Mace Windu vs Count Dooku (Force only)

Cba adding pictures, headers, bullet points.

Standard morals, standard equipment, yeno, no external circumstances.

This is Dooku in his Prime against Mace at the beginning of Revenge of the Sith, not Mace at the specific time he fought Palpatine.

Round 1: Telekinesis only (I'm pretty sure Shatterpoint isn't an aggressive Force ability, it's allowed if it's not going to be aggressive).

Round 2: All Force abilities allowed such as Windu's Shatterpoint and Dooku's Lightning.

Round 1: In a straight blastfest I'd favour Windu.

However Dooku has shown greater precision, so if he was in a enviroment with a lot to throw around and distract with he might pull out a win

Round 2: Depends. Dooku could get a lucky tag with lightning. But based on Windu partially nullifying Sidious attack he should be able to defend or should that not be an option use his speed to evade.

I'd favour Windu by a slim margin

Dooku, both rounds.

1. Mace.

2. Not sure.

Stalemate

Dooku

Either way

Dooku

Possibly this, yeah.

Yeah, round one could go either way, while round two would go to Dooku, probably.

Dooku wins both rounds.

Either way.

Either way.

@azronger: @wollfmyth209: @kiadisandwich: Round 1:Dooku

Round 2:Dooku

Mace has admitted his large inferiority to both Yoda and Anakin in the force. Dooku has stalemated Yoda in the force, casually beaten Ventress and bested End of TCW Anakin in the force. Yoda even admits Dooku is the best in Dark Rendezvouz. Mace's beast feats are pushing a Tank(Dooku has lifted 10 Orbalisks at once which is better) and ragdolling a Droid 'army' which i from CW which massively exxagerates SW characters abilities.

Dooku is better and its not particullarly close.

@hittheassasin: You're making bold claims.

@hittheassasin

Mace has admitted his large inferiority to both Yoda and Anakin in the force. Dooku has stalemated Yoda in the force, casually beaten Ventress and bested End of TCW Anakin in the force. Yoda even admits Dooku is the best in Dark Rendezvouz. Mace's beast feats are pushing a Tank(Dooku has lifted 10 Orbalisks at once which is better) and ragdolling a Droid 'army' which i from CW which massively exxagerates SW characters abilities.

Lol.

Mace.

Dooku.

@lordofthelight: What? If its in referance to Yoda vs Dooku, i know Yoda is better but its a fact that Dooku could compete. Please try to debunk my post if you can.

@yousufkhan1212: i guess but its all true(though slightly exagerated).

@hittheassasin

Whatever Dooku gets off Yoda, Mace gets and more. And not by his flawed opinion( which thought that Depa was a better duelist than him), but objective statements.

@lordofthelight: based on what does Mace get more? His feats are inferior, hiss accolades are inferior, he's inderictly admitted that Yoda would stomp him in the force on several occasions, like when he admitted he couldn't lift the tank with people in it, but Yoda could gave done so casually(shatterpoint). Mace wouldn't be lying in a situation like that. Dooku is better. Prove me wrong.

@hittheassasin

His feats are inferior, hiss accolades are inferior, he's inderictly admitted that Yoda would stomp him in the force on several occasions, like when he admitted he couldn't lift the tank with people in it, but Yoda could gave done so casually(shatterpoint). Mace wouldn't be lying in a situation like that. Dooku is better. Prove me wrong.

There is no need to debunk anything. There are a large amount of "objective" statements directly comparing Mace to Yoda stating that they have equal abilities, and some even have Mace above Yoda. Besides, the creator of the whole SWverse, George Lucas has said that Mace is one of only two people to be able to compete with Sidious, and it includes everything. Flat out. No conditions attached. This is excluding the even more number of quotes that always club Mace and Yoda together whenever power and abilities are concerned.

Yeah, and if you go by character opinions, Yoda can obliterate Dooku(Y:DR) on an extremely potent DS Nexus. The AoTC comic has Dooku "directly" admitting that he was no match for Yoda. Dooku thinks that Yoda, if he falls to the dark side, can destroy Sidious. So your little theory fails here. Not to mention, Mace also said that Depa was a better duelist than him. That's true as well, I suppose. Obi Wan goes around admitting inferiority to almost every other Jedi that he sees, but we know almost certainly that he is the 4th best in the Order.

@lordofthelight:

There are a large amount of "objective" statements directly comparing Mace to Yoda stating that they have equal abilities, and some even have Mace above Yoda.

Almost every quote has Yoda superior, like these ones:

This truth: that he, the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known...

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

That was why Mace was on the Jedi Council. That was why, except for Yoda, Obi-Wan thought him the most powerful Jedi he'd ever known.

—Jedi Quest: The False Peace

Palpatine enjoyed Yoda's company, because the longer he sat smiling benignly at Yoda, and the longer the greatest Jedi Master failed to recognize Palpatine for what he was, the more satisfying the situation became.

—Star Wars: The Clone Wars novel

Besides, the creator of the whole SWverse, George Lucas has said that Mace is one of only two people to be able to compete with Sidious, and it includes everything. Flat out. No conditions attached. This is excluding the even more number of quotes that always club Mace and Yoda together whenever power and abilities are concerned.

Lucas' opinion is irrelevant. He no longer owns Star Wars, has no part in the EU or anything else. His outdated statements mean nothing.

Yeah, and if you go by character opinions, Yoda can obliterate Dooku(Y:DR) on an extremely potent DS Nexus. The AoTC comic has Dooku "directly" admitting that he was no match for Yoda.

Obviously, Dooku is inferior but it's not by much(in the force) via objective statements:

The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched.

The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other.

Dooku thinks that Yoda, if he falls to the dark side, can destroy Sidious.

Which hasn't been proven wrong and is likely correct? Whats your point?

So your little theory fails here. Not to mention, Mace also said that Depa was a better duelist than him.

Differantly entirely. Mace literally says that if Yoda was there he(yoda) could have lifted the tank with ease and that he wasn't capable of it. Keep in mind this was a life and death situation. Why would Mace lie?

That's true as well, I suppose. Obi Wan goes around admitting inferiority to almost every other Jedi that he sees, but we know almost certainly that he is the 4th best in the Order.

Completely different situation and Obi-Wan is not Mace lol.

Dooku is still better.

Pretty much this. Sids taught him enough that he should be able to have a decent edge in the second round

@hittheassasin

Yeah, and I am talking about these:

Though Yoda's junior by hundreds of years, Mace Windu was considered his equal in terms of ability, insight, and command.

Credit: Power of the Jedi

And:

Mace Windu-The Council's greatest battlefield general and warrior

Credit: AEYNTKASW

And:

Though Yoda's junior by eight centuries, Mace Windu is seen as Yoda's equal in the Jedi Order, and he is a senior member of the Jedi Council.

Credit: Revised Core Rulebook

And:

A grim Jedi Master with an amethyst-bladed lightsaber, Mace Windu was the champion of the Jedi Order, with little tolerance for the failings of the Senate, the arguments of politicians, or the opinions of rebellious Jedi.

Credit: Mace Windu, databank

And according to Ahsoka, Mace Windu's presence in the force was overwhelming. More overwhelming than even Yoda.

Lucas' opinion is irrelevant. He no longer owns Star Wars, has no part in the EU or anything else. His outdated statements mean nothing.

Except it's not. The character of Mace Windu was created with the exact specifications in mind as described by Lucas himself. SW is his universe.

His opinion>Opinion of any sourcebook, especially the outdated ones that you take the Dooku quotes from.

Also, disregarding the opinion of Lucas as though it is nothing signals to me that you are just reaching for the high heavens. Not a smart move, believe me.

The two Force warriors attempted to defeat each other with displays of telekinesis and other Force abilities, but they were too evenly matched.

The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other.

Yeah, except this is false. Yoda never attempted a single offense on Dooku of his own, and all of Dooku's attacks including his lightning were repelled with absolute ease( one source contradicts the part about the lightning, but it is contradicted by virtually every other source, both in canon and Legends).

It was Dooku who self declared that their skills were evenly matched. Which is perfectly in tune with his character, since the guy has more pride than Anakin, but more because Yoda didn't attempt to actually attack him with the force.

Differantly entirely

Completely different situation

No, they are the same. You say that simply because they do not suit your opinion.

Mace literally says that if Yoda was there he(yoda) could have lifted the tank with ease and that he wasn't capable of it. Keep in mind this was a life and death situation. Why would Mace lie?

Sure. Then let's also state that Depa Billaba> Mace Windu as a duelist. Then, AoTC Anakin>>Mace in regards to power.

You know, since you seem so bent on wanking that one quote, let's try some inconvenient ones, shall we?

Realizing that he was no match for Yoda, Dooku fled towards his ship.

Credit: Attack of the Clones comic

And:

Yoda bounded after him. In the dark Vjun air it was all he could do not to leap after Dooku, to fall on him like a green thunderbolt and annihilate him utterly.

Credit: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

Let's not get carried away here.

Obi Wan may not be Mace, but the statements are made with the same consideration. Again, let's not ignore contradicting evidence and appeal to an outright false incredulity.

And Haruun Kal is an extremely potent DS Nexus. He could be more pessimistic, not to mention, hugely hindered.

Dooku is still better.

Debatable. In mastery and knowledge? Dooku is better, yes. Power? Mace.

Also that statement about OCW series having better feats is straight up nonsense. Dooku has vastly better feats in other media. Yoda has a vastly better feat "in canon". Obi Wan has vastly better feats across various media. Anakin has vastly better feats across other media. I can go on and on. Even Mace's feat of stabilizing the growing landslide that started off as hundreds of tons of rock and dirt, on Haruun Kal, an extremely potent DS Nexus is a lot better than anything he has shown in the show.

Seems like you are just ignoring whatever contradicts your opinion.

Dooku. He's more powerful with the darkside and more fluent in general.

mace and dooku are likely in the same general range with tk with mace being a bit better, but lightning, and dooku's willingness to abuse/clever use of tk can afford him the win. Then again its quite possible mace can deflect dooku's lightning which would probably swing things in mace's favor.

Then consider mace is more durable and can tank attacks better and mace takes the majority.

Dooku wins thanks to superior experience and superior mastery.

I'm going with Dooku for both rounds.

I'm under the impression that Count Dooku and Yoda were two evenly matched in the Force when they fought, and thus they resorted to a lightsaber duel.

Dooku.

:'(

Dooku wins both rounds.

Mace wins pretty solidly.

Windu.

1st round splits. Honestly nothing happens; their too evenly matched to harm each other with the Force. Impasse.

2nd round. Dooku or stalemate. Lightning is the only means of actually harming ether of these two. Mace can defend with Tutaminis but that's about it defend. If Dooku slips past his guard he wins, if he doesn't it's a stalemate and neither Mace or Dooku are breaching the other's Force barriers with pushes or grips.

Yeah - unfortunately, mace wins a majority, but not easy.

The second round's closer, with mace perhaps taking a slight majority

Dooku wins both rounds.

I still think Dooku kills Mace in all out, but in force only Mace by the tip of his bald head.

Round 1: Mace after a good fight.

Round 2: If he can use the unarmed variation of Vaapad, he might be able to redirect Dooku’s lightning or use Force deflection to block it. I’d say it’s an even split for this one.

1. Windu

2. Dooku

Mace murders him, and no, it's not particularly close.

If Yoda can only turn it aside with difficulty Mace isn't blocking it

Mace probably can block it; he did so in some sources against Sidious. It doesn't really matter though, because blocking is all he can do. Neither can harm each other with basic Force techniques, and Dooku is the only one that has a chances of doing damage. Dooku or impasse.

@in-sidiousvader:

If Yoda can only turn it aside with difficulty

Nope. Been retconned. Yoda deflected Dooku's lightning attacks with laughable ease.

Mace isn't blocking it

Yoda can block it with ease. Mace isn't that far off from Yoda either, so even if Yoda was mildly challenged by it, that doesn't mean Mace automatically couldn't block it.

Where has it been retconned

God help me, I hate any Dooku vs anyone debates when people start using failed accolades that Dooku matched Yoda in a force duel.

Yoda turns Dooku into a paste. Enough

This is legitimately the only thing that irks me. I've argued the "Yoda vs Dooku" nonsense far too often.

With that said, round 1:

Stalemate or Windu

Round 2:

Dooku 6/10

Neither of their TK will work but Dooku shows tremendous acuity with multitasking. If he can keep him locked up with lightning, he can also mix in some environmental TK to pressure Windu until he makes a mistake.

However, Windu CAN very much win an all out force battle thanks to his shatterpoint and ability to channel darkness through his familiarity with Vaapad. I don't see it shouldn't apply while he is saberless.

If Dooku takes too long to end the fight, then Windu's amp could allow him to crush Dooku with TK.

I agree a unwilling to kill Yoda was what couldn't turn aside his lightning

@in-sidiousvader:

Off the top of my head?

On Geonosis, Yoda's easy parrying and, indeed, handling of the Sith lightning Dooku hurled at him had come as a surprise.

Labyrinth of Evil

I think there are other sources though.

Yoda/Sidious are ahead of Dooku by a gargantuan margin. Like @keencraft said, an all out Yoda would turn Dooku into a paste.

Well that sucks. LUCENO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!