Luminara Unduli & Barriss Offee VS Kit Fisto & Nahdar Vebb

Luminara & Kit as of RoTS.

Nahdar as of the episode he dies in.

Darkside Barriss.

Battle takes place in the Jedi Temple.

Canon feats only.

Round 1 - Sabers

Round 2 - Force

Round 3 - All-Out

Kit beats Luminara, Barris beats Nahdar. Kit then defeats Barris.

Luminara and Barriss all rounds. Luminara is a peer of Kit and a fight between the two would be close with Kit edging it in all rounds. Barriss is way above Nahdar and stomps him. Together Barriss and Luminara destroy Kit.

What?? Luminara isn't a peer of Fisto they aren't even close and what did Barriss do to suggest that she can stomp somebody who hold his own against GG? to the point where GG barely won with a surprise attack

T2 all rounds

Regarding on-screen continuity, I would say team 2 in a difficult fight.

Kit Fisto and Luminara Unduli are fellow Masters, but the former is of the elite High Council. Likewise, Master Fisto comfortably overmatched General Grievous in physical combat, something not even Obi-Wan Kenobi is capable of doing until their final confrontation -- not to say that Master Kenobi significantly outpaces Master Unduli, for he does not.

Barriss Offee, as I recall, did not complete her Jedi training before becoming a terrorist. Even if she did, Nahdar Vebb was brought to Knighthood by a greater Master. Couple that with his ability to outduel General Grievous -- Offee's Jedi training was cut off before she could reach that level -- and the tenacious Jedi Knight will prevail over her.

@darthor: yeah I would definitely say they’re close. Kits probably more powerful due to his showing against Grevious but he still lost against Ventress so I can see a fight between him and Luminara being a great one. Nahadars fight with Grevious was about 20 secs. GG only used 2 lightsabers and then shot him. Grevious did not struggle at all and kinda treated Vebb as a joke. Barriss was able to fight Ahsoka and Anakin, displayed pretty impressive acrobatics, force powers and environmental manipulation. Although it’s never stated I think it’s clear Barriss had completed her training by the time of her darkside turn. Plus she definitely received a power boost as a dark sider.

Luminara's team, but close.

Kit is MVP, but I feel Nahdar would go down first, and Fisto might get overwhelmed at that point. It would be very close.

@lord_tenebrous: When did Nhadar outduel Grievous? Because it didn't happen in the clone wars, lol.

Yes it did in the droid factor arc where GG got his upgrade. Both Nhadar and Fisto fought GG in that episode

Well, to be specific, I said that Nahdar Vebb has the ability to outduel General Grievous. And in the context of Star Wars: The Clone Wars, he does. The duel itself is fairly neutral -- Jedi Vebb holds his ground, handling every attack, but General Grievous seems to be worrying him.

It was always my assumption that the General would have ultimately overwhelmed Vebb, but he pulls that cheapshot because he can.

However, such was not the intent behind the scene. We're all aware of Dave Filoni's infamous declaration that Asajj Ventress beats out General Grievous because the latter's lightsaber skills are inferior compared to that of a Jedi or Sith:

Filoni: I still don't believe that, at this point -- one-to-one -- that Grievous could really take out someone like Ventress in a lightsaber fight. I mean, it's just me, but he doesn't have the Force. He can't wield it. I don't see how he can hope to be as proficient as a Jedi or a Sith could be fighting with a lightsaber, which is why he's always willing to dirty play at the end of the day.

IGN: Yeah, once things aren't going so well for him, he quickly cheats or calls in help.

Filoni: Yeah, it's in the movie. Mace Windu says, "General Grievous will run and hide, as he always does." He's an interesting character for all that thought. And obviously, you know, he's adept at using lightsabers, but I always thought his thing was fear. If you are afraid of the many swirling blades, then you'll perish staring at them. But if you can just focus through it, you can defeat that opponent -- like any video game!

https://www.ign.com/articles/2012/03/21/star-wars-the-clone-wars-looking-back-at-season-4

Evidently, this perspective -- General Grievous lacking the lightsaber prowess of any up-to-par Jedi or Sith -- has been present throughout the series, and backed by the wider TCW team, not just that one episode, and not just Filoni's opinion. Dating all the way back to season 1, regarding the duel between Nahdar Vebb and Grievous. It was to show how Grievous fights dirty, and can thereby score victories against Jedi, despite their greater skill:

Well I was, y'know I was thinking like that also, uh, in that sense with George, it was something he really wanted -- he was really interested in getting Jar Jar and Grievous in the room together, which, y'know, I was like "Wow, George -- that's gonna be really interesting. Not sure how that's gonna go". And, he and I talked about that quite a lot.

Um, y'know, I think fans, y'know, of course you don't know how things go down all the time and, and that was a big thing where, I went back to him, and said "Y'know, is there a way that we could do this with a character other than Grievous, because I really don't want to, kind of neutralize him in this way -- I think it's gonna make him look weak, to lose again, and, y'know, can we find a substitute?" And at one point, George said "Okay, we can take Grievous out", and we tried to write the script with someone other than Grievous, and it was with, a, the opposition leader.

The problem then became that in, in either version of the story, Anakin needed to get captured, and there really is not anybody that they could capture, that you're gonna be willing to trade, uh, for Anakin. Uh, you needed kind of an equal value situation. So, uh, I mean it presented a lot of challenges and problems having, y'know, these major characters involved, and also feasible how we're gonna make the Gungans convincingly capture Grievous.

And you are right -- I mean, the Jedi have been trying to do this, but we've never had, y'know, ten, twenty, thirty Jedi around him, he would be toast. I mean, it's not that big a challenge when Obi-Wan Kenobi in the movie "Revenge of the Sith" finally, y'know, gets Grievous on one-on-one terms -- it's a good fight, but, um, it's not the sensibility that people got, y'know, unfortunately or not, in the previous micro-series where they're all hiding in a ship, worried about Grievous is gonna come and stomp on them.

If you think of a really well-trained Jedi Knight, that's just not really a possibility -- they're trained against fear; they're trained to control their fear, and, and, he ultimately is just a droid, uh, with y'know, cybernetic--what's left of his, whatever alien he was. Uh, it's, it's not evident in Revenge of the Sith that the Jedi are ever really afraid of him. In fact, Mace Windu is the one who says -- well, Palpatine says, "What about General Grievous?" -- he says, y'know, "Grievous will run and hide, as he always does". Um, I think that line is one of the most telling about Grievous.

It doesn't mean that he's not a threat, y'know, as we show with Nahdar Vebb -- he'll fight you with his lightsabers, and then he'll, he'll gut you with his gun when you're not looking. He's not gonna play fair, he's gonna, he's gonna do what he needs to do to win, and that's what makes Grievous kind of a challenge for the Jedi, because they're more used to an elegant style of fighting, and, and fighting on a very fair level.

So, y'know, we rationalize it the same way Hondo was able to capture, uh, Dooku -- that Grievous could be captured by the Gungans if there were a ton of Gungans around. We have to then separate our picture of a Gungan, say, "Well Jar Jar is goofy, he fumbles into things, but, y'know, Gungan warriors aren't goofy, they're not slap-sticky silly warriors". They're, they're quite big, they're, I think on average they're over six feet tall -- they would, y'know, one-to-one, probably pummel a human soldier because they're just giant muscular amphibians. So, they're not, they're not pushovers.

~ Dave Filoni, The Clone Wars Supervising Director

The interesting thing with Palpatine is Grievous never factors into that equation. He's not an acolyte, he's not someone that Palpatine would even consider would take on the role of apprentice. He's purely, uh, a killing machine. I find Grievous actually really interesting -- I know people are always a little bit down, they're like, "Oh Dave, Grievous is losing again" -- but, if you listen to the film "Revenge of the Sith", when Mace Windu is pressed, um, he presses Palpatine saying, "The war should be over now that Dooku is dead". Palpatine says "Nah, there's General Grievous -- the war won't be over till you're done with Grievous". And Mace said very pointedly, "Grievous will run and hide as he always does". So, it's not a new thing to the Jedi that Grievous is a coward, that he runs and hides -- this is in the film, and that's where you run into that area where in a lot of the material he's the guy that is out there, y'know, and the Jedi being afraid of him -- which I, I find that very hard to believe, when Obi-Wan is surrounded by what looks like 200 droids in the movie, and, and, Grievous is in front of him and he just kind of smiles at him. Obi-Wan just knows that "This is ridiculous, I'm gonna defeat you cause I'm a skilled fighter, and you're some kind of metallic, impersonation of a Jedi -- but you're not a real Jedi".

~ Dave Filoni, The Clone Wars Supervising Director

So General Grievous doesn't cheapshot Nahdar Vebb because he can -- he does so because he must. Otherwise, Vebb will best him, lightsaber-against-lightsaber.

In Star Wars: The Clone Wars -- and presumably, by extension, Star Wars Rebels, The Mandalorian, etc -- non-Force sensitives cannot wield a lightsaber as well as a Force sensitive, no matter how hard they train. They can become quite adept in their own right, managing to challenge the Jedi or Sith -- Pre Vizsla and General Grievous versus Obi-Wan Kenobi, Asajj Ventress, Darth Maul, for example -- but at the end of the day, they aren't as capable as a Jedi Knight or Sith Lord.

@darthor:

I mean I’m canon neither of them have many feats.

Grevious only uses two lightsabers against Vebb and then a bLaster. Their fight lasts about 20 seconds. Grevious definitely did not struggle.

Ahsoka thought Barriss was Ventress at the time she definetly was not holding back. While the loss of her second saver obviously impacted her it’s still a great feat for Barriss who honestly dominated throughout.

Also I’m not arguing that Luminara can beat Fisto but I believe her defensive fighting style lasts far longer against him than Vebb does against Barriss.

I think that Luminara and Barriss have a shot, given how close and excellent of a team they are, they are able of working in quasi-perfect synchronisation and harmony while Kit and Naddar's teamwork shouldn't be bad but not enough to match Luminara and Barriss'.

Do people really rate Nahdar so high? It was very apparent that he was never going to win the fight with Grievous. Not in a million years. Grievous wasn’t even fully recovered at the time, and he fought Fisto (a superior opponent) shortly after beating Nahdar with minimal effort. As for his performance against the Magnaguards… those things are infamously inconsistent in TCW. Ashoka fights like 3 of them at once while taking care of Rotta in her very first appearance. Nahdar beating 2 or so near the start of the war is decent.

I know they both fought him... I said he never outdueled him, not that he never fought him. So yeah, what I said still stands.