Luffy vs Itachi

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#101 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

This is completely wrong lol, it puts the target in a visual illusion as evident when Luffy was still being attacked by other members of the Charlotte family, it was only his sight that was messed up and yet he wasn't able to do anything about it.

No Mont D'or closes the book just before Luffy gets attacked thus transporting him out. He even refers to it as a whole different place, the "World of Books" and we see later that his books indeed have pocket dimensions inside.

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That isn't what I meant and you know it, Luffy has no feats of fighting whilst receiving false input (Illusions) from every other one of his senses, this would require him to literally ignore/block all of his senses which he's never shown to be capable of.

Well any other sense besides sight is hardly relevant in a fight anyway, so if CoO allows him to make out Itachi's aura without relying on his sight that's enough.

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#102 Posted by BlackWizzard17 (1218 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

this would require him to literally ignore/block all of his senses which he's never shown to be capable of.

Cough cough

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#103 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@limitlesssigil:

This is completely wrong lol, it puts the target in a visual illusion as evident when Luffy was still being attacked by other members of the Charlotte family, it was only his sight that was messed up and yet he wasn't able to do anything about it.

No Mont D'or closes the book just before Luffy gets attacked thus transporting him out. He even refers to it as a whole different place, the "World of Books" and we see later that his books indeed have pocket dimensions inside.

That is the illusion... He makes it look like they're inside a book, there is 0 evidence to suggest he teleport's people into a pocket dimension.

That isn't what I meant and you know it, Luffy has no feats of fighting whilst receiving false input (Illusions) from every other one of his senses, this would require him to literally ignore/block all of his senses which he's never shown to be capable of.

Well any other sense besides sight is hardly relevant in a fight anyway, so if CoO allows him to make out Itachi's aura without relying on his sight that's enough.

You're not understanding at all... To make this simple, show feats of CoO resisting TP/Illusion based attacks.

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#105 Edited by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:
@streak619 said:
@shirso said:

That's a valid point. However Luffy should be FTE to Itachi anyway so can blitz

How is he able to blitz a guy who could lightning time while nearly dead, blind and in excruciating pain and possesses precog?

and CoO should allow him to see past the Genjutsu's illusion since its spiritual sensing so he can still fight.

Except spiritual sensing does not automatically allow him to see past genjutsu since genjutsu can fool spiritual sensing, Itachi can also simply KO him, or torture him, or control him.

Because he blitzed Katakuri who is tiers above lightning timing and has better precog than the Sharingan.

What feats does Katakuri have?

And no it doesn't spiritual sensing like in OP doesn't exist in Naruto, OP CoO allows the user to sense someone's emotions,

Which exists in Naruto and can be fooled by genjutsu

aura,

of...? Spiritual/life energy? Been there, done that.

power level, etc,

Which is defined by? If it is anything exclusive to the OPverse then it is irrelevant, if not Naruto probably has it.

we have had this discussion before.

Not precisely this, no.

edit: Liffy blitzed Katakuri in G4 right? He starts in base here, and still no counters to TP.

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#106 Posted by Helloman (30115 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi wins.

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#107 Posted by LimitlessSigil (4616 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackwizzard17 said:

@limitlesssigil:

this would require him to literally ignore/block all of his senses which he's never shown to be capable of.

Cough cough

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That technique turns Luffy into a vegetable and he's unable to attack

Cough cough

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#108 Posted by Son_of_Mori-jin (551 posts) - - Show Bio

@helloman said:

Itachi wins.

How do you figure that? I don't really see it happening unless he manages to seal him.

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#109 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

What feats does Katakuri have?

I guess you haven't been on Discord lately. We found that the explosion outrunning feat gives base Luffy micro second reactions. Katakuri was blitzing a much faster version of Luffy

Which is defined by? If it is anything exclusive to the OPverse then it is irrelevant, if not Naruto probably has it.

We discussed this before, Naruto life force doesn't include emotions while OP spiritual sensing does. Show me people sensing both emotions and auras and strength of the opponent in Naruto with one ability.

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#110 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

That is the illusion... He makes it look like they're inside a book,

Illusions mean something that's actually not there, in his case we know for a fact there are actual, tangible things existing inside his books and his ability has repeatedly been referred to as a pocket dimension, having an entire "world" inside books.

there is 0 evidence to suggest he teleport's people into a pocket dimension.

Um he does exactly that to all those rare species and Luffy and Nami. We see Luffy and Nami speaking to Mama from inside an actual prison cell within the book, and its also stated that people inside his books do not age. You think you can "illusion" someone to make them actually not age?

ou're not understanding at all... To make this simple, show feats of CoO resisting TP/Illusion based attacks.

Genjutsu is an illusion which manipulates the 5 senses, Luffy has proven he can fight while blinded relying entirely on CoO, ergo he can see past the illusion and blitz Itachi even if he is in an illusion. CoO won't allow him to "resist" per se, just "see" past it, what's hard about that?

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#111 Posted by Sy8000 (35921 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

Genjutsu is an illusion which manipulates the 5 senses, Luffy has proven he can fight while blinded relying entirely on CoO, ergo he can see past the illusion and blitz Itachi even if he is in an illusion. CoO won't allow him to "resist" per se, just "see" past it, what's hard about that?

You realize Itachi can put people in comas or just make them feel endless torture within a second right? Seeing through the illusion is the least of Luffy's problems.

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#112 Edited by Sy8000 (35921 posts) - - Show Bio

Using calcs to skyrocket Luffy's speed is dumb. Calcs are BS at a certain point when it's clear the writer doesn't have those numbers in mind.

Luffy isn't blitzing people with triple digit mach reactions or even coming close.

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#113 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000: I can't calc Luffy's speed from an actual on panel feat he had? I can play the same author intent card with every feat in every series ever

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#114 Posted by Sy8000 (35921 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@sy8000: I can't calc Luffy's speed from an actual on panel feat he had? I can play the same author intent card with every feat in every series ever

You can calc feats all you want. The validity is what's in question.

Indeed you can play the author intent cause. It's case by case really. If there are other, clear cut feats in the series to support that level then, the author probably either did have that number in mind or wouldn't mind it. Calcs should never be the basis for skyrocketing a series to a level which they have no logical precedence for being at. To put it this way, if a feat is so good that every other feat in the series gets completely ignored in discussions, I'd raise my eyebrows at it.

For that matter you're calcing off a vague feat where you can't even objectively prove the time Luffy started moving. That's flimsy evidence to wank off of.

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#115 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000:

Indeed you can play the author intent cause. It's case by case really. If there are other, clear cut feats in the series to support that level then, the author probably either did have that number in mind or wouldn't mind it. Calcs should never be the basis for skyrocketing a series to a level which they have no logical precedence for being at. To put it this way, if a feat is so good that every other feat in the series gets completely ignored in discussions, I'd raise my eyebrows at it.

The feat comes directly after a time skip, its obviously going to be much above anything that came before. And Brook who is absolute fodder to people like Luffy can react to lightning from a few meters, I don't see what's so inconsistent about the high tiers being quad machs at this stage.

For that matter you're calcing off a vague feat where you can't even objectively prove the time Luffy started moving. That's flimsy evidence to wank off of.

We know he was completely untouched by the explosion, we know the explosives were sticking to his clothes, meaning he couldn't have moved before it detonated (you can't "outrun" something that's literally sticking to you), ergo he moved before the explosion covered the length of his cloth, what's vague about that?

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#116 Posted by Consciouskeeper (2596 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinite suckitYoMe? Perfect sueSandOh? Yeah galaxy level itouchme prep lord wins.

Neg dif

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#117 Posted by ourmanuel (12636 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

Genjutsu is an illusion which manipulates the 5 senses, Luffy has proven he can fight while blinded relying entirely on CoO, ergo he can see past the illusion and blitz Itachi even if he is in an illusion.

Sharingan Genjutsu does way more than illusions lol, especially when we’re referring to itachi.

He could put Luffy to sleep or outright kill him if he wished with his genjutsu.

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#118 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: I know but the CoO vs Genjutsu discussion was more of a tangent, I think Luffy just blitzes him.

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#119 Posted by ourmanuel (12636 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@ourmanuel: I know but the CoO vs Genjutsu discussion was more of a tangent, I think Luffy just blitzes him.

If he’s above lightning speed then yeah.

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#120 Posted by Sy8000 (35921 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso:

The feat comes directly after a time skip, its obviously going to be much above anything that came before. And Brook who is absolute fodder to people like Luffy can react to lightning from a few meters, I don't see what's so inconsistent about the high tiers being quad machs at this stage.

There are plenty of feats from after the timeskip who was above everything before. Dodging Pacifista lasers, Red Hawk and meteors, basically everything Doflamingo did. None of them suggest microsecond level speed.

Stop trying to scale Brook to Luffy when we have an actual statement from Oda that Brook is fastest.

We know he was completely untouched by the explosion, we know the explosives were sticking to his clothes, meaning he couldn't have moved before it detonated (you can't "outrun" something that's literally sticking to you), ergo he moved before the explosion covered the length of his cloth, what's vague about that?

We don't know if he slipped out before or after they started detonating. We don't even know if he was completely untouched considering an explosion like that wouldn't have done shit without hitting dead on.

Luffy was also mid air.

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#121 Posted by falsearcher (344 posts) - - Show Bio

In character Itachi is probably going to genjutsu gg right off the bat. Luffy would win if you don't factor that in, but it's likely going to end with him being put to sleep.

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#122 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@sy8000:

Well at this rate basically any speed feat that doesn't conform to your idea of how fast the verse is (which from what I can see is barely high hypersonic) would be dismissed I suppose.

I can mention Aokiji's flash freeze and Boundman blitzing Doffy from a city block away as examples of near quad mach or high end MHS speeds, but you'd dismiss them as "outlier" or "calc stacking".

I can bring up the numerous lightning timing feats from pre skip, but they'd be dismissed again as "inconsistent"

I can show Rayleigh intercepting Kizaru's light form or the very existence of Kizaru himself as evidence as to where the verse's top tiers should lie, but let me guess they'd be dismissed as "Omg lol at anyone in the verse being relativistic"

I am pretty sure if Kaido gets an actual quantifiable quad machs feat next chapter, you would again dismiss it as "outlier" and when I bring up the Punk Hazard feat as evidence that characters tiers below him are that fast you'd dismiss them as "you can't justify one outlier with another"

That's just about every major speed feat dismissed.

So what's left I wonder? The meteorite feat? That's low triple digits at best and I am sure you would still lowball it by saying how fodder Marines saw it coming and say it's an "outlier" in any case since all that's left is Red Hawk (maybe high hypersonic), Sanji's Diable Jambe (maybehypersonic) and some bullet timing feats from early pre skip I suppose.

I guess the only explicit quantifiable feat that's left is probably Luffy failing to react to 220 km/h Gazelleman which would make him sub sonic in which case I wonder what you are even doing in this thread since you probably believe Itachi is a lightning timer or something. So why even debate, just call the mods and lock this mismatch, subsonic Luffy with "outlier" quad mach feats is a statue to lightning timer Itachi.

Btw,

Stop trying to scale Brook to Luffy when we have an actual statement from Oda that Brook is fastest.

Oda specifically said Brook is the fastest in a 50 metre race. You must also think Thor is MFTL in combat and reactions I suppose.

And if you truly believe Brook has faster combat speed than Luffy, then your reading comprehension is shit (though that's established from how you interpreted that SBS anyway) as is your opinion regarding the series in general.

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#123 Posted by maxxcveiler (1030 posts) - - Show Bio

itachi destroys any OP character 1 vs 1

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#124 Edited by SkySanji (5588 posts) - - Show Bio

The Itachi wank never ceases to amaze he's a terrific character but the fanboys ruin that for me.

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#125 Posted by SkySanji (5588 posts) - - Show Bio

Luffy blitzes and oneshots.

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#126 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

Ot: Luffy still blitzes and one shots by being tiers above lightning timing. The next time any biased Naruto fanboy calls perfectly good feats "outliers" I am going to ask them what other feats besides Karin does Itachi have that puts him at lightning timing and why a "lightning" bolt shaped like a dragon should be considered natural in the first place.

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#127 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619:

I guess you haven't been on Discord lately.

I left way before you did man.

We found that the explosion outrunning feat gives base Luffy micro second reactions. Katakuri was blitzing a much faster version of Luffy.

I got the feat to be mach300 or something. So unless you're gonna stack blitzing on top of blitzing in a Gear-esque manner, you can't reliably reach several tiers above lightning timing.

Besides, this kind of scaling can be used for Itachi as well. Stacking massively on top of Pain's mach500 feat.

We discussed this before, Naruto life force doesn't include emotions

Genjutsu has fooled empathy sensing so irrelevant.

while OP spiritual sensing does. Show me people sensing both emotions and auras and strength of the opponent in Naruto with one ability.

I don't need to, since genjutsu has fooled both forms of sensing. It being one ability is completely irrelevant. One ability can have hundreds kinds of sensing stacked together but if genjutsu has fooled all hundred seperately then that ability is not seeing past genjutsu.

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#128 Edited by SkySanji (5588 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

Ot: Luffy still blitzes and one shots by being tiers above lightning timing. The next time any biased Naruto fanboy calls perfectly good feats "outliers" I am going to ask them what other feats besides Karin does Itachi have that puts him at lightning timing and why a "lightning" bolt shaped like a dragon should be considered natural in the first place.

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#129 Edited by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: The micro second thing comes from looking at Luffy's reactions not his movement speed. He reacted and moved away before an explosion that was on his clothes moved the distance from his clothes to his skin. That's reacting in micro seconds.

Are you still not on the server?

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#130 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@skysanji said:
@shirso said:

Ot: Luffy still blitzes and one shots by being tiers above lightning timing. The next time any biased Naruto fanboy calls perfectly good feats "outliers" I am going to ask them what other feats besides Kirin does Itachi have that puts him at lightning timing and why a "lightning" bolt shaped like a dragon should be considered natural in the first place.

No one said a dragon shaped lightning bolt was natural, just that the lightning of the dragon was natural. There's a difference.

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#131 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619: The micro second thing comes from looking at Luffy's reactions not his movement speed. He reacted and moved away before an explosion that was on his clothes moved the distance from his clothes to his skin. That's reacting in micro seconds.

Yeah so he reacted and began moving before the explosion could move a centimeter. I have some compunctions about when exactly he moved, since I realised his clothes were perfectly fine after seeing the scans for the first time in a long time. Seems contradictory when you realise that the explosion was on the clothes that were later perfectly fine.

Are you still not on the server?

Nope

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#132 Edited by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: He moved away and outpaced the explosion the moment the explosives sticking to his clothes detonated. You can move through fire completely unharmed if you are fast enough. And I checked even the thickness of the thickest fabrics is like only 0.03 cm, so its irrefutably micro second timing no matter how much you lowball the explosion's speed.

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#133 Posted by Anomalous (688 posts) - - Show Bio
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#134 Edited by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619: He moved away and outpaced the explosion the moment the explosives sticking to his clothes detonated. You can move through fire completely unharmed if you are fast enough. And I checked even the thickness of the thickest fabrics is like only 0.03 cm, so its irrefutably micro second timing no matter how much you lowball the explosion's speed.

The distance between the goo and the clothes was zero. So when you use the thickness of the clothes as distance travelled, you're implying the clothes would be destroyed.

Also 0.0003m/mach3 is in the nanosecond tier. Are you saying Luffy is low end quint mach in base?

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#135 Edited by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Well the clothes weren't destroyed so he moved away before the explosion did anything to the clothes but by taking the thickness of the clothes as the distance I am assuming a low end.

Edit: Yeah if we took the actual explosion speed from Mr I's paper and the thickness of the cloth it would become low double nano seconds lol but micro second is more consistent considering other feats like Aokiji's flash freeze and Boundman blitzing Doffy from a city block

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#136 Posted by Saint_of_Origin (4790 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi, because blitz or not the moment he steps on the battlefield and there's an enemy, his first action is to put them in a Genjutsu, visual or not. I doubt that Luffy would blitz the moment the imaginary "FIGHT" words appear onscreen.

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#137 Posted by ourmanuel (12636 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, the solo memes

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#138 Posted by ourmanuel (12636 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

Ot: Luffy still blitzes and one shots by being tiers above lightning timing. The next time any biased Naruto fanboy calls perfectly good feats "outliers" I am going to ask them what other feats besides Karin does Itachi have that puts him at lightning timing and why a "lightning" bolt shaped like a dragon should be considered natural in the first place.

It’s literally stated to be natural lighting speed.

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#139 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: It was stated it takes natural lightning takes 1 mili second to reach ground from the clouds but I have several issues with the feat which I can tell you in a PM if you want since it would derail the thread.

In any case I don't particularly mind the feat being used to argue Itachi as a lightning timer, I just don't like the double standard.

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#140 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619: Well the clothes weren't destroyed so he moved away before the explosion did anything to the clothes but by taking the thickness of the clothes as the distance I am assuming a low end.

Yeah what I'm saying is, the fact that his clothes were completely normal despite the goo sticking to him contradicts him dodging after it exploded.

Edit: Yeah if we took the actual explosion speed from Mr I's paper and the thickness of the cloth it would become low double nano seconds lol but micro second is more consistent considering other feats like Aokiji's flash freeze and Boundman blitzing Doffy from a city block

I mean, microsecond would be more consistent but it is double digit nanosecond tier, by your own numbers, which even you would agree is massively inconsistent for base Luffy.

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#141 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@ourmanuel: It was stated it takes natural lightning takes 1 mili second to reach ground from the clouds but I have several issues with the feat which I can tell you in a PM if you want since it would derail the thread.

In any case I don't particularly mind the feat being used to argue Itachi as a lightning timer, I just don't like the double standard.

Uh no, it was explicitly stated that Kirin was natural lightning:

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#142 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

Yeah what I'm saying is, the fact that his clothes were completely normal despite the goo sticking to him contradicts him dodging after it exploded.

Well even if the goo was on his clothes there would be some cellular scale separation between it and the fabric I guess which would give him time to outpace it after it detonates. He can't "outpace" it before it detonates of course because it is sticking to his clothes, he would simply carry the goo with him.

As even you agreed before, this feat's insane, realistically, Luffy probably moved before the explosion could cover the separation between the goo and his clothes' fabric (which should be something, no matter how small), but I am taking the low end with taking the thickness of his cloth since that's more consistent and an objective minimum.

I mean, microsecond would be more consistent but it is double digit nanosecond tier, by your own numbers, which even you would agree is massively inconsistent for base Luffy.

Well the shockwave is Mach 3 but the flame speed of the explosion is like sub sonic so we can say the shockwave may have hit him slightly but didn't do any visible damage while the flame definitely didn't touch him since then we would see his clothes burnt. This would still give him micro second timing , so from all angles (consistency, numbers, taking heavy low ends and all) I think him being a micro second timer is the fairest and most consistent estimate

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#143 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619:

Well even if the goo was on his clothes there would be some cellular scale separation between it and the fabric I guess which would give him time to outpace it after it detonates.

Nanosecond timeframes yes. Cellular scale are in the micrometers. The time taken for a mach3 explosion to cover double digit micrometers is in the low end nanosecond tier aka relativistic. Which implies Luffy has relativistic reactions in base.

He can't "outpace" it before it detonates of course because it is sticking to his clothes, he would simply carry the goo with him.

Did we actually see it sticking to him?

As even you agreed before, this feat's insane, realistically, Luffy probably moved before the explosion could cover the separation between the goo and his clothes' fabric (which should be something, no matter how small), but I am taking the low end with taking the thickness of his cloth since that's more consistent and an objective minimum.

You can't a) choose and pick values that are more consistent, especially when b) those values are objectively false. It's not an objective minimum, it's an impossible minimum. That explosion did not travel 0.03 cm, at all.

Well the shockwave is Mach 3 but the flame speed of the explosion is like sub sonic

Citations, firstly. And why did you wait all this time to mention it?

so we can say the shockwave may have hit him slightly but didn't do any visible damage while the flame definitely didn't touch him since then we would see his clothes burnt.

The fact that the fireball is suposed to be subsonic doesn't change anything. The goo was touching him hence distance between the clothes and the goo = 0. Even if the explosion was subsonic, it would still destroy his clothes because 0 meters/subsonic velocity = 0 seconds. That fireball would destroy his clothes even if it was moving at 1m/s or any velocity that is > 0 since it would have to move practically zero distance to destroy it.

This would still give him micro second timing , so from all angles (consistency, numbers, taking heavy low ends and all) I think him being a micro second timer is the fairest and most consistent estimate

Not really no. There are only 3 options. Either we assume the distance was zero which would make the feat nonsensical or we say there was cellular level distances and put Luffy at relativistic.

There is no option where you get microsecond tier.

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#144 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

Yeah Caesar tells the goo to wrap around him and in the next panel we see it wrapped around his mid section completely with no gaps.

Not really no. There are only 3 options. Either we assume the distance was zero which would make the feat nonsensical or we say there was cellular level distances and put Luffy at relativistic.

There is no option where you get microsecond tier.

Hey if you want to argue he is relativistic be my guest lol, he does have multiple relativistic statements before this you know.

The citation for the flames being sub sonic is in Mr I's paper.

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#145 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619:

Yeah Caesar tells the goo to wrap around him and in the next panel we see it wrapped around his mid section completely with no gaps.

Not really no. There are only 3 options. Either we assume the distance was zero which would make the feat nonsensical or we say there was cellular level distances and put Luffy at relativistic.

There is no option where you get microsecond tier.

Hey if you want to argue he is relativistic be my guest lol, he does have multiple relativistic statements before this you know.

The citation for the flames being sub sonic is in Mr I's paper.

You kinda missed the point. You're assuming impossible values for the sake of consistency to avoid the contradictions in this feat and it being called an outlier.

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#146 Edited by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619: Fun fact: it wouldn't technically be an outlier because as I said he has multiple LS statements before this and there are no anti feats, neither does any of the other quad machs feats I named like Aokiji's flash freeze show the characters' limits at all,not to mention Luffy actually trained with a guy over the time skip who actually has an on panel relativistic feat casually. Btw his trainer Rayleigh also said Luffy learnt everything he had to teach him in just 1 and a half years.

Also so what do you suggest, completely disregard the first major speed feat he gets after the time skip simply because its much better than you think the verse should be at?

And there's no impossible values at all, I can say his cloth is 0.03 cm and he moved away before the sub sonic flame could burn through it. You know you don't instantly burn when you come in contact with fire.

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#147 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619: Fun fact: it wouldn't technically be an outlier because as I said he has multiple LS statements before this and there are no anti feats, neither does any of the other quad machs feats I named like Aokiji's flash freeze show the characters' limits at all,not to mention Luffy actually trained with a guy over the time skip who actually has an on panel relativistic feat casually.

So do you believe base luffy is relativistic? If you don't believe that, then it is, by definition, an outlier. If you do believe Luffy is relativistic, that's a discussion for another day.

Also so what do you suggest, completely disregard the first major speed feat he gets after the time skip simply because its much better than you think the verse should be at?

Exactly, it's what we call an outlier.

And there's no impossible values at all, I can say his cloth is 0.03 cm and he moved away before the sub sonic flame could burn through it. You know you don't instantly burn when you come in contact with fire.

No but clothes don't come out unscathed from zero distance point blank range small building level explosions, I can sure as hell tell you that.

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#148 Edited by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

So do you believe base luffy is relativistic?

I don't, you do apparently

Exactly, it's what we call an outlier.

If we pulled the "outlier" card on any series which gets a massive jump after a time skip Toriko and DBZ wouldn't exist

No but clothes don't come out unscathed from zero distance point blank range small building level explosions, I can sure as hell tell you that.

Actually we see his clothes and face very lightly singed in the anime and even in the manga so we can say it just started to burn his clothes but he escaped before it could move the entire distance so we take the average between micro seconds and double digit nano seconds if you prefer that or in my case the low end which is micro second. That should end this whole thing.

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#149 Posted by Streak619 (8190 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

@streak619:

I don't, you do apparently

Ignoring the fact that I called it an outlier? Yeah I can see how you reached that conclusion. Anyway, it's an outlier according to both of us then.

If we pulled the "outlier" card on any series which gets a massive jump after a time skip Toriko and DBZ wouldn't exist.

Good thing that's not what we're doing.

Actually we see his clothes and face very lightly singed in the anime and even in the manga so we can say it just started to burn his clothes but he escaped before it could move the entire distance

That was due to another explosion that happened prior. in the first page.

so we take the average between micro seconds and double digit nano seconds if you prefer that or in my case the low end which is micro second. That should end this whole thing.

Moving out of the way before the explosion could partially move through 0.03 cm would still be sub-relativistic.

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#150 Posted by shirso (4859 posts) - - Show Bio

@streak619:

That was due to another explosion that happened prior. in the first page.

Both explosions had some effect. You are the one saying the second didn't even touch him at all to prove its an outlier lol when what I said earlier is what's probably happened (it just started burning him then he escaped)

Moving out of the way before the explosion could partially move through 0.03 cm would still be sub-relativistic.

No a flame moving at sonic speed would take almost 900 ns or nearly 1 micro second to cross 0.03 cm, which is not far from what I originally took the feat for ( 1ms) and isn't sub relativistic. I am fine if you want to take it at some value between 500-900 ns since that isn't far from what I put the feat myself