Loki vs T-1000

This battle pits MCU Loki against the T-1000 terminator (T2 and Genisys composite). Avengers gear for Loki and the fight is to the death/destruction. Battle takes place in Times Square.

Who wins and why?

MCU Callouts:

Hmmm

Avengers gear mean tessaract. So he vaporizes

Loki's fight to lose.

He engages, finds he can't win, uses illusion to escape, preps, comes back. Rinse and repeat until something works.

Loki could do it.

@risingbean: so running away, self BFR :)

T-1000 wins. Loki has no way to win.

@sirfizzwhizz: To be fair BFR isn't a condition.

I too was going to note Loki without prep has nothing he can do and self BFR's. But it's to the death, so I can see Loki scheming in a montage as nothing works until something does.

My money is on the casket of ancient winters freezing him solid, then a one way rainbow bridge flight to Jotunheim*.

*which isn't technically death or destruction, but indefinite BFR. A black hole grenade or being dipped in a volcano are alternate options, I guess.

@sirfizzwhizz: I don't know about that. Avengers gear implies he's got the scepter, which he used to pretty good affect, by disabling the quinjet. I think if he gets enough ranged hits off, he could reasonably overheat the T-1000 for the win.

@sergeant-rl3: I don't see why a few energy bolts will "overheat" the Liquid Metal when flaming gasoline fire that T-1000 was stuck in for a whole minuet did no damage at all.

Even dumped in molten steel in its hottest form took over 30 seconds to really take down T-1000.

Which timeline? It is important because the tech basis is pretty drastically different depending on whther we use the T2 trilogy timeline or the genisys timeline. I know it says composite feats...but the mimetic alloys are entirely different in design depending on which timeline we use.

Basically...it is almost impossible to use composite feats for the T1000 because even though they appear the same, the Genisys and T2 machines are POSSIBLY drastically different.

Not that it would matter though. The weapons that the T1000 can become shouldn't be capable of puncturing Loki at all.

Also, the T2 timeline now includes video games and novels, as it is technically eu now.

@sirfizzwhizz

Well gasoline burning and Loki's scepter aren't really equal in terms of energy output. Gasoline burning won't really melt most metals, while Loki's scepter has, and similar weapons have. It stands to reason that the scepter is > gasoline.

Additionally, It's not like the scepter has an ammunition capacity, Loki can keep using it till the cows come home, and the T-1000 doesn't handle big arms well. If a grenade launcher shot can completely disassociate him, I'm sure sustained energy bolts can keep him at bay, and from reforming.

As long Loki can keep bolting him, the T-1000 will continue to heat up, until such a point where he loses cohesion as he did in a vat of molten steel.

How is T1000 even gonna damage Loki?

@sergeant-rl3:

Well gasoline burning and Loki's scepter aren't really equal in terms of energy output. Gasoline burning won't really melt most metals, while Loki's scepter has, and similar weapons have. It stands to reason that the scepter is > gasoline.

The Scepter did not melt anything to me. Punctured like a projectile. Even Star Wars blasters do the same damage, and they do not melt or burn holes through people.

Im not seeing the "overheating" argument.

More so considering he lasted over 30 seconds before actually being destroyed in the heated liquid steel.

Additionally, It's not like the scepter has an ammunition capacity, Loki can keep using it till the cows come home, and the T-1000 doesn't handle big arms well. If a grenade launcher shot can completely disassociate him, I'm sure sustained energy bolts can keep him at bay, and from reforming.

So the argument is Loki, the arrogant guy who got picked up and smashed by Hulk mind ya, or failed to deal with Stark when he had the chance, will stand in one spot shooting blasts forever? Not seeing that really as a argument.

As long Loki can keep bolting him, the T-1000 will continue to heat up, until such a point where he loses cohesion as he did in a vat of molten steel.

Yeah, show me again Loki ever doing this, like ever?

@paytience:There is no difference in the T-1000 in T2 and T5. Only argument is the tracking ability and reactivating the T-800 in T5, but that is just something we never got a chance to see with the T2 version. There is no difference in their stats or abilities.

Not that it would matter though. The weapons that the T1000 can become shouldn't be capable of puncturing Loki at all.

Why not? Loki was afraid of Hawkeyes arrows, and Thor himself is damaged by knives from Loki.

T-1000 punctures Hyper Allow and has more strength than Captain America.

Above. He can harm Loki with his stabs or even stab Loki in the softer eye tissue, or choke him, or simply win by wailing on Loki over time with his multi ton strength.

A single blast from Iron man harmed Loki in avengers one, same blasts that humans survive all the time. Not seeing his durability tanking the blows of T-1000 over a few hours of a fight.

@sirfizzwhizz:

Why not? Loki was afraid of Hawkeyes arrows, and Thor himself is damaged by knives from Loki.

Loki wasn't afraid of hawkeye arrow at all, he only caught it to show off.

Yeah the knives damaged Thor because it's wielded by an asgardian(frost giant), made from asgadian steel.

Unless you think Thor who can be thrown through concrete unharmed can be damaged by normal knife.

A non warrior asgardian in AoS is able to bend a knife with his bare hands, normal weaponry can't hurt an asgardian/frost giant.

@sirfizzwhizz

Yeah, that would be out of character for Loki. Loki was never afraid of Hawkeye's arrows, not even a little bit. An explosive one caught him off guard, he caught it because he's cocky, its in his personality.

Still, I don't remember the Hulk doing any lasting damage to Loki either, and I don't see the T-1000 coming anywhere near the Hulk's level of strength. Multi-ton strength? Doubtful. the T-1000 was on par or slightly above Arnoldbot, I don't recall either pulling off 4,000lbs feats.

What IS in his character? Using illusions and cleaving the T-1000 with his spear. the terminator is never going to do any lasting damage to Loki. If Loki feels threatened he'll illusion his way out of it.

@sirfizzwhizz:

Why not? Loki was afraid of Hawkeyes arrows, and Thor himself is damaged by knives from Loki.

When it was said that he is afraid of Hawkeyes arrow?

are you implying that any dagger can pierce Thor or Loki skin by bringing up Thor getting stabbed by Loki?

The repulsor blast power can be adjust , are you really gonna lowball your way to prove that Loki can be harmed by the T - 1000

@katanalauncher: @sergeant-rl3: @lgh0stl: if anyone is "balling" Loki is you guys :/

I think it's Hyprocritical that Asgardians and Loki can be stabbed by edge weapons of sufficient force, there is no reason for T-1000 attacks that pierce Hyper Allow (which has insane feats of durability in itself over any modern metal today) is high balling on your parts.

Maybe normal steel will not harm him, too bad liquid metal made by AI that devolope molecule level phase metal, impossible liquid metal, and time travel itself. Not seeing why it's compared to a normal knife or the strength behind it by the Terminator itself is ignored.

Same BS arguments for Loki. Loki caught Hawkeyes arrow out of it being a threat. Prove otherwise. Hell, even Thor dodge arrows instead of "tanking them" from fodder in Dark World. Thor tanking blunt damage as well Loki blunt damage does not equal cutting or edge defense. Bullets vests do not stop knives. Different resistance to different forms of damage that Loki and even the superior Thor for that matter have not shown resistance to well other than your BS AoS asgardian. The AoS feat in itself is a BS argument as the same show stated Captain America can push a park brake on Bulldozer over 50 feet in seconds lmao. Cap never showed this strength in the films at all.

Deal with it.

@sirfizzwhizz

I'm not balling, just being realistic here bud. Asgardians so far have only been pierced by items of durability greater than that of standard Earthly materials, and the force behind those materials has been very superhuman in nature. Agents of Shield demonstrated that an OLD Asgardian could have a knife thrust at him, and he could bend the knife blade with ease. Sure, the T-1000 future alloy is nice, but it doesn't stack up in terms of durability and the force the T-1000 can apply with it.

Being designed by a future AI is good. The alloy is not the problem, the problem is that the T-1000 would need a hydro-press worth of strength to hurt Loki, which he does not. Remember, the same alloys that the Terminators are not indestructible, they can be broken with high caliber bullets, and sufficient crushing force.

You want proof as to why Loki was not threatened by the arrow? It's in the cheeky smile he gives Hawkeye, you're completely ignoring its in his personality, he's a got a major superiority complex.

I don't recall Thor ever being assaulted with Arrows in the Dark World. I know the Dark Elves had some form of energy weapons which could one-shot a fodder Asgardian warrior, I'm sure that's reason enough for him to want to avoid those.

You're right about different types of damage resistance for sure. That still doesn't mean Loki is a bulletproof vest vs a knife. He's yet to be pierced by a weapon (unless you consider Kurse piercing his illusion)

The AoS Asgardian is not BS. It is an actual canonical feat recognized in the MCU. Just because YOU don't like it, does not mean it did not happen. And there is a difference between an Asgardian actually bending a knife, and some guy SAYING that cap did something. Last I checked the hierarchy of feats is Actual Feats>>>>>>>>>Stated Feats, you have no argument to dispute the validity of the show.

Deal with it.

@sergeant-rl3: the asgardian feat is BS as the show has never been accurate to the films canon or not. Inconsistency is just that regardless of canon.

Why does it require. Hydraulic in strength? It does not, Loki is barely a few tonner, and stab Thor fine. Pretty sure a multi to blade that pierces Hyper Allow (which is superior to earthly materials by a lot) will work as well. If Cap can tank Loki's blows, not sure why the stronger T-1000 needs the strength of a 100 toner to pierce Loki with a super blade.

I still see no answers to dealing with T-1000 either.

@sirfizzwhizz: @sergeant-rl3: Bascially said all I wanted to say few thing to add.

T1000 can't phase metal, he got through the bars in the insisttution by turning into liquid metal and bypass the bars.

And just because a metal is a liable doesn't mean it's strong, in fact it's quite the oppsite most of the time.

The prove that Loki caught the arrow on purpose is easy, even after it exploded Loki was completety unaffected, despite the sharper from the arrow would hurt more than the actual arrow. Or the fact that he and other gods have proven they are immune to such attack.

Thor got thrown through the concrete bars by Hulk and was unaffected, you have to be really delusion to think he would be hurt by arrow or knives.

Just because you don't like one AoS feat doesn't make the whole series non canon, it's like you don't like Cap stale mating Ultron, therefore Vision is a fodder cuz he only have feats in that movie where I didn't agree one feat on.

There also the fact that Cap never shown the feat, and it could be the instructor roasting him for being cocky.

@sirfizzwhizz:

If you want to ignore actual feats, go ahead, I'll accept your concession.

It requires great strength to hurt an Asgardian because that's how they're written. Loki stabbed Thor, Loki's got both superhuman strength, and had a weapon durable enough no not break under the pressure. Again, the T-1000 doesn't have of those in his corner. Again, seriously doubt the T-1000 is a multitonner. I don't remember any 4,000lbs+ feats from him, please elucidate.

Cap was not close to tanking Loki's hit. Cap was agile enough to avoid most of them, those that DID land were devastating to him, and it was obvious had the fight not been interrupted, cap would've lost hard. I'd never call that tanking.

The T-1000 has no counter to Loki's illusions at all. Loki would toy with the poor thing until he gets bored of it. He'd than blast away at it after learning it can reform from physical strikes, but when melted it loses cohesion.

OP stated win conditions count destruction. As long as Loki can destroy enough of the machine to render it inoperable, he wins. and yes, his scepter is a heat based weapon, not "puncturing" don't be goofy. Every weapon in the movie, based off of the same alien tech was a heat based weapon, for further proof, see the scene in Age of Ultron where banner uses a Hydra blaster, designed from the Chitauri weapons. It melts the steel bars or Natasha's cell immediately.

@sergeant-rl3:

I'm using feats, your just accepting inconsistent pis/wis feats. I guess you concede. Glad to know lol.

Loki is only 2 toner at best. T-1000 has feats in that level. Loki's knife is only better than modern metals, same with Liquid Metal piercing feats. Not that hard to understand.

Cap would get one shot by Hulk or Thor. Yet tank many blows from Loki fine. Deal with it. Loki is not as strong or same ballpark as his brother. Same for durability.

T-1000 has scanners to diagnose and read the environment. He operates on the same cpu as T-800. Not seeing illusions that fool visual senses of organics mattering mate.

Loki has no proof to destroy T-1000 into inoperable scrap. So he cannot win anyway.

@katanalauncher:

I never said the metal for T-1000 phase like T-3000 herpy derp. Not once. Pay attention.

Exploding arrow is not stabbing damage. Loki caught just like Thor dodge them.

Thor durability and feats >>>>> Loki's. Ask Hulk lmao. Also blunt force and energy damage =\= stab damage resistance. The ignorance.

I never said AoS is non canon. That does not change the fact PIS/WIS is not involve. Inconsistent feats are just that. You plan on debating reasonably, you need to learn those things lol

@sergeant-rl3: Just to point out, the T-800 in Genisys kept a school bus from falling off a bridge with one hand and the T-1000 is stronger than the T-800. Now I'm just guessing here, but that's probably at the very least a 3-5 ton feat, maybe more, especially considering the T-800 wasn't struggling to hold the bus.

@nfactor1995: add on to this T-1000 physically overpowered T-800 several times in the T2. Also in the canon T2-3D film by Cameron, T-800 held open 50 foot blast doors powered by Hydralics.

Easy 2-3 tons.

T-1000 stomps Loki....so hard......

@nfactor1995: Thank you! I've yet to see Gensys, partly because I heard it stunk, but that's an important feat for the terminators.

@sirfizzwhizz AoS isn't inconsistent with their feats in the MCU, just because you don't like them does not dispute their validity in any debate. If you still elect to ignore them, then more power to you I suppose.

Cap did not tank any of Loki's blows, again, his shield did, and those that he could not dodge or otherwise block, he was brought to his knees by. Tanking is very different than what you're describing. Sure cap could hold his own against Loki, but never eat his strongest punch without flinching.

Never said Loki was as strong or as durable as his brother. It only stands to reason that he has strength equivalent to an average or slightly above average Asgardian.

I doubt that the T-1000, a machine designed by AI in a future where Illusions or magic does not exist would have the ability to see through them.

Like I said before, Loki's scepter is a heat based weapon, powerful enough to melt steel. It's not unlike plasma weapons, which are usually the norm for destroying terminators. Every shot from that thing would render more and more of the T-1000 inoperable.

Additionally, I call into question the strength of your mimetic alloy. I re-watched several scenes in T-2 and while it's regen is impressive, It was easily disrupted by gunshots, and at one point, The Arnold bot used a gun to shoot off part of the T-1000's arm. On the other hand, both Films and AoS consistently portray Asgardians as generally bulletproof.

Additionally, if the battle takes place in time square, as the OP stated, there's no reason why Loki would be unable to Mind-control anyone in the vicinity to fight for him.

@sergeant-rl3:

AoS isn't inconsistent with their feats in the MCU, just because you don't like them does not dispute their validity in any debate. If you still elect to ignore them, then more power to you I suppose.

I just dont like them? Funny, that show is one of the lowest ratings for anything Marvel related, and filled with inconsistencies that I pointed out.Cing on to the single one time asgardian feat over the other movie feats I stated. More power to you.

Cap did not tank any of Loki's blows, again, his shield did, and those that he could not dodge or otherwise block, he was brought to his knees by. Tanking is very different than what you're describing. Sure cap could hold his own against Loki, but never eat his strongest punch without flinching.

Cap took few hits without the shield. Nice try.

Never said Loki was as strong or as durable as his brother. It only stands to reason that he has strength equivalent to an average or slightly above average Asgardian.

He is not full asgardian though mate lol. In fact, oh snap, he is not even a Asgardian. He is a Frost Giant. So much for comparing him to Asgardians as the norm. Frost Giants were slaughter like fodder to average Asgardians.

I doubt that the T-1000, a machine designed by AI in a future where Illusions or magic does not exist would have the ability to see through them.

Why not? Magic affects machines? Proof? In fact there is no Magic from Thor, only not understood science. I dont see MCU Asgard traveling time, and changing the molevules of tissue, or making liquid metal or phase metal. Not sure why the "illussions" will work mate.

Like I said before, Loki's scepter is a heat based weapon, powerful enough to melt steel. It's not unlike plasma weapons, which are usually the norm for destroying terminators. Every shot from that thing would render more and more of the T-1000 inoperable.

Again, proof it will melt him? How hot it burns? All you have is "it harm the Quin JeT" which is so what? A thin armor plane made by modern metals.

Additionally, I call into question the strength of your mimetic alloy. I re-watched several scenes in T-2 and while it's regen is impressive, It was easily disrupted by gunshots, and at one point, The Arnold bot used a gun to shoot off part of the T-1000's arm. On the other hand, both Films and AoS consistently portray Asgardians as generally bulletproof.

Yes, liquid metal flows like putty to gunshots. Surprise?! Make sense mate. The harden parts were blown apart as well. Not surprising. That does not change the fact the Metal still pierced, and pinned a T-800 to a wall.

Additionally, if the battle takes place in time square, as the OP stated, there's no reason why Loki would be unable to Mind-control anyone in the vicinity to fight for him.

Who says there is people around? Also he has to tap people chests to mind control. What would it matter anyway when T-1000 will fodder them? By this lame logic I can argue T-1000 gets 10 of his buddies teleported from the future to back him. Why not?

@sirfizzwhizz

Wow, who'da guessed that people prefer the bigbudget films over a low budget show? You genius. Keep ignoring feats then, whatever, you're cool. Also, why bag on the show? It's Rotten Tomato's score is higher than several of Marvel's films.

Maybe you should rewatch the scene. I did. Loki touched Cap 3 times. 3 Times, and each time he ragdolled him. "He took hits" I assume you mean he survived his hits, sure, just don't act like cap was tanking a thing, as absolutely wasn't.

You're right, he's not genetically an Asgardian, but you've also conveniently forgotten whatever megic Odin used to glaze over Loki's ancestry. Unless of course you want to continue this debate as if Loki is only a short frost giant, sure bud, because their magic ice touch causes horrible frostbite to Asgardians, which would KO your T-1000. Pick your poison.

Dude, you just proved illusions will work without realizing it. If we're going by ye'olde, "It's not magic, its just sufficiently advanced science that it only appears to be magic." Then that means whatever mechanism Loki's illusions are made with are by default advanced enough to pass as magic, and enough to fool a T-1000's sensors. Last I checked, their sensors use mostly facial recog. software to track targets, unless you know of any times a Terminator encountered a hologram or something of the sort.

"Prove it will melt him." Okay. Loki's scepter, and all of Chitarui-based energy weapons that came after it were more than capable of melting steel. As you mentioned, it took down the Quinjet. The clearest example is the Hydra-build energy weapons in AoU. They were based off of scavenged chitauri stiff, and Bruce Banner was able to shoot clean through a steel cage to recue black widow. Unless of course you think the Hydra built weapon was superior to the one Thanos gave Loki...powered by an infinity stone...And by the way, your argument that the Quinjet being made of modern metals, somehow means Loki's scepter is weak, holds absolutely no water. The T-1000 was destroyed in a vat of modern metals too.

Hey, its great that it pierced a T-800 to the wall, however the Gensys Arnoldbots were considerably less durable than those of the earlier films...a sniper rifle shot through one's chest (that's annoying). All I meant is that when hardened, the alloy becomes brittle, and more easily broken apart, a major flaw in my opinion.

Who says there's people around? Well, the OP stated it'd be times square, and the OP also did not state that the battle area was unpopulated. And the reason the T-1000 cannot have his buddies timetravel with him, is because he has no ability to contact the future AI. Loki on the other hand had mind-control in the bag.

@sergeant-rl3: the asgardian teacher crushing the knife with his bare hand is in S1 ep8 the well.

Guys lets not low ball the T-1000 here. Arnold held up a 15 TON bus with absolutely no effort and the T-1000 is stronger than him.

@sergeant-rl3: I believe that sniper round that disabled the T-800 was a specially prepped bullet specifically designed to penetrate the T-800's exoskeleton.

Loki wins imo.

T-1000 or stalemate.