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#101 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: That is not a mountain. Look at the trees on it. at best its a very large hill. Onoki is capable of dealing more damage, and Raikage Ay is capable of tanking more damage. It is a Kage-Level feat. High-Kage, maybe Average Hokage level, but its still well below Hashirama/EMS Madara levels.

For Reference, Heres a Hill with trees, and then this is a Mountain:

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And bloodlust doesn't mean he doesn't get hit by KS, it just means that the team gets nuked. KS can trick Naruto all it wants, its not stopping Surface-Wipe, and its sure as hell not stopping The Last Naruto's Moon-Bust cancel.

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#102 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:

@limitlesssigil: That is not a mountain. Look at the trees on it. at best its a very large hill. Onoki is capable of dealing more damage, and Raikage Ay is capable of tanking more damage. It is a Kage-Level feat. High-Kage, maybe Average Hokage level, but its still well below Hashirama/EMS Madara levels.

And bloodlust doesn't mean he doesn't get hit by KS, it just means that the team gets nuked. KS can trick Naruto all it wants, its not stopping Surface-Wipe.

That is undoubtedly a mountain, the tree's look tiny at the top due to the distance, also the angle makes it kind of hard to tell. Even so, doing this when you're dozens of times weaker than the version used in this thread puts him far above Kage level.

I don't think you understand how KS works... Aizen can literally just make Naruto continuously nuke himself with mind-rape illusions.

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#103 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: I edited my response pictures for reference. It is NOT perspective, you sound like a Flat-Earther. That is a Large Hill. Again, THIS IS A HILL:

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and THIS is a Mountain:

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Now if you want to Scale from that feat, do it and it is welcomed. He could be 100x Large-Hill level and still not lay a finger on SO6P Naruto, who is 1/2 Moon Level in the War Arc, and cancels out a Moon-Level attack in The Last when he has full Kurama.

PS: Surface Wipe on yourself is still a Surface-Wipe. Sooooo at best then Aizen makes this a stalemate.

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#104 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon: Why are we even talking about a bloodlusted hypothetical when OP says everyones in character.

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#105 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:

@limitlesssigil: I edited my response pictures for reference. It is NOT perspective, you sound like a Flat-Earther. That is a Large Hill. Again, THIS IS A HILL:

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and THIS is a Mountain:

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It hurts your case also if you really consider that an average mountain because these;

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Sure as hell aren't the same size as the irl picture you posted.

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#106 Posted by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: You're digging yourself a hole dude.

In this very picture, what you are seeing is KCM Naruto (Who is dozens of times weaker than SO6P Naruto) CASUALLY slap away 5 Mountain Busting Attacks. Not "Small Mountain Slicing" attacks, 5, repeat, 5 Average Mountain level attacks. You can say "Those aren't big mountains" because of Height, but what is more important is MASS. And if you look at that Frame on the left, you can see the Curvature of the Earth. Each of those blasts nukes the bottom half of this Team away.

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#107 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:

@limitlesssigil: You're digging yourself a hole dude.

In this very picture, what you are seeing is KCM Naruto

That's BM Naruto not KCM

(Who is dozens of times weaker than SO6P Naruto)

Debatable, he's definitely weaker than SO6P But dozens is a stretch.

CASUALLY slap away 5 Mountain Busting Attacks. Not "Small Mountain Slicing" attacks, 5, repeat, 5 Average Mountain level attacks. You can say "Those aren't big mountains" because of Height, but what is more important is MASS.

And you're able to know their mass how exactly? My point stands that if you don't want to call the "Mountain" from SDS a Mountain even though it was clearly portrayed as one, then we shouldn't be calling the "Mountains" in Naruto mountains either.

And if you look at that Frame on the left, you can see the Curvature of the Earth. Each of those blasts nukes the bottom half of this Team away.

Before or after he get's trolled by KS?

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#108 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Youre right about the KCM/BM distinction and the power difference being much smaller.

What you're not right about is that attack from SDS being on the same tier as the Bijuu Bombs. It is, again, AT BEST, a High-Kage/Avg Hokage level feat. Still well below Base Hashirama and EMS Madara.

And again, KS is not a game winner against Naruto. You could be talking about just about any character from any fiction and I would whole-heartedly agree that KS is overpowered as hell. But as is stated in the Manga and on the Wiki "Kanzen Saimincontrols the five senses to the point where it can... Insert almost anything here"

Except Sensory Ninja's are not utilizing their 5 Senses to sense Chakra. It is a suggested 6th Sense, and with Sage Mode comes the complete mastery over that 6th Sense. Example: Madara, after gaining Hashirama's Sage Mode, dodges Sasuke, who is leaping from the air, therefor making no noise. With no noise, and no sight, you would either have to suggest that Madara is capable of Smelling Sasuke, which Sage Mode was NEVER suggested to increase the sense of Smell to that level, or you would need to suggest that in fact Sage Mode's Sensory capabilities are its own unique Sense, meaning they are unaffected by KS. The Illusions of Kyoku Suigetsu are incredibly powerful. They are not Infallible. This is irrelevant though, because IC, Naruto gets slapped by Aizen+Ichigo, and like I said, the others are irrelevant as long as their some Mid-Teirs who are good at distracting.

This battle would be like pitting SM Naruto with No Help/Summons and No Intel against the entire Akatsuski minus Pein. The abilities are too unique, too varied, and Naruto a little too slow to figure it all out.

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#109 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:

@limitlesssigil: Youre right about the KCM/BM distinction and the power difference being much smaller.

What you're not right about is that attack from SDS being on the same tier as the Bijuu Bombs. It is, again, AT BEST, a High-Kage/Avg Hokage level feat. Still well below Base Hashirama and EMS Madara.

Why are you ignoring the point about Meliodas doing that in a form literally dozens of times weaker than the version used in this thread?

And again, KS is not a game winner against Naruto. You could be talking about just about any character from any fiction and I would whole-heartedly agree that KS is overpowered as hell. But as is stated in the Manga and on the Wiki "Kanzen Saimincontrols the five senses to the point where it can... Insert almost anything here"

Except Sensory Ninja's are not utilizing their 5 Senses to sense Chakra. It is a suggested 6th Sense, and with Sage Mode comes the complete mastery over that 6th Sense. Example: Madara, after gaining Hashirama's Sage Mode, dodges Sasuke, who is leaping from the air, therefor making no noise. With no noise, and no sight, you would either have to suggest that Madara is capable of Smelling Sasuke, which Sage Mode was NEVER suggested to increase the sense of Smell to that level, or you would need to suggest that in fact Sage Mode's Sensory capabilities are its own unique Sense, meaning they are unaffected by KS. The Illusions of Kyoku Suigetsu are incredibly powerful. They are not Infallible. This is irrelevant though, because IC, Naruto gets slapped by Aizen+Ichigo, and like I said, the others are irrelevant to both the battle and SO6P Naruto in general.

Few problems with this paragraph;

Proof Sasuke made no noise by launching towards Madara

Bleach also has it's own sixth sense, it's called Reikaku, google it. KS must also affect that else it would be entirely useless against 90% of the Bleach characters its used on, however it works fine on even the Head captain, whom is a master at Reikaku. By this logic, it isn't a stretch to say it affects all senses, not just those 5.

Finally, you'd have to prove Naruto is capable of fighting whilst only relying on that 1 sixth sense whilst somehow ignoring the other 5 that are lying to him.

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#110 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Of course Kyoku Suigetsu, a character from Bleach, can manipulate the senses within Bleach. It IS a stretch to say "It effects ALL senses" because that is a no limits fallacy.

I can prove Naruto, like ALL Sage Mode Users, can fight using only his sensory capabilities. My proof is Itachi and Sasuke vs SM Kabuto.

But again you are arguing with a shadow here because I already stated twice that IC Naruto gets SLAPPED by this team. If Naruto is Bloodlusted, or has full Intel though, the team gets Slapped.

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#111 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@redshift_bacon said:

@limitlesssigil: Of course Kyoku Suigetsu, a character from Bleach, can manipulate the senses within Bleach. It IS a stretch to say "It effects ALL senses" because that is a no limits fallacy.

I can prove Naruto, like ALL Sage Mode Users, can fight using only his sensory capabilities. My proof is Itachi and Sasuke vs SM Kabuto.

But again you are arguing with a shadow here because I already stated twice that IC Naruto gets SLAPPED by this team. If Naruto is Bloodlusted, or has full Intel though, the team gets Slapped.

I'm aware you agree Naruto loses, but we're having another discussion here.

It's not a stretch to say that a sense that is literally the equivalent to Reikaku can be controlled by KS. I mean, earlier you were saying it only affects the 5 senses, I've already proven that it affects more than that.

Kabuto was using every sense except sight? And how does Kabuto being able to do that automatically mean every other Sage Mode user can?

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#112 Edited by Redshift_Bacon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil:

It's not a stretch to say that a sense that is literally the equivalent to Reikaku can be controlled by KS. I mean, earlier you were saying it only affects the 5 senses, I've already proven that it affects more than that.

Kabuto was using every sense except sight? And how does Kabuto being able to do that automatically mean every other Sage Mode user can?

It is a Stretch, because Reikaku is not the same thing as Naruto Chakra. It does not flow the same way, it does not behave the same way, and it is not used the same way. Trying to wriggle your way out of this isn't going to work. Suigetsu is not going to know about Chakra, or expect it, and even if he does, it is a No Limits Fallacy to state that he would be able to manipulate it.

Kabuto shut off his Sight completely. He fought Itachi and Sasuke using the sensory abilities of Sage Mode, not using his taste/touch/smell. It is possible he was using Hearing, but that was obviously not the Sense he was relying on, because the entire fight he was morphing the structure of the Cave and his own Bones. They were not in a quiet open field, they were in the middle of a cave where every sound echos off of itself a dozen times.

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#113 Posted by UltraShaggy (499 posts) - - Show Bio

@uchihaghost: How you know that the quad juubi dama was country lv ?

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#114 Edited by uchihaghost (706 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrashaggy: calcs, even ignoring calcs you'd know from the sheer size iof juubi's second form juubi dama, explained this to you in my other post, the explosion reached high up in the stratosphere, and thats just the DC of the attack not potency. Its sort of a vague estimate I admit but I don't want to use calcs.

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#115 Posted by UltraShaggy (499 posts) - - Show Bio

@uchihaghost: As i remember the naruto fand never accept the bleach calcs, becaus its "fan calcs" , so , why woud i accept the naruto fan calcs?

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#116 Posted by uchihaghost (706 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrashaggy: as I said "ignoring calcs", I will post the manga pages later on in a bit, cuz I'm a bit busy now and on mobile. And juubito is beside the point, naruto on the otherhand who is the character in topic is what you should focus on.

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#117 Posted by Tetsukage (1945 posts) - - Show Bio

@yray: Island level still isn't enough.

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#118 Edited by Tetsukage (1945 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: KS isn't working on Naruto.

KS attacks the 5 senses Naruto has way more than that, he'll still sense danger, emotions, intent, and he'll still have superb battlefield awareness.

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#119 Posted by maestromage (1250 posts) - - Show Bio

Just remembered Naruto has negative emotion sensing (via kurama). Don’t know that KS would work on that. Nardo still loses tho.

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#120 Posted by StrongerThanRin (338 posts) - - Show Bio
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#121 Posted by Tetsukage (1945 posts) - - Show Bio
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#122 Posted by Eobard21 (4630 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto loses

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#123 Posted by StrongerThanRin (338 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage: have a link on where to find them or somethin?

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#124 Edited by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage said:

@limitlesssigil: KS isn't working on Naruto.

KS attacks the 5 senses Naruto has way more than that, he'll still sense danger, emotions, intent, and he'll still have superb battlefield awareness.

Show me Naruto fighting without relying on any of his 5 senses or concede

As I've already proven, KS works on Bleachverse's sixth sense so assuming it wouldn't affect the Naruto version is pure idiocy.

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#125 Posted by Tetsukage (1945 posts) - - Show Bio
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#126 Posted by LimitlessSigil (3932 posts) - - Show Bio

@tetsukage said:

@limitlesssigil: not the same thing.

A Sixth sense is a sixth sense, and again, show me Naruto fighting whilst ignoring all other 5 senses or concede.

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#127 Posted by ichigoSOLOLORD (125 posts) - - Show Bio

aizen and ichigo duo sotmp

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#128 Posted by Yamiyodare (1095 posts) - - Show Bio

Naruto wins without really trying

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#129 Posted by Tetsukage (1945 posts) - - Show Bio

@limitlesssigil: Wrong, there different kinds of senses with different levels to them.

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