Pirate team takes R1 since the only relevant fighter in the ninja team is Hashirama the others AP/DC is too low,
R2: the fight will likely take an entire week but Luffy and Kaido will die sooner or later due to Edo infinite regeneration and they dont have anything to seal or stop it.
One of his clone while sustaining massive barrier which can tank juubidamas can create gates to stomp Juubi and immobilize it.
Hashirama wouldn't have to go serious on them.
You're buggin.....
The barrier is not working on people with flight and it is only meant to contain,not defend.
Luffy turns the gates to rubber or dodges it. Kaido goes to normal human form and renders the dates ineffective or just dodges it. Plus an argument can be made that they can resist the gates. The databook says that it subdues will via nature energy. Luffy and Kaido have will in abundance.
Imma just consider that last statement as trolling cause wtf..
The barrier is not working on people with flight and it is only meant to contain,not defend.
Luffy turns the gates to rubber or dodges it. Kaido goes to normal human form and renders the dates ineffective or just dodges it. Plus an argument can be made that they can resist the gates. The databook says that it subdues will via nature energy. Luffy and Kaido have will in abundance.
Imma just consider that last statement as trolling cause wtf..
You're buggin.....
The barrier is not working on people with flight and it is only meant to contain,not defend.
I brought it up as an indication of his strength, not utility. He can sustain a barrier that can tank a charged Juubidama while also having multiple clones on the ground and restraining Juubi. And that's in his weaker Edo version.
Luffy turns the gates to rubber or dodges it.
That's possible, unless it crushes him into a pulp or seal his movements, considering it can hold Juubi in one place.
Kaido goes to normal human form and renders the dates ineffective or just dodges it. Plus an argument can be made that they can resist the gates. The databook says that it subdues will via nature energy. Luffy and Kaido have will in abundance.
While it's possible to dodge human form won't help him. Hashirama can create those of various sizes and spam. I don't buy your willpower argument without resistance feats.
Imma just consider that last statement as trolling cause wtf..
I know its a bit hard for OP fans to comprehend, but Hashirama has better feats than either Luffy or Kaido. He would take both without breaking a sweat, even in base form. He can catch BBs from 100% Kurama, throw them back and survive the explosion with no issues. 50% Kurama by feats is above anything in OP, 100% is on another level.
He also scales to Madara with his sage mode was physically more powerful than bijuus. His susanoo destroyed two mountain sized meteors before cutting two mountains in half with a shockwave.
Edo Hashirama and Madara were far weaker than their prime version.
@paxa: nope, deidara converts his entire body into energy for C0(databook also say he converts his soul into fuel too) but as an edo he states he can regen from that.
@paxa: nope, deidara converts his entire body into energy for C0(databook also say he converts his soul into fuel too) but as an edo he states he can regen from that.
That's possible, unless it crushes him into a pulp or seal his movements, considering it can hold Juubi in one place.
the gates would never even come close to crushing either Luffy (immune to blunt damage) or Kaido
He can catch BBs from 100% Kurama, throw them back and survive the explosion with no issues
Kinda like how Luffy can also bounce back attacks. Or kinda like how Luffy can survive Boro Breath no issues and Kaido can also take his own Boro Breath no issues
50% Kurama by feats is above anything in OP, 100% is on another level.
those 2 are not correlated lol. It's stated that Bijuus are way stronger when hosted by a Jinchuuriki, 100% Kurama without a host is way weaker than 50% Kurama with a host, as evident by feats. That shows how much having a host boosts the bijuu's power, so Hashirama's "100% Kurama" feats are not that impressive, since Luffy and Kaido already scale above feats from "50% Kurama with a host". Bad argument.
He also scales to Madara with his sage mode was physically more powerful than bijuus. His susanoo destroyed two mountain sized meteors before cutting two mountains in half with a shockwave.
Luffy has an Island sized punch infused with Armament and Conqueror's haki coating. He was leveling cities (without direct contact) that contain mountains way back in dressrosa, while breaking haki infused strings that can cut through meteors like butter. Those mountain shockwaves are not that impressive.
The Kages are individually YC1 tiers at best, Doffy can easily beat the likes of Hashirama. Either Luffy or Kaido crushes them in R1.
Also, please stop pretending Hashirama's wood can take concentrated attacks on Juubidama tier, they simply cannot. His Buddha was getting destroyed from TBB+EMS Madara's Susanoo infused blade combo, which is definitely well below the Juubi (any version). Not that Juubidama is out of Luffy or Kaido's ballpark anyway. They simply flex apart Deity Gates with raw strength.
@paxa: nope, deidara converts his entire body into energy for C0(databook also say he converts his soul into fuel too) but as an edo he states he can regen from that.
The Kages are individually YC1 tiers at best, Doffy can easily beat the likes of Hashirama. Either Luffy or Kaido crushes them in R1.
Also, please stop pretending Hashirama's wood can take concentrated attacks on Juubidama tier, they simply cannot. His Buddha was getting destroyed from TBB+EMS Madara's Susanoo infused blade combo, which is definitely well below the Juubi (any version). Not that Juubidama is out of Luffy or Kaido's ballpark anyway. They simply flex apart Deity Gates with raw strength.
Kages eventually win R2 due to Edo.
Nah,YC1 are > Kages(individually)
But Doffy is YC3.5 and below Cracker/Jack.And each of them are weaker as Hashirama
@paxa: I think Doffy can beat Hashirama due to a matchup advantage, don't even think the power argument is necessarily in Hashirama's favor either tbph.
Also you are underrating Doffy a bit, his Awakening could no sell standard Boundman Kong Guns, something even Cracker's biscuits or even Katakuri couldn't. He also has better feats for durability and endurance compared to Katakuri or Cracker.
Kaido and Luffy have no on panel feat that is on the same power as the detonation of at least 11 Bijuu dama enhanced by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Luffy's Elephant Gatling back in FMI destroyed half of an Island Sized ship with insanely durable wood, and was about to destroy the whole thing lol. He's grown (arguably) exponentially since then.
Kaido and Luffy have no on panel feat that is on the same power as the detonation of at least 11 Bijuu dama enhanced by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Luffy's Elephant Gatling back in FMI destroyed half of an Island Sized ship with insanely durable wood, and was about to destroy the whole thing lol. He's grown (arguably) exponentially since then.
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Lol. Island sized? Half destroyed? The outcome is different from your own statement.
This amount of damage is not enough to kill Hashirama and Minato
Kaido and Luffy have no on panel feat that is on the same power as the detonation of at least 11 Bijuu dama enhanced by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Luffy's Elephant Gatling back in FMI destroyed half of an Island Sized ship with insanely durable wood, and was about to destroy the whole thing lol. He's grown (arguably) exponentially since then.
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Lol. Island sized? Half destroyed? The outcome is different from your own statement.
This amount of damage is not enough to kill Hashirama and Minato
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imagine nitpicking art inconsistency. And the point still stands, that Luffy would've destroyed the Island sized ship if it wasn't for the Sea Kings stopping him.
Lol. Island sized?
You're right, i might be lowballing it. It's directly stated to be half the size of FMI (which is country sized) and it's bigger than Thriller Bark which is literally an Island Ship lmao.
This amount of damage is not enough to kill Hashirama and Minato
Nice job moving the goalpost. It is strong enough to kill them since that Gatling was comparable to the Buddha, if not superior. Also that's FMI Luffy using just G3, current Luffy is way stronger lmao.
Kaido and Luffy have no on panel feat that is on the same power as the detonation of at least 11 Bijuu dama enhanced by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Luffy's Elephant Gatling back in FMI destroyed half of an Island Sized ship with insanely durable wood, and was about to destroy the whole thing lol. He's grown (arguably) exponentially since then.
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Lol. Island sized? Half destroyed? The outcome is different from your own statement.
This amount of damage is not enough to kill Hashirama and Minato
Gallery
imagine nitpicking art inconsistency. And the point still stands, that Luffy would've destroyed the Island sized ship if it wasn't for the Sea Kings stopping him.
Lol. Island sized?
You're right, i might be lowballing it. It's directly stated to be half the size of FMI (which is country sized) and it's bigger than Thriller Bark which is literally an Island Ship lmao.
This amount of damage is not enough to kill Hashirama and Minato
Nice job moving the goalpost. It is strong enough to kill them since that Gatling was comparable to the Buddha, if not superior. Also that's FMI Luffy using just G3, current Luffy is way stronger lmao.
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Let's see:
imagine nitpicking art inconsistency.
There's no need, you already did by your assumptions.
And the point still stands, that Luffy would've destroyed the Island sized ship if it wasn't for the Sea Kings stopping him.
True, but how many punches will it take him before he destroy it? Even mountain level attacks could destroy an island with enough quantity.
You're right, i might be lowballing it. It's directly stated to be half the size of FMI (which is country sized) and it's bigger than Thriller Bark which is literally an Island Ship lmao.
Lmao. I'm not talking about the entire size of Noah, I'm talking about the Island size damage you assume that Luffy did.
Nice job moving the goalpost.
What?
It is strong enough to kill them
Not by on panel feats.
since that Gatling was comparable to the Buddha, if not superior. Also that's FMI Luffy using just G3, current Luffy is way stronger lmao.
Please spare us of your Headcanon. The single fist of Hashirama's Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands is powerful enough to overpower a single Bijuu dama empowered by Perfect Susanoo Blade. Luffy have no on panel feat to suggest that a single gatling punch of him is as powerful as the Bijuu Dama enhanced by Madara's Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Now the main reason I feel like ninja loose this R1- is because the ninja just don't have the physicals. It would be onething if they could withstand a couple hits but they all get literally splattered by either Thunder Bagua or Kong gun. Any attack that get thrown at the duos way has a very very very high possibility of being tanked since they are ZOANS which have high recovery rate (probably mid level regeneration never been stated explicitly though) not to mention Conquers Coating , Ryou , Future sight. Going into hybrid form for kaido and attacking with Death Destroyer , or Luffy Gear 5th would be too much . One hit from the ninja and the team survives...however one hit from the pirates and ninjas Splatter.
True, but how many punches will it take him before he destroy it? Even mountain level attacks could destroy an island with enough quantity.
"how many punches" is irrelevant considering it's 1 continuous attack lol. By your own logic, Hashi's Buddha is not impressive since it's a bunch of weaker hands attacking together.
Lmao. I'm not talking about the entire size of Noah, I'm talking about the Island size damage you assume that Luffy did.
you literally said "lol.island sized?" as a response to me saying Noah is island sized. Deflecting.
Nice job moving the goalpost.
What?
You went from "Kaido and Luffy have no feat on this level" to "this feat from Luffy can't beat Hashirama"
Please spare us of your Headcanon. The single fist of Hashirama's Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands is powerful enough to overpower a single Bijuu dama empowered by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Gallery
Nice job using anime outlier anime filler scenes that literally contradict what actually happened in the manga. We see dozens if not hundreds of the Buddha's arms getting torn to pieces, and in the second page after the clash ended, we see all of the Buddha's arms were severed and smashed lol. And all that the Buddha managed to do was take the brunt of the attacks from Madara and strip off a portion of the Susanoo.
Luffy have no on panel feat to suggest that a single gatling punch of him is as powerful as the Bijuu Dama enhanced by Madara's Perfect Susanoo Blade.
I'm not even gonna bother with countering this argument, since it's not what the OP is about in the first place, again you're moving the goalpost.
The facts are this:
Luffy's Elephant Gatling at the end of FMI arc is just as impressive if not more impressive than the Wooden Buddha
Luffy has grown a lot since then
the Buddha would literally not do any damage to Luffy or Kaido. Luffy is immune to blunt damage, and Kaido no-sold stronger blunt force attacks
Oh and of course, 4 Kages are literal statues compared to Luffy and Kaido, but i thought it's a pretty redundant thing to say
True, but how many punches will it take him before he destroy it? Even mountain level attacks could destroy an island with enough quantity.
"how many punches" is irrelevant considering it's 1 continuous attack lol. By your own logic, Hashi's Buddha is not impressive since it's a bunch of weaker hands attacking together.
Lmao. I'm not talking about the entire size of Noah, I'm talking about the Island size damage you assume that Luffy did.
you literally said "lol.island sized?" as a response to me saying Noah is island sized. Deflecting.
Nice job moving the goalpost.
What?
You went from "Kaido and Luffy have no feat on this level" to "this feat from Luffy can't beat Hashirama"
Please spare us of your Headcanon. The single fist of Hashirama's Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands is powerful enough to overpower a single Bijuu dama empowered by Perfect Susanoo Blade.
Gallery
Nice job using anime outlier anime filler scenes that literally contradict what actually happened in the manga. We see dozens if not hundreds of the Buddha's arms getting torn to pieces, and in the second page after the clash ended, we see all of the Buddha's arms were severed and smashed lol. And all that the Buddha managed to do was take the brunt of the attacks from Madara and strip off a portion of the Susanoo.
Luffy have no on panel feat to suggest that a single gatling punch of him is as powerful as the Bijuu Dama enhanced by Madara's Perfect Susanoo Blade.
I'm not even gonna bother with countering this argument, since it's not what the OP is about in the first place, again you're moving the goalpost.
The facts are this:
Luffy's Elephant Gatling at the end of FMI arc is just as impressive if not more impressive than the Wooden Buddha
Luffy has grown a lot since then
the Buddha would literally not do any damage to Luffy or Kaido. Luffy is immune to blunt damage, and Kaido no-sold stronger blunt force attacks
Oh and of course, 4 Kages are literal statues compared to Luffy and Kaido, but i thought it's a pretty redundant thing to say
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
Let's see:
"how many punches" is irrelevant considering it's 1 continuous attack lol. By your own logic, Hashi's Buddha is not impressive since it's a bunch of weaker hands attacking together.
Lol. Those not impressive bunch of weaker hands attacking together is powerful enough to neutralize some of the TBB enhanced by Madara's PS Blade. A single Bijuu dama could easily turn an entire mountain to dust.
While Madara's PS Blade is powerful enough to cleave multiple mountains in a single swing
Luffy have no on panel feat capable of stopping those kinds of attacks.
you literally said "lol.island sized?" as a response to me saying Noah is island sized. Deflecting.
Last I remember you started your response with "Luffy's Elephant Gatling back in FMI destroyed half of an Island Sizedship". You're the one deflecting here when the damage done by Luffy is not even half of the size of Noah.
You went from "Kaido and Luffy have no feat on this level" to "this feat from Luffy can't beat Hashirama"
Lol. Actually, I already stated in post number 37 that Sage Mode Hashirama could actually solo. So I'm not moving any goalpost.
Nice job using anime outlier anime filler scenes that literally contradict what actually happened in the manga. We see dozens if not hundreds of the Buddha's arms getting torn to pieces,and in the second page after the clash ended, we see all of the Buddha's arms were severed and smashed lol. And all that the Buddha managed to do was take the brunt of the attacks from Madara and strip off a portion of the Susanoo.
Lol. the anime did not contradict the manga since the Buddha's arm succeeded in hitting Madara's Susanoo. While a single arm could overpower a single TBB enhanced by Madara's PS blade, the arms are not strong enough to overpower the detonation of multiple TBB enhanced by Madara's PS blade.
I'm not even gonna bother with countering this argument, since it's not what the OP is about in the first place, again you're moving the goalpost.
In short, you can't provide any on panel feat of Luffy comparable to the amount of damage that Sage Hashirama could unleashed. Your concession is accepted.
The facts are this:
Those are not facts, they are your Headcanons. Lol
Luffy's Elephant Gatling at the end of FMI arc is just as impressive if not more impressive than the Wooden Buddha
Lol. That's a Headcanon. It was not even comparable to the attacking power of Bijuu dama.
Luffy has grown a lot since then
Has grown and still have no on panel feats to challenge the on panel feats of Hashirama.
the Buddha would literally not do any damage to Luffy or Kaido.
All Luffy did tank is Kaido's Breath attack that can't even instantly destroy an entire mountain.
Luffy is immune to blunt damage,
Luffy has no on panel feat of being immune to Blunt damage enhanced by four different kind of energies.
and Kaido no-sold stronger blunt force attacks
When did Kaido no-sold a blunt force attack that can instantly turn an entire mountain to dust?
Oh and of course, 4 Kages are literal statues compared to Luffy and Kaido, but i thought it's a pretty redundant thing to say
Lol. Another Headcanon. All Naruto Characters above KCM Naruto are light speed as shown on panel in Naruto ch 505 when KCM Naruto blitz Kisame and is supported by the on panel statement of both Killer Bee and Tsunade in Naruto ch 505 and ch 544.
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On the other hand, Does Luffy or Kaido has the on panel feat of moving faster than the speed of light? If yes, kindly provide the chapter on where the feat is shown. Thank you.
@requiemcross I'm not even bother with the Buddha - Luffy point anymore, since you clearly simply don't understand either what i'm telling you or what's going on in the manga
regarding speed
Lol. Another Headcanon. All Naruto Characters above KCM Naruto are light speed as shown on panel in Naruto ch 505 when KCM Naruto blitz Kisame and is supported by the on panel statement of both Killer Bee and Tsunade in Naruto ch 505 and ch 544.
2 quick things:
1. Naruto as a series is notorious for how inconsistent it is with speeds 2. Prove that Flying Raijin is LS/FTL
On the other hand, Does Luffy or Kaido has the on panel feat of moving faster than the speed of light? If yes, kindly provide the chapter on where the feat is shown. Thank you.
Characters weaker and slower than them dodged light, outsped light or have LS attacks. Hell Luffy himself did it when he was weaker.
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Sanji going FTE to Queen who's Relativistic/Relativistic+
@requiemcross I'm not even bother with the Buddha - Luffy point anymore, since you clearly simply don't understand either what i'm telling you or what's going on in the manga
regarding speed
Lol. Another Headcanon. All Naruto Characters above KCM Naruto are light speed as shown on panel in Naruto ch 505 when KCM Naruto blitz Kisame and is supported by the on panel statement of both Killer Bee and Tsunade in Naruto ch 505 and ch 544.
2 quick things:
1. Naruto as a series is notorious for how inconsistent it is with speeds
2. Prove that Flying Raijin is LS/FTL
On the other hand, Does Luffy or Kaido has the on panel feat of moving faster than the speed of light? If yes, kindly provide the chapter on where the feat is shown. Thank you.
Characters weaker and slower than them dodged light, outsped light or have LS attacks. Hell Luffy himself did it when he was weaker.
Gallery
Sanji going FTE to Queen who's Relativistic/Relativistic+
my opinion = fax
ur opinion = creditless
I'm not even bother with the Buddha - Luffy point anymore, since you clearly simply don't understand either what i'm telling you or what's going on in the manga
Your concession is accepted. And please follow your own words, do not confused your Headcanon with the canon events in the manga.
regarding speed
2 quick things:
1. Naruto as a series is notorious for how inconsistent it is with speeds
2. Prove that Flying Raijin is LS/FTL
1. They are not inconsistent, Kishimoto only shows that Naruto's new opponents is more powerful than his previous forms.
2. By entering a dimensional void, users can instantly teleport to a technique formula's location whenever they please, regardless of distance.
Characters weaker and slower than them dodged light,
Any one who mastered the Observation Haki could do that by moving before the light is released.
outsped light
No one in the scans you provided out sped light.
or have LS attacks. Hell Luffy himself did it when he was weaker.
I've been asking that feat since post number 45. Can you please provide the on panel feat of either Kaido or Luffy moving at the speed of light?
About your scans, please simply provide the on panel feat of either Luffy or Kaido.
First scan of Niji: Niji's ability is lightning. Does Niji have any on panel feat of moving faster than the speed of light or you and your fellow fan simply assumed that he is light speed due to the name of his sword technique?
Second scan of Sanji: How did that proved that Sanji is light speed? Sanji avoided that attack thanks to his observation haki. He jump before the laser could be released.
Third scan of Luffy: Same with Sanji, Luffy avoided PX's attack thanks to his Observation Haki. Luffy said that the PX is slow due to the time it took before it released its laser.
Fourth scan of Marco: Same with Sanji, Marco also possess the ability to use Observation Haki before Kizaru could unleashed his light attacks. Marco is also nearer to the position of White Beard so he does not need to out sped the lasers
Sanji going FTE to Queen who's Relativistic/Relativistic+
Queen have no on panel feat of moving at Light speed. And please stay on topic about Luffy and Kaido. The feat of Niji, Sanji and Marco are not the feat of Kaido or Luffy.
Round 2: They lose due to the fact that Hokage are Edo and One Piece team don't have anything to do to beat Immortality (Btw Luffy doesn't have Immortality just instant regen).
Unless Fire mode Kaido's heat can vaporize the Hokage since they have no counter to them being vaporized, If they can come back from being melt/vaporized then yes they can't beat Edo form.
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