Malcolm Merlyn (Arrow) vs Bane (Nolanverse)

Malcolm Merlyn

vs

Bane

H2H only. Fight takes place where Batman fought Bane the first time.

Merlyn outswags him 10/10.

Malcolm doesn't have the raw strength to put him down in my opinion, he might have to tire him out. Merlyn is far ahead in skill though, he handled Nyssa as though she were a small child and she can give Arrow a rough time. I'd say Merlyn is the best h2h combatant in the Arrowverse, even above Ollie. I'm fairly sure that Ra's will be his superior and it's likely Slade is his equal if he is supposed to have suffered after effects from the Mirakuru cure when he fought Ollie last season, though I'm not sure to what degree that was the case. He's currently first in my opinion.

Merlyn stomps.

Merlyn wins

Malcolm was seemingly stronger than Oliver and was able to dent metal with his foot and shatter the Arrow's bow during their second fight. He's plenty strong.

And just to add Nick because he's awesome,Slade should be the most skilled combatant,other than probably Ra's,in the Arrowverse IMO

Merlyn should win this though.

Slade is probably my favorite character in the show. By god, Manu absolutely murdered that role, I never even fathomed that the world could produce such an unbelievable badass.

That said, I still see Malcolm as the most dangerous character in the show. Recent episodes reinforce him as Oliver's number 1 big bad, constantly holding all the cards and staying two steps ahead. Remember, Malcolm won in season 1, Slade lost. In pure combat ability Oliver was able to defeat Slade whereas he had to resort to drastic measures in order to defeat Malcolm.

@blackwind: I agree. Whether or not one wins with skill and force is irrelevent because of Merlyn's swag levels.

Not saying he's weak, but I'm not sure he's packing enough of a punch to topple Bane, who can tank shots from Batman like breaths of fresh air. Nolan Batman is stronger than Ollie and Malcolm. Give Malcolm the smallest of blades and he should win, but Bane was such a physical powerhouse I'm not sure Malcolm could put him down.

Also, it's possible that the Mirakuru cure threw off Slade's game, so he could be equal to Malcolm, we haven't seen him in a situation where we can rule out any extraneous variables. I still agree Malcolm's the boss. Even the bit where he was telling Oliver to shoot him, he would have just caught it anyway, lol. Malcolm's just playing everybody.

I want Jack to win, but I'm not 100% certain. He's certainly more skilled - it's Bane's strength, striking power, and durability that will give him problems.

Jack as in Captain Jack Harkness?

@jedixman: i think merlyn could just shoot him in the head lol

@nickzambuto: My favorite is Merlyn.I had a nerdgasm when Merlyn reappeared in Season 2 again but Slade was an absolute monster for the last half of the season.Slade was to Ollie like Bane was to Batman IMO

Ollie only beat Slade because of the cure.Oliver and his crew were manhandled like common street thugs when Slade infiltrated their hideout,even to where Slade commented to Ollie:

"Don't forget who taught you how to fight kid"

Oliver barely beat Slade in the end.In fact,the mirakuru soldiers should've ran over the army of archers easily seeing how Oliver and Merlyn had extreme trouble with a common mirakuru solider.Even in the encounters of Oliver and Merlyn,Merlyn basically was commenting on how Oliver was basically his better like saying "Oliver is faster,etc" and that Ollie needed a drive or incentive when fighting Merlyn to beat him,something that plot gave Ollie in the end of Season 1

In a straight fight,Slade should beat both Merlyn and Oliver at the same time but I'll view Merlyn as the more badass villain IMO

Yup.

No weapons.

Totally disagree that Slade could beat them both simultaneously. He manhandled Ollie because of the Mirakuru, if I remember correctly, Ollie fights him equally for a few seconds with eskrima sticks and is then overpowered by his brute strength, not his skill. personally think that they are of a level. Ollie managed to get a cheap shot on Merlyn when he was trapped in a lock. plus, Merlyn basically said he's younger and therefore has better physicals, but Merlyn is quite clearly more experienced, brutal and skilled than Ollie. Slade on the other hand has not actually defeated Ollie in a fair fight (i.e. without Mirakuru), but when he did lose, the argument can be made he was suffering adverse effects from the cure he had been dosed with. I do get the impression that Slade is meant to be superior to Ollie, but Slade has done nothing so far to indicate he is more skilled than Merlyn in my opinion. Merlyn is quite clearly Ollie's superior and dominated Nyssa like she was a 9 year old. Most of Slade's feats occurred during his Mirakauru amp and the one time he fought without it he lost (but as I said, I don't hold it against him). Preceeding that he beat Wintergreen, which is nowhere near as good a feat as beating Ollie repeatedly.

@silverpool: Malcolm is the reallest goon ever on Arrow.

@rogueshadow: Of course the Mirakuru played a part but Slade made Oliver eat dirt with little effort.Slade even commenting:

"Don't forget who taught you how to fight kid"

As you said,the fight became more fair when Slade's mirakuru was being drained but Oliver eventually beat him due to,IMO,Oliver surpassing Slade's physicals sans Mirakuru.Other than that,Slade held every advantage over Oliver and Merlyn barely surpasses Oliver in overall anything,if at all.Oliver didn't have too much trouble with Nyssa in H2H.In fact,I think Bronze Tiger gave more trouble to Oliver than Nyssa.

In terms of overall skill,this is how I list them IMO

1.Probably Ra's on paper till he appears more(Please!!!)

2.Slade

3.Merlyn

4.Oliver

5.Tiger

And whoever else.Tiger is arguable

@reaverlation: The Mirakuru was a huge part in my opinion. I think he probably could beat them all (Black Canary isn't that great), but not with the ease that he did.

Bronze Tiger is definitely up there, I'd forgotten about him for a second there, but in raw h2h I put him above Ollie, he was going to end Ollie if not for his trick Arrow earlier in season 2. Merlyn has beaten Ollie every time they fight, whereas Slade hasn't actually done anything without the Mirakuru. I'd assume he's at least equal to Merlyn, but he doesn't have the feats to back it up in my opinion. I do think he is meant to be > Ollie though and roughly equal to Merlyn . I don't get why you think Merlyn holds nothing over Ollie when he consistently beats him. Ollie has the virtue of youth and strength, Merlyn experience, he's just more skilled.

Really, based on feats I think Bronze Tiger should be above Slade in my opinion.

I'd probably grade it as:

1. Ra's (assumed)
2. Merlyn
3. Slade
4. Bronze Tiger
5. Ollie
6. Billy Wintergreen
7. Al-Ow Al
8. Nyssa
9. China White
10. Black Canary

Probably forgetting a couple of people in there somewhere. I'd guess Laurel will end up around 6th.

On another note, why the hell isn't Diggle an expert h2h combatant? He already had the advantage of years of military training and has been training with Ollie for two years now, it took Ollie five years to get where he is, but Diggle actually has the advantage of not being an entirely unschooled wimp. I hope he's much better by the end of the season.

@rogueshadow: I wouldn't wager Mirakuru-less Slade taking down the Arrow crew or even Merlyn.

Tiger is underrated from the Arrowverse.Too bad he doesn't get more screen time.

Technically Oliver beat Merlyn at the end of Season 1 =P.Slade without the mirakuru or losing the mirakuru was fighting on even grounds with Oliver.Oliver only beat Slade,and barely,was because Slade lost all of his strength.The cure basically drained Slade.

Merlyn always commented on how Oliver was better like being faster,etc. just Oliver never had a motive till the end of Season 1.Maybe Merlyn is just better then the rest of the LoA,sans Ra's of course,as Ollie has gotten the better of every other LoA in his way.

Out of our list of most skilled,they both seem about right.Some interchangeable maybe.

I hope Diggle gets more screen time.He's turning into a housewife =P

I'm curious what makes you think that Nolan Batman is stronger than Oliver and Malcolm. Those two feats I listed aren't things you can dismiss so easily, they're impressive. Oliver himself is probably olympic level in strength just based off his workout routine, but in combat he's also been able to one-arm a full grown man through a wooden door, decapitated a stone statue with his bow, injure Mirakuru guys and also survived their attacks, and had a goon break a pool stick over his head and just stood still. I'm probably being forgetful but I can't really think of many impressive strength showings from Baleman.

To be honest, just comparing their fight scenes, I don't see Bane landing a finger on Malcolm the entire fight. He's just so much quicker and more agile, it almost makes this match unfair.

To be honest I really don't find them comparable. Bane's inability to feel pain is a factor, and his concrete busting feat is impressive, but considering Malcolm was able to stand up to a Mirakuru soldier and even block/parry a few of his attacks, he isn't that far off. Honestly snapping Oliver's bow isn't that far off from hyper-enraged Bane putting holes in the pillar.

@nickzambuto: In regards to how the pace of the fights were in the Nolan trilogy,@frozen made a great case for why they're faster than they seem

@reaverlation: @nickzambuto: Yeah, Batman wasn't actually as slow as he visibly appeared in TDK/TDKR.

In Batman Begins, he beat 12 thugs in 21 seconds flat. Nolan stated in an interview that's how criminals saw his speed: far too fast to comprehend or react too, in TDK/TDKR he slowed down the camera angles so people could see what moves he was actually using. He wasn't actually, from a person's perspective, any slower.

Could go either way

Malcolm is a boss in season 3

Yeah, I saw that clip on the dvd extras quite a while ago and instantly thought about the battle forums and was like, 'f*ck you Nolan. F*ck you.' That's probably Nolan Batman's best feat, he didn't just fight them in a one at a time fashion like most films, he was literally surrounded by them and took them down.

I think Black Canary is pretty sloppy, she's really done nothing but fight fodder, I think Slade would dispatch her easily even without Mirakuru. China White is more impressive tbh. Ollie just got a cheap shot in on Merlyn, Merlyn had already won.

Malcolm is definitely better than the rest of the LOS. Ollie's faster, but that's just his physicals, they might be better, but his skill and experience is inferior to Merlyn's right now.

@nickzambuto - He held Ra's' entire bodyweight with one arm in BB, Neeson weighs about 225LB off the top of my head. Factor in the momentum and that's impressive.

I'm talking with no Mirakuru. Slade's enhancements made him bar-none the most dangerous character, but based on their respective records' against Oliver, in terms of skill Merlyn is superior.

Also I don't see how Merlyn's words could be taken as admitting Oliver is his better when he only called Oliver faster and younger to lead up to saying that he was still inferior. Oliver might be more experienced in season 2, but the fact remains that in all of their encounters, Merlyn has won. There isn't anything to prove Oliver has yet surpassed him, especially considering Merlyn has also proved that he hasn't lost a step, what with beating a Mirakuru guy much quicker and easier than Oliver ever did, treating Nyssa like a joke, and of course manipulating Oliver at every turn since season 3 began.

There's no proof that the cure did anything other than take away Slade's powers, it was never implied that he was tired or drained afterwards, just that he had become human.

The army of archers beat the Mirakuru army because they were throwing around the cure like wildfire, and without Mirakuru, they were just common criminals.

I disagree, I think Sara was actually pretty good. She regularly trounced cannon fodder, disarmed and killed a LoA ninja with his own blade in about two seconds, took on two of Al-Owal's ninjas simultaneously by herself, straight up told Diggle that she could easily murder him if she wanted, and she was good enough with a staff to spar against Diggle and Oliver simultaneously and not be immediately outmatched.

I agree that Diggle needs to become a more capable fighter. I hate this stigma in fiction that if you're not oriental then you can't be skilled. Originally a ninja was cool because they were able to take down whole squads of soldiers by themselves just with martial arts, but nowadays, the trope has become so common that it's actually more badass for a soldier type character to beat the ninja at their own game. At the end of season 2 when Diggle was ambushed by Isabel, I though "hell yeah! I can't wait for next week now, I just know this is going to be Diggle's badass moment of glory!" then next week comes around and he gets his ass kicked almost immediately and gets saved by freakin Felicity. It's really getting to the point where Diggle is almost completely useless, which is terrible because he's one of the best characters on the show. Why can't a goddamn Special friggin Forces operative be competent against these stupid ninjas?!

Merlyn.

Minus the Mirakuru, I honestly see a Slade (in his prime,) taking down everyone in Ollie's crew except Oliver himself.

And I don't think Tiger is underrated in the Arrowverse. The plot just doesn't call for him often enough to appear, but his rare showings have been about what one would expect.

And I think Diggle is the sleeper on Arrow. He's probably just as, if not more skilled, than Oliver and could probably hold his own with Slade for awhile, even if he does go down. I do agree that It would be cool to see him do more, but at the same time I kind of like what they're doing with him. I think it's an unexpected, but interesting turn for the character.

As for the actual topic of the thread, hand-to-hand, assuming Malcolm can play keep away, he should manage to take down Bane. I'm more interested in the witty banter that would occur between the two, personally.

Unfortunately that doesn't say much for Bane. He only fought an old out of shape Batman with a half useless leg. And keeping up with Batman still isn't enough to say Bane is a match for a guy with Malcolm Merlyn's reflexes.

If that's all then he isn't in Oliver or Malcom's league.

@nickzambuto: Yeah, that's my point, they are just fodder. Sparring with Ollie and Diggle is just sparring, it's not a combat feat. Telling Diggle she'd beat him isn't a feat and Diggle isn't great. Not saying she's p*ss poor, but she never fought a named combatant and won aside from the Huntress, who is meh.

I agree with everything you said about Diggle, he's a freaking special forces operative, you know like, oh I don't know, what's that guy's name SLADE WILSON. He should be Ollie level by the end of this season, he was already a special forces vet and has been training with Canary and Ollie for three years, he should be better than he is. If Roy surpasses him I'm going to headbutt a wall.

Glad to see the Arrow series is getting recognised...

@nickzambuto: I agree Slade is the most dangerous character no doubt just I see Slade as superior.Mirakuru-less Slade is below Ollie in physicals and already has gotten beat too bad for Slade to beat Ollie.

Merlyn had the same amount of difficulty as Oliver did against a common Mirakuru soldier.They barely won except Merlyn was more hurt than Oliver.Merlyn treated Nyssa a joke in the 1st encounter with a fight that didn't finish.In the 2nd fight,Nyssa did way better against Merlyn.Oliver handily beat Nyssa in their encounter in Season 2.Of course Merlyn is manipulating Oliver,especially with Thea in the palm of Merlyn's hand and that Merlyn still owns the city.

The cure was turning Slade back to himself before receiving the mirakuru,which is below Oliver physically by a decent margin and the fact that Slade had already taken quite a beating from Oliver as well.

The soldiers were jobbing tremendously to the point where Roy,before his training,held his own against one of them.Roy should've been ripped in half.The soldiers should've won,quite handily.

Malcolm Merlyn

Merlyn faster & have better reaction time than probably everyone in the Nolan-verse but doesn't have the damage output really but Bane down that quick. Bane morphine mask is a problem because it causes him to keep fighting after tanking major hit but he still have the same weak point like every other human. Merlyn isn't stupid he will know he cant beat a brute like Bane in H2H so he will go for the cheap shot right off bat.

Merlyn 7/10.

tough match up Merlyn could take it but if he tries to grapple Bane, Bane will just crush him

@scouterv: Diggle would get stomped by Slade.

Hah, good point.

I wish they would have done a Slade vs. Merlyn fight in season 2. That would've been awesome. Merlyn is definitely one of my favorite characters.

P.S. He beats Bane 10/10

@nickzambuto: Not really, Ra's slid down that mountaintop in the snow and Bruce pulled up about 235LB (factor in his armour and weapons) with just one arm. That's insanely strong in my book and more impressive than anything I recall them doing. Even if you don't think that's as strong as them,the fact that Bane could literally eat Batman's strikes like Jujubes makes me doubt Merlyn's strikes will be able to put him down.

Merlyn has some crazy durability though. Off the top of my mind getting stabbed through the chest with an arrow is one, but there are more. Plus he has the speed and martial arts advantage.

Merlyn stomps.

That much swag can't be beat.

Jmarshmallow

Bane.

@nickzambuto: Bane fought a prime Batman in his second fight. That Batman was just as good as the version that beat 12 thugs in 21 seconds flat.

Just clarifying the misconception about Nolan Batman's speed. He's actually much faster than I once thought after Nolan's comment in an interview.

I was talking about his ability to dish out punishment to Bane. He hasn't displayed the ability to target nerves like Ollie and I just don't think he has the strength to put Bane down, he casually tanked shots from Batman with literally 0 effects.

These two sources (one and two) list Neeson as below 200 pounds (195 - 197). Like I mentioned, Oliver regularly throws around his own body weight like it's nothing at all during training, and he was able to one-arm a full grown man through a wooden door on two occasions. His feats are better, plus Batman was out of his prime in Rises.

@fallschirmjager get in on this?

Well that's a whole different debate in itself.

He can strike weak spots like he does to the guards at around 1:22