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Posted by Gilateen (4035 posts) 7 months, 28 days ago

Poll: Madara Uchiha vs Yhwach (159 votes)

Madara 42%
Yhwach 48%
Stalemate 9%

Madara Is in Six paths and Yhwach has his almighty

Chakra=Reiashu

Battle takes Place At the Battlefield

No Caption Provided

Win By K.O or DEATH

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No Caption Provided

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#201 Posted by KalebMcShaw (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: you are arguing with a troll, save the effort

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#202 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@gilateen: which won't do anything when Ichibei whose power was to take away the name of something and replace it with a new name functionality and power got thwarted by Almighty absolutely.

And since names equal power in Bleach that's a very big deal.

Yhwach didn't care.

You need feats to prove any Genjutsu will effect Future vision like KS does.

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#203 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalebmcshaw: Lol I'm like putting in so little effort this doesn't bug me.

Btw they are trying to argue with someone who knows about both verses through and through.

No Genjutsu has shown to effect anything on the Almighty's lvl to claim any Genjutsu can without evidence is a fallacy.

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#204 Posted by Gilateen (4035 posts) - - Show Bio

@kalebmcshaw: madara still stomps, yhwach has no resistance against illusions

Online
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#205 Posted by great_black_star (3341 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star: you seem to be mistaken KS was no where near enough to beat yhwach. As seen when he was rag dolling aizen and still resurrected himself while under it's spell. Not to mention that any injuries immediately knock you out of genjutsu

KS is enough to make a fool out of him. That is all Madara need to crush Ywach

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#206 Edited by TheEmperor95 (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star: make a fool? You mean removing your opponents arm and blasting a hole through their chest makes you look like a fool? Who knew

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#207 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95 said:

@great_black_star: you seem to be mistaken KS was no where near enough to beat yhwach. As seen when he was rag dolling aizen and still resurrected himself while under it's spell. Not to mention that any injuries immediately knock you out of genjutsu

KS is enough to make a fool out of him. That is all Madara need to crush Ywach

Not sure how considering Yhwach was still slapping Aizen about while under KS so your point makes no sense.

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#208 Edited by Kayc (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: IT does not require the moon bro. The moon is only needed to reflect the light generated by the eye for it to be cast on the whole world at the same time. The moon itself has nothing to do with IT. The moon only gives IT long range

Lol, IT worked on people with illusion resistance. Show me feats of Almighty countering illusions. You can't because it doesn't have it. Almighty was fucked by KS illusions. Bruh Yhwach gets fucked by IT

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#209 Posted by Kayc (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: Bro, KS isn't always active. The Vizards are n't always under KS for the past 100 years. It's only when KS is activated do they fall under it again. IT is proven longer for the fact it kept people (now Zetsu's) inside for more than 1000 yrs since Kaguya casted it.

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#210 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@kayc said:

@codevein: IT does not require the moon bro. The moon is only needed to reflect the light generated by the eye for it to be cast on the whole world at the same time. The moon itself has nothing to do with IT. The moon only gives IT long range

Lol, IT worked on people with illusion resistance. Show me feats of Almighty countering illusions. You can't because it doesn't have it. Almighty was fucked by KS illusions. Bruh Yhwach gets fucked by IT

Except it does as Madara was making preparation for IT because he needed the friggin moon.

Literally if he didnt need the moon he would have ran around the battlefield putting everyone in it.

Show you feats of Yhwach countering illusions?

How about the fact he was taggin Aizen left and right under the effects of KS when no one has ever been able to do so prior.

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#211 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@kayc: gonna keep debating in bad faith?

Infinite Tsukuyomi. To cast a genjutsu of this scale, the user's Rinne Sharingan must be reflected off of the moon.

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#212 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@kayc: Except it was.

Because when the Vizard showed up to battle Aizen they weren't hitting him and were idiotically attacking allies which prompts Ichigo to scream at them asking them what the hell they were doing.

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#213 Edited by Kayc (592 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein: the moon was a medium to cast it at once to the entire population and every fricking creature on the surface of the Earth. Madara wouldn't be able to cast it at that range without the moon. The genjutsu itself is a light not the moon. The moon does not have any jutsu properties, it's just a reflective body.

You are trying too hard. Yhwach was utterly affected by KS illusions, Aizen chose to fight him close quarter and got hit, not that Yhwach resisted anything. Neither Aizen nor Yhwach gave any indication that Yhwach himself was resisting. So your resistance feat is merely head canon.

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#214 Posted by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:
@kayc said:

@codevein: IT does not require the moon bro. The moon is only needed to reflect the light generated by the eye for it to be cast on the whole world at the same time. The moon itself has nothing to do with IT. The moon only gives IT long range

Lol, IT worked on people with illusion resistance. Show me feats of Almighty countering illusions. You can't because it doesn't have it. Almighty was fucked by KS illusions. Bruh Yhwach gets fucked by IT

Except it does as Madara was making preparation for IT because he needed the friggin moon.

Literally if he didnt need the moon he would have ran around the battlefield putting everyone in it.

Show you feats of Yhwach countering illusions?

How about the fact he was taggin Aizen left and right under the effects of KS when no one has ever been able to do so prior.

Already wrong on the first point: Before the moon was created, Kaguya used it on people.Even funnier is that Madara literally used it on Obito before explaining he needed the power of the juubi and the moon to cast it on the entire planet.

Second, he couldn't run around using it, because Naruto and Sasuke were there to stop him if he did. The enitre reason he even dropped all of those meteors was to distract Naruto and Sasuke so he had enough time to fly up and begin the jutsu.

Those aren't even feats of countering illusions...that's him just ragdolling Aizen who was disguised as Ichigo....he still didn't know it wasn't Ichigo.

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#215 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:
@codevein said:
@kayc said:

@codevein: IT does not require the moon bro. The moon is only needed to reflect the light generated by the eye for it to be cast on the whole world at the same time. The moon itself has nothing to do with IT. The moon only gives IT long range

Lol, IT worked on people with illusion resistance. Show me feats of Almighty countering illusions. You can't because it doesn't have it. Almighty was fucked by KS illusions. Bruh Yhwach gets fucked by IT

Except it does as Madara was making preparation for IT because he needed the friggin moon.

Literally if he didnt need the moon he would have ran around the battlefield putting everyone in it.

Show you feats of Yhwach countering illusions?

How about the fact he was taggin Aizen left and right under the effects of KS when no one has ever been able to do so prior.

Already wrong on the first point: Before the moon was created, Kaguya used it on people.Even funnier is that Madara literally used it on Obito before explaining he needed the power of the juubi and the moon to cast it on the entire planet.

Second, he couldn't run around using it, because Naruto and Sasuke were there to stop him if he did. The enitre reason he even dropped all of those meteors was to distract Naruto and Sasuke so he had enough time to fly up and begin the jutsu.

Those aren't even feats of countering illusions...that's him just ragdolling Aizen who was disguised as Ichigo....he still didn't know it wasn't Ichigo.

Except You're wrong because it explicitly states she used a moon to do it too....

Aizen was disguised as Ichigo, Renji and himself and Yhwach was still able to damage him under the effects of KS.

You literally don't know the hell you are talking about go read the info on IT

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#216 Edited by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@kayc said:

@codevein: the moon was a medium to cast it at once to the entire population and every fricking creature on the surface of the Earth. Madara wouldn't be able to cast it at that range without the moon. The genjutsu itself is a light not the moon. The moon does not have any jutsu properties, it's just a reflective body.

You are trying too hard. Yhwach was utterly affected by KS illusions, Aizen chose to fight him close quarter and got hit, not that Yhwach resisted anything. Neither Aizen nor Yhwach gave any indication that Yhwach himself was resisting. So your resistance feat is merely head canon.

No according to the Outright info we have on IT you need the moon to say otherwise is headcanon.

Doesn't matter because you can't prove Genjutsu can mess with an ability that extends to all future timelines.

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#217 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Kaguya Ōtsutsuki uses Yomotsu Hirasaka to create a portal to a dimension containing a moon;

^^ You need the damn moon.

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#218 Edited by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein:

Except You're wrong because it explicitly states she used a moon to do it too....

This is a telltale sign you don't know what you're talking about. Nowhere was it stated Kaguya used the moon to cast the genjutsu. Post the scan where it's stated she did so especially considering that Kaguya used this genjutsu at a time when the moon DIDN'T exist.

I see nothing said about the moon, just her Rinne-sharingan and her Byakugan.
I see nothing said about the moon, just her Rinne-sharingan and her Byakugan.

Aizen was disguised as Ichigo, Renji and himself and Yhwach was still able to damage him under the effects of KS.

That's not proof of illusion resistance. The entire point of that was to trick Yhwach into believing he was doing a number on Ichigo....it WORKED.

You literally don't know the hell you are talking about go read the info on IT

I believe it's the other way around considering what you told me AFTER THIS. See below.

@codevein said:

@azureus: Kaguya Ōtsutsuki uses Yomotsu Hirasaka to create a portal to a dimension containing a moon;

^^ You need the damn moon.

This, my confused friend, was anime filler. This never actually happened, it was part of the Kaguya filler arc. You don't need the damn moon to cast this genjutsu, Madara used it on Obito. Why speak about this, when you don't know the details.

No Caption Provided

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#219 Edited by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

@codevein:

Except You're wrong because it explicitly states she used a moon to do it too....

This is a telltale sign you don't know what you're talking about. Nowhere was it stated Kaguya used the moon to cast the genjutsu. Post the scan where it's stated she did so.

I see nothing said about the moon, just her Rinne-sharingan and her Byakugan.
I see nothing said about the moon, just her Rinne-sharingan and her Byakugan.

Aizen was disguised as Ichigo, Renji and himself and Yhwach was still able to damage him under the effects of KS.

That's not proof of illusion resistance. The entire point of that was to trick Yhwach into believing he was doing a number on Ichigo....it WORKED.

You literally don't know the hell you are talking about go read the info on IT

I believe it's the other way around considering what you told me AFTER THIS. See below.

@codevein said:

@azureus: Kaguya Ōtsutsuki uses Yomotsu Hirasaka to create a portal to a dimension containing a moon;

^^ You need the damn moon.

This, my confused friend, was anime filler. This never actually happened, it was part of the Kaguya filler arc. You don't need the damn moon to cast this genjutsu, Madara used it on Obito. Why speak about this, when you don't know the details.

No Caption Provided

Says nowhere there that Tobi is within IT only Tsukuyomi.

IE what Itachi did to Sasuke and Kakashi.

Direct info says IT needs a moon the scan also says populace you cant physically make eye contact with a full populace..

The stage was set for Kaguya to return with the God tree the moon being out for IT and Madara meeting all requirements.

Everything points to the moon the Direct info clearly state you need the moon to do so.

If she could IT anyone at any given time same with Madara Sakura and Naruto alongside anyone who fought Rikudo Madara would have been screwed they are not.

IT states it needs the Moon which is why Madara's grandmaster plan was this.

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#220 Edited by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Because as we know Regular Tsukuyomi can be casted without a moon the only difference between the two is one is permanent because the moon is constantly reflecting it.

Still has no feats of interacting with any whose sight goes across all future timelines.

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#221 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Actually i'm laughing at this cause according to Zetsu you need the Tree alongside the moon lmao.

Why would Madara get the tree in a battle between himself and Yhwach?

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#222 Posted by uchihaghost (955 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: And what level do you think zetsu is at?? Black zetsu is not a normal character, dude is just a pigment, he doesn't behave like normal humans with materialistic physical body. And you know you're reaching when you bring in BZ as your counter argument lol.

Black zetsu was the only character in naruto that could do what he did to madara.

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#223 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: And what level do you think zetsu is at?? Black zetsu is not a normal character, dude is just a pigment, he doesn't behave like normal humans with materialistic physical body. And you know you're reaching when you bring in BZ as your counter argument lol.

Black zetsu was the only character in naruto that could do what he did to madara.

> Only char.

> Guy damn near kills, only char my ass.

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#224 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

@uchihaghost: black zetsu admitted he would get fodderize by kakashi and minato also a nearly dead photo could stop him from detaching. Black zetsu only decent feat is punching madara which in turn makes madara seem worse

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#225 Posted by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein:

Says nowhere there that Tobi is within IT only Tsukuyomi.

Madara is literally talking about the eye of the moon plan in that scan, he's talking about IT. You're just proving you don't know what you're talking about.

IE what Itachi did to Sasuke and Kakashi.

Tsukuyomi is a jutsu that is unique to only Itachi...and it's vastly different from IT. Again, what the hell are you talking about?

Direct info says IT needs a moon....

Yeah to affect the WHOLE planet.

the scan also says populace you cant physically make eye contact with a full populace...

Eye contact is not what is required, the reflection of the light is the genjutsu itself. Populace only refers to people living in a particular area...so this is not impossible at all for Kaguya to affect large groups of people here.

Second, the moon did not exist at this point in time, so on that count alone, you are wrong. Stop trolling.

The stage was set for Kaguya to return with the God tree the moon being out for IT and Madara meeting all requirements.

What does this even prove?

Everything points to the moon the Direct info clearly state you need the moon to do so.

Except for the fact that Kaguya used this genjutsu several times in the past without there EVEN BEING a moon and Madara used it later on Obito. False.

If she could IT anyone at any given time same with Madara Sakura and Naruto alongside anyone who fought Rikudo Madara would have been screwed they are not.

Headcanon, because the entire point was to cast it on the entire planet. How would Madara prepare for the jutsu in the middle of combat?

IT states it needs the Moon...

To cast it on the entire planet. I don't get what's so hard to see.

which is why Madara's grandmaster plan was this.

You don't know what you're saying.

Because as we know Regular Tsukuyomi can be casted without a moon...

The jutsu Madara and Kaguya used was not Itachi's Tsukuyomi, he's the only one with that jutsu.

the only difference between the two is one is permanent because the moon is constantly reflecting it.

WRONG. The moon actually stops reflecting the jutsu. Hence why Naruto and Sasuke could stop using the Susanoo to block out the light. The reason the jutsu is permanent is because it keeps the user trapped in the dream, like Hagoromo said.

Still has no feats of interacting with any whose sight goes across all future timelines.

Oof. KS trolled the Almighty, and KS is basic level compared to the stuff in Naruto. Yhwach is getting trolled hard.

Actually i'm laughing at this cause according to Zetsu you need the Tree alongside the moon lmao.

This again is a tell tale sign you don't know what you're talking about. This was Obito's method of casting IT, he would use the Rinne-sharingan at the top of the tree to cast the genjutsu. Madara absorbed the tree and gained the Rinnesharingan on his forehead, thereby eliminating the need for the tree.

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#226 Posted by KingogKings777 (2169 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein said:

@kayc: Aizen didn't turn off KS.

Yhwach broke KS the effects were still active.

Yhwach then gets killed by Ichigo rewrites his death comes back slaps Aizen and remarks the effects of KS has ended.

Nah shit he just died and since he was dead it had ended.

Or it ended after he touched him since that was the requirement for it beforehand.

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#227 Posted by KingogKings777 (2169 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:
@codevein said:
@kayc said:

@codevein: IT does not require the moon bro. The moon is only needed to reflect the light generated by the eye for it to be cast on the whole world at the same time. The moon itself has nothing to do with IT. The moon only gives IT long range

Lol, IT worked on people with illusion resistance. Show me feats of Almighty countering illusions. You can't because it doesn't have it. Almighty was fucked by KS illusions. Bruh Yhwach gets fucked by IT

Except it does as Madara was making preparation for IT because he needed the friggin moon.

Literally if he didnt need the moon he would have ran around the battlefield putting everyone in it.

Show you feats of Yhwach countering illusions?

How about the fact he was taggin Aizen left and right under the effects of KS when no one has ever been able to do so prior.

Already wrong on the first point: Before the moon was created, Kaguya used it on people.Even funnier is that Madara literally used it on Obito before explaining he needed the power of the juubi and the moon to cast it on the entire planet.

Second, he couldn't run around using it, because Naruto and Sasuke were there to stop him if he did. The enitre reason he even dropped all of those meteors was to distract Naruto and Sasuke so he had enough time to fly up and begin the jutsu.

Those aren't even feats of countering illusions...that's him just ragdolling Aizen who was disguised as Ichigo....he still didn't know it wasn't Ichigo.

Biggest plot hole this side of the universe other then the filler where she opened a portal for a moon.

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#228 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

@codevein:

Says nowhere there that Tobi is within IT only Tsukuyomi.

Madara is literally talking about the eye of the moon plan in that scan, he's talking about IT. You're just proving you don't know what you're talking about.

IE what Itachi did to Sasuke and Kakashi.

Tsukuyomi is a jutsu that is unique to only Itachi...and it's vastly different from IT. Again, what the hell are you talking about?

Direct info says IT needs a moon....

Yeah to affect the WHOLE planet.

the scan also says populace you cant physically make eye contact with a full populace...

Eye contact is not what is required, the reflection of the light is the genjutsu itself. Populace only refers to people living in a particular area...so this is not impossible at all for Kaguya to affect large groups of people here.

Second, the moon did not exist at this point in time, so on that count alone, you are wrong. Stop trolling.

The stage was set for Kaguya to return with the God tree the moon being out for IT and Madara meeting all requirements.

What does this even prove?

Everything points to the moon the Direct info clearly state you need the moon to do so.

Except for the fact that Kaguya used this genjutsu several times in the past without there EVEN BEING a moon and Madara used it later on Obito. False.

If she could IT anyone at any given time same with Madara Sakura and Naruto alongside anyone who fought Rikudo Madara would have been screwed they are not.

Headcanon, because the entire point was to cast it on the entire planet. How would Madara prepare for the jutsu in the middle of combat?

IT states it needs the Moon...

To cast it on the entire planet. I don't get what's so hard to see.

which is why Madara's grandmaster plan was this.

You don't know what you're saying.

Because as we know Regular Tsukuyomi can be casted without a moon...

The jutsu Madara and Kaguya used was not Itachi's Tsukuyomi, he's the only one with that jutsu.

the only difference between the two is one is permanent because the moon is constantly reflecting it.

WRONG. The moon actually stops reflecting the jutsu. Hence why Naruto and Sasuke could stop using the Susanoo to block out the light. The reason the jutsu is permanent is because it keeps the user trapped in the dream, like Hagoromo said.

Still has no feats of interacting with any whose sight goes across all future timelines.

Oof. KS trolled the Almighty, and KS is basic level compared to the stuff in Naruto. Yhwach is getting trolled hard.

Actually i'm laughing at this cause according to Zetsu you need the Tree alongside the moon lmao.

This again is a tell tale sign you don't know what you're talking about. This was Obito's method of casting IT, he would use the Rinne-sharingan at the top of the tree to cast the genjutsu. Madara absorbed the tree and gained the Rinnesharingan on his forehead, thereby eliminating the need for the tree.

No it isnt Madara used Tsukuyomi on a random fodder ninja while he was stretching his limbs whooping the shinobi alliance.

No Zetsu outright says in your scan they get pulled into the tree during it.

If Madara didn't need the moon For IT it would have never been his whole plan.

KS isnt basic. Genjutsu can be broken by overflowing ones chakra outside of Izanami and Tsukuyomi.

KS which was active on Yhwach before he had almighty and only worked because he didn't have it when it was placed on him.

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#229 Edited by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

Ten-Tails Rinne Sharingan

Infinite Tsukuyomi cast through the God Tree's blossoming flower.

To cast a genjutsu of this scale, the user's Rinne Sharingan must be reflected off of the moon. The exact method of achieving this varies from user to user: in the anime Kaguya Ōtsutsuki uses Yomotsu Hirasaka to create a portal to a dimension containing a moon;Obito Uchiha produces the Ten-Tails and transforms it into a construct of the God Tree, which has a Rinne Sharingan within the blooming flower at its top;Madara Uchiha, per his Eye of the Moon Plan, flies into the sky and reflects his own Rinne Sharingan off of the moon.

Once cast, the penetrating light of the Infinite Tsukuyomi shines across the world, bright enough to dispel the night for as long as it is active. All those who fall under its gaze are trapped in the genjutsu, with the Rinnegan's design reflecting in their eyes to represent its influence. Victims of the Infinite Tsukuyomi are rendered immobile so long as they are under its effects, allowing them to easily be wrapped by the God Tree's roots using God: Nativity of a World of Trees. Over the course of years, those connected to the tree in this manner are gradually drained of their life energy, personalities and defining features, reducing them to shells of their former selves and ultimately converting them into White Zetsu while at the same time, producing a new Chakra Fruit in the process. The user can also draw upon the chakra of those bound to the tree, causing it to erupt from the ground and enter their own body. In the anime, the technique seemed to need perfecting as Kaguya discovered in her first usage: most of those trapped in Infinite Tsukuyomi such as Haori died after being trapped in the genjutsu instead of being converted into White Zetsu.

Certain individuals are immune to the Infinite Tsukuyomi. The dead, such as those brought back with the Impure World Reincarnation, are impervious to the Infinite Tsukuyomi. White Zetsu, Black Zetsu, and those whose body Black Zetsu coats are also unaffected. A Rinnegan user can block the light of the Infinite Tsukuyomi, saving themselves and those within their range from its control. In fact, Rinnegan users, through combination with the chakra of the nine tailed beasts, are the only ones capable of ending the Infinite Tsukuyomi and releasing those trapped within its dreams. Should these be possessed by two different people, they must form the rat hand seal together in order to release the technique.

Says nothing at all about not needing the moon in anyway shape or form for this technique.

Says its a damn requirement.

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#230 Posted by CodeVein (1355 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus: Before i forget says it won't effect those no longer living, well Yhwach is a spirit so its not effecting him.

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#231 Posted by ourmanuel (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

Doubtful if IT would work on Yhwach since he’s technically undead. Plus I doubt Yhwach would just let him cast it casually.

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#232 Edited by TheEmperor95 (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingogkings777: idk if this is the biggest plot hole. There's the fact that obito was still moving and alive after getting the tailed beast taken out and using rinne rebirth (despite the sage not moving for months after the former), the fact that obito death was dragged out, guy getting saved, obito linking his kamui with Kaguya even though in the 4th ninja war it's stated that can't happen and is how kakashi knew it was obito eye, sakura having more chakra than naruto clone despite the fact that she was out of chakra like 10 minutes ago and had to manually pump naruto heart, obito and kakashi moving despite the fact that naruto, sasuke and Kaguya couldn't, and sakura hitting Kaguya

Let's not forget obito being the coolest person ever...

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#233 Posted by KalebMcShaw (102 posts) - - Show Bio

If IT is such a big problem yhwach could block out the light with his black goo, like he did in the manga. Still don't see IT affecting the almighty as the only reason KS fked yhwach over was because it affected his future sight.

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#234 Posted by KingogKings777 (2169 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingogkings777: idk if this is the biggest plot hole. There's the fact that obito was still moving and alive after getting the tailed beast taken out and using rinne rebirth (despite the sage not moving for months after the former), the fact that obito death was dragged out, guy getting saved, obito linking his kamui with Kaguya even though in the 4th ninja war it's stated that can't happen and is how kakashi knew it was obito eye, sakura having more chakra than naruto clone despite the fact that she was out of chakra like 10 minutes ago and had to manually pump naruto heart, obito and kakashi moving despite the fact that naruto, sasuke and Kaguya couldn't, and sakura hitting Kaguya

Let's not forget obito being the coolest person ever...

Or Obito surviving half his brain and stuff being crushed under a rock.

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#236 Edited by great_black_star (3341 posts) - - Show Bio

@great_black_star: make a fool? You mean removing your opponents arm and blasting a hole through their chest makes you look like a fool? Who knew

Exactly you know don't know

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#237 Posted by uchihaghost (955 posts) - - Show Bio
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#238 Posted by ourmanuel (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole IT argument has so many holes in it to number

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#240 Posted by LeoTheGreatest (4801 posts) - - Show Bio

Genjutsu =/= KS.

Yhwach would just nullify or become immune to genjutsu.

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#241 Posted by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@codevein:

No it isnt Madara used Tsukuyomi on a random fodder ninja while he was stretching his limbs whooping the shinobi alliance.

No he didn't. Post the scan now.

No Zetsu outright says in your scan they get pulled into the tree during it.

What is this even referring to and how does this affect anything?

If Madara didn't need the moon For IT...

He needed the moon to affect the whole planet. His entire plan revolved around using IT to affect the WHOLE planet. What's so hard to get?

KS isnt basic.

It is, there's not a single feat KS has achieved Basic level genjutsu hasn't.

Genjutsu can be broken by overflowing ones chakra outside of Izanami and Tsukuyomi.

Not Sharingan/Rinnegan genjutsu, for this you need for someone to either tap you out of it or for it to end on it's own, or the ability to see through it. No option is available here for Yhwach.

KS which was active on Yhwach before he had almighty and only worked because he didn't have it when it was placed on him.

So? He still has no illusion resisting feats.

To cast a genjutsu of this scale...

Just after reading this part, it's evident I'm correct. The moon is needed to affect the whole planet, that's it.

in the anime Kaguya Ōtsutsuki uses Yomotsu Hirasaka to create a portal to a dimension containing a moon;

Already irrelevant. F I L L E R.

Obito Uchiha produces the Ten-Tails and transforms it into a construct of the God Tree, which has a Rinne Sharingan within the blooming flower at its top;Madara Uchiha, per his Eye of the Moon Plan, flies into the sky and reflects his own Rinne Sharingan off of the moon.

These are all methods to cast IT on a planetary scale...you are addressing absolutely nothing by repeating the same stuff. You still have no answer as to how Kaguya used this technique when there was no moon outside from non canon sources. On that count alone, it's proof enough the moon is not needed.

Says nothing at all about not needing the moon in anyway shape or form for this technique.

Quoting the FAN MADE wiki like it's an authority ain't proof.

Says its a damn requirement.

Only when casting it on a planetary scale...like the first few sentences said lmao.

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#242 Posted by COOLGUY18 (1071 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

Yhwach stomps.

Solos the narutoverse.

good day.

pls lock thread.

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#243 Edited by KalebMcShaw (102 posts) - - Show Bio

>still arguing genjutsu would affect yhwach, when it has no feats of altering future vision

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#244 Posted by COOLGUY18 (1071 posts) - - Show Bio
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#246 Posted by ourmanuel (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus:

Can regular genjutsu last for 100 years and only be broken by touching a sword? feats of IT working on dead people? Feats of it changing future sight? How would Madara know how the almighty works? why wouldn’t Yhwach just predict and nullify it?

and how does madara avoid these:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Yhwach stomps.

Solos the narutoverse.

good day.

pls lock thread.

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#247 Posted by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel:

Can regular genjutsu last for 100 years...

No, but neither has KS...so not seeing your point. That amount of time is not how long they remain affected by it, it's how long they remain vulnerable to it. By those parameters there's practically no difference at all.

and only be broken by touching a sword?

...or by having higher TP feats.

feats of IT working on dead people?

They don't exist.

Feats of it changing future sight?

KS was already capable of that so this is out.

How would Madara know how the almighty works?

He doesn't need to.

why wouldn’t Yhwach just predict and nullify it?

The same reason he failed to see it coming when Aizen released it the second time.

and how does madara avoid these:

Easy...feats of this working on someone as durable as Madara?

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#248 Posted by ourmanuel (11970 posts) - - Show Bio

@azureus said:

@ourmanuel:

Can regular genjutsu last for 100 years...

No, but neither has KS...so not seeing your point. That amount of time is not how long they remain affected by it, it's how long they remain vulnerable to it. By those parameters there's practically no difference at all.

I guess I should correct myself and say months then seeing as that’s how long Madara was able to deceive Shinji.

and only be broken by touching a sword?

...or by having higher TP feats.

Except that bleach characters do have some form of tp as evidenced by Shinji dispelling one of aizen’s illusions 100 years ago. Aizen’s KS has a rule which requires the sword to be touched for the illusions to be broken. Genjutsu Kai won’t work here

feats of IT working on dead people?

They don't exist.

Couldn’t work on the undead in its verse yet how is it meant to work on a spirit from another verse.

Feats of it changing future sight?

KS was already capable of that so this is out.

Well KS and IT work differently seeing as IT works by putting you in a dream.

How would Madara know how the almighty works?

He doesn't need to.

Yet Aizen needed to.

why wouldn’t Yhwach just predict and nullify it?

The same reason he failed to see it coming when Aizen released it the second time.

Except that Aizen had him under ks from the very beginning in muken and Yhwach still nullified it right before he began absorbing Aizen. Yhwach’s power already gives him knowledge on abilities so he would already know about how IT works and either dimension hop and come back after it’s light stops shining, or outright nullify it like he did to ichibe’s attack or aizen’s KS or renji’s bankai.

and how does madara avoid these:

Easy...feats of this working on someone as durable as Madara?

I really don’t want to get into this argument, but it was able to pierce bankai ichigo who was many more times powerful than dangai to the point where his reiatsu was visible. Not to mention the fact that Yhwach’s attacks bypass defenses as shown against orihime’s Santen Kesshun. Madara however, was cleaved in half by sasuke’s chidori spear in base.

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#249 Posted by Azureus (2714 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel:

I guess I should correct myself and say months then seeing as that’s how long Madara Aizen was able to deceive Shinji.

Then Obito suits this fine because he had the 3rd Mizukage in a spell for years.

Except that bleach characters do have some form of tp as evidenced by Shinji dispelling one of aizen’s illusions 100 years ago.

Emphasis on BETTER TP feats. I expect scans if this is the case.

Aizen’s KS has a rule which requires the sword to be touched for the illusions to be broken. Genjutsu Kai won’t work here

There's nothing indicating it would work at all against dojutsu especially because someone like Unohana was able to tell something was fishy. Any dojutsu blinks that shit away considering what the Rinnegan has gone up against.

Couldn’t work on the undead in its verse yet how is it meant to work on a spirit from another verse.

Because Bleach's version of the afterlife literally mirrors the physical world, the only different being the kind of matter they're made with. Not to mention this means absolutely nothing because it's only edo tensei that are immune, not simply dead souls.

Well KS and IT work differently seeing as IT works by putting you in a dream.

This is only when the user is attached to the divine tree, but is also further proof of the superiority of IT.

Yet Aizen needed to.

So?

Except that Aizen had him under ks from the very beginning in muken...

False, that was when Yhwach was first exposed to it. The effect ended before the invasion of Soul Society where he could've easily seen Aizen releasing KS in the future or at the very least figured it was an illusion. Plus Aizen outright stated he confirmed that it can interfere with the Almighty.

and Yhwach still nullified it right before he began absorbing Aizen.

NO. Yhwach said the effect had ended. He never said he overcame it.

Yhwach’s power already gives him knowledge on abilities so he would already know about how IT works and either dimension hop...

That's fine, Madara doesn't need KS to win was just saying Yhwach can't resist it if hit.

or outright nullify it like he did to ichibe’s attack or aizen’s KS...

He didn't nullify Aizen's KS.

I really don’t want to get into this argument, but it was able to pierce bankai ichigo who was many more times powerful than dangai to the point where his reiatsu was visible.

Dangai Ichigo has lackluster durability feats compared to Madara...

Not to mention the fact that Yhwach’s attacks bypass defenses as shown against orihime’s Santen Kesshun.

No...he just changed the future to be able to do that...he literally says that's what he's being doing the entire time. How the hell is he going to bypass physically durability now?

Madara however, was cleaved in half by sasuke’s chidori spear in base.

So? A weaker Madara tanked the Rasenshuriken that cut down the Shinju tree. If anything that's a feat for Sasuke.

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#250 Posted by KingogKings777 (2169 posts) - - Show Bio

Why wouldn't Yhwach just destroy Madara's eyes when he sees that there the source of Madara's power?