Madelyne Pryor runs a telepathy gauntlet

Maddelyne only has her own power and only access to Telepathy

Everyone is morals on but fighting hard

Round 1 - Karma

Round 2 - Martha

Round 3 - Quentin Quire

Round 4 - Jeen

Round 5 - Base Cable

Round 6 - Stepford Cuckoos (3)

Round 7 - Psylocke

Round 8 - Pre-Shaman Nate

Round 9 - Sinister

Round 10 - Rachel

Round 11 - Exodus'

Round 12 - Emma Frost

@marvelfan1992: Healed each round?

Could stop at 1 if Karma goes for her mind control first if not she stops at 3

im pretty sure theres a hard stop at 5... i think Cable already has a win over her also im not sure i like how low Base Cable is.

3 and 4 will give her a hard time but she would take a majority

She may lose at 5

6 and 7 she loses a majority

Hard stop at 8

See...I wanna say she stops at Base Cable, but I feel like that's a little bias considering I'm knee deep in Cable feats right now.

Honestly I feel like she'd give the Cuckoos and Psylocke a hard time if we scale her power feats....

I'll say she stops at Psylocke (mostly because I don't feel like looking for feats again) but if she beats her its gonna be because of Psylockes lack of power feats.

Regardless Pre-Shaman is hard stopping her.

@koays: Psylocke's lack of power......

@marveld2: Hey give me a Psylocke feat that's up there with pulling Cables consciousness onto the Astral Plane while hes meditating and then again when hes locked in an Apocalypse trap that even Jean and X-Man couldnt get through.

Maddie is like a Shadowking but with credibility.

Stops at the Cuckoos or definitely stops at Psylocke

@koays: Ok.....

• Her full focus of her Telepathy is capable of affecting a city (Causing mental pain to everyone)
• Overpowers Nate's mind control on Storm/Archangel
• Breaks through the Psychic Defences of Apocalypse/Ghost rider/Rouge/Mystique/Juggernaut/Archangel (All them powerful psi shields)
• Senses Terminus/legion's thoughts (Very powerful Telepaths in their own right)

Stops at 6 or 7.

Stops a quire

might stop 3-5

I say Maddie stops at 6 or 7.

•Karma will be overwhelmed.

•Martha will be overwhelmed.

•Quentin lacks the proper skill and is too cocky for his own good.

•Teen Jean Has been pulled to the Astral Plane multiple times and lacks the overall experience Maddie gained from the real Jean.

•Base Cable has a chance of winning, but I could bargain Maddie would make use of her psychic vampirism while having Cable deal with illusions or take him to the Astral Plane to fight the world around him.

•Stepford Cuckoos might have the skill to match Maddie. I don’t know if she will steamroll them or not. She can most certainly perform the same feat of dragging them into her mind like she did Jean.

•Psylocke would most likely win given her experience with Shadow King. There is the chance that Maddie could go for mind-control like last time, but Betsy to her credit broke out from the mind-control.

This

I haven't seen this character in a debate in forever!

the issue says madelyne got him because his mind was open due to the meditation. What is so special about dragging someone that isn't resisting to the astral plane? Psylocke brought the whole team to the astral plane in astonishing. A barely telepath Jean did it in the muir island saga. And madelyne is a psychic ghost in these times so that's probably why she even does astral plane things.

What does madelyne have that's on par with psylocke that isn't just some astral plane dragging or done while tapping into a different power like the phoenix shard or nate grey or that is mixed with magic?

@onsipin: She's never not tapped power from somewhere else. The closest example being her pulling Cable to the astral plane during the 12.

@koays: ok the 12 circuit was preventing those trapped from using their powers so why is her pulling two powerless people into the astral plane a feat? I don't remember it being a machine that prevented outside forces from getting in. When she pulled Cable (with his defenses down) into the astral plane before then he was "trapped" but he also wasn't trying to leave. The urgency in the issue was coming from Jean and Scott thinking he was in danger because Jean initially couldn't just waltz in his mind, but when she started to break through Maddie basically ran away.

@koays: thanks for confirming my suspicion. in that case I don't see how she would even be comparable to psylocke anyone from 3 onwards aside from being Jean's clone. Is that really enough to say she could take anyone starting from Kid OMega?

Everyone from Quentin and above has feats against other telepaths. All Madelyne has done is bring people to the astral plane which isn't that impressive since a barely telepath Jean can do that and madelyne was a psychic ghost in most of the instances which is most likely why she has a unique control of the astral plane

@onsipin: Madelyne has feats against telepaths. Just not high tiers (with exception of Rachel, but that has context). She beat Sage on the Astral Plane, she has trapped 90’s Jean in her mind before with some context, she has matched Nate’s power by draining him of his powers, she has mind-controlled a newly resurrected Psylocke for a time, has neutralized Rachel as a threat after being resurrected by Arkea, and her control of the Astral Plane can be used in telepathic combat since it is the realm of psychic energy and thought. And you can’t really low-ball Maddie’s ability to take people to the Astral Plane when she casually does it to Scott and Cable while captured by Apocalypse with containment units that not even Jean or Cable were capable of breaking through psychically.

Like @koays said before, she is like the Shadow King, but with actual feats that don’t require prep. Her power is gonna come from somewhere if she doesn’t have any for herself. Her psychic vampirism and her ability to wield power on par with Nate Grey is what makes her a threat. She faces someone, she can take their power casually and use it against them.

@pyrofn:

• She beat Sage on the Astral Plane - not impressive
• he has trapped 90’s Jean in her mind before with some context - "with some context"
• she has matched Nate’s power by draining him of his power - she has a special connection to him. And at the time she was a psychic entity that Nate made real, she was like a psychic vampire. This thread is just a regular telepath Madelyne or that's what i'm understanding. As I told koays i think the OP should be edited to clarify this further. @marvelfan1992
• she has mind-controlled a newly resurrected Psylocke for a time - could you send the scan for this again or issue numbers. Are we certain it was telepathy and not magic?
• her control of the Astral Plane can be used in telepathic combat since it is the realm of psychic energy and thought -again her feats from the astral plane were from a time where she was mostly a psychic ghost and vampire
• And you can’t really low-ball Maddie’s ability to take people to the Astral Plane when she casually does it to Scott and Cable while captured by Apocalypse with containment units that not even Jean or Cable were capable of breaking through psychically - psychic ghosts have a unique control of the astral plane and possession. Look at Jean's ghost she smacked Dr. Strange away on the Astral plane and was jumping into people possessing them

@onsipin said:

@pyrofn:

• She beat Sage on the Astral Plane - not impressive

Not for high tiers no. But the ones we are talking about aren't high tiers.

• he has trapped 90’s Jean in her mind before with some context - "with some context"

So you know what that context is? Or are you simply using something I said to further your point without knowing why?

• she has matched Nate’s power by draining him of his power - she has a special connection to him. And at the time she was a psychic entity that Nate made real, she was like a psychic vampire. This thread is just a regular telepath Madelyne or that's what i'm understanding. As I told koays i think the OP should be edited to clarify this further.

She has drained others before as well. Nate is merely the best example. And it doesn’t matter if we are dealing with ghost or real Maddie. We aren’t going to assume that her psychic vampirism is gone because she has a physical body.

• she has mind-controlled a newly resurrected Psylocke for a time - could you send the scan for this again or issue numbers. Are we certain it was telepathy and not magic?

I see no reason to envoke magic when you only need to think to control someone.

• her control of the Astral Plane can be used in telepathic combat since it is the realm of psychic energy and thought -again her feats from the astral plane were from a time where she was mostly a psychic ghost and vampire

Okay? So? I highly doubt that ability would go away with a physical body.

• And you can’t really low-ball Maddie’s ability to take people to the Astral Plane when she casually does it to Scott and Cable while captured by Apocalypse with containment units that not even Jean or Cable were capable of breaking through psychically - psychic ghosts have a unique control of the astral plane and possession. Look at Jean's ghost she smacked Dr. Strange away on the Astral plane and was jumping into people possessing them

That is more credit to Jean than it would be to her ghostly form. Doctor Strange should be no stranger to specters the like. Not only that, but Jean has feats the Astral Plane and possessing people before.

@pyrofn:

1. I don't see any of the mid tiers struggling with Sage

2. i'm very well aware of the context. Even if she said she no longer needed Nate we know for a fact she was still tied to him and his powers

3. Who has she drained aside from him and Threnody? I don't recall. Also, if she doesn't have feats draining when she is in a regular body, why would we assume she can? Or at least to the same extent. There could be a huge difference between being a psychic ghost and a regular mutant telepath

4. well she is mentioning magic and spells at the same so it's not out of the question, but controlling a newly revived Betsy from this era is decent

5. Because she's not shown these feats while in a regular body if i'm not mistaken

6. And yet we never use ghost Jean as a feat for regular Jean. Why should we do it to Maddie when there seems to be a distinction of being a ghost and not

And that's when it gets murky because we don't know when she was replaced by Queen Jean who did have the draining power. Queen Jean said she'd replaced Maddie months ago and Maddie became evil and had draining powers, tk, tp, and teleportation just like Queen Jean had and couldn't be uncreated by Nate right after she attacked Threnody. After they did the reveal it would seem she couldn't be undone because he didn't create Queen Jean. It's my opinion that she took over Maddie after the fight with Sage unlocked Maddie's memories and then Jean took over because Maddie became self aware and that was a threat to her plans so that should have been when Maddie was banished to the astral plane as a ghost.

@lordofallhumans: I forget that was a thing lmao. I'm going over his solo again this weekend so i'll keep an eye out for that

Uhm well in general for my psychic threads what I have in mind is a purely TP confrontation, hence me always restriction psi-leeching and pink ranger. I didn't expand on the OP because I was already falling asleep at the time lmao, my bad. Well the Maddie I had in mind is strictly regular human body telepath Maddie, without focus on the psi-leeching and shit. But now that you guys mention it, and as @koays said she's never really been without drawing power from other sources, I guess the thread is a vague since she as a character is very confusing. I'll maybe update the OP after i've gone over Nate's solo again this weekend

@pyrofn: Yea, see I'm just trying to figure out which Maddie were dealing with..because it's easy to lowball her if their saying "oh shes as powerful as 90s jean"

Meanwhile we have her draining power from X-man enough to beat back him an Jean for a while.

And that's close to the power level she operates at most of the time.

I don't get why its assumed that Apocalypses tech wouldnt shield from psychics from the outside considering its Apocalypse for 1, and that their were at least 4 of the most powerful minds on the planet there.

loljk. Now that I think about it, every time she appears she's practically a different person it's hard to choose a specific version

Because Jean has already done these things in her history. She can manipulate the psychic plane, she has possessed a body, and so on and so forth. Things you don’t include are things like being intangible.

@marvelfan1992 said:

@koays said:

@pyrofn: Yea, see I'm just trying to figure out which Maddie were dealing with..because it's easy to lowball her if their saying "oh shes as powerful as 90s jean"

Meanwhile we have her draining power from X-man enough to beat back him an Jean for a while.

And that's close to the power level she operates at most of the time.

I don't get why its assumed that Apocalypses tech wouldnt shield from psychics from the outside considering its Apocalypse for 1, and that their were at least 4 of the most powerful minds on the planet there.

loljk. Now that I think about it, every time she appears she's practically a different person it's hard to choose a specific version

I think the only real distinction we can make is: is this Goblin Queen or is it Madelyne. That’s the only real distinction we can make. Gets too complicated otherwise.

Isn't Goblin Queen around the same level as Phoenix in telepathy?

@somayareece: Goblin Queen was Phoenix. Maddie was given life and those latent powers unlocked by demons, by a fraction of the Phoenix Jean rejected. Outside of that she was a lifeless, powerless failed experiment.

@somayareece: It depends what you mean by Goblin Queen. If you mean Madelyne during the Inferno arc, then technically her powers came from the phoenix force spark inside her, but she doesn't actually have that great telepathy feats so no her telepathy is not really on the same level as Jean

@koays: he already had those telepaths though so who would he have been shielding the outside from? He didn't know Maddie was a thing, and apparently didn't think much of the remaining telepaths outside of the 4 he had.

@lordofallhumans: But it's like, its Apocalypse, why not?

Hes fought the Avengers already by that point and other heroes. Fought Onslaught.

Why not?

I'm not saying WOW THIS IS A AWESOME FEAT, but a dead person pulling 2people captured by Apocalypse onto the Astral plane and offering to save Cable. That counts for something

@koays: I guess I can see that being a possibility. I just feel like you need mystic wards to keep ghosts out, but that may be the Jean ghost being stopped by them in that magic restaurant being fresh in my mind.

Eh, I was thinking a hard stop at 6. Like super hard stop.

This

Round 3 is where she stops.

Definitely stops at 6. Could see her losing anywhere from 3-5 too though

@martinceld: it took 5 cuckoos + cerebro to beat Kid Omega. How are 3 cuckoos better than Quentin?

@sentryvoid7: He was hopped up on Kick for months, that greatly amped him, and once the Sophie got her amp, they stomped Quire badly.

He was definitely superior to the Cuckoos before. He had them hiding from him in a closet and all that, but they improved over time more than he did. Later on in their careers, the 3-in-1 defeated Quire and casually put him under an illusion. They are more skilled than him

You can check out their respect thread here

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/stepford-cuckoos/4060-4443/forums/sisterhood-of-the-hive-a-stepford-cuckoo-respect-t-2015688/

Stops at the Cuckoos

@sentryvoid7: Quire was on Kick when he faced the 5 in 1 which is why they went for amps....and they not only 1 shot him but basically killed him.

When he finally came back and possessed Cerebro they basically laughed at him and ripped him out of it.

The next time he ran into them they mind screwed him into thinking he solo'd a team of X-Men and made out with Jean Grey....

Quire is 0 and life against the Cuckoos.

Anyway I'm saying she stops at Cable

Karma

@koays: sure