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#1 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

The two Infinity Stone wielding beings take on this street level Comic team.

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All have their respective Stones.

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Spidey, Wolverine, Iron Fist.

Battle on the Death Star.

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#3 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

Malekith could solo. If I'm not mistaken, didn't he easily over power Thor?

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#4 Posted by Killerwasp (17452 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: no

Also team 1 prolly comes down to Ronan if his hammer can break Wolverine.

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#5 Posted by 20damon (6125 posts) - - Show Bio

Mismatch

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#6 Edited by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: my mistake, had a dumb moment where i mistook him for Algrim. I'm still seeing this as a pretty easy win for team 1.

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#7 Posted by Killerwasp (17452 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: I wouldn't say easily, Wolverine is a major pain to be put down especially due to his metal frame, but team 2 has a shot depending on how the fight goes.

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#8 Posted by Noone301994 (22169 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 wins.

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#9 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: Ronan could blast all of them away. He broke the Chitauri's neck without effort. Obviously Logan is more durable, but with effort exerted, it think it could do damage to anyone of team 2.

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#10 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997 said:

@killerwasp: Ronan could blast all of them away. He broke the Chitauri's neck without effort. Obviously Logan is more durable, but with effort exerted, it think it could do damage to anyone of team 2.

Ronan will break the necks of IF, Wolverine, or spidey when they tank blows from Hulk(s), Wrecker, and other bricks?

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#11 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I said they were more durable than the Chitauri who's neck was broken. I'm simply saying a full power blast could do damage

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#12 Edited by WastelandMan (8812 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

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#13 Posted by Killerwasp (17452 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: maybe, but thats why hes the Key in this fight, if he can't break them and stuff he aint winning, but hes got some good durability.

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#14 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man said:

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

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Because he cannot do that when not touching a living planets surface. it only works on Planet surfaces with life. On a Death Star, not really a option.

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#16 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: I said they were more durable than the Chitauri who's neck was broken. I'm simply saying a full power blast could do damage

Well I am for one am the "Feats or it never happen" kinda guy. So, assumption he can one shot them with a blast he showed on the Chitari.

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#17 Edited by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I don't think he necessarily one shots any of them. However, none of team 2 is beyond K.O

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#18 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man said:

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

No Caption Provided

Because he cannot do that when not touching a living planets surface. it only works on Planet surfaces with life. On a Death Star, not really a option.

Is it stated he needs a living planets surface? I have GoG but don't remember

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#19 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: Thats true, I thought you were thinking he could one shot.

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#20 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997 said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@m_man said:

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

No Caption Provided

Because he cannot do that when not touching a living planets surface. it only works on Planet surfaces with life. On a Death Star, not really a option.

Is it stated he needs a living planets surface? I have GoG but don't remember

Yeah re watch it. They state living planets die when the stone touches their surface. only living Planets though, that have life on them. Its why Ronan in the ship could do nothing till touching the surface.

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#21 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Yeah in all honesty I think logan is the most likely to be K.O'ed out of the 3. Spiderman and Thing have both knocked him out. The biggest disadvantage for team 2, is that they are all H2H pros against guys who can go H2H and ranged attacks. I'm still going to give this to team 2 for the fact Spidey is the only guy with some degree of range.

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#22 Posted by juiceboks (24886 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: When exactly has Peter knocked Wolverine out? And Ben is stronger than all of team 1 combined so I don't see how that proves your point.

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#23 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: When exactly has Peter knocked Wolverine out? And Ben is stronger than all of team 1 combined so I don't see how that proves your point.

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A light hit from the Thing more powerful than energy blasts from all of team 1? I don't see it.

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#24 Edited by juiceboks (24886 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: Ah yes, the famous Sp0ck oneshot incident that ignores the fact that James has consistently taken hits from stronger characters and even Peter himself with greater amount of effort on the attackers part. This one laughworthy low showing doesn't prove your point at all.

Actually..yes. Ben has exerted tons of force with one finger and has other striking feats that supercede any damage output showings these three showcased. You're also comparing a blow to his cranium to an energy blast that will target his whole body, which is faulty for obvious reasons.

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#25 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: Wolverine has been beaten by weaker opponents before, saying the scan is invalid because you don't like it is irrational. And it's very debatable that none of Team 1 can exert that or not.

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#26 Edited by WastelandMan (8812 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man said:

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

No Caption Provided

Because he cannot do that when not touching a living planets surface. it only works on Planet surfaces with life. On a Death Star, not really a option.

It was never stated to be exclusively living planets but, sure.

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#27 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man said:
@sirfizzwhizz said:
@m_man said:

I don't see why Ronan just doesn't do this:

No Caption Provided

Because he cannot do that when not touching a living planets surface. it only works on Planet surfaces with life. On a Death Star, not really a option.

It was never stated to be exclusively living planets but, sure.

But just so we're all clear, If he could do that on the death star, its a stomp for Ronin, right?

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#28 Posted by juiceboks (24886 posts) - - Show Bio

@stl9997: Once in a blue moon perhaps, but the reality of the situation is that Spider Man oneshotting Wolverine isn't even consistent with their own encounters let alone all of James' other showings against stronger characters. Why does this one showing take precedent over everything else James has endured over the years due to his powerset? Because it's convenient for you?

Physically? Not seeing it. Not to mention James wasn't expecting Ben to do that and didn't have time to brace himself like he would here. And what's stopping Wolverine from just dodging the blasts in the first place?

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#29 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man: It was stated living planet. If he could do it on anything else, like the space ship, he would have. Destroyed the Space Ship and land on the surface. Done. He could not. it was stated by the head chick of Xandar, Rocket, and more that it will kill all Living things on a planet. Thats it. It does not bust a planet, just wipes out all life on the planet. IF it touches the surface, which was key plot point mate.

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#30 Posted by stl9997 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: That's the question. How fast are the blasts?

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#31 Posted by WastelandMan (8812 posts) - - Show Bio

@m_man: It was stated living planet. If he could do it on anything else, like the space ship, he would have. Destroyed the Space Ship and land on the surface. Done. He could not. it was stated by the head chick of Xandar, Rocket, and more that it will kill all Living things on a planet. Thats it. It does not bust a planet, just wipes out all life on the planet. IF it touches the surface, which was key plot point mate.

If he used it on his ship, it would just have killed everything on the ship. Also, planets aren't even alive anymore than the deathstar is. Doesn't matter either way though because Team 1 still wins.

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#32 Posted by Jacthripper (14983 posts) - - Show Bio

We never saw the extent of any of the gems power, nor Ronan's durability for that matter.

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#33 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Actually that’s not strictly true. The fact that the Stone needs to touch something to exert its power apon it is one thing. Saying it can’t effect anything other than the surface of a planet with life on it with direct contact is never once stated. In fact it was contradicted by a particular feat in the movie. When Ronan uses his hammer to touch the defence lattice of all the Xandarian ships which were preventing his ship from reaching the surface of Xandar. A single touch and all those ships went boom. Even if it only destroyed 1 ship and caused a chain reaction, it still shows that the Power Stone can affect things other than living worlds as you stated.

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Moreover, the fact that it could be used to wipe out all life on a planet in no way means that it is prohibited from effecting anything else. That would be an assumption on your part. The whole “can wipe out all life on a planet” caveat is central to the plot because it’s all that’s relevant. That’s what they were trying to prevent because no one wants Xandar a lifeless husk if they’re a good guy. Another example is in Infinity War (which I’ll grant you wasn’t out at the time you made that comment) where Thanos uses it to destroy the Asgardian ship after he got the Tesseract without touching it to anything.

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Ultimately you’re arguing that absence of proof equals proof of absence which is a logically flawed premise that even a real world court would toss out as an inviable argument/case. That alone should tell you just how flawed it is. Besides, like I said, feats from the movie (an now a later movie) contradict this assumption anyway.

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#34 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Also team 1 stomp in a mismatch. Infinity Stones (even in the MCU) make this way too 1 sided.

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#35 Edited by TourneyMaster (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@tenebrous_umbra said:

Ultimately you’re arguing that absence of proof equals proof of absence which is a logically flawed premise that even a real world court would toss out as an inviable argument/case. That alone should tell you just how flawed it is. Besides, like I said, feats from the movie (an now a later movie) contradict this assumption anyway.

Now IW came out we have more feats to judge. However at the time of this thread long ago, the argument is sound. Its called "proof or it never happen". Its the bases of all fictional debates. If you cannot prove how something works by showing it work that way, your making up your own "assumptions' and "head canon". The flaw is assuming something works the way you want it too.

However this again is a proven wrong post now IW came out and we can now at this time judge the stones differently.

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#36 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7702 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol at this LA wank. 616 Team curbstomp.

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#37 Posted by Supermanthor (20384 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah I thought it was 3 months ago at first glance and by the time I realised, I’d typed up most of it so thought “what the hell” and replied anyways. You’ll also notice I mentioned a feat from GotG which contradicts the idea the Power Gem is limited to only affecting “living worlds”. That’s a very specific claim and there’s a feat which contradicts it, thus it’s not strictly true. Besides, the claim that it was specifically mentioned to be limited in that way is not true either. Which is what caught my eye in the first place.

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Actual feats aren’t everything. Usually, the people who say they are use this as an excuse or a crutch to allow more popular characters to come out on top against lesser known ones due to having MORE feats due to MORE appearneces (see almost any Superman fanboy ever). Following that premise results in some pretty ridiculous nonsense (like TOAA having no feats, therefore he gets trashed by Wasp etc. - sure that’s the extreme end of the scale but the principle is the same). And while you’re right that claims need to be backed up (burden of proof and all that) implied power, statements which are viable (like first hand witnesses) and unbiased narration all play a factor as well.

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For example, Marvel have officially stated that Odin and Zeus are equals in power in literally every comic that has ever even touched on the subject since their creation. The fact that Zeus hasn’t had the appearances Odin has and has not been written in a position to display the same level of feats as Odin has is kind of irrelevant when 50+ years of 100% consistent continuity (including character statements from qualified beings, narration, implied power and Word of God) back up the fact that they are in fact, equal in power.

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So like I said, feats aren’t everything and absence of proof does not equal proof of absence. It’s a logical fallacy.

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#39 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor: And how does Logan get past an Aether tornado that Thor struggled to move in?? Or an Omnidirectional blast from the Power Gem?? Or Loki tricking him with a MAGIC illusion and then turning him into a lackey with his Mind Stone/Sceptre while he’s invisible?? Speed blitz is a lame go-to anyways and gets overrated like crazy.

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#41 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7702 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Based on what exactly??

Based on the fact that the 616 team is faster, stronger, more durable and way more skilled than the LA team.

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#42 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Uhhh.... what??

Have you even seen the movies?? Lets start with Strength. With the Aether Malekith no-sold a lightning charged strike from Mjolnir that createred the ground, cracked the foundations of the buildings around them and cracked all the way up the wall to shatter all the windows. Moreover, he then sent Thor reeling back the way he had come with seemingly little effort. Not a single person on the 616 team comes even close to that except Iron Fist’s Hellicarrier breaking punch and that’s very much a 1 off move that leaves him near useless from exhaustion.

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Spider-Man is possibly stronger than Loki but if he is, it’s not by as much as you think since he matched Valkyrie in combat blow for blow and she casually tossed a human sized alien easily over 100 feet with 1 arm and she can jump just as far. And that’s just Peter. The others don’t have strength feats on that level.

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With the Power Stone Ronan’s strength is increased exponentially and based on Infinity War, made him the most powerful being in the universe at the time so raw strength is irrelevant when a single touch can desintegrate everything on the face of a whole planet.

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Durability is the same. Malekith was regenerating entire limbs in seconds and again, was able to tank direct hammer attacks from Thor going all out. Plus his lightning was ineffective with the Arther protecting him. Loki got rag dolled by Hulk and only had superficial wounds despite being in shock and undoubtedly being in a lot of pain. He also tanked Ironman’s repulsors and a bullet to the face when he first arrived in Avengers. A bullet to the head would kill Spidey or Danny and Wolverine can still be pierced by them even if they won’t make it through his adamantium skeleton and he’ll just heal. Ronan is worse than all of them since he tanked a moon busting weapon to the chest and all it did was take a chunk out of his armour. Wolverine is the only one who can hope to stand up to these kinds of feats and even then he’d assuredly he knocked by some of them.

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Skill is kinda debatable too since Malekith stomped 4 battle hardened Asgardian Warriors in about 5 seconds with only Daggers when they had shields and swords or spears. Fodder or not, the Armies of Asgard are canonically the best in the universe so far when it comes to skill as opposed to other races who rely on Brute force, numbers or technology to win battles. Loki is probably the least skilled fighter out of them all but he was still able to hold his own with a holdin back Thor and managed to beat down Captain America and disarm him in about 10 seconds tops. Still even if the 616 team has the skill advantage, it doesn’t help them even out the power, versatility and strength gap which is massive.

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Speed is the only category where the 616 team really has the edge and even then, it’s countered by things like long ranged attacks, omnidirectional attacks, illusions, invisibility and potentially even mind control. If Team 1 didn’t have the Infinity Stones I’d give the solid win to the 616 team but with them it’s a complete mismatch.

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#43 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7702 posts) - - Show Bio

Oml...actual autism ^

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#44 Posted by destinyman75 (14765 posts) - - Show Bio

Epic mismatch...

Malkieth solos (I'd even ergue Malkieth is actually much faster then anyone here)

Loki easily solos

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#45 Posted by Tenebrous_Umbra (55 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst: Have you got an actual argument to present or are you just gonna throw insults like a salty child?? Get over yourself.

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#46 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7702 posts) - - Show Bio

@tenebrous_umbra: You're literally the most uninformed person I've ever seen. The LA team have absolutely 0 feats to suggest they won't get blitzed and one shotted. Ronan has done nothing with the stone to suggest he can damage Logan. Don't even get me started on the other fodder LA characters in this battle who get one shotted here.

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#47 Edited by Rajjar (1951 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst said:

Lol at this LA wank. 616 Team curbstomp.

I'd say stalemate because Ronan could unintentionally pull a Surtur if he is getting stomped that badly. If that doesn't happen though...

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#48 Posted by RampageTheFirst (7702 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar said:

I'd say stalemate because Ronan could unintentionally pull a Surtur if he is getting stomped that badly. If that doesn't happen though...

I highly doubt Ronan could planet bust, the Celestial planet busting was a completely different scenario.

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#49 Posted by TonyMartial (9784 posts) - - Show Bio

Ronan solos

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#50 Edited by Rajjar (1951 posts) - - Show Bio

@rampagethefirst said:
@rajjar said:

I'd say stalemate because Ronan could unintentionally pull a Surtur if he is getting stomped that badly. If that doesn't happen though...

I highly doubt Ronan could planet bust, the Celestial planet busting was a completely different scenario.

Does he need to be able to planet-bust though? If the battle takes place in that Death Star Room, I'd find it hard to believe he couldn't bust atleast that. Although he might get blitzed even easier by the same condition...