Lucifer (Supernatural) vs THor (MCU)

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EjorpSnruteR

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Can't he just put Thor in an pocket dimension like his trickster brother likes to do?

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RampageTheFirst

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Thor has no feats to suggest he can resist molecular manipulation.

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9dragons

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#53  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79:

Weakened or not, Lucifer is still an archangel and an angel blade had indeed wound him this is a fact depicted in the show. Entities just have to wound him enough, weaken him, to finish the blow with angel blade. Also, the Darkness, Lucifer, Micheal, Death, Leviathans demonstrated that you don't need an angel blade to kill an angel, even an archangel, provided that the force you have is sufficiently powerful enough to do the job and Thor certainly is more than capable, by feats.

Castiel mentions to dean that angels can only have influence on regions with devoted followers, who act as their eyes and ears etc. In TV canon, Lucifer was never an independent powerful entity, he is less powerful without influence. Lucifer's war in heaven relied primary on amassing an army of angels to overthrow "god", he isn't remotely able to do so alone, and after his fall to hell, he created demon followers, corrupted humans, and amassed worshipers to rise again. In season thirteen, he still making a deals with angels, Duma, so they would recognize him as the ruler of heaven, he needs influence to be powerful.

Note, you quoted my comment before I finished editing it, please reread. Thank you.

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RR79

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@9dragons said:

@rr79:

Weakened or not, Lucifer is still an archangel and an angel blade had indeed wound him this is a fact depicted in the show. Entities just have to wound him enough, weaken him, to finish the blow with angel blade. Besides, the Darkness, Lucifer, Micheal, Death, Leviathans demonstrated that you don't need an angel blade to kill an angel, provide the force you have is sufficiently powerful enough to do the job and Thor certainly is more than capable, by feats.

There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest that a regular angel blade would kill Lucifer even in his weakened state. There is ample evidence that a regular angel blade cannot kill an Archangel(what Lucifer is). You are arguing a lost cause. You then bring up the Darkness, Lucifer, Michael, Death, and Leviathans. Lets, go through those one by one shall we? First is the Darkness, God's sister. Of course she would be powerful enough to kill an angel, she is more powerful than God himself. Lucifer and Michael. They are destined to always fight each other and are the two most powerful Archangels in existence. Death has stated that he will reap God himself one day. Leviathans never killed any Archangels, just low class angels. No amount of "force" has ever killed an Archangel in the show. It has always been either a more powerful Archangel or a magically enhanced item.

Castiel mentions to dean that angels can only have influence on regions with devoted followers, who act as their eyes and ears etc. In TV canon, Lucifer was never independent powerful entity, he is less powerful without influence. Lucifer war in heaven relied on amassing an army of angel followers to overthrow "god", he isn't remotely able to do so alone, and after his fall to hell he created demon followers, corrupted humans, and amassed worshipers to rise again. In season thirteen, he still making a deals with angels, Duma, so they would recognize him as the ruler of heaven, he need influence to be more powerful.

It doesn't really matter what Cas has said(especially taking into account the many times he has been wrong) when we have literally seen Lucifer in a place with zero worshipers and still at full power. You are pulling that second sentence out of your ass. Of COURSE he had to amass an army to overthrow God. God is so much more powerful than Lucifer it isn't even funny. That's like saying I would have to amass an army to overthrow the US government, that is obvious. In season thirteen he is massively weakened still. Don't forget the Michael from the alternate earth drained him of most of his grace.

Note, you quoted my comment before I finished editing it, please reread. Thank you.

Nothing you added changed anything I said and I had already addressed it.

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9dragons

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#55  Edited By 9dragons

@ejorpsnruter:

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the dimension and destroy Gabriel's vessel.

@rampagethefirst:

Lucifer doesn't manipulate molecules, he manipulates grace, energy of angels. He also claims to be able to create angels as well, not much of a milestone since a human manage to come up with angel killing bullets. Lucifer has no feats of tanking anything remotely as devastating as Thor's hammer or god lightening shown in the movies.

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9dragons

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#56  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79:

By on screen feats, the darkness isn't that powerful compared to MCU entities. She isn't even as powerful as Hela or God Thor, on screen. I haven't seen one feat on screen that is comparable to Thor from the first movie.

The angels was specifically against Dean and Sam severing heaven's connection from earth because it would weaken their power. The monster pagan gods once stated because the angel's stole their influence over the masses they became weaker while the angels became stronger. Lucifer, an archangel, operates the same way. He may have inherent power, but requires influence to be a powerhouse.

Note, please read the time stamp. You addressed the comments before I edited and you keep omitting the fact that humans manage to get the better of Lucifer. Also, it would be great if you don't bold and underline your comments, its hard to read.

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RR79

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@9dragons said:

@rr79:

By feats, the darkness isn't that powerful compared to MCU entities. She isn't even as powerful as Hela or God Thor.

She was going to destroy the entire universe, neither Hela or Thor(post Ragnarok) have even a fraction of that type of power.

The angels was specifically against Dean and Sam severing heaven's connection from earth because it would weaken their power. The monster pagan gods once stated because the angel's stole their influence over the masses they became weaker while the angels became stronger.

And yet, we still have evidence for that to not be true, or at least to not be entirely true at least in Lucifer's case. He was in a place that he had zero worshipers and was still at full power.

Note, please read the time stamp. You addressed the comments before I edited and you keep omitting the fact that humans, with humans manage to get the better of Lucifer.

I read the time stamp, I read your edit. Nothing you added in changed anything I said and I did NOT omit that Lucifer had suffered a beating by Mary using magically enhanced brass knuckles. I addressed that before you even edited it into your comment.

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RampageTheFirst

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#58  Edited By RampageTheFirst

@9dragons said:

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the dimension and destroy Gabriel's vessel.

I don't see how this refutes my point because;

  1. This thread is based on Lucifer and not Gabriel
  2. Thor still has yet to demonstrate resistance to molecular manipulation
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RR79

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@9dragons said:

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the dimension and destroy Gabriel's vessel.

I don't see how this refutes my point because;

  1. This thread is based on Lucifer and not Gabriel
  2. Thor still has yet to demonstrate resistance to molecular manipulation

Not to mention the fact that if he wanted Thor would not even know he was in a pocket dimension(just like with The Mystery Spot).

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RampageTheFirst

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@rr79 said:
@rampagethefirst said:
@9dragons said:

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the dimension and destroy Gabriel's vessel.

I don't see how this refutes my point because;

  1. This thread is based on Lucifer and not Gabriel
  2. Thor still has yet to demonstrate resistance to molecular manipulation

Not to mention the fact that if he wanted Thor would not even know he was in a pocket dimension(just like with The Mystery Spot).

Yup and I think it's quite pointless debating with someone who thinks Hela or Post-Ragnarok Thor are on par with The Darkness LOL.

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deltahuman

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Lucifer one shots

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EjorpSnruteR

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@9dragons said:

@rampagethefirst:

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the dimension and destroy Gabriel's vessel.

@ejorpsnruter:

Lucifer doesn't manipulate molecules, he manipulates grace, energy of angels. He also claims to be able to create angels as well, not much of a milestone since a human manage to come up with angel killing bullets. Lucifer has no feats of tanking anything remotely has powerful as thor's hammer or god lightening.

I didn't mention anything about molecules.

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FirestormFate1919

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Lucifer curbstomps

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9dragons

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#64  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79 said:
@9dragons said:

@rr79:

He would certainly die if the angel blade was wielded by amply powerful being, the darkness for example, or if he was stabbed in the same manner as Zachariah.

No, he absolutely would not. We have already seen that a regular Angel Blade will NOT work on Archangels, period.

In an alternate earth, Micheal physically tore Lucifer apart with sheer force in the final showdown and afterwards became the self proclaimed god after a long war. In theory, Lucifer is essentially being power fed by the remnants of heaven/ humans left in the apocalyptic world or more precisely north America, since the landmass and inhabitants was ruled by Micheal lead angels. In this reality Micheal relied heavily on Kevin Tran, a human prophet, to summon a portal to another reality, I would take Micheal's self proclaim godhood with a grain of salt.

Yes, after Lucifer was already beaten down by magical enhanced brass knuckles and pushed through a portal to an alternate earth. Your theory doesn't make any sense as their Lucifer is already dead, there would nobody feeding him anything. And I am not sure why you are bringing up Michael when we aren't talking about him. The only thing mentioned about Michael is him torturing Lucifer in this alternate earth and stealing most of his grace, which is why Lucifer was so weakened that his weakest Knight of Hell was able to treat him like a lowly demon. Which is why when Castiel stabbed him with the angel blade, it hurt him. Think of it like this, the Angel Blade is no more powerful(many would argue less powerful) than the Colt that killed just about anything with a single shot. Lucifer was one of only 4 beings that the Colt could not kill when he was at his normal power levels.

Also, Lucifer isn't completely powerless without worshipers neither are the pagan monsters, but he is weaker. Absent of worship. Lucifer runs on grace, a limited energy within angels.

Except, you are going off headcanon, Absolutely nothing supports him being weaker because he has no followers.

About the Darkness

Yes, she is more powerful than Thor by statements, but not by physical feats. I meant she hasn't demonstrated anything more impressive on screen than Thor in the first movie.

The key terms being, she was going to. She wanted to destroy "god's" creation, his "universe". We don't even know the scope of "god's" creation in the TV show, could be just the milk way galaxy, just few worlds or, just the earth, his most prized creation by lore, and the dimensions connected to earth, heaven, hell etc. The darkness studied human history to understand "god's" creation, implying she was only going to destroy earth and the dimensions connected to earth because god had "screwed up". She reached her judgment by human history, earth's history and decided on earth's and its divine dimensions' fate.

We don't know her method of destruction either, direct explosion? chain reaction? artifacts? By statements, chain reaction seems more plausible, as in DC Imperiex style.

By high end statements, according to "god", it would take the energy of approximately 10,000 suns to destroy her, she is much much lower than galaxy level, the number of stars in a galaxy number 100 billion. By low end statements, the energy of 200,000 human souls could potentially destroy her, less than a quarter of the city of Manhattan, city level. She was once battered by the combined smite of angels and an army of smoke demons, weakened and wounded to point of admitting defeat. Although, her pitiful state lowered "god's" guard enough for her to surprise attack him. Note, in an alternate reality the planet and the visible landmass, north America, and visible structures survived the long war between angels and demons, including Micheal and Lucifer, as group they are much lower than planetary threat.

Prior to the angel smite, five Human witches had brought her to her knees and burn her face and shoulder.

About Worshipers

In the alternate reality, his worshipers consists of demons, he is the father of all demons inhabiting the ruined north America that Micheal ruled. He need people, demons or humans, to recognize his existence to bring out his full power. There was a sufficient population of demons to pose a threat for surviving humans, Bobby had to carry a machine gun around to fend for himself, and angels had to patrol the region for demons.

Micheal as a reference for Lucifer

Lucifer is much much much weaker than the darkness, she can effortless kill him, so she isn't a suitable candidate for referencing his strength. However, Micheal is closer to Lucifer, power wise and bit more powerful, given that Micheal was the victor every time they fought. If there are things that Micheal can't do, Lucifer shouldn't be able to do either. In the alternate reality, Micheal was unable to physically or magically fix the ruined world, north America, he ruled. He didn't have the power to leave that world, move to the other "worlds" death had mentioned, and relied on a human prophet to cast portal spells for him. Note, alternate reality Micheal seem a lot more powerful than his main counterpart, given how easily he beat down main reality Lucifer.

Note, my edited comment time stamp came before your reply, about an hour. You didn't mention who, Mary, a human with enchanted human made brass knuckles, had beat Lucifer bloody, stunned enough to drop his angel weapon, and fumbled into the portal because he can barely stand. If she can do it, Thor would devastate his vessel.

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For those who don't watch supernatural, Lucifer is the man getting humbled by the woman, human, no super strength or speed, equip with man made enchanted brass knuckles.

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EjorpSnruteR

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Darkness already destroyed universes. It's the main reason she was locked away.

She's also confirmed to be stronger than God, who we know, without a doubt, created the universe.

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9dragons

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#66  Edited By 9dragons

@ejorpsnruter

She destroyed multiple "worlds" that god created, not universes, before she was locked away. Yes, she is stronger than "god" and she can be killed. We don't know the process of how the universe came to be, it could be one "god" shaping multiple worlds/ celestial bodies for a incomprehensible amount of time or it could be multiple gods shaping worlds together. We don't know. However, we do know there is an entity that predate "god", the cosmic entity, who's realm not even god can tamper with. Ironically, even this deity isn't completely omnipotent, even in his own realm.

Free will > Cosmic entity > Darkness (world destroyer) > "god"

Note, the darkness learned about supernatural "universe" through human history. You can't learn about the Marvel universe, or any other universe through human history alone, we are, but a speck in the universe. In marvel, the phoenix can't decide through human history and place judgment on the alien shi'ar empire, that doesn't make sense.

Thor > Micheal > Lucifer

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RR79

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@9dragons said:

About the Darkness

Yes, she is more powerful than Thor by statements, but not by physical feats. I meant she hasn't demonstrated anything more impressive on screen than Thor in the first movie.

This is mainly because when she first showed up she had just been released from the prison God and Lucifer and other angels put her in. Remember, Lucifer was among the ones that locked her away. Anyway, she was massively weakened to the point of not even knowing who she was at first. Then, by the time she had regained her power, other than the one battle with God(Chuck), Lucifer, Rowenna and Sam and Dean she ended up deciding not to destroy everything that God created because they reconciled and he went off with her.

The key terms being, she was going to. She wanted to destroy "god's" creation, his "universe". We don't even know the scope of "god's" creation in the TV show, could be just the milk way galaxy, just few worlds or, just the earth, his most prized creation by lore, and the dimensions connected to earth, heaven, hell etc. The darkness studied human history to understand "god's" creation, implying she was only going to destroy earth and the dimensions connected to earth because god had "screwed up". She reached her judgment by human history, earth's history and decided on earth's and its divine dimensions' fate.

Never once was it ever said that she was only going to destroy the Earth. It was specifically said that she was going to destroy everything God had created. So the above paragraph does not matter.

We don't know her method of destruction either, direct explosion? chain reaction? artifacts? By statements, chain reaction seems more plausible, as in DC Imperiex style.

Does it matter? Even if she was only going to destroy on world at a time(something that would take eon's to destroy everything God created) that is still massively more powerful than anything Thor or Hela ever did in any movie to date.

By high end statements, according to "god", it would take the energy of approximately 10,000 suns to destroy her, she is much much lower than galaxy level, the number of stars in a galaxy number 100 billion. By low end statements, the energy of 200,000 human souls could potentially destroy her, less than a quarter of the city of Manhattan, city level. She was once battered by the combined smite of angels and an army of smoke demons, weakened and wounded to point of admitting defeat. Although, her pitiful state lowered "god's" guard enough for her to surprise attack him. Note, in an alternate reality the planet and the visible landmass, north America, survived the long war between angels and demons, including Micheal and Lucifer, as group they are much lower than planetary threat.

By contrast, it wouldn't take the energy of a single sun to destroy MCU Thor. And you do realize that soul energy cannot be measured like that right? Also keep in mind that when the combined Angels smited her, she was still nowhere near her full power and it actually didn't do any real damage to her. She wasn't even KOed by it.

Prior to the angel smite, five Human witches had brought her to her knees and burn her face and shoulder.

Five of the most powerful witches when she was far from her full power. That's like saying that Thor, when he was human could have been killed by another human. It's kind of stupid to judge a person based on when they are not at their full power.

About Worshipers

In the alternate reality, his worshipers consists of demons, he is the father of all demons inhabiting the ruined north America that Micheal ruled. He need people, demons or humans, to recognize his existence to bring out his full power. There was a sufficient population of demons to pose a threat for surviving humans, Bobby had to carry a machine gun around to fend for himself, and angels had to patrol the region for demons.

Except for the simple fact that in that alternate Earth, their Lucifer was already destroyed. You don't worship someone that is already destroyed. They might have still fought against the Angels but that is simply because if they didn't the Angels would have just killed them anyway. Lucifer had no worshipers on that Earth and was still at full power.

Micheal as a reference for Lucifer

Lucifer is much much much weaker than the darkness, she can effortless kill him, so she isn't a suitable candidate for referencing his strength. However, Micheal is closer to Lucifer, power wise and bit more powerful, given that Micheal was the victor every time they fought. If there are things that Micheal can't do, Lucifer shouldn't be able to do either. In the alternate reality, Micheal was unable to physically or magically fix the ruined world, north America, he ruled. He didn't have the power to leave that world, move to the other "worlds" death had mentioned, and relied on a human prophet to cast portal spells for him. Note, alternate reality Micheal seem a lot more powerful than his main counterpart, given how easily he beat down main reality Lucifer.

He is much weaker than the Darkness. However, she didn't kill him effortlessly when they attacked her. Yes Michael and Lucifer are close in power. You do not know that he was unable or just uninterested in fixing it. The angels, Michael included, have never had any interest in fixing the human world. It wasn't that Michael didn't have the power to leave that world, it was that it took a spell that he did not know, hence the use of the prophet reading the tablet that only a prophet(or the scribe of God) could read.

Note, my edited comment time stamp came before your reply, about an hour. You didn't mention who, Mary, a human with enchanted human made brass knuckles, had beat Lucifer bloody, stunned enough to drop his angel weapon, and fumbled into the portal because he can barely stand. If she can do it, Thor would devastate his vessel.

You do realize the time stamp comes from when you first post right? It doesn't change when you edit your post. Fact is, if you had edited before my comment your edit would be in my comment that I quoted from you. It doesn't matter who hurt him, they are MAGICAL brass knuckles, made specifically to hurt angels. That's like saying the Infinity Gauntlet is weak because someone like Tony Stark is using it.

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For those who don't watch supernatural, Lucifer is the man getting humbled by the woman, human, no super strength or speed, equip with man made enchanted brass knuckles.

Again:

It doesn't matter who hurt him, they are MAGICAL brass knuckles, made specifically to hurt angels. That's like saying the Infinity Gauntlet is weak because someone like Tony Stark is using it.

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EjorpSnruteR

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#68  Edited By EjorpSnruteR

You know world can also mean universe right?

Why would they feel wholly threatened enough if she only destroyed a few planets? She was destroying God's creation until they finally locked her away. Then God was finally able to create the material world (she makes it a note that his creation is actually beautiful when she has her change of heart)

She's also said to be one of the thread that holds the universe together. That's why they could only lock her away and not kill her.

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They even talk about how Amara, when she destroys God's work, she destroys everything. Planets are not what they are talking about when they mention world.

P.S. It is irrelevant how long God took. Hundreds, thousands of years, and that is still leaps and bounds greater than anything Thor or anyone in MCU has done. That was the point.

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9dragons

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#69  Edited By 9dragons

@ejorpsnruter:

Sorry, I swapped the reply tag, by accident.

@rr79:

The entire episode was about Gabriel teaching Sam a lesson, trapping Sam when he isn't aware, sleeping to be exact. If Sam, a human, manage to be aware and find the trickster, why can't Thor? Also, archangels can't conjure illusions mid combat, never had.

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EjorpSnruteR

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#71  Edited By EjorpSnruteR

@9dragons said:

@ejorpsnruter:

Sorry, I swapped the reply tag, by accident.

"By high end statements, according to "god", it would take the energy of approximately 10,000 suns to destroy her"

This is actually incorrect. Chuck never mentioned anything about energy when referring to that, he was talking about the light. He was also not even sure it would work, nor how many (kinda sound like he guessed). Here's the actual quote

"Castiel: She does seem impossible to destroy.

[...]

Sam: Is she, Chuck?

[...]

God: The Darkness might - might - have a weakness: Light.

[...]

Sam: How much light are we talking about?

God: I don't know. 10,000 suns set to supernova?"

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9dragons

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#72  Edited By 9dragons

@ejorpsnruter:

"God created many worlds to show The Darkness that there could be more than just the two of them, but she would always destroy them." This statement meant "god" and darkness had the create and destroy situation multiple times til "god" couldn't tolerate her anymore, one world after another, not a universe, considering the Darkness judged a "world's" fate by its history, human history.

"All your great work" said, Metatron to "god".

The darkness is a thread to the "universe" because she and "god" are fundamental part of "god's" creation, due to their relationship, her death can collapse "worlds" connected to "god", but the cosmic entity and his void realm will certainly remain and in theory, "worlds" or "universe" and "entities" unrelated to "god" will remain.

I phrased it as energy because it seem more impressive than being destroyed by light. Also, you don't think "god" knew the approximate power require to destroy his sister, but he knew how much power was required to seal her? We are talking about "god", he should know the ball park, he might not be completely accurate, but it wouldn't be too off considering who he is.

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RR79

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@9dragons said:

@rr79:

The entire episode was about Gabriel teaching Sam a lesson, trapping Sam when he isn't aware, sleeping to be exact. If Sam, a human, manage to be aware and find the trickster, why can't Thor? Also, archangels can't conjure illusions mid combat, never had.

It took Sam the entire episode(which took place over months) to break out of the illusion cast by a weaker Angel. Yes they have. Gabriel has in fact when Lucifer killed him.

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Lucifer solos MCU

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TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings

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How is this still not locked yet, and why was this even bumped in the first place? Lucifer stomps in an unholy mismatch here, and I don't understand anyone who knows the what the character is from Supernatural thinks Thor has a chance her.

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9dragons

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#76  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79:

Darkness power transition

"While on Earth, The Darkness has taken the body of a female baby, Amara. Since regaining her power by consuming human souls, she matured and grew into a young woman in just a few months." The darkness was at full power during the angel smite and demon smoke attack, she was a young adult, not a teenager, not a child, not a baby. Her visible age was concurrent with her power and she was clearly powerful enough to seek out "god" and enact vengeance, complete confidence.

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The Darkness v.s. Lucifer

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After Lucifer blasted the Darkness with "the hand of god", an artifact that contain "god's" power with no effect, he was forcefully ported away by the darkness. Lucifer pleaded with the Darkness, to join forces, because he full out knew she was way out of his league. She rejected and tortured him to lure out "god". Lucifer screamed his lungs out as he was tortured, completely helpless.

Note, Lucifer was in a vessel that can bring out his full power and amp with a powerful weapon, not a single mark on the darkness.

The Darkness after angel smite and smoke demon attack

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Note., for people that didn't watch supernatural, the angel smite blast, didn't destroy the surrounding area, nor was the bystander's body destroyed, but it did scatter the darkness and force her to reform.

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She was battered and weakened to the point that Lucifer manage to harm her once while she was focused at "god", impales her from behind, stealth style. She lost her resolve to fight, she told "god", he had won. She requested for death, but freaked out when "god" was going to seal her again, she was scared of the cage more than death. "God" was caught off guard while focusing to seal her, emotionally off guard. Lucifer tried to stop her and was rag dolled into a pillar and ripped out of his vessel, even wounded and beaten down she can still can easily take out Lucifer.

Note, This thread is about MCU Thor v.s. Supernatural Lucifer, let's not turn this into MCU Thor v.s. Supernatural Darkness.

Micheal and the alternate world

Micheal was desperate to get out of his world because he saw that the "main world" was in a much better state. Why would he want to leave when he had the power the "fix" his world or didn't care about its state? The prophecy of the final showdown between Micheal and Lucifer ended with Micheal creating a paradise, he was unable to do so because he lacked the power.

I will try to be more clear, Lucifer can fed off people's beliefs, being aware of that he is real not fictional. These beliefs bring him to full power. In the alternate world, there is a demon population and small fragmented human population who thinks he is real.

Lucifer vs. Mary

The enchanted weapon didn't increase Mary's reaction speed, movement speed, nor strength, only the ability to hurt angels. Lucifer was battered repeatedly, unable to react and stand properly, from the strength and reflex of a human woman. Lucifer was first hit with a warning punch, he than taunted her and fully expected her next punch, but he was unable to react.

In the supernatural TV, with ample power and magic can anyone can be hurt or killed. Thor had shown enough power output to put down Lucifer's vessel and destroy his essence, or at least scatter his essence.

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RR79

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@9dragons: I am replying instead of quoting because your posts are getting too long with too many GIFs that slow peoples pages down. I will quote the parts necessary from your post.

The darkness was at full power during the angel smite and demon smoke attack, she was a young adult, not a teenager, not a child, not a baby. Her visible age was concurrent with her power and she was clearly powerful enough to seek out "god" and enact vengeance, complete confidence.

That would be your assumption that she was at full power. If she was truly at full power, why not just destroy everything then and there to draw God out?

After Lucifer blasted the Darkness with "the hand of god", an artifact that contain "god's" power with no effect, he was forceful ported away by the darkness. Lucifer pleaded with the Darkness, to join forces, because he full out knew she was way out of his league. She rejected and tortured him to lure out "god". Lucifer screamed his lungs out as he was tortured, completely helpless.

Note, Lucifer was in a vessel that can bring out his full power and amp with a powerful weapon, not a single mark on the darkness.

Of course the Darkness is much more powerful than Lucifer, I don't believe anyone here has argued that she isn't. Small side note though, Lucifer has only technically been in a vessel that could bring his full power out once in the entire show. His current vessel isn't bad but it isn't full power. Only Sam, his true vessel, can bring his full power out. Either way though he would still be much weaker than the Darkness.

Note people that didn't watch supernatural, the angel smite blast, didn't destroy the surround area, nor the body of the bystander that was destroyed, but it did scatter her and force her to reform.

Are you really going with the whole "didn't destroy the surrounding area" argument? That is a bad argument as even in the show it is shown that they are focusing the attack on her. It would be similar to Ki control in the DB verse.

She was battered and weakened to the point that Lucifer manage to harm her once while she was focused at "god", impales her from behind, stealth style. She lost her resolve to fight, she told "god", he had won. She requested for death, but freaked out when "god" was going to seal her again, she was scared of the cage more than death. "God" was caught off guard while focusing to seal her, emotionally off guard. Lucifer tried to stop her and was rag dolled into a pillar and ripped out of his vessel, even wounded and beaten down she can still can easily take out Lucifer.

Just to be perfectly clear, what you are talking about here happens much later and is after being attacked by God, Lucifer, Rowena(with a coven behind her), Crowley, and Sam and Dean. I do agree she can easily take Lucifer out, only thing I pointed out is that when she was really pissed at him, she didn't destroy him.

Note, This thread is about MCU Thor v.s. Supernatural Lucifer, let's not turn this into MCU Thor v.s. Supernatural Darkness.

To be fair, this started because you tried to claim that Thor and Hela were more powerful than the Darkness, who was going to destroy everything God had created. Simple fact is, they are not even close to a fraction of her power. But agreed, this is Lucifer vs MCU Thor, not the Darkness.

Micheal was desperate to get out of his world because he saw that the "main world" was in a much better state. Why would he want to leave when he had the power the "fix" his world or didn't care about its state? The prophecy of the final showdown between Micheal and Lucifer ended with Micheal creating a paradise, he was unable to do so because he lacked the power.

Again this is your assumption. Almost no angel has ever cared what state the world was in. Most even wanted to bring about Armageddon and end the world. So once again, you are assuming things that are not supported by the show.

I will try to be more clear, Lucifer can fed off people's beliefs, being aware of that he is real not fictional. These beliefs bring him to full power. In the alternate world, there is a demon population and small fragmented human population who thinks he is real.

I know what Lucifer can do, but you are still yet missing the point. Do I need to capitalize it for you? LUCIFER, IN THE ALTERNATE EARTH, HAS BEEN DESTROYED. HE HAS NO WORSHIPERS THERE.

The enchanted weapon didn't increase Mary's reaction speed, movement speed nor strength, only a man made ability to hurt angels. Lucifer was battered repeatedly, unable to react and stand properly, from the strength and reflex of a human woman. Lucifer was first hit with a warning punch, he than taunted her and fully expected her next punch, but he was unable to react.

It didn't have to increase that. He was standing there and letting her hit him. It wasn't like he was trying to dodge, if he wanted to do that she would never touch him. He, just like other angels, can teleport instantly. He is egotistical and wanted to prove she could not hurt him and though she staggered him, she really didn't do any real damage.

In the supernatural TV, with ample power and magic can anyone can be hurt or killed. Thor had shown enough power output to put down Lucifer's vessel and even destroy his essence.

This isn't exactly true. There are many creatures in the Supernatural verse that can only be killed by specific means, no matter the amount of power used against them. Thor has shown nothing capable of killing Lucifer. Could he temporarily destroy his vessel? Maybe. But that wouldn't matter as he could easily simply reform it. If Lucifer were serious Thor wouldn't stand a chance. And no, Thor has shown NOTHING capable of destroying Lucifer's "essence".

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9dragons

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#78  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79:

The Darkness power

RR79 said, "That would be your assumption that she was at full power. If she was truly at full power, why not just destroy everything then and there to draw God out?".

An assumption is a thing that is accepted as true or as certain, without proof. You stated she wasn't at full power, that is contradiction to canon. The show had shown the audience on screen proof she fully regained her powers through her transitional stages, baby, child, teen and woman, and the method she used, human souls absorption. Your statement would make sense if she was attacked as a child, in her partial powered state. In addition, her will and actions are proof that she was self aware that she reached full power, at the stage of a woman, she sought out God because she had the power and full confidence to destroy him. Furthermore, when she was battered and beaten she came to terms with her defeat and perceived imminent death, didn't hold bitterness or regrets because of lack of power, rather emotional regret because of her love and hate for her brother.

You asked "why not just destroy everything then and there to draw God out?" This is making another assumption that she could instantly destroy the planet, I am not saying she can't destroy a planet, but we don't know what methods she used to destroy worlds prior to her confinement, wounding "god" to the point that it impact the planet, unleash underlings, pollute the world, destroy the ozone, employing artifacts, etc, numerous possibilities. Her on screen attempt to destroy the world, she wounded "god" enough to affect the sun, the sun began to die, and the planet would've likely froze over and flew out of orbit. She left "god" to slowly watch the death of his "creation".

Lucifer in alternate reality

Lucifer being dead, doesn't stop others from thinking he was a real person, non fictional. They don't have to physically worship him, just be aware he isn't a fictional character. In the show, the angels grew more powerful by being considered real, while the monster pagans grew weaker in the local area, north America, because the masses considered them fictional. In the alternate world, there was a population of demons that threaten surviving humans, Bobby carried machine gun around to fend off these demons and angels had to patrol the region for demons. Lucifer led the demons in a long war against Micheal and the angels. Although, he died as a Martyr, Lucifer still exists in beliefs of the surviving demons and a nightmare to humans, he isn't a fictional character like the pagans, at least in north America where the story take place.

Micheal in the alternate reality

High tier angel, Zachariah described the prophecy, Micheal and Lucifer would battle. Michael expected to be victorious, so as to bring about paradise on Earth. "Bring paradise to earth" was part of Micheal's mission from his father. He fulfilled the first part of the prophecy, but regretful couldn't fulfill the last part until he probed into main reality Lucifer's memories, and found his "paradise". Angels follow orders, they are soldiers, and Micheal was ordered to lead the survivors in paradise. You are neglecting the lore of the series, it was previously established since the early seasons what Micheal's motives were.

Angels, their vessels, and death

If Angel's vessel is destroyed their essence need to seek out another vessel, unless there is a third party entity that is powerful enough to salvage, reform, and insert their essence back into that particular vessel. Like all other angels, Lucifer needs to find a strong enough vessel, rare for Lucifer, and get the permission of the human, he cannot force his way into a vessel. Also, Micheal had destroyed Lucifer's physical vessel and essence by tearing him apart in the alternate reality, with physical strength, something a powerful person with ample power can do.

note, Lucifer inside Castiel vessel, possessing Castiel with Castiel's permission, was two Angels in one vessel, an archangel and a Seraphim, high tier angel, stable and powerful, with Lucifer being dominate.

Gabriel and Sam

Gabriel was only able to trap Sam in a dream when Sam was sleeping, even than Sam, a ordinary person with no magical ability, became aware and found Gabriel. The situation is inapplicable to this battle because Thor isn't sleeping and even if he were, he would likely lucid dream and destroy the dream world via frost world hammer strike style, eventually hitting Gabriel as a byproduct. Note, the dream caster is always close by and within the dream.

Mary v.s. Lucifer

She did damage, she bled him, made grunt in agony, put him so much pain he dropped his weapon and fell into a portal because he couldn't stand properly.

No Caption Provided

Note, this is not the face of someone who wanted to get punch drunk through a portal.

Lucifer's physical strength v.s. Thor's physical strength

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Lucifer, in his destined vessel that can bring out his true power, heavy punches a human more than ten times, consecutively, and was surprised the human was still alive and conscious.

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Thor strike the stone giant once.

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nerdchore

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@9dragons: the darkness constantly destroyed gods worlds thats why he locked her up with the archangels help.

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RR79

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@9dragons said:

@rr79:

The Darkness power

RR79 said, "That would be your assumption that she was at full power. If she was truly at full power, why not just destroy everything then and there to draw God out?".

An assumption is a thing that is accepted as true or as certain, without proof. You stated she wasn't at full power, that is contradiction to canon. The show had shown the audience on screen proof she fully regained her powers through her transitional stages, baby, child, teen and woman, and the method she used, human souls absorption. Your statement would make sense if she was attacked as a child, in her partial powered state. In addition, her will and actions are proof that she was self aware that she reached full power, at the stage of a woman, she sought out God because she had the power and full confidence to destroy him. Furthermore, when she was battered and beaten she came to terms with her defeat and perceived imminent death, didn't hold bitterness or regrets because of lack of power, rather emotional regret because of her love and hate for her brother.

I'm sorry, what? Her not being at full power is absolutely NOT contradicted by canon. Her being an adult doesn't automatically give her full power or she would have stopped taking more souls. She would have had no need of them and we see her taking more souls after she is an adult.

You asked "why not just destroy everything then and there to draw God out?" This is making another assumption that she could instantly destroy the planet, I am not saying she can't destroy a planet, but we don't know what methods she used to destroy worlds prior to her confinement, wounding "god" to the point that it impact the planet, unleash underlings, pollute the world, destroy the ozone, employing artifacts, etc, numerous possibilities. Her on screen attempt to destroy the world, she wounded "god" enough to affect the sun, the sun began to die, and the planet would've likely froze over and flew out of orbit. She left "god" to slowly watch the death of his "creation".

You are wrong again. We already know beyond any doubt she can destroy worlds because she was stated to have done so before, that is the entire reason she was locked away. She never had an on screen attempt to destroy the world, what are you talking about?

Lucifer in alternate reality

Lucifer being dead, doesn't stop others from thinking he was a real person, non fictional. They don't have to physically worship him, just be aware he isn't a fictional character. In the show, the angels grew more powerful by being considered real, while the monster pagans grew weaker in the local area, north America, because the masses considered them fictional. In the alternate world, there was a population of demons that threaten surviving humans, Bobby carried machine gun around to fend off these demons and angels had to patrol the region for demons. Lucifer led the demons in a long war against Micheal and the angels. Although, he died as a Martyr, Lucifer still exists in beliefs of the surviving demons and a nightmare to humans, he isn't a fictional character like the pagans, at least in north America where the story take place.

Lucifer not just being dead but being completely destroyed and it being known throughout that alternate Earth absolutely stops him from having any worshipers. There is nothing left to worship there. You are putting forth nothing but headcanon and it is quite ridiculous to be honest. Demons existing does not, in any way, show him to have worshipers. What were they going to do? Throw themselves on the mercy of Michael and the other angels? They would have been killed anyway. Demons fighting for their very lives does not give him worshipers when said demons already know that Lucifer in that reality doesn't exist anymore. Stop putting forth ridiculous headcanon.

Micheal in the alternate reality

High tier angel, Zachariah described the prophecy, Micheal and Lucifer would battle. Michael expected to be victorious, so as to bring about paradise on Earth. "Bring paradise to earth" was part of Micheal's mission from his father. He fulfilled the first part of the prophecy, but regretful couldn't fulfill the last part until he probed into main reality Lucifer's memories, and found his "paradise". Angels follow orders, they are soldiers, and Micheal was ordered to lead the survivors in paradise. You are neglecting the lore of the series, it was previously established since the early seasons what Micheal's motives were.

You do realize alternate Earth Michael may or may not have the same motives as normal Earth Michael right? And even in the normal Earth most angels don't give a shit about Earth. They have proven that time and time and time again.

Angels, their vessels, and death

If Angel's vessel is destroyed their essence need to seek out another vessel, unless there is a third party entity that is powerful enough to salvage, reform, and insert their essence back into that particular vessel. Like all other angels, Lucifer needs to find a strong enough vessel, rare for Lucifer, and get the permission of the human, he cannot force his way into a vessel. Also, Micheal had destroyed Lucifer's physical vessel and essence by tearing him apart in the alternate reality, with physical strength, something a powerful person with ample power can do.

note, Lucifer inside Castiel vessel, possessing Castiel with Castiel's permission, was two Angels in one vessel, an archangel and a Seraphim, high tier angel, stable and powerful, with Lucifer being dominate.

This is not true at all. Castiel has had his vessel destroyed and had it reformed. Lucifer has had his vessel destroyed and reformed it(only time he wasn't able to was when he was in that aging rock star vessel because it was not anywhere near his full power, because it wasn't a proper vessel. Yes, Lucifer, like all angels, need he permission of the vessel to possess the vessel, but in this scenario he already has that permission. He absolutely will not have to find another vessel and Thor has shown nothing capable of destroying Lucifer or his essence.

Gabriel and Sam

Gabriel was only able to trap Sam in a dream when Sam was sleeping, even than Sam, a ordinary person with no magical ability, became aware and found Gabriel. The situation is inapplicable to this battle because Thor isn't sleeping and even if he were, he would likely lucid dream and destroy the dream world via frost world hammer strike style, eventually hitting Gabriel as a byproduct. Note, the dream caster is always close by and within the dream.

This is objectively false. Both Sam and Dean have been trapped in illusion several times by Gabriel and it wasn't because they were sleeping. It took Sam MONTHS to break out of Gabriels illusion's. Thor has shown no capability of seeing through illusions or breaking out of them, only knowing his brother and realizing he is likely to use illusions. He even took to throwing things at Loki to make sure it was really Loki. He wouldn't need to do so if he had any ability to see through illusion or break out of pocket realities.

Mary v.s. Lucifer

She did damage, she bled him, made grunt in agony, put him so much pain he dropped his weapon and fell into a portal because he couldn't stand properly.

Note, this is not the face of someone who wanted to get punch drunk through a portal.

She did no real damage. Shocking him because he didn't expect her to be able to hurt him at all is not doing damage. And enough with the GIF's, I have seen every single episode to date, I know what you are talking about without the GIF's and all they do is slow the page down.

Lucifer's physical strength v.s. Thor's physical strength

Lucifer, in his destined vessel that can bring out his true power, heavy punches a human more than ten times, consecutively, and was surprised the human was still alive and conscious.

You do know that Lucifer was not trying to kill Dean there right? He was trying to make him feel as much pain as possible. If you instantly kill someone with a single hit, they aren't going to suffer.

Thor strike the stone giant once.

Again, Thor was trying to kill, Lucifer wasn't.

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9dragons

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#81  Edited By 9dragons

@rr79:

Darkness power

The darkness had no need to consume souls for power by the time of the episodes, "We Happy Few" and "Alpha and Omega".. She was looking for "god". She consumed Donatello Redfield's soul because she wanted to know "god's" whereabouts and Donatello refused to divulge "god's" location, through his soul she found out "god" was in Kansas. Afterwards, she was attacked by a witch spell, smoke demon attack, Lucifer back stab.

Darkness's history

Her only on screen world destruction attempt , after she surprise attacked "god", "Amara states that he's not dead, but dying, for she wants him to witness to destruction of everything he created", according to the episode "We happy few." The following episode depict the sun dying. They mentioned she had previously destroyed worlds, but never shown in the detail the process, there are many possible ways to destroy worlds, unleash underlings, pollute the world, destroy the ozone, employing artifacts, etc, numerous possibilities.

Alternate world

Demon exists in the alternate world, demons that followed Lucifer to war, demons that angel warriors and bobby singer still patrolled for, demons that knew Lucifer was a real person, a knowledge that strengthen angels as previously mention by pagan monster gods, Castiel and angels in heaven. Those were in lore topics mention more than once in the show.

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Micheal literally followed his father's prophecy in the alternate world, waged a war against Lucifer and failed to deliver the "promise paradise". Angels followed orders and prophecy, it never had anything to do with their desire to "fix" anything, but there desire to follow orders and the orders were to "fix" the world after the war. Your head canon might've omitted fact that Micheal was one of the most loyal angels created by his father, who indeed followed the prophecy in the alternate world, at least to his limits.

Lucifer's Vessels

Lucifer burned out nearly all his vessels, save for Sam and Castiel. His only restored vessel was nick, and he didn't do it under his own power, crowly's demons had found and repair his vessel for him. Please cite the episode Lucifer's vessel hand been destroyed and he instantly reforms it, to my knowledge there was no event of that in the show.

Castiel's vessel

When Castiel was destroy, Castiel confirmed that he was brought back by a powerful entity for unknown reasons, likely "god". He never said he returned with his vessel under his own power.

Gabriel and Sam

Gabriel's pocket dimensions are small in space, around a street or two, fill with scripted people and events, constituting more of an illusion than an actual dimension and Gabriel is always among the illusion. If Thor was in the same scenario, one all out hammer strike to the ground would collapse the illusion and destroy Gabriel's vessel. In the real world, his illusions have nearly always been collapsed by humans. Note, Lucifer never showed the ability to create illusions like Gabriel.

The the episode mystery spot, in the real world, Sam and Dean rested at a motel room for the night when Gabriel trapped Sam in a dream. When the dream ended, Sam awoke the next morning in real time. and Dean had no idea why Sam suddenly hugged him because Sam entire experience was a dream. Note, Sam was mentally vulnerable because he was worried about Dean, Dean was forced to make a demon deal to resurrect Sam from death in exchange for his soul.

In this battle both opponents are awake, so Gabriel and Sam's situation has no bearing.

Mary v.s. Lucifer

Lucifer was beat to the point he was unable to hold his weapon, stand properly and bled from his mouth. Apparently, you are downplaying his beat down and reaction.

Dean v.s Lucifer

No Caption Provided

Lucifer confused that Dean, a human, was still alive and conscious after ten consecutive heavy blows. This is not the face of a person in control.

Lucifer lacks physical feats on par with Thor

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Micheal defeated Lucifer by physically twisting his arm. Lucifer responded, "what are you going to do ... kill me?".

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Thor physically destroys the Bi Frost, capable of destroying worlds if left open.

What physical feats did Lucifer have on screen that rivals Thor's?

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EjorpSnruteR

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Why is physical feats important to beings that have hax like time manipulation and dimension manipulation?

Simple fact, Thor is getting a one-way trip to la la land (all expense paid by Lucifer)

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Marishtar

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Minecraftmaster11

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How was this ever even a debate? Lucifer, like all the archangels, is on a completely different tier. The most Thor could ever do is destroy his vessel, but that's not enough. Lucifer would just reform it or find a different one. Whereas Thor can be put down in a split second via soul-killing finger snap.

To be honest, I'd even argue that a regular angel like Castiel could/would beat Thor. (I'll probably be opening one hell of a can of worms with that one...)

Supernatural may not have the big budget blockbuster visuals or the fancy special effects during fights, but its actual power levels (for the most part) are leagues above what the live-action comic book genre (MCU, DCEU, Arrowverse, etc.) has right now. It's that simple.

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morpheus_

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#85 morpheus_  Moderator

- Person bumps a thread, proclaims it a mismatch.

- Admits character A can destroy character B's body, even though he professes character B is on a different tier.

- Character B would then need to go find a new body, which is a defeat for the purposes of the thread.

Congratulations, you just outdebated yourself.

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Minecraftmaster11

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@morpheus_: All it says is "vic by any mean", which is admittedly vague. I personally thought it was clear that the intention of the OP is a fight to the death. Heads up, destroying Lucifer's vessel does not kill him...

Though you may have seen it differently, which I can't really say is right or wrong due to the vagueness of the OP.

EDIT: Also, you could at least have the decency to tag the person you're referring to. Come on, dude.

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Laurus

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#87  Edited By Laurus

Thor.

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AdamAnouer

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You know it's funny going back to this thread how much misinformation there is regarding Lucifer.

First thing's first Lucifer did not "cause calamities all over the planet" by himself. Those calamities were caused by the 4 Horseman of the apocalypse of whom the strongest, Death required a spell to be bound. Also Lucifer's reality warping powers are being completely over blown as he is never shown to use this ability and certainly not on a scale comparable to his Brother Gabriel who trapped Sam, Dean and Castiel on numerous occasions in various time loops. Gabriel even states the reason he learned this ability was so that he didn't have to deal with his brothers which would imply it's not something Archangels can naturally do and that he did in fact learn it from SPN's version of Loki.

That being said Lucifer's strength and telekentic ability is vastly impressive as he managed to ROFLSTOMP the Pegan Gods in the supernatural universe with remarkable ease. IMO he's more comparable to Strange than to Thor because if Thor fought Luci I doubt Luci could kill Thor.

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Bodhbh

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Apples and oranges. Thor wins via effects budget. Lucy wins on implied power and position in the universal hierarchy (and then tbh the Supernatural universe does seem very small compared to Marvel).

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RampageTheFirst

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Lucifer curbstomps.

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Supermanthor

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Lol

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el-kun

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Based on actual feats go with Thor its a mismatch, but going on statements and implied power Lucifer destroys

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mega6382

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Thor has no way of actually killing lucifer. He can at best injure his vessel, but he can regenerate quite quickly from such attacks. So, in the end Lucifer would win, unless its a stalemate(doubt it).

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@mega6382: There is a difference between injuring a host and entirely destroying it.

Supernatural isn't good for these arguments because no characters have good feats. It basically turns into "This supposedly powerful guy beat up this supposedly powerful guy". Either they snap you into ash and give you the clap or they get stabbed in the butt by an angel blade and die.

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#95  Edited By Tarhimun

I know this thread is old but damn, so much wrong in here... BUT as inconsistant the Supernatural-verse can be it's very tricky to evaluate the power of beings seen in the show. Every creatures in the show are 99% pictured by actors and due to a lack of FX they're limited to what actors can do on scene. That's why most of the "feats" are from whats characters says more than actual visual on screen proof.

First thing first. Yes Chuck (God for thoses who're unfamiliar with the show) created worlds and that actually means UniverseS. In season 12 we learn that there is a more than one universe and Jack opened a rift between them. In season 14 it appear that more than some universes but actually a Multiverse (Chucks respond to Sam on how many universes he created which Chuck answer that "lost count" so if God himself lost count, we can bet it's a tremendous amount of universes...), so yeah chuck created a multiverse and Amara (The Darkness) was about to destroy all of it so please stop comparing her to Thor, even more Thor from the MCU.... they're on a completely different scale... Also we could suppose that Chuck created the Marvel Multiverse, we have no idea, he could be OAA after all, I mean imagine it, that would make Sam, Dean and Castiel the most important humans in all the multiverse xD

Lucifer (from the show verse) is not multiversal (or omniversal ? dunno) being like his DC counterpart, there is actually an unknown numbers of Archangels across the multiverse.

Despite on screen "feats" tend to show Lucifer is far more powerful than he appears. He totally negated a speedsters (Mercury who's way too fast to be seen when he use his speed) and break his neck without touching him and with very ease. After that he rampage multiples pagan gods (including Odin himself) without breaking a sweat in a severely damaged body which is not his true vessel (Sam Winchester who's for fun fact the same dude in a episode to be worthy of Mjolnir) so he's clearly not at full power. And thoses pagan gods are real deals, they just dont have feats because Luci stomps them all in seconds, so here's the physical strenght feats we could say.

Something that bothering me : Lucifer does not depend on "worshipping", as any archangels or even angels, to fuel their power, I dunno where you people bring that shit... And also high tier pagan gods don't really need it too, it was only stated that some low tier pagan gods became weaks from a lack of sacrifices, that's it.

As for speed and reaction time it's just inconsistency of the show that make it very hard to evaluate. Castiel for example has shown extraordinary speeds feats when he "searched" a whole city in 2 seconds at some point and another time bringing artifacts from around the world almost instantly. And as I said, Lucy can negate Mercury speed so there's that. On the other hand they seems unbelievably slow fighting "humans" (well Sam and Dean have plot armor anyway so) so I'll follow the comic vine logic and take the highest feat there is.

What about his defensive feats ? He took a headshot from the colt (can kill anything in the universe beside 5 primordial beings, including him) and it barely stunned him a few seconds. Top tier witchcraft (like book of the damned level) can affect him and slow him down or banish him in some point but nothing seems to really hurt him and even less kill him).

What else ?

  • He can time travel pretty easily (himself or aport someone else) and can detect being whose not from his timeline
  • He has advanced reality warping skills (at least equal to Gabriel maybe even more)
  • He has advanced telepathy and can access other beings's dreams
  • He can fully heal his vessel if needed but in his true vessel he's said to be almost invulnerable so he won't need to here
  • He can become totally invisible (Castiel did it in season 6 so we can suggest an Archangel could do it too)
  • As shown in season 11 and 12, he has a vast arsenal of very powerful mystical weapons (one that could hurt a weakened Amara) that he hidden in numerous crypts on earth.
  • He can teleport (flying skill of all angels) everywhere he wants in the universe and ALSO teleport to him lesser beings
  • He can manipulate energy like fire or ice at will (he put on fire a bush on earth while being in the cage in season 11 and in season 5 he blow ice and explain he's not burning hot like poeple tend to believe while drawing a pitchfork) and also lighting (Raphael did it with ease and since his big brother The Devil himself is much more powerful and smart we could assume he can do it too) but VS Thor dunno if lighting would be useful.
  • His true form cannot be killed by any means except by an Archangel blade or probably the first blade held by someone with the mark of cain (the first curse) and very primordial being like Death, Amara, God and probably the cosmic Entity from the empty or a stronger Archangel like Michael or a stronger being/weapons from an alternate universe.
  • He can have access to a Hand of God, an artifact touched by God himself and possessing a fraction of his power making thoses the most powerful artifacts out there
  • He seems to have some sort of little omniscient sight (he knows what happens on earth while being in the cage)
  • The list could go on and on.... we still don't know the full extent of his powers since he predated the universe (dunno about the multiverse but I doubt it)

Also he has a higly vast knowledge of the universe law like every Archangels and can manipulate at a sub-atomic level at will as said by Castiel when he was killed by Lucy at the end of season 5.

Now I hope you really kidding when you put a high tier Celestial being with many powers and knowledge at his disposal on par with Thor from the MCU.... Lucy snap his fingers, job's done, period.

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Serosm

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#97  Edited By Serosm

Lucifer by statements. And Lucifer does not depend on worshipping, it's proofless bullshit. His powers depend only on the vessel (tho he could fight the Darkness before the first people came in existence).

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KALADAR007

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Lucifer

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NameNotFound

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Easily Lucifer.

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Divyansh13

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Lucifer ez