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#51 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

These feats trump anything that Leon has done speed/agility-wise his entire career!

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Wooooow... so... none of those feats are anything like what you described at all.

We've got Bruce in midair, while like, three guys fire at him and he uses his motorcycle to shield himself.

Then we have him literally just aim dodging one bullet.

Then we have an inferior laser dodging feat to Leon's.

Uh, I believe you mentioned something about "dodging a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting at the from different angles and positions"? Can I see that? Or how about something that's just impressive in general?

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#52 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

The fact that people think that guns are a threat here are pretty funny. Selina has deflected a bullet with the hilt of her whip. She also took a dart out of the air with her whip, and the dart was shot out of a gun. Not to mention she dances around bullets often.

With that being said, If Catwoman won't have a problem, that goes even more so for Harley, who is faster and more agile.

As for the fight, I don't know enough on Leon to say.

So you're saying that because Catwoman can time one lone bullet fired by a canon fodder, she can assuredly dodge repeated rapid fire from an expert, in fact within the top 2 marksman in his whole universe, who knows how to predict movements and maneuver his targets into positions where they can't dodge?

If Selina was in a fight with Deadshot, you'd bring up her timing a dart and laugh at the idea of guns even being a factor based on that?

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#53 Edited by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: Pretty funny considering Selina faught Floyd and did extremely well. And she stomped Huntress too.

You can fanboy Leon, he isn't doing jack here. Either solos.

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#54 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: Pretty funny considering Selina faught Floyd and did extremely well. And she stomped Huntress too.

You can fanboy Leon, he isn't doing jack here. Either solos.

By "she did extremely well" are you saying he actually could not tag her?

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#55 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: He could not tag her for a long time even though he was shooting at her non stop and she landed a kick on him, though at the end of the fight he drew a gun out of nowhere and pointed in her face ending the fight.

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#56 Posted by ZBeast (447 posts) - - Show Bio

A loose bullet from a fodder thug <<< A sniper round from Leon. Seriously, freaking comparisons.

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#57 Posted by SainguineXshadow (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon can take hit's from B.O.W.S Harley and Catwoman are not bothering him in the slightest.

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#58 Posted by Killerwasp (17280 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon can't handle the racks those two carry he's going to get k.od from that alone

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#59 Posted by SainguineXshadow (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: Plz Ada and plenty of other Re Girls have Racks don't faze him in the slightest.

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#60 Posted by Killerwasp (17280 posts) - - Show Bio

@sainguinexshadow: their racks ain't racks like Harley and cat woman who has racks on racks, can Leon handle racks on racks? Lol

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#61 Edited by Rac95 (4321 posts) - - Show Bio

@killerwasp: Well Leon has the style to make ladies fall for him whilst under water and on the escape from her mutated brother

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#62 Posted by SainguineXshadow (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

@rac95 said:

@killerwasp: Well Leon has the style to make ladies fall for him whilst under water and on the escape from her mutated brother

This^

Leon is a ladies man.

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#63 Posted by Killerwasp (17280 posts) - - Show Bio
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#64 Posted by SainguineXshadow (5251 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: He could not tag her for a long time even though he was shooting at her non stop and she landed a kick on him, though at the end of the fight he drew a gun out of nowhere and pointed in her face ending the fight.

Where the scans bitch.

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#66 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-pc-catwoman-anthp2000-vs-cw-green-arrow-lubub5-1897364/?page=1#js-message-23

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#67 Posted by Rac95 (4321 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Posted by Killerwasp (17280 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Edited by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@the_hajduk:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/cav-pc-catwoman-anthp2000-vs-cw-green-arrow-lubub5-1897364/?page=1#js-message-23

Thank you. That's impressive, and Deadshot is certainly a stronger marksman than Leon, at least as far as sheer on-the-bullseye accuracy goes, but I think your description of "Deadshot was firing nonstop and he could not tag her for a very long time" was a little disingenuous. The confrontation only lasted one page, Selina took cover immediately from Floyd and then used stealth to get the drop on him. She's not some kind of speedster, she uses skill to take the advantage. I don't imagine she can just run headfirst into a hail of gunfire and weave through every bullet.

So this proves she can take cover from Leon. But she needs to close the distance in order to actually do some potential damage, so the question is, could she ghost and get the drop on Leon in the same manner?

Well, I have to ask, do you think that Catwoman is stealthy enough to kidnap the president's daughter and smuggle her into another country singlehandedly? If not, she'll never be able to catch Leon by surprise. Because that's exactly what this guy did...

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ohhwqhaaoYN5sM4p2/giphy.gif

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#70 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

These feats trump anything that Leon has done speed/agility-wise his entire career!

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Wooooow... so... none of those feats are anything like what you described at all.

We've got Bruce in midair, while like, three guys fire at him and he uses his motorcycle to shield himself.

Then we have him literally just aim dodging one bullet.

Then we have an inferior laser dodging feat to Leon's.

Uh, I believe you mentioned something about "dodging a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting at the from different angles and positions"? Can I see that? Or how about something that's just impressive in general?

1. Bruce was able to effortlessly crush a boat full of thugs are with firearms and bladed weapons which Leon has no comparable showings.

2. He dodged several shots from a handgun and blitzed someone with an automatic firearm all within point blank range. Again, Leon has no comparable showings to this.

3. How is Bruce's laser feat inferior when a) he is flipping through several laser web-like grids while Leon was struggling to avoid a single grid and b) Bruce showed far more acrobatic finesse in comparison to Leon's struggle flip that ended up with him face down on the floor.

Batman has feats like blocking bullets with his wrist gauntlet from a sub-machine gun. Leon speed and agility is no where near close to anything that Batman is capable of doing.

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#71 Edited by ZBeast (447 posts) - - Show Bio

Love how the fanboys have to bring up Batman's feats as if this was about him or he had jack to do.

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#72 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@zbeast said:

Love how the fanboys have to bring up Batman's feats as if this was about him or he had jack to do.

Then why was Batman brought up in this thread in the first place then smart ass? Because The_Hajduk brought Batman up in the context of Leon speed/agility showings which he argued was better than what Batman is capable of doing. Obviously, if he is doing a comparative analysis between Leon and Batman he believes that this is a relevant component of his argument....right?

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#73 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk said:
@nick_hero22 said:

These feats trump anything that Leon has done speed/agility-wise his entire career!

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Wooooow... so... none of those feats are anything like what you described at all.

We've got Bruce in midair, while like, three guys fire at him and he uses his motorcycle to shield himself.

Then we have him literally just aim dodging one bullet.

Then we have an inferior laser dodging feat to Leon's.

Uh, I believe you mentioned something about "dodging a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting at the from different angles and positions"? Can I see that? Or how about something that's just impressive in general?

1. Bruce was able to effortlessly crush a boat full of thugs are with firearms and bladed weapons which Leon has no comparable showings.

2. He dodged several shots from a handgun and blitzed someone with an automatic firearm all within point blank range. Again, Leon has no comparable showings to this.

3. How is Bruce's laser feat inferior when a) he is flipping through several laser web-like grids while Leon was struggling to avoid a single grid and b) Bruce showed far more acrobatic finesse in comparison to Leon's struggle flip that ended up with him face down on the floor.

Batman has feats like blocking bullets with his wrist gauntlet from a sub-machine gun. Leon speed and agility is no where near close to anything that Batman is capable of doing.

No.

You said, "Batman is able to dodge a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting from different angles and positions."

Then what you actually showed was him dodging no bullets and beating up a ton of fodder, and him dodging just one bullet while beating up fodder. If the fodder were armed, none of them used their weapons.

It's also extremely disingenuous that you think Leon can not beat fodder when the opening level of RE4 revolved around fighting off a whole village of metahumans.

Batman's laser grid feat is significantly inferior to Leon's for very clear, quantifiable reasons.

A) Leon's lasers were waving vertically, Batman's were stationary
B) Leon's lasers were also racing towards him horizontally, Batman's were stationary
C) Batman took many minutes to plan his route before entering; Leon reacted instantly
D) Batman was exhausted at the end and Leon wasn't

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#74 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@zbeast said:

Love how the fanboys have to bring up Batman's feats as if this was about him or he had jack to do.

Catwoman touched Batgod and curbstomps Leon.

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#75 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon in a good fight.

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#76 Edited by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:
@the_hajduk said:
@nick_hero22 said:

These feats trump anything that Leon has done speed/agility-wise his entire career!

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Wooooow... so... none of those feats are anything like what you described at all.

We've got Bruce in midair, while like, three guys fire at him and he uses his motorcycle to shield himself.

Then we have him literally just aim dodging one bullet.

Then we have an inferior laser dodging feat to Leon's.

Uh, I believe you mentioned something about "dodging a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting at the from different angles and positions"? Can I see that? Or how about something that's just impressive in general?

1. Bruce was able to effortlessly crush a boat full of thugs are with firearms and bladed weapons which Leon has no comparable showings.

2. He dodged several shots from a handgun and blitzed someone with an automatic firearm all within point blank range. Again, Leon has no comparable showings to this.

3. How is Bruce's laser feat inferior when a) he is flipping through several laser web-like grids while Leon was struggling to avoid a single grid and b) Bruce showed far more acrobatic finesse in comparison to Leon's struggle flip that ended up with him face down on the floor.

Batman has feats like blocking bullets with his wrist gauntlet from a sub-machine gun. Leon speed and agility is no where near close to anything that Batman is capable of doing.

No.

You said, "Batman is able to dodge a hail of bullets from dozens of gunmen who are shooting from different angles and positions."

Then what you actually showed was him dodging no bullets and beating up a ton of fodder, and him dodging just one bullet while beating up fodder. If the fodder were armed, none of them used their weapons.

It's also extremely disingenuous that you think Leon can not beat fodder when the opening level of RE4 revolved around fighting off a whole village of metahumans.

Batman's laser grid feat is significantly inferior to Leon's for very clear, quantifiable reasons.

A) Leon's lasers were waving vertically, Batman's were stationary

B) Leon's lasers were also racing towards him horizontally, Batman's were stationary

C) Batman took many minutes to plan his route before entering; Leon reacted instantly

D) Batman was exhausted at the end and Leon wasn't

1. Batman and other street levelers in the DC Universe can dodge hails of gunfire from several gunmen though.

2. He was dodging bullets and blitzing gunmen in both sets of scans. You can clearly see that people are aiming at him and shooting at him while he was on the boat, but he was to fast for them to hit which was why they were being rag-dolled by him all over the place. The question is where are Leon's comparable showings at because I don't see them here?

3. What evidence do you have that the villagers in RE4 are metahuman in stats outside of a few exceptions, and its not like Batman doesn't have his fair share of showings against metahumans that could solo the RE-verse like Solomon Grundy.

4. Batman's laser grid feat is objectively better because.........

a) Batman was flipping THROUGH several laser grid webs in his showing while Leon dodged one web by flipping off of the wall then he jumped through the middle of the web when it followed him after that before finally flipping to dodge two individual lasers and landing face first on the ground while the rest of the lasers pasted over.

b) It's irrelevant whether or not they were stationary because Batman had to flip THROUGH several web-like grids displaying acrobatic prowess that Leon isn't capable of replicating.

c) Batman's had more laser grids to jump through though, and in addition to the floor having pressure sensors if I'm not mistaken.

d) Batman was already injured before performing this feat, and like I said before Batman had to flip through multiple webs.

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#77 Posted by MErulezall (3587 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk said:

@zbeast said:

Love how the fanboys have to bring up Batman's feats as if this was about him or he had jack to do.

Catwoman touched Batgod and curbstomps Leon.

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#78 Posted by itchman (184 posts) - - Show Bio

Harley was Red Hood level before Flashpoint. Don't know how she does against guns though.

She has dodged machine gun fire while on a pogo stick.

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#79 Posted by Strafe Prower (13013 posts) - - Show Bio

@rac95: I'm fully aware of who Leon is, as I have played several RE games. With that being said, I've seen nothing from him that a normal street level superhero could not accomplish. I see no reason why he has such an advantage in this fight.

@anthp2000: Unfortunately, I don't have scans on hand, but I do know that it happened in her solo series. The second volume if I'm not mistaken.

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#80 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

@strafe_prower: Selina has plenty solo series. Which one are you talking about?

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#81 Posted by Strafe Prower (13013 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: The one from the early 2000's with the Zeiss arc. I don't remember the issue numbers, as it's been the better part of a decade since I last read those comics.

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#82 Posted by Rac95 (4321 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25704 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: The one from the early 2000's with the Zeiss arc. I don't remember the issue numbers, as it's been the better part of a decade since I last read those comics.

I remember the arc, volume 3, 2002, issues 28-30 if I'm right. I still don't recall such instance.

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#84 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Batman and other street levelers in the DC Universe can dodge hails of gunfire from several gunmen though.

They can? Wow. It sure would be awesome if you could post one sole solitary example of this.

2. He was dodging bullets and blitzing gunmen in both sets of scans. You can clearly see that people are aiming at him and shooting at him while he was on the boat, but he was to fast for them to hit which was why they were being rag-dolled by him all over the place. The question is where are Leon's comparable showings at because I don't see them here?

Uhhh, where exactly is this happened? I see Batman shielding himself from gunfire using his motorcycle, then another panel shows many bullets being fired into the floor, and that is it. Maybe your headcanon version of Batman is some kind of super speedster effortless bullet timer who can weave in between streams of assault fire, but none of the actual writers agree with that. To them, Batman is a peak human. That's why none of them ever have him do the speedster shit you are describing.

You want to see dodging a wall of gunfire? This is Leon outracing over a dozen elite Spec Ops all firing automatic rifles.

Loading Video...

3. What evidence do you have that the villagers in RE4 are metahuman in stats outside of a few exceptions,

Well that is kinda the entire point of the viruses. Umbrella wanted to create bio-organic weapons for the military, super soldiers who would never tire and can overpower any opponent. Even the basic T-Virus zombies from the classic games always overpowered every character they came across, besides the protagonists. They could bust through thick wooden barricades with no problem, dig themselves out of graves in a few seconds, even bust through a foot of solid ice after being submerged in a frozen pool. The Ganado were the evolution of zombies, they can grab Leon by the throat with one hand and ragdoll him, which is impressive because Leon himself is a superhuman by DC standards. They can literally throw scythes across an entire room with the accuracy and strength to decapitate a head. The impressive thing is that Leon faced an entire army of opponents all physically superior to him. Batman might solo two dozen goons but that's not pure skill, he's also 3x faster and stronger than them all.

and its not like Batman doesn't have his fair share of showings against metahumans that could solo the RE-verse like Solomon Grundy.

Wow. Is there anybody on this site more callously biased than you are? You will literally say anything, no mind for context or truth. Yeah, everyone knows that Solomon Grundy's power level varies with every resurrection. Batman could not beat the Grundy that goes toe to toe with Supes. The Grundy who Batman beats would get eaten by any of the Godzilla-sized monsters that live in RE.

4. Batman's laser grid feat is objectively better because.........

a) Batman was flipping THROUGH several laser grid webs in his showing while Leon dodged one web by flipping off of the wall then he jumped through the middle of the web when it followed him after that before finally flipping to dodge two individual lasers and landing face first on the ground while the rest of the lasers pasted over.

b) It's irrelevant whether or not they were stationary because Batman had to flip THROUGH several web-like grids displaying acrobatic prowess that Leon isn't capable of replicating.

c) Batman's had more laser grids to jump through though, and in addition to the floor having pressure sensors if I'm not mistaken.

d) Batman was already injured before performing this feat, and like I said before Batman had to flip through multiple webs.

Talk about splitting hairs. You sure are desperate, but nobody reading something like this is going to take you seriously. I don't even understand what you are getting at. Leon had walls of lasers racing towards him. Batman had a wall of lasers that were stationary. That's all there is to it.

Stop desperately lowballing Leon by saying he fell flat on his face, as if he tripped or something like he's Steve Urkel. That's so desperate and disingenuous, you're going to lose any credibility you have with lowballing like that. He did not fall, he had to go to the ground in order to evade the top row of lasers. But he landed perfectly softly after backflipping, then easily spingboarded back to his feet.

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#85 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@rac95: I'm fully aware of who Leon is, as I have played several RE games. With that being said, I've seen nothing from him that a normal street level superhero could not accomplish. I see no reason why he has such an advantage in this fight.

What exactly are you hesitant on? Strength? Speed? Skill? Leon Kennedy is the most highly trained, most skilled fighter in the world. Not one of, I mean THE. That is in a world with very established characters, like Ada Wong who can sense attacks in her sleep and dodge them, and also go H2H with a monster strong enough to strike somebody and send them rocketing all the way down the block. She snuck up on Leon and put a gun to his back, and from that position he reversed the situation and pinned her down in two moves with nearly no effort. Jack Krauser was literally stated to be the best soldier in the entire U.S. Army. That INCLUDES all of its Special Forces divisions. After losing an arm and being discharged from the military, he was the best mercenary available for hire, and kidnapped the president's daughter and smuggled her into another country singlehandedly like it wasn't even a problem. When I say singlehandedly I mean singlehandedly, he only had one arm. He had all the same training as Leon and at least twice as much experience, yet working side-by-side with Leon literally made the guy develop an inferiority complex about his skills. They were only together on one mission, fought an army of monsters, a couple King Kong-sized monsters, and finally a Godzilla-sized monster, Leon never lost his cool once, he was in total control of every situation with just a handgun, Krauser saw how badass he was and lost his mind, injected himself with a Master Plaga to gain blurring and casual bullet timing speed, and the strength to rend steel just in his grip, all in a desperate attempt to match up with Leon. He then lured Leon to a battlefield of his choosing, full of booby traps and puzzles, also being patrolled by gunner robots and self destructing robots, ambushed Leon on top of it all, AND rigged the tower to explode in merely three minutes, with the logic that he either kills Leon now or they die together..... then he mutated his arm into a gigantic bulletproof claw and rushed at Leon. Leon killed him within the three minutes and just left, not even out of breath. You call all that unimpressive?

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#86 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@nick_hero22 said:

1. Batman and other street levelers in the DC Universe can dodge hails of gunfire from several gunmen though.

They can? Wow. It sure would be awesome if you could post one sole solitary example of this.

2. He was dodging bullets and blitzing gunmen in both sets of scans. You can clearly see that people are aiming at him and shooting at him while he was on the boat, but he was to fast for them to hit which was why they were being rag-dolled by him all over the place. The question is where are Leon's comparable showings at because I don't see them here?

Uhhh, where exactly is this happened? I see Batman shielding himself from gunfire using his motorcycle, then another panel shows many bullets being fired into the floor, and that is it. Maybe your headcanon version of Batman is some kind of super speedster effortless bullet timer who can weave in between streams of assault fire, but none of the actual writers agree with that. To them, Batman is a peak human. That's why none of them ever have him do the speedster shit you are describing.

You want to see dodging a wall of gunfire? This is Leon outracing over a dozen elite Spec Ops all firing automatic rifles.

Loading Video...

3. What evidence do you have that the villagers in RE4 are metahuman in stats outside of a few exceptions,

Well that is kinda the entire point of the viruses. Umbrella wanted to create bio-organic weapons for the military, super soldiers who would never tire and can overpower any opponent. Even the basic T-Virus zombies from the classic games always overpowered every character they came across, besides the protagonists. They could bust through thick wooden barricades with no problem, dig themselves out of graves in a few seconds, even bust through a foot of solid ice after being submerged in a frozen pool. The Ganado were the evolution of zombies, they can grab Leon by the throat with one hand and ragdoll him, which is impressive because Leon himself is a superhuman by DC standards. They can literally throw scythes across an entire room with the accuracy and strength to decapitate a head. The impressive thing is that Leon faced an entire army of opponents all physically superior to him. Batman might solo two dozen goons but that's not pure skill, he's also 3x faster and stronger than them all.

and its not like Batman doesn't have his fair share of showings against metahumans that could solo the RE-verse like Solomon Grundy.

Wow. Is there anybody on this site more callously biased than you are? You will literally say anything, no mind for context or truth. Yeah, everyone knows that Solomon Grundy's power level varies with every resurrection. Batman could not beat the Grundy that goes toe to toe with Supes. The Grundy who Batman beats would get eaten by any of the Godzilla-sized monsters that live in RE.

4. Batman's laser grid feat is objectively better because.........

a) Batman was flipping THROUGH several laser grid webs in his showing while Leon dodged one web by flipping off of the wall then he jumped through the middle of the web when it followed him after that before finally flipping to dodge two individual lasers and landing face first on the ground while the rest of the lasers pasted over.

b) It's irrelevant whether or not they were stationary because Batman had to flip THROUGH several web-like grids displaying acrobatic prowess that Leon isn't capable of replicating.

c) Batman's had more laser grids to jump through though, and in addition to the floor having pressure sensors if I'm not mistaken.

d) Batman was already injured before performing this feat, and like I said before Batman had to flip through multiple webs.

Talk about splitting hairs. You sure are desperate, but nobody reading something like this is going to take you seriously. I don't even understand what you are getting at. Leon had walls of lasers racing towards him. Batman had a wall of lasers that were stationary. That's all there is to it.

Stop desperately lowballing Leon by saying he fell flat on his face, as if he tripped or something like he's Steve Urkel. That's so desperate and disingenuous, you're going to lose any credibility you have with lowballing like that. He did not fall, he had to go to the ground in order to evade the top row of lasers. But he landed perfectly softly after backflipping, then easily spingboarded back to his feet.

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And Leon can't replicate a single one of these feats.........

1. As was already articulated to you that their were gunmen on the boat aiming and shooting at Batman after he jumped on and then proceeded to blitz everyone which is why you see the gunmen flying all over the place. You are a real sick delusional troll if you think that running AWAY from a group of gunmen to take cover behind a metal compactor is the same thing as running TOWARD gunmen to disarm and knockout them while they are shooting directly at you, need to log off because you have some clear mental deficiencies because the difference is obvious as day. In those previous scans I posted Batman was blitzing and dodging gunfire at point-blank from Spec Ops while Leon was running for dear life to go take cover behind a metal compactor so he wouldn't get his head blew off.

2. "Well that is kinda the entire point of the viruses. Umbrella wanted to create bio-organic weapons for the military, super soldiers who would never tire and can overpower any opponent. Even the basic T-Virus zombies from the classic games always overpowered every character they came across, besides the protagonists. They could bust through thick wooden barricades with no problem, dig themselves out of graves in a few seconds, even bust through a foot of solid ice after being submerged in a frozen pool."

None of this is impressive by comic book standards by any means! You have street level characters in the DC Universe that can dodge/deflect bullets, punched through bulletproof glass, and knock people through stone walls. You are a delusional troll!!!

"The Ganado were the evolution of zombies, they can grab Leon by the throat with one hand and ragdoll him, which is impressive because Leon himself is a superhuman by DC standards."

Leon doesn't have a single feat that would make him peak human by DC standards let alone superhuman. He can't even dodge bullets which is why he has to go run behind a metal compactor to avoid getting his head blew off.

"They can literally throw scythes across an entire room with the accuracy and strength to decapitate a head."

Not impressive at all, street levelers in DC can punch through bulletproof glass, punch people through stone walls, knock down steel doors, and etc.

3. This is what happens when trolls get on here and make a whole lot accusations without even knowing anything about the character they are trying to debate against.

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4. Leon dodged a single WEB of lasers twice, one by flipping off of the wall and another by jumping through the middle. Those lasers moved, but they didn't race anywhere; so stop abusing language for rhetorical effect. Batman was able to dodge multiple webs of lasers despite being injured beforehand. In no world is Leon feat objectively better than Batman other than in the mind of a delusional troll. Are you telling me you didn't see Leon hit a back flip to avoid two individual lasers and land face down on the ground while the rest of the lasers passed over him?

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#87 Posted by lubub55 (12875 posts) - - Show Bio
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#88 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio
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#89 Edited by Amendment50 (15147 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not seeing anything particularly impressive for Leon speed-wise. It's easy to use colorful language to describe feats which are not really so great.

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#90 Posted by ZBeast (447 posts) - - Show Bio

Eh, Krauser would stomp and Leon scales to him. Guy dodged and blocked bullets like Harley and Catwoman never could.

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#91 Edited by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50 said:

I'm not seeing anything particularly impressive for Leon speed-wise. It's easy to use colorful language to describe feats which are not really so great.

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#92 Posted by Amendment50 (15147 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Edited by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50 said:

@the_hajduk: Yeah. I saw both of those.

This isn't colorful language; this is evaluating all of the factors at play.

Leon is walking through a narrow corridor, when with no warning five zig-zagging laser beams appear right in front of his face and begin racing towards him. He has literally less than 1 second to perceive the attack, analyze the pattern of each beam (as all five of them are waving at a different angle and trajectory), and locate a pathway through the beams, then he has to flawlessly act that out with an agile somersault.

Then, immediately, eight more laser beam emitters descend in his path. The door behind him is locked, so he has no choice but to walk forward, right into what he knows is a trap, and somehow sense the laser beams activating after he is standing right in the center of their emission, evade them with a backflip, and then IMMEDIATELY with nearly NO TIME to react, analyze all eight beams and predict the patterns they will be revolving at, because once again all eight beams are simultaneously rolling up and down at different trajectories, then plam the one, possible, obscure path through them -- but this requires performing a backflip to slide his way through the top row then land with perfect timing to slide underneath the bottom row. To Leon, this wasn't choreographed. He didn't know he had to perform that exact maneuver. He had to just look at the lasers, find a path through them, and then think of the right way to contort his body so that he just barely slips passed each individual beam with only inches to spare.

Finally, the last group of lasers appear, and now there are well over a dozen of them blocking any possible way through. So once more without any time to react or think, Leon runs headfirst towards the wall of beams in order to build momentum, then turns tail and runs back towards the door, runs 10 feet up a vertical wall and perfectly backflips through the narrow opening in between the lasers at the very top.

I'm asking you to think about the calculation speed necessary for Leon to find pathways through all three of those walls with less than 1 second to react each time. This feat isn't about the acrobatic maneuvers he pulls off; it's about the reaction time necessary to analyze all those beams and deduce each pattern literally in an instant, so that he can perfectly maneuver and slide his body in between the narrow gaps between each individual laser.

This is a feat of superhuman reaction speed. No man on Earth can possibly do this. Nobody comes even close. This is more incredible than any bullet dodging feat Batman, or any of his cohorts, have ever performed. The combination of strategic planning, adaptability, perception, coordination, and plain reflexes all acting at once in real time, blows the simple knee-jerk, one-motion dodge of a bullet time, out of the water. It also blows Batman's own laser grid feat out of the water, because Batman had all the time in the world to react. His lasers were stationary, but Leon's were racing towards him.

I can't imagine ANY other peak human character replicating this. This goes for all my favorites too. Chris has his own laser dodging feat, in a similar corridor with lasers racing towards him, but there weren't as many and they weren't waving vertically, so he would not come close to reacting at the speed which Leon reacted here. Solid Snake dodged a hypersonic railgun shell, but making one simple knee-jerk dodge is not equatable to the active strategizing going on in Leon's mind. Solid Snake would have met his demise in that hallway, for sure. The ONLY street level characters I can think of, who would be able to replicate this (and this is just off the top of my head, obviously I'm not thinking of EVERY street level character ever) are Daredevil and Spider-Man, and that is only because of their radar and spider sense respectively aiding them. Leon, did this without any special abilities. Just pure strategic wits and reaction time. This means his brain processes information at superhuman speeds.

This is not a feat which should be underestimated. This paints Leon as almost untouchable. If he can find his way through a wall of racing laser beams, he can find his way through any punch or kick Catwoman throws.

EDIT: Captain America is a huge, huge, HUGE "maybe" on surviving that laser hallway. Only because there are several mentions over the years of his brain processing information at superhuman speed, and that scene where he states he "sees faster" than normal people. However, I'm not sure if this is consistent enough for him to solidly replicate it. Leon survived seemingly with very little trouble, so he would probably escape 10/10 times. Captain America, given his lack of consistency when it comes to just how fast he thinks and perceives, might clear it at least 5/10 times.

But a non-enhanced like Batman lacks the superhuman processing speed, whereas an enhanced like Harley lacks the trained reaction time and strategic awareness. You need BOTH.

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#94 Posted by Amendment50 (15147 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: Yeah, what that is is Leon jumping through two narrow openings in a laser grid that is moving toward him at a relatively slow speed.

Just like how you described Leon literally turning tail and fleeing, making no evasive maneuvers whatsoever, from a crowd of gunman until he made it behind cover, as "Leon outracing over a dozen elite Spec Ops all firing automatic rifles" and "dodging a wall of gunfire".

You are so eager to deconstruct feats and criticize people for exaggerating other characters' feats and yet you take such a thoroughly exaggerated and uncritical look at the feats of the character you are defending.

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#95 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_hajduk: Yeah, what that is is Leon jumping through two narrow openings in a laser grid that is moving toward him at a relatively slow speed.

Just like how you described Leon literally turning tail and fleeing, making no evasive maneuvers whatsoever, from a crowd of gunman until he made it behind cover, as "Leon outracing over a dozen elite Spec Ops all firing automatic rifles" and "dodging a wall of gunfire".

You are so eager to deconstruct feats and criticize people for exaggerating other characters' feats and yet you take such a thoroughly exaggerated and uncritical look at the feats of the character you are defending.

I don't think that bullet dodging feat is very impressive. I posted it ironically because I was making fun of nick_hero. I might not have been clear but notice how I've never really brought up that feat before.

I explained the laser feat as best I could. I think you're just choosing to be closed-minded about it and doing your best to diminish it. You say I'm exaggerating but you're doing the exact opposite, there is obviously a lot more going on than just jumping through two openings, as the lasers were constantly waving up and down meaning no opening was present for longer than a second, Leon had to analyze their paths and predict the openings appearance, and maneuver himself in such a way that his body would fall into the openings as the lasers raced by and the lasers would slide passed his body. He had less than a second to do this each time, his brain must process information at superhuman speeds.

I've explained in detail why exactly this is a superhuman feat, if you don't agree at this point than there is nothing more to discuss. Let's talk about the Tyrant dodging now.

What a lot of people don't realize about Tyrants is just how superhumanly fast they are. Their reflexes and reaction times are programmed to respond at superhuman speeds. They can perceive a missile being fired at them, and raise their arms from a stationary position, up in time to catch the missile in their fingers and then turn it back on the shooter.

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So this isn't just dodging any old giant monster. That would be impressive enough, given the sheer size, ferocity, power, and psychological factors all disadvantaging Leon. But no, on top of that, he is dancing around a creature with bonafide superhuman speed and reflexes, and not just that but pulling off uncanny Devil May Cry-type moves that half of which aren't even physically possible. Instead of running away from the giant monster like a normal person, Leon runs straight at it and literally swings himself around and through the Tyrant's legs while dodging punches, then somehow slides himself more than 20 feet across the rooftop while taking shots at the creature trying to catch up. He's making the Tyrant look like a complete moron. Then, after somersaulting back to his feet, in a maneuver that would make even the most over-the-top of animes do a double take, Leon dodges the Tyrant's uppercut, but instead of just avoiding it, he chooses to grab onto the fist and use it to propel himself stories into the air, so that he can take pop shots at the monster as he nosedives straight towards it, and despite being in midair where it should be impossible to dodge, he somehow flips over the Tyrant's incoming punch, uses his arm as a landing pad, while dropkicking his heel straight into the Tyrant's face hard enough to visibly hurt him!

That type of agility is not within the realm of peak humans. I used to put Leon on par with Batman -- not after that. This is Devil May Cry shit. His ability to maneuver himself and slide all over and counterstrike while trapped in midair, that is all superhuman shit.

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#96 Posted by nick_hero22 (8686 posts) - - Show Bio

@amendment50 said:

@the_hajduk: Yeah, what that is is Leon jumping through two narrow openings in a laser grid that is moving toward him at a relatively slow speed.

Just like how you described Leon literally turning tail and fleeing, making no evasive maneuvers whatsoever, from a crowd of gunman until he made it behind cover, as "Leon outracing over a dozen elite Spec Ops all firing automatic rifles" and "dodging a wall of gunfire".

You are so eager to deconstruct feats and criticize people for exaggerating other characters' feats and yet you take such a thoroughly exaggerated and uncritical look at the feats of the character you are defending.

I don't think that bullet dodging feat is very impressive. I posted it ironically because I was making fun of nick_hero. I might not have been clear but notice how I've never really brought up that feat before.

I explained the laser feat as best I could. I think you're just choosing to be closed-minded about it and doing your best to diminish it. You say I'm exaggerating but you're doing the exact opposite, there is obviously a lot more going on than just jumping through two openings, as the lasers were constantly waving up and down meaning no opening was present for longer than a second, Leon had to analyze their paths and predict the openings appearance, and maneuver himself in such a way that his body would fall into the openings as the lasers raced by and the lasers would slide passed his body. He had less than a second to do this each time, his brain must process information at superhuman speeds.

I've explained in detail why exactly this is a superhuman feat, if you don't agree at this point than there is nothing more to discuss. Let's talk about the Tyrant dodging now.

What a lot of people don't realize about Tyrants is just how superhumanly fast they are. Their reflexes and reaction times are programmed to respond at superhuman speeds. They can perceive a missile being fired at them, and raise their arms from a stationary position, up in time to catch the missile in their fingers and then turn it back on the shooter.

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So this isn't just dodging any old giant monster. That would be impressive enough, given the sheer size, ferocity, power, and psychological factors all disadvantaging Leon. But no, on top of that, he is dancing around a creature with bonafide superhuman speed and reflexes, and not just that but pulling off uncanny Devil May Cry-type moves that half of which aren't even physically possible. Instead of running away from the giant monster like a normal person, Leon runs straight at it and literally swings himself around and through the Tyrant's legs while dodging punches, then somehow slides himself more than 20 feet across the rooftop while taking shots at the creature trying to catch up. He's making the Tyrant look like a complete moron. Then, after somersaulting back to his feet, in a maneuver that would make even the most over-the-top of animes do a double take, Leon dodges the Tyrant's uppercut, but instead of just avoiding it, he chooses to grab onto the fist and use it to propel himself stories into the air, so that he can take pop shots at the monster as he nosedives straight towards it, and despite being in midair where it should be impossible to dodge, he somehow flips over the Tyrant's incoming punch, uses his arm as a landing pad, while dropkicking his heel straight into the Tyrant's face hard enough to visibly hurt him!

That type of agility is not within the realm of peak humans. I used to put Leon on par with Batman -- not after that. This is Devil May Cry shit. His ability to maneuver himself and slide all over and counterstrike while trapped in midair, that is all superhuman shit.

This post is bait, so I hope no one ends up taking it serious.............

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#97 Posted by The_Hajduk (5849 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#98 Edited by SainguineXshadow (5251 posts) - - Show Bio

Leon stomps i say again Harley and Catwoman aren't going to faze him, watch Degeneration, Damnation and Vendetta they wouldn't replicate or tank the blows that he gets in any of those movies and the damn blows don't even appear to slow him down in the slightest.

Leon is Dante as a human with a different hair color.

Ironically Dante and Leon have special lines in Project X Zone 2 were Leon tells Dante that's some fancy shooting before questioning if he could shoot like that and Dante's response is i recommend the rainstorm (Technique where you come down from the sky raining bullets upon the opponent, Dante just adds a spin to it)