@Thedarkpaladin: They weren't searching every galaxy, only one which had black abyss and they already knew where they wanted to go, before traveling to that galaxy they weren't searching every galaxy. "He was able to see darsh" isn't going to prove anything cause he didn't got any powerup to give such statement. He doesn't even have any reactive evolution like hit to prove that his statement should be right.
@thedarkpaladin: I've seen two translations where Vados says she had trouble seeing him and then another where she says it was fine and she managed. I think the Angels can perceive Dyspo's small bursts but mainly because its really linear and predictable and he only does it for a short time.
only one which had black abyss and they already knew where they wanted to go,
That doesn't really change anything, but thanks for telling me something I already knew. In order to travel from the Black Abyss to Earth, they would need the perception speed to avoid moving past right past it, as traveling roughly 7,000 times LS would require mere seconds to zip right past the solar system without even knowing about it.
before traveling to that galaxy they weren't searching every galaxy.
Irrelevant and you've already stated this.
"He was able to see darsh" isn't going to prove anything cause he didn't got any powerup to give such statement. He doesn't even have any reactive evolution like hit to prove that his statement should be right.
The proof is in the fact that he was able to provide a description of Darsh's fight. If the 'reactive evolution' doesn't constitute a justifiable reason in your opinion, invent something else to solve your quandary. Regardless, it doesn't change what happened.
@thedarkpaladin: I've seen two translations where Vados says she had trouble seeing him and then another where she says it was fine and she managed. I think the Angels can perceive Dyspo's small bursts but mainly because its really linear and predictable and he only does it for a short time.
I'm pretty sure Vados managed to see him in the Crunchyroll translation, which is official. It was implied, not outright stated, that Champa initially had trouble perceiving him, but it looked as though he was able to keep track of the battle later on perfectly fine.
DB team still stomps. I don't get the logic people use here, DS clearly is inferior in stats both strength and combat speed. Going by the same logic Beerus travells trillions of times the speed of light and perceives everything while also can fight using the same speed as shown in the manga and anime. Schneider doesn't have any feat close to this while Vegito can pretty much fight Beerus and react to his speed since he is somewhat comparable to him. Manga Vegito knows Hakai too. And DS has no answer for Time skip either.
@Thedarkpaladin: Solar system are not really that close to each other. They can easily travel without busting them which is still a travel feat in combat it needs 1000 times more perception than travel. Whic isn't proven, you are again saying the same thing without any proof that he was able to see darsh which is inconsistent.
Solar system are not really that close to each other.
That only makes it worse. They would essentially be looking for a needle in a haystack and would need to be capable of perceiving their surroundings to locate Earth.
They can easily travel without busting them which is still a travel feat
Without busting them?
in combat it needs 1000 times more perception than travel.
It does require more perception speed in combat when you're the individual fighting.
Whic isn't proven, you are again saying the same thing without any proof that he was able to see darsh which is inconsistent.
You're confused. The proof is in the story itself - where Raphael is capable of keeping track of Darsh's battle enough to provide an explanation of what's happening. Even if you wanted to play the inconsistency card, which is ironic considering you're debating for DBS, for Raphael failing to keep up with Darsh that one instance in his battle with Konron, the fact would remain that he did show the ability to keep track of Darsh's fight later on, meaning there would be nothing wrong with the statement confirming Darsh and Uriel were exchanging millions of attacks, counters and movements per second, which is still faster combat speed than anything the DBS or Toriko team is working with. As for you point of making statements without proof, refer to your initial response to me, which you've yet to back up at all.
@Thedarkpaladin: You cannot take any statement as feats, if we do then by statement jiren is above time and dyspo is fastest in all universes. The fact that he wasn't able to see base form itself proves that he is slower than normal darsh. You are also repeating the same thing with just a irrelevent statement, this is my last post now as this is not going anywhere you can't provide anything of his speed been consistent. Also darsh dosen't have feats to kill and immortal soul. If you want to reply to his post then go ahead it sill dosen't prove anything.
@thedarkpaladin: Actually his million attacks per second is not really great when you calculate it. It barely touches Light Speed taking 1 m distance for 1 million punches. You need to punch Billions of times in a second to just hit faster than light speed because light travels at 299.792 million meter per/sec. Its really not a good feat compared to DBS where characters cross and fight distances way beyond Light can travel, actually stated to be above light etc.
Statements aren't completely disregarded when used in conjunction with feats - in this case, the feat is Darsh and Uriel exchanging a certain amount of attacks, counters and movements per second. The number was confirmed by another source. There is no rule against using statements to support showings, and going by your odd logic, many characters' speed would be unquantifiable, including the DBS team.
if we do then by statement jiren is above time and dyspo is fastest in all universes.
Jiren transcending time is what you call a hyperbole. If he was really above the concept of time itself, he would not be under a time limit to finish the tournament. As for Dyspo being the fastest in all the universes, that's completely unknown.
The fact that he wasn't able to see base form itself proves that he is slower than normal darsh.
But you just said Raphael failing to perceive base Darsh in inconsistent with his other showings, so it shouldn't count. You also said statements shouldn't count as feats, so the same would logically hold true for anti-feats as well out of fairness.
You are also repeating the same thing with just a irrelevent statement, this is my last post now as this is not going anywhere you can't provide anything of his speed been consistent.
Mainly because you're confused on what the burden of proof is. The fact that Raphael was indeed describing the fight, which correlates to what was shown on panel, is my proof that he could see Darsh. What you're complaining about is the reason for why he was able to see him later on, which is unknown and frankly irrelevant to the proof aspect of the argument. Meanwhile, you haven't provided a shred of logically sound reasoning as to why the DBS or Toriko team has a chance here. Going by the logic you've used so far, their feats are lackluster and would require scaling or statements of some sort (9/10 it will be inconsistent in DBS) just to argue them past city block level.
Also darsh dosen't have feats to kill and immortal soul.
It was implied Merged Zamasu lost his immortality and if he was truly immortal, he wouldn't have been killed at all. Zamasu simply lacks resistance feats to existence erasure or BFR techniques such as Black Sabbath.
If you want to reply to his post then go ahead it sill dosen't prove anything.
It proves Darsh has a better case in the speed department and the DBS team has no way of killing him. Meanwhile, a simple planet bust would annihilate most of the DBS team due to their own inability to survive the vacuum of space.
This would be accurate if Darsh punched at the speed of a normal person, but he could exchange millions of already FTL punches per second, along with movements and counters. Besides, no one on the DBS team has any on-panel quantification to support the notion that their combat reaction and short movement speed is that fast that I'm aware of. The first instance of a mortal being stated or shown to surpass the speed of light is Dyspo, who for all we know, is much faster than anyone on the team.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
The human punch logic doesn't fit since humans can't even punch at those speeds. Saying every single punch was FTL is assumptions and wanks the feat.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
This is again, assuming he was punching as fast as an ordinary human. Regardless of this, there's nothing confirming anyone on the DBS team can thrown over a million punches, counters, movements a second, so saying they're faster in combat isn't based on any statement or quantifiable showing.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
This is again, assuming he was punching as fast as an ordinary human. Regardless of this, there's nothing confirming anyone on the DBS team can thrown over a million punches, counters, movements a second, so saying they're faster in combat isn't based on any statement or quantifiable showing.
They don't have to, there's also something called timing. You can hit only just 1 meter distance in a very very small amount of time i.e way less than 1 second and still be above light speed. Dyspo has already shown FTL+ combat speed and is even stated to be that fast.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
This is again, assuming he was punching as fast as an ordinary human. Regardless of this, there's nothing confirming anyone on the DBS team can thrown over a million punches, counters, movements a second, so saying they're faster in combat isn't based on any statement or quantifiable showing.
They don't have to, there's also something called timing. You can hit 1 m in a very very small amount of time and still be above light speed. Dyspo has already shown FTL+ combat speed and is even stated to be that fast.
Dyspo's combat speed is irrelevant to this thread, as he's not on the team and there is no way to determine whether anyone here could approach his short burst speed. Especially in the form of a punch or kick.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
This is again, assuming he was punching as fast as an ordinary human. Regardless of this, there's nothing confirming anyone on the DBS team can thrown over a million punches, counters, movements a second, so saying they're faster in combat isn't based on any statement or quantifiable showing.
They don't have to, there's also something called timing. You can hit 1 m in a very very small amount of time and still be above light speed. Dyspo has already shown FTL+ combat speed and is even stated to be that fast.
Dyspo's combat speed is irrelevant to this thread, as he's not on the team and there is no way to determine whether anyone here could approach his short burst speed. Especially in the form of a punch or kick.
Not really SSB Goku could react to Dyspo's movement. Hit was blocking most of his punches. We have SSB Vegito here who is miles above Goku in stats and so is Merged Zamasu. We also have Hit here. There's no way Schneider is blitzing.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
@thedarkpaladin: Yep. Imagine if he could maintain the bursts, have more unpredictability like an actual speedster or powerhouse (Flash, Thawne, Superman) etc and better striking. He might be the first impressive DB character in combat speed wise.
@thedarkpaladin: It's never mentioned those were millions of "FTL" Punches that's just assumption.
It's quite obvious they weren't punches thrown at ordinary human speeds, though, rendering that calculation invalid. And it's still more than what the DBS team has shown.
Not really light travels at 299.792 million meters per/sec. He would have to punch above 299 million times in a second to just hit light speed. It's not even mentioned how of the million punches he did regardless he is not hitting much above light speed in combat compared to DBS team.
This is again, assuming he was punching as fast as an ordinary human. Regardless of this, there's nothing confirming anyone on the DBS team can thrown over a million punches, counters, movements a second, so saying they're faster in combat isn't based on any statement or quantifiable showing.
They don't have to, there's also something called timing. You can hit 1 m in a very very small amount of time and still be above light speed. Dyspo has already shown FTL+ combat speed and is even stated to be that fast.
Dyspo's combat speed is irrelevant to this thread, as he's not on the team and there is no way to determine whether anyone here could approach his short burst speed. Especially in the form of a punch or kick.
Not really SSB Goku could react to Dyspo's movement. Hit was blocking most of his punches. We have SSB Vegito here who is miles above Goku in stats and so is Merged Zamasu. We also have Hit here. There's no way Schneider is blitzing.
As explained above, Goku was only able to react by reading the flaw in Dyspo's linear movement speed and Hit could only keep up enough to protect his vitals from the incoming assault. Even if Vegetto is ahead of him in power, that doesn't necessarily hold true for speed.
@thedarkpaladin: Yep. Imagine if he could maintain the bursts, have more unpredictability like an actual speedster or powerhouse (Flash, Thawne, Superman) etc and better striking. He might be the first impressive DB character in combat speed wise.
He'd probably be one of the most dangerous fighters in the tournament if he could maintain the speed in combat.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
It isn't just millions of punches. Darsh and Uriel were exchanging millions of counters and movements as well and their speed isn't limited to linear burst movements which can be easily predicted by slower adversaries and countered accordingly. Goku was getting blitzed left and right by Dyspo's burst speed and there was no indication that he could follow any of those movements during the duration of the increase. He was able to devise a counter by predicting where he would end up, which doesn't require one to move as fast as the one doing the blitzing. We also can't be sure how often Dyspo uses his burst speed in combat. If he's truly limited to applying in it short, linear movements, there may be times where he was blitzing Hit and Freeza via his normal speed.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
No they're much more impressive. For starters both are combat and perception based because you have to actually perceive the attacks the opposing person is throwing at you while exchanging millions of punches a second yourself. What Dyspo does is the equivalent of a small bull rush, somewhat impressive but he has no combat showings or perceptions that put him on MDS level.
Goku didnt react to it because of his Rhonda Rhousey level skill, he reacted to it because Dyspo is so uncreative with his attacks even someone like Goku could counter it because of that.
For Hits case Dyspo listened to a specific twitching noise Hit made with his tineskip and when Hit figured that out he managed to beat him. And Frieza wasn't overwhelmed by his speed or tricks either, he acted cocky and let Dyspo grab his tail and throw him around.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
No they're much more impressive. For starters both are combat and perception based because you have to actually perceive the attacks the opposing person is throwing at you while exchanging millions of punches a second yourself. What Dyspo does is the equivalent of a small bull rush, somewhat impressive but he has no combat showings or perceptions that put him on MDS level.
Goku didnt react to it because of his Rhonda Rhousey level skill, he reacted to it because Dyspo is so uncreative with his attacks even someone like Goku could counter it because of that.
For Hits case Dyspo listened to a specific twitching noise Hit made with his tineskip and when Hit figured that out he managed to beat him. And Frieza wasn't overwhelmed by his speed or tricks either, he acted cocky and let Dyspo grab his tail and throw him around.
What Dyspo does is way faster than anything DS has shown. The fight won't even take much with such fighters here so short burst argument is invalid.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
No they're much more impressive. For starters both are combat and perception based because you have to actually perceive the attacks the opposing person is throwing at you while exchanging millions of punches a second yourself. What Dyspo does is the equivalent of a small bull rush, somewhat impressive but he has no combat showings or perceptions that put him on MDS level.
Goku didnt react to it because of his Rhonda Rhousey level skill, he reacted to it because Dyspo is so uncreative with his attacks even someone like Goku could counter it because of that.
For Hits case Dyspo listened to a specific twitching noise Hit made with his tineskip and when Hit figured that out he managed to beat him. And Frieza wasn't overwhelmed by his speed or tricks either, he acted cocky and let Dyspo grab his tail and throw him around.
What Dyspo does is way faster than anything DS has shown. The fight won't even take much with such fighters here so short burst argument is invalid.
None of the fighters here have shown the ability to do what Dyspo does.
@thedeathstar: He's FTL in short bursts which are linear, predictable and yet are still a hassle for some like Champa, Goku and Hit. The only reason the latter two were able to counter him was because he couldn't maintain those FTL bursts and was a cocky fighter with the same amount of creativity in his attacks as the series he's in.
Exactly. That's the only reason Goku was able to devise a strategy - by predicting where he would end up. The flaw in Dyspo's technique was clearly outlined in that battle, which Goku proceeded to take advantage of. Exchanging millions of counters, movements and attacks in the span of a second is very different from what Dyspo was doing.
Exchanging millions of punches in a single "second" is not comparable to movements that are still FTL+ stated and shown and so they have to be done in a very short amount of time. 1 Second is huge time and is like an eternity to DB characters. Even though some of Dyspo's movements were linear you still have to be near light speed or above to actually see and predict it. Not to mention how skilled Goku is it was easy for him. Hit couldn't do it instead he tried to adapt to his speed and then only he was able to block some of his punches. Final form Frieza couldn't do it either and was rag-rolled.
No they're much more impressive. For starters both are combat and perception based because you have to actually perceive the attacks the opposing person is throwing at you while exchanging millions of punches a second yourself. What Dyspo does is the equivalent of a small bull rush, somewhat impressive but he has no combat showings or perceptions that put him on MDS level.
Goku didnt react to it because of his Rhonda Rhousey level skill, he reacted to it because Dyspo is so uncreative with his attacks even someone like Goku could counter it because of that.
For Hits case Dyspo listened to a specific twitching noise Hit made with his tineskip and when Hit figured that out he managed to beat him. And Frieza wasn't overwhelmed by his speed or tricks either, he acted cocky and let Dyspo grab his tail and throw him around.
What Dyspo does is way faster than anything DS has shown. The fight won't even take much with such fighters here so short burst argument is invalid.
None of the fighters here have shown the ability to do what Dyspo does.
Not really the same fighters here have countered Dyspo's speed and people here are way above regular SSB Goku. Hit for one has time stopping abilities in which he can even allow his teammates to move like he did with the Alien Mob Boss while Darsh is a statue.
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Speed isn't even a case here when you got someone like Hit who always starts with his time stopping abilities giving Vegito a good time to Hakai him. Regardless, Vegito is still faster.
Not really the same fighters here have countered Dyspo's speed and people here are way above regular SSB Goku.
Not with their own speed, though, which is kind of the point. As we've already discussed, Goku merely anticipated where Dyspo would end up and devised a strategy to counter him. It wouldn't require him to be as fast as Dyspo and that was made apparent in their battle.
Speed isn't even a case here when you got someone like Hit who always starts with his time stopping abilities
He usually tries to skip time in battle from what I remember, and it's show a rather limited duration. Otherwise, he would have been nigh unstoppable in the ToP by just freezing time for an extended period against Dyspo and knocking him off.
giving Vegito a good time to Hakai him.
Vegetto has never shown Hakai once in either the anime or manga. Besides, Darsh has demonstrated resistance to existence erasure in the past, whereas there is nothing to suggest a Judas Priest wouldn't one-shot anyone on the opposing side.
Regardless, Vegito is still faster.
This is an assumption. Vegetto has no feats or statements suggesting his combat speed is on par with guys that exchange millions of attacks, counters and movements in a mere second. No one in DBS has shown that level of combat speed.
@thedarkpaladin: Vegito knows all of Goku's techniques and has already shown that he can use both Goku and Vegeta's techniques or even mix it. To say he cannot do it despite the fact Goku already did it in the manga is an assumption in itself at this point. Darsh was already on the verge of getting erased when he countered Judas Priest which is a weaker variant of the Hakai.
Vegito is much faster than SSB Goku who countered Dyspo and Hit already blitzes Darsh. He already stopped time for quite sometime when he killed the Alien Mob Boss. They don't even need much time.
Hit gives Vegito the ability to move in his time stop, Vegito Hakais.
The only reason Hit is not invincible in the Tournament of Power is because people like Jiren and such can dimension hope, break through his dimension, can realize they are in a time stop and such. Darsh don't have similar resistance feats.
Vegito knows all of Goku's techniques and has already shown that he can use both Goku and Vegeta's techniques or even mix it. To say he cannot do it despite the fact Goku already did it in the manga is an assumption in itself at this point. Darsh was already on the verge of getting erased when he countered Judas Priest which is a weaker variant of the Hakai.
He didn't demonstrate all of Goku and Vegeta's techniques in battle - only a few. Back in the Boo Saga, he didn't even use SSJ3 and didn't try Kaio-Ken against Zamasu once. Assuming he can use all of their techniques when nothing on paper or on screen confirms that is like me saying Darsh can stop time because we've seen Lucien do it in the past - the burden of proof falls on you to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that Vegetto can use Hakai. Also, I'm referring to the instance where he overused Dragonknight Lucifer and Judas Pain and was in danger of being erased from existence because of it (Judas Priest is his own spell that he used against Uriel, who temporarily resisted its erasure effects):
He resisted the effects and came back even stronger than he was before. What proof is there to say Hakai is any stronger when it's only successfully worked on characters weaker than MDS in the past?
Vegito is much faster than SSB Goku who countered Dyspo and Hit already blitzes Darsh. He already stopped time for quite sometime when he killed the Alien Mob Boss. They don't even need much time.
Be that as it may, SSJB Goku's speed doesn't scale from Dyspo, seeing as there is nothing to suggest he's anywhere near the latter's linear burst speed. It's a unique ability exclusive to Dyspo that can only be used for brief instances in short bursts.
Hit gives Vegito the ability to move in his time stop, Vegito Hakais.
Hit would honestly get blitzed from the start, as he has virtually no speed feats or defense to Darsh's spells. As for Vegetto using Hakai, not only am I not convinced that's even possible, but even if he could, the fact remains that Darsh has already resisted being erased from existence in the past. Taking out most of the team, Vegetto included, would be as simple as busting the planet in one fell swoop.
The only reason Hit is not invincible in the Tournament of Power is because people like Jiren and such can dimension hope, break through his dimension, can realize they are in a time stop and such. Darsh don't have similar resistance feats.
If Hit could stop time for extended periods, an adversary like Dyspo would have been absolutely no trouble for him. Vados confirmed that he actually skips time rather than stops it altogether, which would make more sense based on the way he's utilized the technique in combat. Breaking through dimensional walls is no trouble for the likes of Darsh as seen in his fight with Uriel. Especially one as small as Hit's.
Also I find it interesting that Deathstar and deathmetal are repeating Bastard downplay arguments in this thread that I already debunked in another one. Considering I never got a response from Deathstar, it's as if he couldn't counter my post so is instead trying out his luck with the same arguments on another user because he thinks it's solid lol. Just to let you know TDP's a veteran so you're not fairing any better against him.
Majin Darsh is lightspeed because he's limited to 1 million punches per second lmao.
@thedarkpaladin: Well,Champa clearly had trouble percieving Dyspo and he's = to Beerus. Even Vados stated she managed as if it was something difficult. Nothing really suggests Champa was able to percieve Dyspo later on, he just knew how the fight was going based on Hits injuries, exclamations,him getting thrown around and Dyspos arrogant statements and his movements when he wasn't doing his whole blitz thingy. Shouldn't this simialarly place Dyspi at MFTL speeds?
@hittheassasin: To be honest, it was never explicitly mentioned that Champa couldn't see Dyspo at all. He just remarked that he was fast and asked Vados if she could follow him. I wouldn't say there is anything proving Beerus and Champa are equals. Going by both sources, the evidence seems to be in Beerus' favor by quite a bit - pretty sure he made a fool out of Champa in the exhibition bout from Toyotaro's manga and he scoffs at the idea of fighting Champa in the anime. So basically, to scale Dyspo to MFTL speeds, we would need to assume a few things:
1. Beerus had difficulties following Dyspo
2. Champa and Beerus are comparable in speed
3. Champa was unable to keep up with Dyspo
None of which were actually confirmed and another issue with this type of scaling would be Toppo and the other mortals seemingly having no issue following the battle - Toppo was able to tell that Hit was blocking his vitals and purposely taking attacks to set Dyspo up. Furthermore, neither Beerus or Whis were ever shown having trouble keeping up with the battle and were shown casually watching it at times.
@thenewguysnm1: But will he? He never used Kaio-Ken or the Genki Dama either yet no one argues he’ll use those. TDP also brought up that he only ever used a few techniques from them.
@thenewguysnm1: But will he? He never used Kaio-Ken or the Genki Dama either yet no one argues he’ll use those. TDP also brought up that he only ever used a few techniques from them.
yeah but all fights hes been in have been relative stomps
What Dyspo does is way faster than anything DS has shown. The fight won't even take much with such fighters here so short burst argument is invalid.
Spewing the same diatribe doesn't make it right. By feats nobody in DBS has shown the amount of combat speed that MDS has displayed or perception speed. Considering that half of these characters already make a huge amount of praise for Dyspo even approaching lightspeed and going above it. Nor they have fought at that range or perceived things there.
Vegetto will Hakai even though he’s never been shown using this technique. Ever.
K.
manga goku can goku and vegeta=vegito therefore he can use it
That isn't really proof he retains all of the techniques the individuals had. Vegetto also has techniques in his arsenal that neither Goku nor Vegetta can use on their own. In short, extrodinary claims require extrodinary evidence. Otherwise, there's no reason we wouldn't give Darsh Lucien's feats like time stop.
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