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#51 Edited by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_wspanialy: No worries m8, I have a few counter points I will be bringing up once I get a bit of time on my hands. Note I am not claiming Ulic is Dooku/Mace level (Although I suppose it is possible depending). Its just I have a large amount of arguments in favor of Ulic and many of them I am not sure if they have been used before. I need a metric for testing them out and this seems to be as good as any. I appreciate your willingness to help me out on this one.

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#52 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio
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#53 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Mace and Dooku, only because Ulic is a weak link.

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#54 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I think Ulic can contend with them. Especially when he's a good duelist in his own right (though personally I doubt he's up there even with Maul and Kenobi skillwise) and his baffling force defenses should mitigate the advantages that Dooku and Mace can glean from their offensive capabilities.

However, I think that Ulic loses to them just about every time in a 1v1.

And I do feel that Ulic's sword skills can be overstated sometimes, as he only matched Exar prior to the powerboost (where both became dispirate in power) and before Exar developed his famous form and saber from the ground up, wheras Ulic made no such improvements besides perhaps an arbitrary increase in skill over time.

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#55 Posted by TheMuser (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: Well......Looks like I have more stuff to discuss on my next post which was already going to be too long....So looks like we got a 1 v 3....Maybe even a four if Kbro jumps in....Alright, challenge accepted.

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#56 Edited by Richard96 (5746 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku solos . A near equal of yoda should be enough to overcome exar and ulic

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#57 Edited by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace wins this for team 1 by virtue of being able to compete with rots sids. Jedi Dooku is more skilled than either ulic or kun were as jedi and as he grew more skilled as a sith there's no reason to think kun or ulic surpassed him.

Team 1 every time.

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#58 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@themuser: I dunno if I'm included in that.

I'm just throwing my chips in, not rly taking sides. Again, my stance is that the TOTJ team wins this, but it's a good fight.

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#59 Posted by kbroskywalker (13408 posts) - - Show Bio

@kbroskywalker:

I thought you said you had to go and write a university paper?, the hell you still doing here bud!

You keep dragging me back!

Also not a paper. Just gotta write about the work I've done this past term.

---

Also, I understand the circumstances very well, I read that thread.

But by all means, Luke is obviously talking about Kun's power, not the threat he posed under those circumstances.

Unless I'm misremembering and Luke was regarding the threats he has faced rather than most powerful threats.

Found the quote:

the quote says kun and sids are two of the strongest focal points he's faced. Not that Kun and sids are the stronhest two focal points. And the quote's context makes me think its not literal with Luke looking back/reflecting at past threats and past challenges:

There in front of him, starkly visible against the blackness of space, he could see the faint images of Emperor Palpatine and Exar Kun, two of the greatest focal points of the dark side he’d ever had to face. They were standing there before him, gazing back at him. And laughing.

- Specter of the Past (Credit to ChaosTheory123)

So yea, IMO, competing with rots sids is sufficient. If mace can compete with sids(meaning sids can't just ragdoll him to oblivion), I see no reason why Kun would be capable of taking mace out with his force powers. And if it gets to a duel, Mace, as an eight bordering nine(the level for the anakins/yoda's/sids) should definitely take this

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#60 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Edited by Richard96 (5746 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76:

Yoda didn't destroy Dooku . Would kun destroy him ?

Kun is overrated

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#62 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@richard96: He kinda did...

And Dooku has been highly overrated recently.

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#63 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Both combatants are at least loosely comparable to RotS Sidious/Yoda in power and skill.

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#64 Posted by cptstormsword (314 posts) - - Show Bio

^ I think it'll come down to a duel pretty quickly and neither of team 2 can take them in that category.

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#65 Posted by ordeith (1595 posts) - - Show Bio

Kun and Ulic.

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#66 Edited by Richard96 (5746 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76:

Seriously ?

Dooku had been reckoned one of the foremost duellists in the Jedi Order, second only to Master Yoda.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File #60

Yoda and Dooku were almost equals, with the little Jedi Master having perhaps a slight edge over his former padawan.

Source: The Official Star Wars Fact File #34 (Relaunched)

With Form II, Dooku holds his own even against Master Yoda.

Source: Insider #62: Fightsaber

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#67 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@richard96 You're forgetting how few skilled Jedi/Sith there are around their levels if you're talking canon. There's them, Mace, and Anakin. That's it. Anakin wasn't his prime quite yet, and Mace and Dooku are roughly equals, so obviously that makes Dooku second to Yoda for canon sources. Exar Kun is non-canon. I'd imagine Sarasu Taalon, Revan, Caedus, Tenebrous, Kun, Krayt, Nihilus, and Venamis are all between Yoda and Dooku. And that's Sith only.

And the second and third quotes are somewhat contradicting how the battle actually went:

"COUNT DOOKU charges across the space at YODA. He rains down blows upon the tiny figure. YODA doesn't budge an inch. For the first part of the contest, he parries every cut and thrust that Dooku aims. Nothing the great swordsman tries gets through. His energy drains. His strokes become feebler, slower.

YODA attacks! He flies forward. COUNT DOOKU is forced to retreat. Words are insufficient to describe the range and skill of Yoda's speed and swordplay. His lightsaber his a humming blur of light.

Count Dooku's lightsaber is sent cartwheeling from his hand. He staggers back, gasping and spent, against the control panel. YODA jumps onto DOOKU'S shoulders, and is about to drive the lightsaber into the top of the Count's head."

Source: Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones Script

"Count Dooku charged forward. Yoda sighed. Nothing has he learned. Nothing has he remembered. He closed his eyes, bowed his head, and felt the Force that bound all things, even himself and the Count. His lightsaber moved effortlessly, flowing with the Force to find the balance point between them and block Dooku’s every stroke. He did not even have to step back.

The Count’s attack grew more desperate, to no avail. Breathing hard, he backed away, but Yoda did not pursue him. To stop Dooku was all that was necessary, and he could not pass Yoda to reach his Solar Sailer.

The Count slowed once more, then stopped, his blade braced against Yoda’s. Yoda could feel him drawing on the dark side in an attempt to press Yoda’s weapon back, but the dark side was only an easier path, not a stronger one. Backed by the full power of the true Force, Yoda’s lightsaber was unmovable."

Source: Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones Junior Novelization

"Dooku went into a wild flurry then, the likes of which he had not shown against Obi-Wan or Anakin, raining blows at the diminutive Master. But Yoda didn't even seem to move. He didn't step back or to the side, yet his subtle dodges and precision parries kept Dooku's blade slashing and stabbing harmlessly wide.

It went on and on for many moments, but eventually Dooku's flurry began to slow, and the Count, recognizing the Futility of this attempt to overwhelm, stepped back fast.

Not fast enough.

With a sudden burst of sheer power, Master Yoda flew forward, his blade working so mightily that its residual glow outshone even those of both of Anakin's lightsabers when he was at the peak of his dance. Dooku held strong, though, his red blade parrying brilliantly, each block backed by the power of the Force, or else Yoda's strikes would have driven right through.

Just as he was about to launch a counter, though, Yoda was gone, leaping high and turning a somersault to land right behind Dooku, in perfect balance, striking hard.

Dooku reversed his grip and stabbed out behind him, intercepting the blow. He let go of his weapon altogether, tossing it just a bit, and spun about, catching it before it had even disengaged from Yoda's blade.

With a growl of rage, Dooku reached more deeply into the Force, letting it flow through him as if his physical form was a mere conduit for its power. His tempo increased suddenly and dramatically, three steps forward, two back, perfectly balanced all the while. His fighting style was one based on balance, on the back-and-forth charges, thrusts and sudden retreats, and now he came at Yoda with a series of cunning stabs, angled left and right.

Never could he strike low, though, for never did Yoda seem to be on the ground, leaping and spinning, flying all about, parrying each blow and offering cunning counters that had Dooku skipping backward desperately.

Dooku stabbed up high, turning the angle of his lightsaber in anticipation that Yoda would dodge left. But Yoda, as if in complete anticipation of the movement, veered neither left nor right, but rather, dropped to the ground. The Count had already retracted the missed thrust, and began a second stab, this time down low, but Yoda had anticipated that, too, and went right back up behind the stabbing blade.

A sudden stab by Yoda had Dooku quick-stepping back even more off-balance, for the first time, and then Yoda flew away, up and back.

The furious Dooku pursued, thrusting hard for Yoda's head. And in his rage when his stab missed yet again, he reverted to a slashing attack.

Yoda's green blade caught the blow, holding the red lightsaber at bay, locking the two in a contest of strength, physical and of the Force."

Source: Star Wars: Episode II: Attack of the Clones Novelization

This alone shows how Dooku barely escaped with his life. I'd imagine Kun would put up more of a fight, especially with his force blasts and such.

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#68 Edited by RedHeathen (2242 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76 said:

@richard96: He kinda did...

And Dooku has been highly overrated recently.

^^^

actually, ditto everything necromancer says.

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#69 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio
@necromancer76 said:

And Dooku has been highly overrated recently.

Because you feel he shouldn't be that high? lol

Either Dooku or Mace can at least stalemate Exar, and overcome Qel-Droma. Both of them are canonically superior a good 13 years before their prime.

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#70 Posted by deactivated-5be183e26f3e9 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1. Either of them beat Ulic. Kun gets dog piled.

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#71 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: So you're saying a weakened version of Dooku can beat GM Luke...?

How do you feel about Dooku against:

Darth Vader, Darth Venamis, Darth Nihilus, Darth Krayt, Exar Kun, Darth Caedus, Revan, Darth Tenebrous, and Sarasu Taalon? Those are the Sith I have above Dooku for now (Besides obvious ones like Valkorion, Plagueis, and Sidious).

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#72 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76: So you're saying a weakened version of Dooku can beat GM Luke...?

No, of course not. But neither could Exar Kun; something you'd know if you actually read the source material in question as oppose to a wikipage or AncientPowers' fanwanking blogs. And before you cite the example in Jedi Academy, read this:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/wollfmyth209/blog/luke-skywalker-vs-exar-kun-context-and-circumstanc/130541/

Also realize that Luke was barely a Jedi Master at the time; he wasn't even close to being in his GM incarnation.

How do you feel about Dooku against:

Darth Vader,

Loses in a great fight.

Darth Venamis,

Loses.

Darth Nihilus,

Loses.

Darth Krayt,

Loses.

Exar Kun,

Wins.

Darth Caedus,

Loses.

Revan,

Could win, honestly.

Darth Tenebrous,

Loses by a considerable margin.

and Sarasu Taalon?

Which version? He'd probably lose to all versions of Taalon, but whether it'd be in an easy or tough fight is up to the incarnation.

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#73 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: So it's Kun and Revan you have at the bottom. Noted. And yes, while the Luke battle was circumstantial, he was still able to kill him with pure dark side energy. I don't think Dooku has any way to defend against this attack.

And I REALLY don't want to even try Revan vs Dooku, but if for some reason you want me to, I could bring up the Dooku vs Revan thread and show you how it ended. And you have Dooku losing to Krayt, and I proved to you Revan would beat Krayt in a not-so-close fight.

Your rankings here are messed up. You legit have Vader and Venamis over Kun and Revan. I don't know what has gotten into you lately.

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#74 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76: So it's Kun and Revan you have at the bottom. Noted.

Good for you.

And yes, while the Luke battle was circumstantial, he was still able to kill him with pure dark side energy. I don't think Dooku has any way to defend against this attack.

I don't see why not. Dooku himself was capable of creating cages/energy fields of pure Dark Side energy that not even a lightsaber could penetrate. And he didn't kill him, or even harm him; he put Luke in a state of constant astral projection.

And I REALLY don't want to even try Revan vs Dooku, but if for some reason you want me to, I could bring up the Dooku vs Revan thread and show you how it ended.

Using a more-than-year old thread where a user "beat me" in a debate because I wasn't even tagged, and thus unaware until like a month later, is an incredibly low move on your part. I'll gladly debate CaV you in Dooku vs Revan.

And you have Dooku losing to Krayt, and I proved to you Revan would beat Krayt in a not-so-close fight.

I honestly don't even remember you making a post. A lot of my notifications go un-checked. :Shrugs: I can tackle it if you'd be kind enough to link me to the thread, or we can set up a CaV.

Your rankings here are messed up.

By who's definition? Yours? I couldn't care less.

You legit have Vader and Venamis over Kun and Revan.

I do, yeah.

I don't know what has gotten into you lately.

I decided to change my opinion? Shocker, really.

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#75 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: Ok....

Luke dropped his useless lightsaber and crouched. His every muscle suddenly coiled and tensed. He rallied all the powers of the Force around him, seeking any defensive tactic. With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from the gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusionary vipers that struck at him from all sides. Luke cried out and tried to strike back, but the shadows of Exar Kun joined the attack, adding more deadly force. The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke’s body.

He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all. Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him—but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly. Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

The black serpentlike tentacles of evil force struck at him again and again, filling his body with a pain like lava coursing through his veins. As he screamed, his voice was swallowed by a hurricane from the dark side. Luke cried out one last time and crumpled backward to the blessedly cool flagstones of the Great Massassi Temple, as everything turned a smothering, final black around him…

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

Cilghal drew up short as she noticed the robed figure sprawled on the flagstones under the sky. His hands were thrown back as if to defend against something. “Master Skywalker!” she called. The other trainees rushed forward. Cilghal pushed through the gathered students and knelt beside the fallen man. Luke’s face seemed curdled in an outcry of pain or fear. His eyes were squeezed shut, his lips were curled back in a grimace.

On the stone floor beside him lay his lightsaber, as if it had proved useless against whatever enemy he had fought. Cilghal propped Luke’s head up, touching his pale-brown hair. Rivulets of cold sweat glistened on his face, but she felt no warmth on his skin. She probed, using her newfound abilities in the Force, desperately searching.

“What happened to him?” Dorsk 81 said in great alarm.

“Is he alive?” Streen asked. “I can’t hear him.”

Cilghal probed wither her sensing abilities and shook her orange and muddy-green head. “He’s breathing. I can sense very little heartbeat, just the faintest pulse. But I can’t find him inside. When I touch him with the Force, all I find is a great empty spot…” She turned to look at the others with her sad round Calamarian eyes. “It’s as if he has left us.”

“What can we do?” Kirana Ti asked.

Cilghal cradled Luke’s motionless head in her lap and blinked her huge Calamarian eyes, unable to speak for a long moment.

“We are all alone now,” she finally said.

--Taken from Dark Apprentice

As you can see, Luke was incapable of fighting at this point. Which means in a 1v1, he would lose. And remember how easily and quickly Luke was defeated by a weakened Kun? Regardless of circumstances, I don't think Dooku could replicate a feat like this.

I...don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about this thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-vs-count-dooku-719832/?page=2

I'm a junior in high school. If I had time for a CaV, I would try to do some. But I can link you to the thread where we left off: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-vs-darth-krayt-1736870/

And the last 3 responses I can't really respond to, but it leaves me wondering what new feat (or which user) changed your mind on Dooku so drastically...I'll have to look into it. I don't see how Dooku is anywhere remotely close to Revan in the force, and Revan, being able to beat Exar Kun in a duel, is not far from Dooku in terms of sabers.

I'd also like to know why you have Vader above Revan. Revan can literally instakill him with force storm. I feel like your "new" rankings are just out of spite.

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#76 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6207 posts) - - Show Bio

And I REALLY don't want to even try Revan vs Dooku, but if for some reason you want me to, I could bring up the Dooku vs Revan thread and show you how it ended. And you have Dooku losing to Krayt, and I proved to you Revan would beat Krayt in a not-so-close fight.

Even DarthAnt has Krayt and Revan on par. So, yeah I'm gonna need a link for that

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#77 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365: I am not Darth Ant. You can check the battle Wolf and I started and provide extra information: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-vs-darth-krayt-1736870/

Besides, Nova and I somewhat came to the agreement that Tenebrous and SoR Revan are equal in canon feats. I'd assume most of you have Tenebrous above both Krayt and Dooku?

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#78 Edited by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76: As you can see, Luke was incapable of fighting at this point. Which means in a 1v1, he would lose. And remember how easily and quickly Luke was defeated by a weakened Kun? Regardless of circumstances, I don't think Dooku could replicate a feat like this.

And this is all because of drastic circumstances that were in favour of Exar. Dooku, under the same circumstances, could do the same thing.

I...don't know what you're talking about. I'm talking about this thread: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-vs-count-dooku-719832/?page=2

That's a bandwagon fallacy then. I don't care about an argument ad populum.

I'm a junior in high school. If I had time for a CaV, I would try to do some.

So am I. I'm in a High School specialized in medical work, no less. I can still organise my time. But yeah, I understand tough times.

But I can link you to the thread where we left off: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/revan-vs-darth-krayt-1736870/

I'll respond when I get around to it. If I don't, tag me.

And the last 3 responses I can't really respond to, but it leaves me wondering what new feat (or which user) changed your mind on Dooku so drastically...I'll have to look into it. I don't see how Dooku is anywhere remotely close to Revan in the force, and Revan, being able to beat Exar Kun in a duel, is not far from Dooku in terms of sabers.

Not a new feat, just a few users and I talked and came to a few conclusions.

I'd also like to know why you have Vader above Revan. Revan can literally instakill him with force storm.

No, he couldn't, lol.

I feel like your "new" rankings are just out of spite.

I have nobody to spite, I have no reason to spite, I'm the person who would spite someone, I gain nothing from spiting anyone. So... yeah.

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#79 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: I don't remember them being "drastic." Could you elaborate on that please.

But the info provided makes sense. There's no reason for me to debate a Revan vs Dooku thread unless someone counters every point in that post. I can still use it to show why I think Revan would beat Dooku.

I see, I see. But yes, you feel the pain of having little time to do things you enjoy.

Could you direct me to these threads so I can see where you are coming from?

Why not? He's instakilled people before. Vader is already weak to lightning, and seeing as how he can barely handle Dooku level lightning, it's safe to assume Revan would almost instantly defeat him.

Interesting.

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#80 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16530 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76: I don't remember them being "drastic." Could you elaborate on that please.

I've made the blog for a reason, you know.

But the info provided makes sense. There's no reason for me to debate a Revan vs Dooku thread unless someone counters every point in that post. I can still use it to show why I think Revan would beat Dooku.

It takes the fun out of any form of debate. You can mimic/agree with someone's arguments, but just posting a thread where one person made an argument and the rest chanted "YEAH! REVAAAAAN!" doesn't help your case.

Could you direct me to these threads so I can see where you are coming from?

Mostly/PMs and private chats, tbh. I also don't remember specific threads. :/

Why not? He's instakilled people before.

No Caption Provided

Vader is already weak to lightning,

No Caption Provided

and seeing as how he can barely handle Dooku level lightning,

No Caption Provided

it's safe to assume Revan would almost instantly defeat him.

No Caption Provided

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#81 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: Oh yeah forgot. I'm at school right now though.

What's fun for me is debating close battles. I don't have Dooku and Revan on the same tier, so it wouldn't be fun to debate it. And besides, there are easier ways to take the fun out of Star Wars battles (cough cough Plaguies quote cough).

Dang. How about the users who spoke to you? I can monitor what they say in future threads.

I don't see the point of these gifs... the first 3 points are factual, the last is a logical conclusion.

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#82 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6207 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: That gif combo. Your ult meter has to be at least at 50%

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#83 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@wollfmyth209: @necromancer76:

Didn't Vader tank Sidious' full power lightning for 8 seconds straight without defending himself before collapsing?

At the time just carrying Sidious over to the pit, not being debilitated by it in any way immediatly?

That's better than most people would hold up against his lightning honestly. Mace with an amp and Vapaad reflecting it back could barely hold it at bay, his lightsaber turning back into his own face and when shocked all he could do is stand there in pain (though I imagine the 'shock' of Anakin's betrayal and loss of his hand might have a 'hand' in it S:^D ).

I don't think Vader is 'weak' to lightning, at least not in the say you're insinuating and lol at Revan instakilling him.

Sure he has a vulnerability to it by way of the design of his suit, but that's in comparison to his other defenses/power.

Just because lightning might be an effective avenue against him (if one can land it), doesn't mean it's an insta win. Vader could probably tank lightning better than most other characters in the verse.

Just he can't tank it as well as he can tank other kinds of attacks.

---

Edit: Honestly, you can ignore the Mace thing. I just said it for the puns :)

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#84 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6207 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: Honestly him enduring what Starkiller (who is honestly comparable to Revan) put him through is enough to imply that Revan couldn't one-shot him even if he landed a hit with lightning.

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#85 Posted by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

Yeah, but my point was that there's a notion that Vader is 'weak' to lightning in comparison to other characters., which isn't true.

He might be vulnerable to it compared to other methods but that's not saying much considering he can probably tank it better than most people in the galaxy's history would.

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#86 Posted by PenguinLover (994 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 in a good fight.

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#87 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: That was far from Sidious's full power. And Vader still died anyway. So that isn't the best way to back this up.

I may have stretched insta-kill, but Vader wouldn't survive regardless. Revan's power level is insane, seeing as how he could absorb another force storm attack, increase its power, and then send it back--straight through a force barrier--to disintegrate someone...all after being drugged and tortured for 3 years straight--massively pre-prime. Another version of Revan, after absorbing an attack capable of wiping all life on a planet, still had the raw power to instakill 8 people. That's impressive. Vader may be able to survive the first "burst," but if he gets caught in the lightning for just a little too long, he's done.

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#88 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76:

That was far from Sidious's full power. And Vader still died anyway. So that isn't the best way to back this up.

Sidious was holding back? For what purpose? He was about to be killed.

---

The clarify about Revan vs Vader, I'm actually in support of Revan here.

I'm just piping in to dismiss the notion that Vader in particular is 'weak' to lightning.

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#89 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365: Starkiller is more comparable to Dooku and Vader I'd say. His lightsaber skills aren't really impressive.

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#90 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: He was using "weak" lightning to torture Luke, not to kill him. Sidious was still "using" that lightning as Vader held him up and dropped him.

He's vulnerable, which is what's important here. Revan can easily take advantage of this and win a 1v1.

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#91 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76:

He was using "weak" lightning to torture Luke, not to kill him. Sidious was still "using" that lightning as Vader held him up and dropped him.

What?

As if Sidious can't increase the power of his lightning? Does he have to stop and start again to use it at a different power level?

It makes no sense that he would torture someone with lightning, then suddenly he's about to get killed and decides to keep the lightning weak. That's just silly.

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#92 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: He can, he probably just didn't have enough time. He was dropped in less than 5 seconds, and he was probably still confused on why Vader betrayed him. He did end up killing Vader, so that proves he was steadily increasing the power of his lightning, he just ran out of time.

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#93 Edited by Emperor339 (2488 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76:

Now he has an arbitrary level of time he needs to ramp up his lightning?

Where are you getting this from?

Sidious has gone 0-100 before. I don't see why he has to suddenly needs to increase the power slowly.

IMO it seems like your projecting an interpretation onto the scene that simply benefits your goal of naming Revan victor.

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#94 Edited by corruptgalactic (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76

No way Revan could take advantage of that, not even mentioning his splintered mind due to torture. Sidious wouldn't be instantly defeated nor would Vader. They aren't "weak" to lightning, there is just no support for that argument.

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#95 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@corruptgalactic: Silly, innocent CG. Splintered Revan was able to "take advantage" of the strike team consisting of the galaxy's best warriors--twice. He also did this after absorbing an attack powerful enough to destroy all life on a planet. His splintered mind seemed to do just fine. I'd imagine Vader would struggle fighting the strike team Revan fought, and Vader certainly can't survive a blast from the Machine Core like Revan did.

Also, you misread: I'm not arguing Revan vs Sidious, just Revan vs Vader. And Vader's suit does indeed make him weaker to lightning, which is the reason why he can't use force lightning.

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#96 Edited by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperor339: Where has Sidious increased his power from 0-100? Not DE mind you.

And obviously I'm trying to prove Revan victor, I don't know why that's wrong...? And what is the "correct" interpretation of the scene if mine is so "wrong?"

And whether I concede to this or not, it won't help your argument. Revan is infinitely more durable than Vader.

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#97 Posted by corruptgalactic (4 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76 He accumulated respect from a vast range but despite his skills, he can't overcome the powerful strike teams challenging him nor the conflicts rising and tearing him apart within his very own heart and soul. that alone will lead to his downfall in a battle with Vader.

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#98 Edited by deactivated-5be183e26f3e9 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

@necromancer76 said:

He was using "weak" lightning to torture Luke, not to kill him. Sidious was still "using" that lightning as Vader held him up and dropped him.

Shedding the bleack and soulless identity of Darth Vader, Anakin took the full force of his Dark Master's evil lightning upon himself-and hurled the Emperor to his death.

-- Dark Empire 1 Endnotes

Vader was at his weakest, yet he wasn't insta-killed by the lightning, and he was mortally wounded by Sidious' Dark Side burst.

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#99 Posted by Necromancer76 (3776 posts) - - Show Bio

@corruptgalactic: He didn't overcome the strike teams because of:

1. PIS

2. Light Revan

3. The Machine Core

4. He fought them twice in a row--with little recovery time--after being tortured for 300 years and then dying and using half of his will power to return to life.

I highly doubt Vader could beat the strike team at full health.

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#100 Posted by Emperordmb (1987 posts) - - Show Bio

Team TOTJ, Ulic can hold Dooku and Kun can beat Windu.

And Dooku isn't remotely comparable to Yoda just for the record.