mad jim jasper vs spectre

" @King Saturn said:

" @Morpheus_ said:"

I am not taking sides here, since I have not read much of MJJ to know him at a great extent. But host & unbound do have a difference. That is the entire point of the Spectre having a host in the first place, actually. Once Jesus came to Earth, it was decided that if God has been merciful enough to permit his Son live among humans...There was no point in a Spirit of Wrath co-existing with him. So, the Spectre was cast out to limbo. When Jesus was crucified, the Spectre sensed it, and immediately begun to slaughter people. Michael attempted to restrain him, and succeeded, forcing him to "wear" a mortal shell (the reason Spectre was cast out in the first place - he wouldn't comply to that). The host keeps the wrath of the entity in check, hindering him in becoming a threat to innocents, as well. The more in tune the host is with the entity, the more powerful the Spectre becomes. Also, an unbound Spectre has better feats against strong opponents (Nabu, Shazam, rest of DoV), rather than normal Spec, who has been defeated several times when on another realm, or the soul of a man (he supposedly weakens there). He has won many battles, as well, but he is generally more impressive while at an unbound state. "

I aint saying The Spectre at an Unbound State isnt More Powerful... just not by as much as it would seem... simply because the level of The Spectre's power even with a Host can excel to Nigh Omnipotent levels just as he is in an Unbound State... but not beyond that... even The Spectre in an Unbound State handling beings like Nabu and Shazam in the Day of Vengeance arc isnt really much compared to Mad Jim Jaspers who is at peak levels an Omniversal Threat who seemingly Warps Reality on levels Nabu or Shazam could never do on their best day...

"

That is the thing: I am not trying to make a case for the Spectre to win...Just prove that he is more powerful when unbound, rather than while operating with a host...And that would mean he was not on his A game in the two instances you mentioned before. The difference is not that drastic, as you said yourself, but still, it is evident. Technically, he was not at full power. Oh, and stalemating the Anti-Monitor should count for something...I'm not sure how MJJ would fare against him. "

well he may not have been at Peak Levels then as he is in a Unbound State... but those examples were of him battling Reality Warpers of Universal Scale... even if he isnt at full power totally... The Spectre does not have the greatest record against High Scale Reality Warpers... in whatever state he may have been in... 

Stalemating the Anti Monitor is indeed impressive... but I wouldnt count out the idea of Jaspers either duplicating or even doing better in a situation against the Anti Monitor... 

" @Morpheus_ said:

" @King Saturn said:

" @Morpheus_ said:"

I am not taking sides here, since I have not read much of MJJ to know him at a great extent. But host & unbound do have a difference. That is the entire point of the Spectre having a host in the first place, actually. Once Jesus came to Earth, it was decided that if God has been merciful enough to permit his Son live among humans...There was no point in a Spirit of Wrath co-existing with him. So, the Spectre was cast out to limbo. When Jesus was crucified, the Spectre sensed it, and immediately begun to slaughter people. Michael attempted to restrain him, and succeeded, forcing him to "wear" a mortal shell (the reason Spectre was cast out in the first place - he wouldn't comply to that). The host keeps the wrath of the entity in check, hindering him in becoming a threat to innocents, as well. The more in tune the host is with the entity, the more powerful the Spectre becomes. Also, an unbound Spectre has better feats against strong opponents (Nabu, Shazam, rest of DoV), rather than normal Spec, who has been defeated several times when on another realm, or the soul of a man (he supposedly weakens there). He has won many battles, as well, but he is generally more impressive while at an unbound state. "

I aint saying The Spectre at an Unbound State isnt More Powerful... just not by as much as it would seem... simply because the level of The Spectre's power even with a Host can excel to Nigh Omnipotent levels just as he is in an Unbound State... but not beyond that... even The Spectre in an Unbound State handling beings like Nabu and Shazam in the Day of Vengeance arc isnt really much compared to Mad Jim Jaspers who is at peak levels an Omniversal Threat who seemingly Warps Reality on levels Nabu or Shazam could never do on their best day...

"

That is the thing: I am not trying to make a case for the Spectre to win...Just prove that he is more powerful when unbound, rather than while operating with a host...And that would mean he was not on his A game in the two instances you mentioned before. The difference is not that drastic, as you said yourself, but still, it is evident. Technically, he was not at full power. Oh, and stalemating the Anti-Monitor should count for something...I'm not sure how MJJ would fare against him. "

well he may not have been at Peak Levels then as he is in a Unbound State... but those examples were of him battling Reality Warpers of Universal Scale... even if he isnt at full power totally... The Spectre does not have the greatest record against High Scale Reality Warpers... in whatever state he may have been in... 

Stalemating the Anti Monitor is indeed impressive... but I wouldnt count out the idea of Jaspers either duplicating or even doing better in a situation against the Anti Monitor... 

"

"I do not know if the Spectre would win here, but at an unbound state...I honestly cannot remember him ever losing, as suggested, at least not during the last 10 years, or so. And before that, he was hardly ever seen unbound.
"

" @King Saturn said:

"@Phoenix of the Black Throne said:

" @King Saturn said:

" Spectre even at full power has losses under his belt... do you recall his losses to Anti Monitor or Zero Hour Parallax ? And what do you mean at best he can only effect a Universe ? You dont even know the full effects of his powers... and the fact that he has been stated as a Omniversal Threat gives light to the fact that he is indeed a being who can effect Mulitple Universes with his Reality Warping Power whether you think the speaker of the scene is a liar or not... and like I said keep in mind that 5th Dimensional Imps have kept The Spectre in check as well as Zero Hour Parallax whose Reality Warping was effective on a Universal Scale... The Spectre doesnt do all that well with High Scale Reality Warpers even at full power... and he wont fair well here... "

What do I mean at best he can effect one universe?  feat-wise that is all he did and it was not the 616 version that did it, 616 only warped Britain.  MJJ at full power lost twice in two universes and a version that should have been more powerful than the others two because of the Fury merge lost to the Exiles. "

see there you go again... thats his on panel feat... it doesnt reflect his overall power though... just like when Emperor Joker was able to destroy a Universe during his Arc... The Spectre himself said that Emperor Joker was a threat to all that exist and he was at the time... even if he didnt show an On Panel feat of destroying or effecting the enfire DC Multiverse...  "

I agree on that front it's the source of the info beyond being written by writers I am addressing, I only question it because people are very matter of fact when talking about this guy as if he is Beyonder level or something, he's just some crazy reality warper and I place Wanda above him because she actually did show the level of power others boast about him having. 
@Lance Uppercut said:

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne: So once again you ignore facts. Seriously, your reputation is taking hit after hit on this one. Jaspers is an Omniversal threat. Deal with it. "

To ignore facts would mean I don't take the whole picture into account, he was called a threat to the omniverse by a person that is not trustworthy, this is also a part of the facts, he is called this by a person who claimes to be the Guardian of the Omniverse yet he only deals with other Earths across the this so called omniverse.  Marvel does not hammer into our heads his omniversal status the way they have hammered in that Merlyns words and actions are not to be trusted.  so deal with that.  And stop with this <  crap about my reputation taking hit after hit, you think Magneto is an omega level mutant and there is nothing that has ever been stated.  If my reputation is so shot then stop the debate.  If there is not a shred validity in my claims then this debate would have stopped.  I asked for proof that he warped the multiverse like you said he did, you provided none, because he didn't.  "

And once again, i've posted scans that support my theory that Magneto is in fact an Omega level mutant. Charles Xavier has stated it twice on panel, as has Dark Beast. Two incredibly reputable characters that have said he could be one of the most powerful mutants in the world. You can refute it all you want, but you can't argue with the scans. "

Jaspers wins. He's way to strong. Spectre is strong yeah, but when he's turned into a condom he's gonna be pretty useless.

" @Lance Uppercut said:

And once again, i've posted scans that support my theory that Magneto is in fact an Omega level mutant. Charles Xavier has stated it twice on panel, as has Dark Beast. Two incredibly reputable characters that have said he could be one of the most powerful mutants in the world. You can refute it all you want, but you can't argue with the scans. "

They to my knowledge did not ever state that Magneto is an "Omega Level Mutant".  They only implied that he could be, and that is not confirmation. "

" @Lance Uppercut: Actually..... in one of Marvel's Ultimate guides the Amalgamverse is considered to be apart of the Marvel Multiverse.  So.... they did I guess. :P "

" @Lance Uppercut: Actually..... in one of Marvel's Ultimate guides the Amalgamverse is considered to be apart of the Marvel Multiverse.  So.... they did I guess. :P "

" @negamegas said:

" @Lance Uppercut: Actually..... in one of Marvel's Ultimate guides the Amalgamverse is considered to be apart of the Marvel Multiverse.  So.... they did I guess. :P "

Holy hell, seriously?"

" @Morpheus_ said:

"I do not know if the Spectre would win here, but at an unbound state...I honestly cannot remember him ever losing, as suggested, at least not during the last 10 years, or so. And before that, he was hardly ever seen unbound.
"

He lost when The Prescence stopped him 
 
 

"

Spectre Stomps. Unbound Spectre is basically unlimited Spectre. He faced the Archangel Michael and Michael admitted that Spectre was a formidable opponent. Of course Michael then swatted him away, but taking on the most powerful being in DCU outside of The Presence is pretty big. MJJ would get blinked away.

Spectre.

MJJ potential is one thing, but likely it would take him some good measure of time to realise the said potential, his on panal feats dont go beyond being able to warp Britian, or being merged with the universe.

He has , from that point, been treated with even less respect in his next appearance in Die by the Sword.

He really doesnt have anything against Spectre, apart from him, potentially being powerful enough to hijack the entire omniverse, despite having never actually done anything close to it.

When Jaspers began his fight with the fury, Roma mentions that the game is disintegrating, and the whole multiverse depends upon that game. Which means that the Jaspers/Fury battle was destroying the multiverse:

That should be his best on panel feat.

Mad Jim Jaspers.

@rolldestroyer: Its pretty much back to what has been said, they dont say that the fight is actually destroying the multiverse but rather the fate of the multiverse depends upon the fight, because at least as far as Alan Moore is concerned Fury were the only one who could stop James Jasper and if he is not stopped the whole multiverse/ omniverse would fall into chaos.

Its still only a potential of what might have been as opposed to what he has been actually shown to outright do on panel.

But Roma also says that the game (upon which the multiverse depends on) is disintegrating (getting destroyed).

I never said that their fight actually destroyed the mutiverse though, but point was, their fight was affecting the whole multiverse to a point where it began to disintegrate.

This feat should count for something, in my opinion.

@rolldestroyer: the decreator is erasing the universe little by little too, that does not mean he can beat the spectre

1. I never gave an opinion regarding who wins this battle.

2. Decreator is erasing the universe after they tampered with his vibrational frequency or something like that, when he initially appeared he was blinking stars out of existence, and was stated to be a part of God himself, his opposite in fact, so by implication, id say the decreator is above the spectre. Bad example.

@rolldestroyer: the great evil beast is his opposite. and spectre is gods wrath. not bad at all

Well, i guess we should bring on panel evidence, then:

The shadow was God's own

in other words: Bad example on your part.

@rolldestroyer: he is not the opposite of the presence, he is the shadow of the light god made. bad example.

I am not sure i understand, the game was to try and fool Jasper into fighting his own creation and have him lose. The game was disintegrating because MJJ has the upper hand. It had nothing to do with actually affecting or destroying the multiverse.

Like Roma says in the same scan, it was Merlyn who told Roma that the fate of the multiverse would depend on them being somehow able to defeat MJJ, else he would start unleashing the jasper wave, there is nothing there that hints at their actually battle affecting the multiverse man.

Perhaps we have different opinion, but honestly thats what it seems to me.

MJJ is too much

@iragexcudder: agreed.

@baron_von_santa: MJJ honestly has very little on panel feats to suggest he could take on Spectre, despite being classified by Merlyn as a threat to the entire omniverse. Potential is one thing, execution is another. Not to mention current MJJ is merged with Fury, its like Superman being merged with his own Kryptonite.

jasper,7/10. spectre always loses against imp like reality warpers.

Jaspers.

@dc_marvel_1000: bound spectre probably puts up a good fight considering hes 100 times universal at the very least, unbound is just overkill

Spectre

Being a threat to the Omniverse needs context. I could say that a group of house-raiding robbers are a threat to a House and its residents, doesn't mean their punches are House level and can erase the house out of existence.

There's also the issue that erasing Multiverse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Destroying a Multiverse by dismantling and distorting it.

You need several layers of mental gymnastical highballing to justify your MJJ. If you could do that, the same could be done for Matteis Spectre when he merged with the Void beyond all Voids and basically became a Pre-Retcon Beyonder on Steroids in terms of implied power.

Max-Implied Power Spectre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Max-Implied Power MJJ.

MJJ gets wiped

Spectre.