Avatar image for thoromdil
#1 Posted by Thoromdil (1442 posts) - - Show Bio

Who will win in this epic 4 vs 4?

Team Lord of the Rings:

- Gandalf the White (composite, with full eq and can use his unbound form) - the most powerful Istari

No Caption Provided

- Galadriel, the Lady of Light (composite, can use her ring of power to full potential) - the most powerful elf

No Caption Provided

- Sauron the Abhorred (composite, physical form with full power of the One Ring) - the most powerful maiar

No Caption Provided

- Talion - the most powerful mortal

No Caption Provided

Team Star Wars:

- Darth Sidious - In his prime (but his original body, not his cloned version), composite. - the most powerful Sith Lord.

No Caption Provided

Grandmaster Luke Skywalker (EU feats, in his prime) - the most powerful jedi

No Caption Provided

Mother Talzin - physical form and in her prime - the most powerful force sorcerer

No Caption Provided

General Grievous - in his prime, composite version. - the most powerful non force sensitive.

No Caption Provided

Rules:

No planet busting, no BFR, no PIS.

All bloodlusted. No holding back.

Perfect teamwork.

Speed equalized.

Avatar image for turr
#2 Edited by Turr (785 posts) - - Show Bio

Gandalf vs Luke - Gandalf wins. Luke is badass but Unbound Gandalf is a god and his magic and hax will be more then Luke can handle.

Sidious vs Sauron - Sidious. Sauron should be insanely powerful but he lacks feats in his prime. Throwing people around and shapeshifting will not be enough to get through composite Sidious.

Mother Talzin vs Galadriel - Galadriel ftw. Epic fight of magic but Galadriel is just way too powerful on completely different scale. Talzin mostly wins via prep and rituals, she gets her ass kicked in direct confrontations.

Grievous vs Talion - Grievous wins. Talion is a match for him skill wise but Grievous has the far superior weapon here. Talion can't do much damage from distance and up close he will get cut to shreds by Grievouses lightsaber whirlwinds.

The remaining 2 vs 2 is Sidious and Grievous vs Galadriel and Gandalf. LotR team will win this due to Grievous being a weak link. Galadriel and Gandalf delete him with a single spell and then overwhelm Sidious together.

Avatar image for americanspeeddemon
#3 Posted by americanspeeddemon (6293 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

Avatar image for jt_gh
#4 Edited by jt_gh (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

Most LoTR people have no feats without their restrictions so, by default, Star Wars wins.

Avatar image for killerwasp
#5 Posted by Killerwasp (16796 posts) - - Show Bio

@turr: you do know grandmaster Luke is better than darth sidious right?

Star Wars all rounds besides maybe talion due to talions have super natural abilities

Avatar image for turr
#6 Posted by Turr (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@turr: you do know grandmaster Luke is better than darth sidious right?

Yeah. Did I say at any point that he is not? All I said is that Sidious should win against Sauron because Sauron is almost featless and his power is only implied, but never showed which is bad for battles like these. But Gandalf is a powerhouse with loads of hax Luke just can't respond to, so he should win without too much trouble. For the record, yes I think Gandalf would beat Sidious too.

Star Wars all rounds besides maybe talion due to talions have super natural abilities

Well all of LotR characters here have supernatural abilities, Talion really is by far the weakest. In fact, Gandalf and Galadriel have such ridiculous hax they can probably duo the entire battle.

Avatar image for turr
#7 Edited by Turr (785 posts) - - Show Bio

@jt_gh said:

Most LoTR people have no feats without their restrictions so, by default, Star Wars wins.

well that's just not true at all. I mean in the books they have loads of feats, maybe excluding Sauron who only has a few. In the movies you could find plenty if you'd look for them too.

Avatar image for deactivated-5b02bbfb13940
#8 Posted by deactivated-5b02bbfb13940 (113 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't see GM Luke dying here - Team Star Wars should win.

Avatar image for nelomaxwell
#9 Posted by Nelomaxwell (14067 posts) - - Show Bio

Good match ups

Avatar image for i_like_swords
#10 Posted by i_like_swords (25449 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats for the LotR team?

Talion gets absolutely butchered by Grievous though.

Avatar image for turr
#11 Posted by Turr (785 posts) - - Show Bio

Feats for the LotR team?

Unbound Gandalf - As a maiar (spirit) of fire he has undead, intangible spirit body, fire element control and projection (further buffed by his fire ring of power) and vast magical powers of all kinds, which include telepathy, telekinesis, energy projection, energy shields and much more. Even with his restricted "White" form he has enough power to dominate minds of others, even very powerful Wizards with just a word (Saruman for example coundn't resist following the orders of his voice) He was able to disarm fellowship of the ring without any words or gestures, freezing them in place and making them drop their weapons and he destroyed Sarumans wand by calling it broken. His magic, basically, does whatever he says or wants done, to some extent. And even when severely restricted in his "Grey" form he was able to conjure fireballs (fellowship vs shadow wargs, LotR) and lightning bolts (goblin encounter, Hobbit), powerful enough to electrocute or burn to a crisp numerous targets in a split second. He also can not be tired and despite having a body of old man he is more physically capable then most fighters in their prime. And we're talking about a bound Gandalf. Unbound Gandalf is much more powerful then this, his most notable increase in power comes from the fact he has no body that puts limitations on him. Without it he has no body to cut with a lightsaber or zap with a lightning, he is basically a diety that controls everythinga round him with commands and spells.

Galadriel - Probably the most powerful non-god being in Middle Earth ever, Galadriel was a student of Meliana (powerful maiar spirit) and is so old she even remembers the beggining of time. Her powers were never very clear, but she has powerful telepathy and various defensive and offensive magic capabilities. Her magical shields are so powerful she could actually protect even a whole country from entire armies for thousands of years. Her offensive powers are nicely displayed in the gif from this battle - she is able to desintegrate an enemy with a gesture, and the shockwave from her single, short spell goes all the way to far horizon. Her ring of power vastly increases her magical powers too, mostly her defensive powers like barriers, shields etc.

Sauron - Since he is stripped from his power for majority of Lord of the Rings and is mostly a sidekick of Morgoth in Silmarillion he doesn't have too many feats, but he is supposedly more powerful then even Galadriel or Gandalf, especially in his prime, wielding the One Ring. Since he is a spirit of fire from nature, much like Balrogs or Gandalf, his powers most likely include fire control and projection, telepathy so powerful he was able to re-shape the abilities of Palantirs to do what he wants, ability to cast curses and spells of many, many kinds (Sauron cursed the 9 riders for example, or the Silent Watchers) but also unreal super-strength (as seen in gif, he is able to basically swipe armies like leafs with a broom) But yeah, he also is kinda featless and most of his spells or abilities we hear about or see their effects rather then witness him perform.

Talion gets absolutely butchered by Grievous though.

well, agreed. Talion is by far the weak link here, but so is Grievous who can be popped by a fingerflick of any of the guys above.

Avatar image for i_like_swords
#12 Posted by i_like_swords (25449 posts) - - Show Bio

@turr:

As a maiar (spirit) of fire he has undead, intangible spirit body, fire element control and projection (further buffed by his fire ring of power) and vast magical powers of all kinds, which include telepathy, telekinesis, energy projection, energy shields and much more.

Are you aware Luke, Sidious and Talzin have all of those powers, and are in no way phased by any of them? Aside from the spirit body (they have ways to attack spirits too, for the record).

Even with his restricted "White" form he has enough power to dominate minds of others, even very powerful Wizards with just a word (Saruman for example coundn't resist following the orders of his voice)

Er, dominating the minds of strong willed individuals is a feat I'd expect from someone who doesn't even register to Sidious or Luke.

He was able to disarm fellowship of the ring without any words or gestures, freezing them in place and making them drop their weapons

Exar Kun froze over 100,000 people in stasis by casting a spell, casually, and then maintained the stasis while fighting a Jedi. And he's nowhere near Sidious or Luke.

and he destroyed Sarumans wand by calling it broken. His magic, basically, does whatever he says or wants done, to some extent.

That's a no-limits fallacy. And nothing you've mentioned is moderately impressive to Luke or Sidious. Just being honest.

And even when severely restricted in his "Grey" form he was able to conjure fireballs (fellowship vs shadow wargs, LotR) and lightning bolts (goblin encounter, Hobbit), powerful enough to electrocute or burn to a crisp numerous targets in a split second.

Something Darth Bane, who is hilariously weaker than Sidious and Luke, can do? Again, why do you think this stuff is impressive?

He also can not be tired and despite having a body of old man he is more physically capable then most fighters in their prime.

Not sure if you're aware, but Force users who have nowhere near the same stamina as Sidious or Luke can fight for hours, days, weeks and even months with little to no rest, including 80 year olds like Dooku. As part of Sidious' training he spent hours underdoing physical hardship and torture at a time, or fighting entire armies for hours with nothing but a non-lethal pike. This is rudimentary stuff.

And we're talking about a bound Gandalf. Unbound Gandalf is much more powerful then this, his most notable increase in power comes from the fact he has no body that puts limitations on him. Without it he has no body to cut with a lightsaber or zap with a lightning, he is basically a diety that controls everythinga round him with commands and spells.

Saying he is a deity with no limits, is a no limits fallacy. Sidious and Luke have every single power you have mentioned, and far, far, far more impressive feats than anything you have mentioned. People infinitely beneath them have more impressive feats. I'm not sure where you got the impression that Gandalf is a god compared to them, when really spirits with supernatural powers are extremely common in Star Wars; that's how one could describe most of the ancient Sith, who are like ants to Sidious.

Probably the most powerful non-god being in Middle Earth ever, Galadriel was a student of Meliana (powerful maiar spirit) and is so old she even remembers the beggining of time. Her powers were never very clear, but she has powerful telepathy and various defensive and offensive magic capabilities. Her magical shields are so powerful she could actually protect even a whole country from entire armies for thousands of years. Her offensive powers are nicely displayed in the gif from this battle - she is able to desintegrate an enemy with a gesture, and the shockwave from her single, short spell goes all the way to far horizon. Her ring of power vastly increases her magical powers too, mostly her defensive powers like barriers, shields etc.

Again, none of this is remotely impressive, I'm sorry to say.

I mean, Sidious can raze the surface of entire planets, and consume entire fleets of star destroyers with worm holes. He can dominate the minds of millions, drain the life force of billions, reduce gigantic Sith monstrosities to ash with his lightning, and so on. I'm not seeing why he doesn't solo based on the feats you just described.

Avatar image for killerwasp
#13 Posted by Killerwasp (16796 posts) - - Show Bio

@turr: I'm pretty sure Luke does just fine

General grievous is a machine with no counters to the force other than his speed and agility. This was made clear in the series that he needed to use surprise, fear, and speed to beat a Jedi to of which he applied and did. Everything he didn't he generally took a loss or more damage then needed/necessary.

Avatar image for spicedrum
#14 Posted by SpicedRum (229 posts) - - Show Bio

Is 'because he's a god' acceptable reasoning here?

Avatar image for wut
#15 Posted by Wut (6462 posts) - - Show Bio
Avatar image for spicedrum
#16 Posted by SpicedRum (229 posts) - - Show Bio

@wut: Didn't think so seeing as what I'm reading for Gandalf seems incredibly lacklustre compared to Luke and Sidious

Avatar image for jt_gh
#17 Posted by jt_gh (1067 posts) - - Show Bio

@turr said:
@jt_gh said:

Most LoTR people have no feats without their restrictions so, by default, Star Wars wins.

well that's just not true at all. I mean in the books they have loads of feats, maybe excluding Sauron who only has a few. In the movies you could find plenty if you'd look for them too.

None of the people in this battle, have battle feats of note with these 'unrestricted' abilities. Gandalf most especially.

Avatar image for wut
#18 Posted by Wut (6462 posts) - - Show Bio

@spicedrum: Common issue with Lotr. It is more 'hype' then 'feats' when compared to many other fantasy works.