Magneto vs Jean Grey & Rachel Grey

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marvelfan1992

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Current versions for all

Round 1 - morals on

Round 2 - morals off

location: Avengers Facility

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geekryan

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R1: Jean & Rachel win without much difficulty

R2: The Greys stomp

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kasya_carey

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Jean did say she’ll need Emma help to get into his deeper thoughts while he was unconscious.

Which means Psi bolts quick and simple?

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TheVoidofDeath

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Jean and Rachel have this

Greys wtfstomp

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xmen5ever

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I don't think it's a stomp, but the pair win a solid majority

@kasya_carey: Magneto has his helmet. I don't think it will be that simple

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GodlyShinigami

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Erik wrecks

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GodlyShinigami

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Jean and Rachel have this

Greys wtfstomp

No they don't Lol

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GodlyShinigami

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@geekryan said:

R1: Jean & Rachel win without much difficulty

R2: The Greys stomp

HOW ????? , What do they DO ???

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Koays

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@thevoidofdeath said:

Jean and Rachel have this

Greys wtfstomp

No they don't Lol

Current Mags is gonna have trouble holding back Rachel's offense. Jean can shield from everything he throws at her.

He puts up a fight but eventually this turns into a pingpong match between Rachel and Jean

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LordOfAllHumans

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@xmen5ever: does current Magneto hold his helmet down all the time? He was mid battle and just getting snatched by Quicksilver made it come off. Considering that, they can probably remove it.

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xmen5ever

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@lordofallhumans: To be fair, he was caught by a powerful surprise blitz in that particular instance. I would assume while knowingly facing Jean and Rachel that he would know to make sure he keeps his helmet on

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LordOfAllHumans

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@xmen5ever: that's my point. Why would it come off from a physical assault that wasn't directed at it, if he was holding it down? Doesn't seem like it would take much, especially if they work together.

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xmen5ever

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@lordofallhumans: He was practically knocked out. How was he going to keep it on when he was being beaten to death. He didn't even have shields on. That's likely not the case here where he is ready and fighting properly

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geekryan

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#15  Edited By geekryan
@godlyshinigami said:
@geekryan said:

R1: Jean & Rachel win without much difficulty

R2: The Greys stomp

HOW ????? , What do they DO ???

Magneto can arguably beat one of them, but he stands no chance against both.

Combined, their TK is stronger than his powers in offence and defence. They also have TP, and if one of them yanks off his helmet, the other uses a psi-bolt.

None of his attacks can bypass their shields either.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@xmen5ever: he wasn't knocked out until after the helmet was found. He disappeared because Quicksilver moved him away to then beat him up. His helmet was knocked off in the bfr.

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xmen5ever

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Erik wrecks

How exactly does he "wreck" ? It can be a good fight, but in no way is he wrecking them

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GodlyShinigami

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#18  Edited By GodlyShinigami

@geekryan:

Magneto can arguably beat one of them,

Arguably WHAT????? , Erik's passive output forced Jean on the defencive and he wasn't even specifically fighting her Lol , If pietro didn't show up , it would have been a massacare.

Combined, their TK is stronger than his powers in offence and defence.

No Caption Provided

Rachel is a City level TK , Jean isn't even city level herself , Erik casually moved a Large Country object at MHS Speeds and plunged it into a planet. Their TK doesn't compare to his Magnetsim.

They also have TP, and if one of them yanks off his helmet, the other TPs and it's GG.

None of them will be able to yank Erik anything of their TK is fodder to his Magnetism

Even without his helmet Jean herself states she'd need Emma's help to even see what's at the forefront of his mind , Let alone get through his defences.

No Caption Provided

His attacks can't bypass their shields either.

He has more than enough power to do so.

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GodlyShinigami

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@koays said:
@godlyshinigami said:
@thevoidofdeath said:

Jean and Rachel have this

Greys wtfstomp

No they don't Lol

Current Mags is gonna have trouble holding back Rachel's offense. Jean can shield from everything he throws at her.

He puts up a fight but eventually this turns into a pingpong match between Rachel and Jean

WHAT??? Rachels city level TK is fodder compared to Erik who can casually Move Large Country sized amounts of Iron. Her offence won't faze him. Jean isn't shieldng from His max output , I'm sure she has some shielding outliers , but at a consistent level her shields will faulter and break.

He's simply too powerful for them to deal with , if pietro didn't interveen , it would have been a massacare

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PurplehairedNi1

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SAR_Annihilator

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The Greys edge out round 1. Round 2 im going to give to Erik.

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DemonicRaveGirl

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Morcee

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GodlyShinigami

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Morcee

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#26  Edited By Morcee
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Mooty_Pass

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The Greys win.

The Problem here is that Magneto is fighting NOT 1, but 2 very powerful Telepaths and Telekinetics. It’s true yes Magneto alone could beat either one by himself, but he stands no chance against 2.

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comicbookfan32

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on average i would say magneto but i don't know enough about current power levels

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xmen5ever

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#29  Edited By xmen5ever

Greys win in a decent fight. Nothing from Trial of Magneto changes the outcome of this fight tbh. His only exchange with them was Jean shielding from his attacks, and his mind being too chaotic to gleam the information from, which doesn't really mean too much here since would not be trying to enter his mind, just attack it

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LordOfAllHumans

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Jean is only having trouble with the chaotic nature of his mind because he's unconscious and his subconscious mind is now his surface thoughts. We already know that part of the mind is no cake walk for telepaths when she teaches Quire to dreamwalk. So unless Magneto is going to be unconscious in this fight, it's not applicable.

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Koays

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@koays said:
@godlyshinigami said:
@thevoidofdeath said:

Jean and Rachel have this

Greys wtfstomp

No they don't Lol

Current Mags is gonna have trouble holding back Rachel's offense. Jean can shield from everything he throws at her.

He puts up a fight but eventually this turns into a pingpong match between Rachel and Jean

WHAT??? Rachels city level TK is fodder compared to Erik who can casually Move Large Country sized amounts of Iron. Her offence won't faze him. Jean isn't shieldng from His max output , I'm sure she has some shielding outliers , but at a consistent level her shields will faulter and break.

He's simply too powerful for them to deal with , if pietro didn't interveen , it would have been a massacare

Except it doesn't take country level damage to over power him. This is known. To say otherwise is silly.

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GodlyShinigami

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@koays:

Except it doesn't take country level damage to over power him. This is known. To say otherwise is silly.

His Magnetism is that strong though. he's capable of outputting that Amount of power , even with their combined TK They still won't be able to match him in power.

Simply put they don't have the power to compete , Erik is simply more powerful than them , there's nothing they can Do.

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GodlyShinigami

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geekryan

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Hmm...

Early 2000s Jean casting a telepathic illusion on Magneto, despite him having his helmet and his formidable psychic resistance (Uncanny X-Men vol 1 #393, X-Men vol 2 #113)

When Magneto lets Teen Jean read his mind, she used decoys to avoid his defenses and was able to dig deeper than he expected or wanted, to the point he prepared metal spears to kill her (X-Men Blue #2, 31)

Teen Jean shields herself and civilians from a Mutant Growth Hormone amped Magneto's attack and is told by Magneto that if they both go all out and not back down, that they may both end up dying. She may possibly used her pink/psi form here. (X-Men Blue #32)

Teen Jean is able to find the weak spot in Mutant Growth Hormone amped Magneto's force field and guide Cyclop's optic blasts towards it (X-Men Blue #32)

Adult/Current Jean >>>>> Teen Jean

And most recently, in X-Men: Trial of Magneto #1, a pissed off Magneto was lashing out at everyone, and Jean was able to shield from his attacks. No one except Wolverine, X-23, Daken, and Polaris attacked Magneto during this fight.

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GodlyShinigami

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#35  Edited By GodlyShinigami

@geekryan:

Hmm...

Early 2000s Jean casting a telepathic illusion on Magneto, despite him having his helmet and his formidable psychic resistance (Uncanny X-Men vol 1 #393, X-Men vol 2 #113)

That Helmet Mags was wearing wasn't TP resistant All instances of Jean and Xavier battling with Magneto and his psychic defenses before New X-Men are battling with his NATURAL psychic defenses. Before the movies came out and the Planet X story arc, Magneto's helmet never blocked TP in the 616 Universe only in the Ultimate one. So no, Jean has not ever gotten through both his helmet and mental defenses on panel.

#113)

When Magneto lets Teen Jean read his mind, she used decoys to avoid his defenses and was able to dig deeper than he expected or wanted, to the point he prepared metal spears to kill her (X-Men Blue #2, 31

He didn't have his helmet on in any of these , and His TP defences are clearly stronger now.

1)

Teen Jean shields herself and civilians from a Mutant Growth Hormone amped Magneto's attack and is told by Magneto that if they both go all out and not back down, that they may both end up dying. She may possibly used her pink/psi form here. (X-Men Blue #32)

#32)

Teen Jean is able to find the weak spot in Mutant Growth Hormone amped Magneto's force field and guide Cyclop's optic blasts towards it (X-Men Blue #32)

Adult/Current Jean >>>>> Teen Jean

Magneto's powers have increased since then , Dawn of X Mags has better feats and isn't relying on drugs to maintan his power.

Adult/Current Jean >>>>> Teen Jean

And most recently, in X-Men: Trial of Magneto #1, a pissed off Magneto was lashing out at everyone, and Jean was able to shield from his attacks. No one except Wolverine, X-23, Daken, and Polaris attacked Magneto during this fight.

Jean was forced on the defensive by Erik's passive power output , No one else was able to engage as they weren't powerful enough to , even putting This aside Erik still has the better feats.

None of the scans above Change anything , they don't have the power to compete. It's as simple as that

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GodlyShinigami

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Koays

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@koays:

Except it doesn't take country level damage to over power him. This is known. To say otherwise is silly.

His Magnetism is that strong though. he's capable of outputting that Amount of power , even with their combined TK They still won't be able to match him in power.

Simply put they don't have the power to compete , Erik is simply more powerful than them , there's nothing they can Do.

And Rachel's TK is strong enough to create blackholes. She's capable of outputting THAT amount of power.....see how irrelevant highends are?

If we look at consistency....Rachel matched Thor, KO'd Terrax and blew up the head of a dude making bloodlusted Gladiator his b*tch.....And now we're giving her a partner who drug amped and bloodlusted Magneto was worried he couldn't beat.

Magneto is stronger then either of them individually. IMO he'd beat either of them individually......but together? They are sticking there foot up his ass like their wearing steel toe boots and his butt hole is magnetic.

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GodlyShinigami

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#39  Edited By GodlyShinigami

@koays:

And Rachel's TK is strong enough to create blackholes. She's capable of outputting THAT amount of power.....see how irrelevant highends are?

Lol the feat I mentioned isn't a high End for Dawn of X Mags , he's consistently that powerful and he has no anti-feats that showcase otherwise.

If we look at consistency....Rachel matched Thor, KO'd Terrax and blew up the head of a dude making bloodlusted Gladiator his b*tch.....And now we're giving her a partner who drug amped and bloodlusted Magneto was worried he couldn't beat.

Current Mags is stronger than that Erik who had to rely on drugs Lol. Erik on drugs is worried he can't beat Jean , Dawn of X Mags has no problem facing an entire team with Jean and Rachel present,

Magneto is stronger then either of them individually. IMO he'd beat either of them individually......but together? They are sticking there foot up his ass like their wearing steel toe boots and his butt hole is magnetic.

Lol , The Red-heads get their ass kicked. Their combined TK Can't even match his Magnetism , Jean is straight up Fodder in this Battle there's nothing She can do , I'll give Rachel some Credit and say she'll last a few seconsd but after that she gets stomped.

They just don't have the Power to compete , He's just so much more powerful than them , there's nothing the Grey's can Do.

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winterssong

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I’d say stalemate for round one. Both of the Greys have powerful tk shields and I highly doubt Magneto could push through both, but I don’t think they can do that much in terms of offense either. There’s a possibility that one of them could take off his helmet with tk and tp him, but it’s very small.

Round 2 leaning towards Erik

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SirKaboom15

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Magneto wont be using his internal stuff, so Greys probably.

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Koays

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@godlyshinigami:

1- Consistently implies that he has more feats besides dropping satellites and moving a space station to add to that. He doesn't.

And a MASSIVE anti-feat for him is losing to Knull Cable and struggling with a symbiote dragon....

2- And current Jean is stronger then mediocre Teenage version he said he would stalemate....and Rachel's a stronger telekinetic then even her.....Outside of a bunch of street levelers he didn't overpower anyone but Polaris and that just made her angry. The only contact he had with a real threat was Jean casually shielding from his spikes.

And given the fact that this is a fight where he got stabbed by Daken and beat to death by Quicksilver I wouldn't be using it as an example of his massive power.

3- Again I'm not going to argue that he's strong. But he's not on their level of combined TK power and his helmet isn't enough of a defense againt their combined TP.

Rachel alone has the feats to just full on brawl with him for a time....but the whole time you'll have a fresh Jean poking at his defenses from behind a tk shield that he doesn't have the striking feats to get pass.

He's gonna put up a struggle but ultimately get his ass kicked.

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SirKaboom15

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No stomps are happening here.

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GodlyShinigami

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#44  Edited By GodlyShinigami

@koays:

Consistently implies that he has more feats besides dropping satellites and moving a space station to add to that. He doesn't.

You Claimed it's an outlier , Dawn of X Erik has no Anti-feats that showcase it is.

And a MASSIVE anti-feat for him is losing to Knull Cable and struggling with a symbiote dragon....

We don't know the Context of the Knull Cable fight Was Erik offguard? Did Knull cable sneak atatck with Body Slide? , It's to vague to call it an anti-feat considering we didn't even see the fight. Erik wasn't struggling against the symbiote Dragon Lol , He blasted it and then Cortez amps sunfire and then sunfire one-shots , there was no "struggle" So no none of these are anti-feats.

And current Jean is stronger then mediocre Teenage version he said he would stalemate....and Rachel's a stronger telekinetic then even her.....Outside of a bunch of street levelers he didn't overpower anyone but Polaris and that just made her angry. The only contact he had with a real threat was Jean casually shielding from his spikes.

Current jean being stronger than teen Jean changes absolutely nothing. Considering Current Mags is stronger than that Erik who had to rely on drugs . Erik on drugs is worried he can't beat Jean , Dawn of X Mags has no problem facing an entire team with Jean and Rachel present. His passive Output forced Jean on the defencive she didn't even attempt to counter his attacks with her TK , all she could do is defend , No one in that fight Could match Eriks power

And given the fact that this is a fight where he got stabbed by Daken and beat to death by Quicksilver I wouldn't be using it as an example of his massive power.

The only reason Daken got close was due to lynch leeching of Eriks powers and even then Erik no selled the Stab and casually sent him flying. Erik was in the middle of team busting when pietro attacked , and he wasn't even trying to fight back , this is supported by the fact that Jean states: That if northstar didn't interveen , they would have another Maximoff murder case to inform the avengers

No Caption Provided

Erik isn't a Maximoff and He has no relationship with the avengers. She's talking about pietro. This is implies that If Northstar didn't interveen Erik would have actually tried to Fight Back and killed pietro. (Considering He's already killed him , I see no reason to believe what Jean says isn't true)

3- Again I'm not going to argue that he's strong. But he's not on their level of combined TK power and his helmet isn't enough of a defense againt their combined TP.

Rachel alone has the feats to just full on brawl with him for a time....but the whole time you'll have a fresh Jean poking at his defenses from behind a tk shield that he doesn't have the striking feats to get pass.

He's gonna put up a struggle but ultimately get his ass kicked.

Unless they have displayed the ability to get through Erik's TP defences While he has a TP resistant helmet , it most definitely will be enough.

Their combined TK won't be enough , a city level and Non-city level TK combination is fodder to a Guy who an move country size objects with ease. They just don't have the Power to compete , He's just so much more powerful than them , there's nothing the Grey's can do.

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Koays

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@godlyshinigami:

1- I didn't say outliers, I said high ends.

2- Sunfire almost got taken because Magneto's blast got no sold. They had been there for a while. We don't need to know the context of the Cable fight. I'm not trying to prove Cable can beat Magneto, your trying to prove that his country level magnetism makes this fight a stomp. And of the 3 fights Magneto's been in since Dawn of X he's only won one of them.....and that required Iceman, Magma and satellites.

3- His massive output? You mean the steel spikes that even Cyclops was shooting out of the air?

4- Synch doesn't leech. He was implying that Synch was using him to gain his powers. Synch is literally on the ground behind Jean's forcefield when Magneto says that.

5- The only people who attacked Magneto were the rodent trio and Polaris. So unless your implying that Wolverine > Jean then the idea that all she could do was hide behind her shield is silly.

6- Magneto wasn't in the middle of teambusting....Scott was in the middle of preparing a blast when Pietro attacked.

7- Magneto was unconscious when Pietro was stopped.... The line "another Maximoff murder incident" means an murder that involves a Maximoff. Not that a Maximoff was murdered

8- City-Level is Rachel's lifting strength. High Tier is her striking strength.Magneto has been knocked out by less when he was even more powerful.

A guy who struggles to overpower Polaris with an amp does not have the defense to match a telekinetic capable of trading blows with Thor dropping strikes while she has another telekinetic helping her.

***********************************************************************************************************

Regardless your entire argument is based on a feat of moving things, which isn't combat applicable unless he decides to drop a country on them.

Otherwise his actual combat feats aren't there and I'm not replying anymore until he gets the feats to argue this mismatch.

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LordOfAllHumans

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@godlyshinigami: she says that after Wolverine says Quicksilver was a heartbeat from killing him. Cleary the other Maximoff murder incident would have been Pietro killing Magneto, on Krakoa causing another international incident. We saw Northstar stop Quicksilver from killing Magneto, after beating him into a coma, but Magneto was going to kill Quicksilver without the intervention of Northstar? He didn't even know how his ass was getting kicked or who was kicking it and since he's in a coma he can only guess, but he was going to kill Quicksilver without Northstar stopping Quicksilver from killing him?

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geekryan

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@godlyshinigami:

1) But Magneto still had his psychic defences, and that didn't stop early 2000s Jean from easily putting him under an illusion. Jean has a reputation of breaking through psychic defences, i.e. Juggernaut, Storm, Onslaught, etc. And since the early 2000s, Jean has gotten much more powerful.

2) A much weaker version of Jean was able to dig deep into Magneto's mind and avoid his defences. She was strolling through his brain like it was a walk in the park. And again, current/adult Jean is MUCH more powerful.

Please prove how current Magneto's psychic defences are better, because Emma Frost in IvX would beg to differ.

3) With the exception of a few high-end feats, Magneto has not become significantly more powerful since mid-2018. Keep in mind that this was TEEN Jean, up against an amped Magneto.

4) Jean wasn't forced on the defensive lol. You keep making this same head canon argument that Magneto was so powerful that no one would even try to stop him. That's a ridiculous argument lol. When do the X-Men just not attack a hostile opponent because they are powerful??? Jean was protecting herself and others because Magneto was going crazy. Magneto was using AoE attacks against everyone there. He was targeting everyone there.

In this same issue, Storm states that he is not the most powerful member of the Quiet Council.

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#48 Olorun  Online
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