he will lose but Luke will also comfortably beat OWK Vader, even if Vader has no knowledge of who he is then Luke still outclasses him. It really comes down to whether or not Sidious beats Obi Wan first or Luke beats Vader first. I'm not certain about this tbh. I think Sidious is a very cunning fighter and would recognise that Luke could beat him, depending on the setting this could work in his favour or not. Sidious would likely want to fight Obi Wan and have Vader fight Luke but I think Luke and Obi Wan would not let that happen so easily and would have a united front. I really can't honestly say how this would go down.

If I had to make a choice then I would say 5.5 to Luke and Obi Wan but it's hard to call.

round 7: RoTJ luke and RoTJ vader

Whether or not Vader's prime is Rebels or ROTJ, he would definitely beat Obi Wan. By this point he doesn't have the same weaknesses for Obi Wan to exploit and there is no way that Obi Wan would be able to pull off the same moves like damaging his life support etc.. Vader would beat him and would be more likely to exploit him this time.

Luke obviously beats his ROTJ self too and then can beat ROTJ Vader whether or not Obi Wan is still alive.

If this is flipped then in scenario 2 Luke beats Vader more easily then before and Obi Wan is able to hold off the ROTJ version of Luke in time for Mando luke to come and help.

Luke and Obi Wan 8/10

Round 8: RoTJ sidious

This really depends how much stronger Sidious is in ROTJ. If he's 10% stronger than his ROTS version then Luke and Obi Wan win, if he's 50% stronger or even twice as strong then I think Luke and Obi Wan lose.

So if he's comparable to ROTS Sidious then Luke and Obi Wan 7/10

If he's really that much more powerful in ROTJ then Sidious takes 10/10

I'd love to see some scans/references to his power growth in canon if anyone has some?

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Living162637

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#6  Edited By Living162637

@breakingthrones:

Sids and Vader were stated to have grown “more powerful than anyone could imagine” right after Vader(2017)

Side note: why do people rate OWK Obi so highly? He’s not even the strongest Obi Wan and his one win was against a conflicted Vader

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BreakingThrones

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@breakingthrones:

Sids and Vader were stated to have grown “more powerful than anyone could imagine” right after Vader(2017)

Can we try and quantify that based on any other quotes, events etc..?

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Living162637

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@breakingthrones:

Imagination should be a pretty exponential. It’s saying that what was previously imagined for power, Sidious(and Vader) would exceed it. Even if it’s only Sidious and his perception, it would still be strength beyond previous Sidious wildest thoughts

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KingJedi

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ROTJ Sidious has to be the most overrated combatant in Star Wars.

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BreakingThrones

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@breakingthrones:

Imagination should be a pretty exponential. It’s saying that what was previously imagined for power, Sidious(and Vader) would exceed it. Even if it’s only Sidious and his perception, it would still be strength beyond previous Sidious wildest thoughts

I don't suppose you could direct me to the source material for it, so I can see it as a whole and consider the context fully?

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Living162637

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@breakingthrones:

Star Wars: Galactic Adventures

I can send you the full thing on Discord if you have one

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BreakingThrones

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@breakingthrones:

Star Wars: Galactic Adventures

I can send you the full thing on Discord if you have one

Cheers man. I don't currently have discord but I'll look into this for sure.

I'm currently re-reading the 25 canon Vader Comics.