Lt. Worf vs. Chewbacca

"And Worf is substatially stronger than a normal human as well.  Jem Hadar are not exactly difficult opponents.  Yes they are strong and dedicated and willing to die, but they have relatively little in the way of experience being that they are barely half a decade old when they begin serving in the active military.  Worf's redundant body systems will help him survivel longer than Chewie would expect but if Worf is still standing Chewie is just going to hit him again, or break another limb.  Worf is not a good enough martial artist to deal with Chewbacca's rather monstrous strength and reach.  "

How exactly am I a fanboy?  All I've done is argue who I think will win.
 
Chewbacca's fighting prowess?
When he was younger he made many trips to the Shadowlands of Kashyyk.  The Shadowlands are the parts of the jungle under the canopy where most of the Wookie population lives.  They are populated by what we would call monsters.  Huge creatures capable of devouring a Wookie whole.  Upon repeated trips it's safe to assume that Chewie had to fight his way out of many situations or get eaten. 
Chewbacca is also over 100 years old much of which has been spent fighting or training.  This beats Worf's about 30 years by quite a lot.
In the Battle of Kashyyk during the Clone wars Chewbacca served on the front lines and as a planner and tactician and was instrumental in the Wookie success against the CIS.
Chewie has many years of training under the Noghri bodyguards.  While formerly assassins the Noghri bodyguards underwent different training that taught them how to protect the people they were guarding.  Due to the similarities between Wookie culture and Noghri culture and the fact that they were all guarding the same people (Leia Organa Solo and her children) the Noghri decided to teach Chewbacca their martial art which is based upon the assassin's art.  As the Noghri were some of the most successful assassins in the galaxy and Palpatine's personal assassins their skill was incredible.  Chewie learned enough of their style of fighting to be able to use it effectively in combat.  This style is known to incorporate nerve strikes, joint locks, joint manipulation, and pressure point use. 
The ability to beat a Wookie in single hand to hand combat is considered an unbelievable boast in the Star Wars universe.  The reason for this is because Wookies are so strong that closing with them or grappling with them is suicide because they can literally squeeze you to death and because they have about a foot (if not more) in reach on their opponent which means that it is nearly impossible to effectively strike any vulnerable target on the wookie's body.  
Chewbacca is skilled as using his strength and reach and know how to use techniques that require neither (the noghri training) and grappling would be near to instant death for the opponent.  Worf is not agile enough to get in and out before Chewie either grabs him or hits him, and every hit of Chewie's that lands is going to break bones.

" @rabidrage said:

" Well, skill doesn't automatically trump strength in 10 out of 10 scenarios.  If that were the case, Iron Fist would be able to beat up Superman.  But in this case, with the two of them being close, Worf's martial arts skills will help him avoid getting his arms ripped off.  It's called grabbing your opponent's arm when he reaches for you and throwing him, or kicking him, or even breaking said arm.  I love how we assume that Chewy's amputation maneuver is just like a special move in a video game, where the game makes it impossible to block... "

But how do we know Chewy isnt that skilled with fighting though ? I mean Star Wars goes deeper than just the films... the Expanded Universe may have info on Chewy in action "

" @King Saturn said:

" @rabidrage said:

" Well, skill doesn't automatically trump strength in 10 out of 10 scenarios.  If that were the case, Iron Fist would be able to beat up Superman.  But in this case, with the two of them being close, Worf's martial arts skills will help him avoid getting his arms ripped off.  It's called grabbing your opponent's arm when he reaches for you and throwing him, or kicking him, or even breaking said arm.  I love how we assume that Chewy's amputation maneuver is just like a special move in a video game, where the game makes it impossible to block... "

But how do we know Chewy isnt that skilled with fighting though ? I mean Star Wars goes deeper than just the films... the Expanded Universe may have info on Chewy in action "

Actually, it does and in one of the books an imperial tried soldier almost killed Chewie in a fist fight.  I say Worf wins this.  Chewie is a great piolt, engineer and bowcaster.  Worf has him in Hand to hand and Melee combat. "

@ Tevnoba, when and who?

Could someone please post an example of these elite combat skills that Worf is supposed to have?  I can't remember him doing anything more than some basic self-defense maneuvers and perhaps a little Judo.  That's hardly evidence of him being anything special in the combat department.  Plus, he's bloodlusted in this scenario, and bloodlusted Klingons aren't know for their finesse.  Torres proved that when she was in the throes of the Pon-Farr in that one episode of Voyager.

"Could someone please post an example of these elite combat skills that Worf is supposed to have?  I can't remember him doing anything more than some basic self-defense maneuvers and perhaps a little Judo.  That's hardly evidence of him being anything special in the combat department.  Plus, he's bloodlusted in this scenario, and bloodlusted Klingons aren't know for their finesse.  Torres prooved that when she was in the throes of the Pon-Farr in that one episode of Voyager. "

You really do not know what you are talking about Klingons do not go through Pon-Farr that is for Vulcans. Try watching some Star Trek.    

Actually if you read here and scroll down to the 2373 part of her history you will see that she was in fact affected by Pon-Farr.

" @Alexander Anderson said:

"Could someone please post an example of these elite combat skills that Worf is supposed to have?  I can't remember him doing anything more than some basic self-defense maneuvers and perhaps a little Judo.  That's hardly evidence of him being anything special in the combat department.  Plus, he's bloodlusted in this scenario, and bloodlusted Klingons aren't know for their finesse.  Torres prooved that when she was in the throes of the Pon-Farr in that one episode of Voyager. "

You really do not know what you are talking about Klingons do not go through Pon-Farr that is for Vulcans. Try watching some Star Trek.    

"

Chewy, I know nothing about Worf...

Worf. Worf has spare organs is stronger, faster, more agile and would eat a wookie

Chewy

" It isnt like worf has spiderman agility here guys. He is going to duck a few shots, and then get caught by some shots. Klingons arent finesse fighters, they are like gladiators. Charge and bludgeon.  Well, in this case, he's charging a bigger, stronger version of himself, but with teeth.  800 pounds to 2 tons, as was said earlier. This may not be the actual numbers we are dealing with, but if it is anywhere close just think about that for a minute. That is less than a quarter as strong as his opponent. that also means that Chewy's body is buillt to deal with two ton pressures, while Wrof's is built to deal with 800 pound pressures.  Take that ratio down in numbers we are more familiar with. In this scenario, if Chewy can throw a 100 pound punch, then worf throws a 20 pound punch. That is completely pathetic. he cannot hurt Chewy. He cannot put him in any joint locks, he probably couldnt choke him out if Chewy let him climb onto his back.    This kind of strength advantage equates to a stomp.Chewy wins. "

I have to say chewie, he is stronger and from his battle experiance he may know martial arts aswell, as much as i like worf

And of course there are Chewie's claws to consider...
 
And the fact that he killed an imperial officer with a single blow in ANH.
 
And the fact that he's canonically strong enough to rip people's arms out of their sockets, as per The Courtship of Princess Leia.
 
Chewie is strong as hell.  He throws around humans like rag dolls with one hand.  He's like a bear or a gorilla, only highly intelligent and with 200 years of experience.

I agree with Mr. Hooligan.  Chewbacca's enhanced strength comes with enhanced durability.  If someone does have a source that has Chewie's or Worf's strength I would love to see them.  800 lbs sounds right for Worf but I'm not sure if 2 tons is right for Chewie.  Probably a little less than that but between 1 and 2 tons.
Still though Worf is not a talented enough martial artist nor is he going to be fighting intelligently if bloodlusted and Chewie would rip him to pieces.

I  agree that Worf is not a finesse fighter at all.  He's more like a big burly gladiator type.  This means that he relies more on strength and ferocity than speed and dexterity.  If this is the case when he goes against Chewie, then he's in trouble because Chewie is bigger, stronger, and has a longer limb than him.  Therefore, after a long fight, I see Chewie edging him out.  Simple as that.  No need to examine, half to death, every little history and martial arts detail about these two.

" @sevennames27 said:

" @Alexander Anderson said:

"Could someone please post an example of these elite combat skills that Worf is supposed to have?  I can't remember him doing anything more than some basic self-defense maneuvers and perhaps a little Judo.  That's hardly evidence of him being anything special in the combat department.  Plus, he's bloodlusted in this scenario, and bloodlusted Klingons aren't know for their finesse.  Torres prooved that when she was in the throes of the Pon-Farr in that one episode of Voyager. "

You really do not know what you are talking about Klingons do not go through Pon-Farr that is for Vulcans. Try watching some Star Trek.    

"

B'Elanna going through the Pon-Farr is the entire crux of the Voyager episode "Blood Fever", genius.  That it was initiated by a Vulcan is irrelevant to the material point, which is that it put her into a bloodlusted state and thus gave us a look at how a bloodlusted Klingon fights.    And since you completely missed the point of the episode I referenced, it looks like you're the one who needs to watch some Star Trek, maybe with your eyes open this time around. "

B'Elanna is only half Klingon (Thus she is only half as strong/durable), and she is not even slightly trained in the Klingon martial arts, or how to deal with her Klingon side.

So Worf, who's only extended exposure to Klingon life has been during the Dominion War and then as ambassador to the Klingon Empire, know how to deal with his 'klingon' than B'Elanna Torres who not only grew up on Qo'nos but went to school in a Klingon monastery?  That doesn't seem to add up.  I will give that Worf is better trained in Klingon Martial arts but I'm fairly certain that B'Elanna would have some rudimentary training.  And regardless we have seen many other Klingons thrown into rages where they do not fight with the least bit of intelligence.  How is Worf going to take on an opponent who is massively stronger than he is if he's not thinking clearly.

Worf got owned by an over grown fly.
 
Chewy would rip his arms off.

"So Worf, who's only extended exposure to Klingon life has been during the Dominion War and then as ambassador to the Klingon Empire, know how to deal with his 'klingon' than B'Elanna Torres who not only grew up on Qo'nos but went to school in a Klingon monastery?  That doesn't seem to add up.  I will give that Worf is better trained in Klingon Martial arts but I'm fairly certain that B'Elanna would have some rudimentary training.  And regardless we have seen many other Klingons thrown into rages where they do not fight with the least bit of intelligence.  How is Worf going to take on an opponent who is massively stronger than he is if he's not thinking clearly. "

This fight is more like Captain (Worf) vs. Bane (Chewy). Do you think Bane is massively stronger than Captain ?    

I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.
Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.  
A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.  
Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight.

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Chewie rips wolfs arms off and beats him to death with um

"@BardofWonder said:

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Blindness "

"@sevennames27 said:

"@BardofWonder said:

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Blindness "

Fanboy .. "

Pot calling the kettle black.

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@BardofWonder said:

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Blindness "

Fanboy .. "

Pot calling the kettle black.

"

This fight is more like Captain (Worf) vs. Bane (Chewy). Do you think Bane is massively stronger than Captain ? 
and then 
Blindness   
 
You sure proved your point. How about you try some proff of why Worf wins ?  
 Does he have more strength? NO. Battle experience ? No. Agility. No or they are equal. So how exactly is he winning ? 
 
So in the end the only thing i can think off is you are a fanboy. I love ST to but in a fight that i think some1 from ST can win i try to bring an argument of why.

"@sevennames27 said:

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@BardofWonder said:

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Blindness "

Fanboy .. "

Pot calling the kettle black.

"

With an arguments like: 

This fight is more like Captain (Worf) vs. Bane (Chewy). Do you think Bane is massively stronger than Captain ? 
and then 
Blindness   
 
You sure proved your point. How about you try some proff of why Worf wins ?  
 Does he have more strength? NO. Battle experience ? No. Agility. No or they are equal. So how exactly is he winning ? 
 
So in the end the only thing i can think off is you are a fanboy. I love ST to but in a fight that i think some1 from ST can win i try to bring an argument of why.

"

You can say all you want about Chewy but he did not do anything real impressive in the movies, or any of the cannon games.

Yes but unfortunately almost everything is canon is Star Wars whereas only the TV shows, the animated series, and the Movies are canon for Star Trek. 

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@Xan said:

"@sevennames27 said:

"@BardofWonder said:

"I've told you before this fight is nothing like Cap vs Bane.  First of all Cap's biggest advantage in that fight is his agility, he dances circles Bane, I don't know something like a Waltz.  Worf has nowhere near this level of agility and I would argue that Chewie is more agile than Worf is.  Second, Cap is very nearly the best martial artist on his planet let alone his universe.  Worf isn't exactly the same caliber here, he won 1 tournament as a youngster, and since then most of his fighting has been honor duels against politicians.  True he fought in the Dominion War but not a whole lot of that was hand to hand.  Don't get me wrong he's a good martial artist he's just not in Cap's league.Honestly I don't know how high Bane's strength can go with Venom, enlighten me.   A few last points.  Chewie is over 200 years old, the first half of which he, like many young and relatively stupid wookies, ventured into the shadowlands of Kashyyk.  Also the Wookies have a system of Honor Duels very similar to Klingon traditions.  In more than 100 years on Kashyyk it's safe to assume he's fought in more of them than Worf has in his 40 years.   Chewie is at the very least twice as strong as Worf if not four or eight times as strong.  This is a huge strength differential.  Also Chewie is very skilled when it comes to fighting and is much more agile than Worf is.  I just don't see how Worf wins this fight. "

Blindness "

Fanboy .. "

Pot calling the kettle black.

"

With an arguments like: 

This fight is more like Captain (Worf) vs. Bane (Chewy). Do you think Bane is massively stronger than Captain ? 
and then 
Blindness   
 
You sure proved your point. How about you try some proff of why Worf wins ?  
 Does he have more strength? NO. Battle experience ? No. Agility. No or they are equal. So how exactly is he winning ? 
 
So in the end the only thing i can think off is you are a fanboy. I love ST to but in a fight that i think some1 from ST can win i try to bring an argument of why.

"

You can say all you want about Chewy but he did not do anything real impressive in the movies, or any of the cannon games.

"

"Yes but unfortunately almost everything is canon is Star Wars whereas only the TV shows, the animated series, and the Movies are canon for Star Trek.  "

Can we just agree to disagree?

Certainly, I was just trying to debate and trying to get the same in return.

"Certainly, I was just trying to debate and trying to get the same in return. "

" Klingons have intensive martial arts, and Worf has been shown to be quite the expert.  Not to mention his Starfleet training. "

@ Sevennames, indeed I do, I am a very dedicated casual player, been playing for about 10 years.
 
@TruePwnge:  First:  This is not the Federation vs the Wookies, this is Worf versus Chewbacca.  Second:  What personal Shields are you talking about?  There is only one instance of personal shields in Star Trek that I know of, and that is when the Hunters Boarded DS9 and instigated a shootout while have shields that absorbed Phaser shots.  Third:  Did you bother to read the arguments above or did you just post your opinion without reading any of the debate?

Do they use weapons? Worf has a phaser and Chewie has a blaster rifle. I'd say Chewie, plus I would agree that Wookies are stronger than Klingons.

" @Alexander Anderson said:

" @sevennames27 said:

" @Alexander Anderson said:

"Could someone please post an example of these elite combat skills that Worf is supposed to have?  I can't remember him doing anything more than some basic self-defense maneuvers and perhaps a little Judo.  That's hardly evidence of him being anything special in the combat department.  Plus, he's bloodlusted in this scenario, and bloodlusted Klingons aren't know for their finesse.  Torres prooved that when she was in the throes of the Pon-Farr in that one episode of Voyager. "

You really do not know what you are talking about Klingons do not go through Pon-Farr that is for Vulcans. Try watching some Star Trek.    

"

B'Elanna going through the Pon-Farr is the entire crux of the Voyager episode "Blood Fever", genius.  That it was initiated by a Vulcan is irrelevant to the material point, which is that it put her into a bloodlusted state and thus gave us a look at how a bloodlusted Klingon fights.    And since you completely missed the point of the episode I referenced, it looks like you're the one who needs to watch some Star Trek, maybe with your eyes open this time around. "

B'Elanna is only half Klingon (Thus she is only half as strong/durable), and she is not even slightly trained in the Klingon martial arts, or how to deal with her Klingon side.

"

I got my hair caught in the zipper of my jacket about a month ago and that really hurt, so I imagine if Worf grabs some Wookie hair and holds on he might win.