Banner completely didnt think the idea that the fall/device would kill the Hulk was credible at all and the scene certainly wasnt played out as if Hulk was in any danger. Contrast that with the scene of Thor falling while in the trap or Iron Man falling out of the wormhole where its made very obvious that we are to believe they are at risk of serious injury or even death. Seeing as getting knocked out isnt a serious problem,
I wouldn't expect the same level of drama, so it not being there doesn't really factor into it for me. I'm with Banner in thinking the fall wouldn't kill Hulk, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't knock him out.
Getting KOed implies some threat at least. I'm not saying there wasnt quite the same level of drama - there was none. The scene was played entirely for laughs.
Still I agree it doesnt mean it couldnt have KOed him but this is just one of a bunch of points that paint a picture that tends to indicate Hulk not being KOed by the fall IMO.
Hulk wasnt trying to get away from people - the point of the scene (which was longer but trimmed down for release) was that the Hulk might not be as bad a guy as Banner had convincd himself. Hence the security guard pointing out that Hulk seemed to avoid landing in a populated area.
I don't think he was trying to get away from people entirely, that was isaac clarke's theory. I'm aware of the point of the scene. This is how I phrased it to isaac "The entire point of him mentioning [the way Hulk aimed his fall] was to tell Banner (though mostly the audience) that Hulk wasn't acting as a mindless killing machine, that he was as we see him later, a beast with some level of concern for others."
Fair enough.
I cant offer any rock solid proof that Hulk didnt get knocked out - we didnt see what happened - but i dont think theres much to suggest he was. Heres some reasons i dont think we are meant to believe he did:
1 Banner didnt think the SHIELD trap would kill the Hulk (and despite how it doesnt really make sense the SHIELD trap was obviously intended to be more deadly than a plain fall in and of itself)
Again, it failing to kill him doesn't mean it couldn't knock him out, and it being designed to kill him, suggests it might do him some harm. Banner thinking something won't kill Hulk isn't actually support for it not knocking him out.
It being designed to kill him doesnt suggest much of anything IMO - its not like SHIELD had tons of Hulks to test it on or much idea of the full extent of his power. Witness the shock on Fury et al's face when Banner is telling them about his failed attempt at suicide.
As an aside i dont think the main benefit of the Hulk cage was that it might kill Banner/Hulk. If that was SHIELD's intention far easier to try and assasinate Banner himself. The obvious advantage would be that its a very quick and efficient way to remove a rampaging Banner/Hulk from the helicarrier before they could do the sort of damage that Hill/Fury were so worried about.
We dont even know that Hulk would revert to Banner when knocked out. It has happened in the comics but its outnumbered by the times he stayed the Hulk.
See below.
On the other hand we have seen Hulk just lie down, fall asleep and wake upas Banner in the main Marvel movie universe continuity
So we've seen that when Hulk loses consciousness he revers to Banner? Hmm...
You've got that entirely backwards. We've seen that when Hulk reverts to Banner he loses consciousness. i.e. reversion to Banner causes loss of consciousness.
But we havent in fact seen the opposite.
The transformation was triggered by Loki's scepter, Banner's resentment of the Black Widow and Thor's intervention. None of those were factors anymore.
Hulk has maintained his form even after the trigger for his transformation has been removed.
Not sure what you are saying here. Its just more evidence that there was no real reason for the Hulk to be around or for Banner to feel endagered/angered.
We are told that Hulk was apparently lucid and calm enough to try and avoid hurting people.
How does that speak at all to his condition after impact? Him being purposeful in his fall doesn't mean he couldn't get knocked out by the impact.
I thought this was obvious but it speaks to his state of mind - he apparently wasnt raging, incoherent or generally in a terribly Hulk-like state of mind. All of which makes the idea that he might revert to Banner as soon as he was out of immediate danger kind of plausible.
We are told by the security guard that the Hulk was awake when he came through the roof. Given that this would have happened in a split-second before he hit the ground this implies to me that the guard would have had to see a conscious Hulk post landing to be sure of that.
He wouldn't have. Hulk is not typically quiet. Hulk could have made noise as he fell. Just because seeing Hulk awake might give him that information, it doesn't mean he had to see him awake.
Again I never said it was proof but its more circumstantial evidence that suggests Hulk was conscious.
From a storytelling perspective the line was probably there to tell us that Hulk was OK IMO - as stated we already knew he wasn't unconscious before
We already know the purpose of the statement, to clue Banner and the viewer in to how the Hulk works if they didn't already know.
Hulk fell from fairly significant heights without injury or fear of injury earlier. Though nowhere near 30,000 feet of course, terminal velocity means that the speed of impact maxes out - after a fall of about 500 meters for your average human apparently.
Even if you could say Hulk fell from the same height and was ok, which you've stated you can't, it still wouldn't really matter given that people can be hit in the head and get knocked out some times but not others. If he fell from the height and walked it off once, it doesn't mean he always wood.
No but it would be a pretty damn good piece of evidence in favour of one interpretation when compared to whats little there is in favour of another.
All of which brings up the point again that Hulk clearly landed on his ass which again makes the unconscious idea again a little bit less likely.
Arguments in favour of the "Hulk was knocked out" camp:
Hulk apparently didnt get up and do anything else after he fell to Earth.
We dont know that he wasnt knocked out.
Hulk changes when he loses consciousness.
Says who? We've never seen this in the Marvel movie universe. While its not part of Avengers continuity the only time Hulk did lose consciousness onscreen (in Ang Lee's film) he didnt revert to Banner.
A fall designed to kill him might actually have hurt him.
Sure. And much as you have pointed out something that might have hurt him may not have KOed him.
This also neglects the fact that, whether it makes sense or not (it doesnt really), it seems to be implied that the cage was supposed to make the fall more dangerous than a straight fall in the open atmosphere.
I wouldnt agree that "people are generally of the opinion that Hulk was KOed" either. Perhaps on this forum/thread but i think this isnt exactly the most "Hulk friendly" place and his abilities arent held in much esteem hereabouts. Im not sure that your average member of the general public got the same impression.
I actually don't know (or that much care) what other people's opinions on this are, but isaac was going on about how "half a dozen" people are arguing with him about how the hulk was knocked out and then going on about how everyone is against him, it seemed to me that the general opinion was that Hulk got knocked out so I went with it. It's not like I was using other people's opinions to validate anything, just saying to him that people have this thought and they are free to. The actual percentage of people who have that thought doesn't actually matter in this case.
Fair enough.
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