Legends Darth Vader vs Canon Palpatine

@americanspeeddemon: Tutaminis wise he only ever did blaster bolts from what I seen. His Lightsaber though is used for Lightning like Windu had. Vader has block Lightning as Anakin and as Vader with it. So he has that much defense to that.

@sirfizzwhizz: Thanks just wondering I thought he had only used it on lasers but i wasn't sure.

I'm not salty, I'm enjoying your humiliation. Vader doesn't beat Palpatine, I've knocked that out of the park while you've sat here trying to save face. Canon is not as far below Legends as is being overblown, and you can stop acting cool after being annihilated in the debate. You can also stop running around SW threads spouting complete and utter nonsense whilst acting like you actually know what you're talking about.

I know I won the argument when you pick on my grammar, means you have nothing else to attack me with,

Well, based on the fact that I picked on much more than just your grammar and also the fact that my comment about grammar was the very last thing in my post, I think I could pick on your intelligence at this rate, but I won't and have no need to. It's pretty clear this is another face-saving maneuver.

though like I care about my grammar on a website of fictional characters ;)'

It's not a big deal to me, but it adds to the rest of your fallacies, which results in a pretty humiliating show for you.

I accept your defeat.

You lost on every point and you decided to dismiss my points which you knew you couldn't debate against, and you continued making outrageously unsubstantiated remarks. Your defeat couldn't be clearer, and you "accepting my defeat" is just another instance of trying to forget the embarrassing horror show you just put on. I know what a "defeat" is, and yours was the epitome of it.

Well, they're not necessarily wrong (I'd say DE is just a case of writing as opposed to exaggeration, though).

Canon Vader defeats his master in a hard fought duel, Sidious wins all out due to being more powerful in the force.

Legends Vader loses all

This apparently...

Well, technically, even if he's more skilled, Vader lacks Sidious' speed and agility. That being said, the source seemed to account for Vader's slowness, which is remarkable. Not too sure how much stock I'd put into that anyway.

Also ROTJ luke outduels Sidious, especially when amped

@shootingnova: I already accepted your defeat. Canon Vader is by both ABC and quantifiable feats better than Canon Sidious. Vader in Legends is faster, as skilled, and as powerful in force knowledge, and force power.

I understand there is no reason for Canon Sidious to win other than fan boyish defenses. We are on the same page there :)

I understand the need to hide your shame, but you've already done so. It's becoming more and more of an embarrassment.

Canon Vader is by both ABC and quantifiable feats better than Canon Sidious. Vader in Legends is faster, as skilled, and as powerful in force knowledge, and force power.

Canon Vader is not more powerful than Canon Sidious, and he's clearly written as a superior to Legends Vader.

I understand there is no reason for Canon Sidious to win other than fan boyish defenses. We are on the same page there :)

Stop conceding. I've already accepted your concession.

@sirfizzwhizz: He's a better duelist but sidious is still the most powerful dark side user though he is wary of Vader's growing power

You stop conceding first!

@sirfizzwhizz: We can stop playing games now and stop responding to each other altogether. This whole "getting the last post in" thing is childish and unnecessary.

@shootingnova:

Agree to disagree.

@sirfizzwhizz: I knew I'd get that from you. lol

Yes, in Canon. Again Vader is stronger in legends, and is at his best RotJ unlike Canon Vader who is in his prime by Rebels. Sidious is the strongest Darksider in Canon universe is not saying much though when Vader is one of the strongest Darksiders in Legends which over shadow Canon Universe in power and feats.

@shootingnova: Debating with Whizz is always a pain, ain't it? You'll just end up repeating yourself and he'll spark baravado saying: "I right, your wrong".

That's why I say just laugh him off and say "Cheers" after my point was made clear.

@burnface:

Whaaaa? you're saying canon Vader does better than legends Vader? What are you smoking?

EU Vader should be more powerful

Legends Vader isn't stronger than Canon Sidious. FizzWizz has to be high to suggest that.

I'm still new to Star Wars so what's the difference between canon and legends?

@oldwasher: Legends is the original EU. It included multiple comics, novels and games spannig around two decades worth of material which included immense jedi power creep.

The new canon was established recently, it throws away all of the old canon to the dismay of many including myself as i love the force unleashed. It also changed the power levels of many by altering feats.

Your Jelly of my debate skills and unpleasant facts I bring up.

I'm just asking out of curiosity, but how does force resistance work? Their were certain times in the clone wars series that makes me question.

Like ventress able to force choke obi wan, and Skywalker despite either one being stronger then her, or maul who could force push, and hold obi wan despite him being stronger then either one of them. For the later he could have force held obi at anytime it seems so his brother could get a fatel hit in....

Force resistance is a BS fan made term. Its not in any SW Encyclopedic, Jedi Manual, or Book of the Sith I read. The only common sense thing is to realize some beings have resistance to Force, like say Vong and such, and Force users themselves should have as such, but in the end anyone can be Force Pushed, or knock around if they are not prepare to counter it with their own Force.

So feats of Character A pushing Character B is the worse arguments a SW fan can make as proof of Force superiority.

@sirfizzwhizz:

Your Jelly of my debate skills and unpleasant facts I bring up.

I'm pretty sure you have to have that so I can be jealous of it. Now take your strange outlooks somewhere else.

Generally, in combat, people place around them Force Barriers, protective Force powers, and generally have their protective Force aura making it harder for someone to overwhelm them with TK than it would to overwhelm a non-Force user. Now, this can be disrupted, and often is. Lucky/surprising shots, or cheapshots, can be made. Like when Lumiya threw Jacen, or Savage choked Asajj and Dooku, or Asajj choking a distracted Fay's heart slowly. It depends, really. In direct 1v1 combat, the one who overwhelms with the Force the most without circumstantial aid or the benefit of his opponent being distracted/hindered is the better Force user, or at least the better telekinetic. Simple as that.

@americanspeeddemon: ah ok thank you

@wollfmyth209: When you put it this way it seems like PIS whenever the jedi are having more trouble then they should against non force wielders. Since they can just TK them against a wall indefinetly and not have to bother chasing them down, or spam force push against fodder.

Oh no, its a burn!

@blackkaizer:

Well that depends. Most Jedi are of the moral to not abuse their Force powers in combat, since they can kill and injure. And a lot of the Jedi that face non Force sensitives are primarily duelists and aren't fans of chaining in Force pushes in combat.

It really just depends on whether he's hyper-energetic at the time or lazy. The former will see him unleash scan bombs, while the latter will be him dismissing points and calling people's arguments BS whilst showing just how little he knows about the subject he's debating.

I took the time to have the occasional debate with him. Couldn't say it was a fun experience but he got humiliated all the same.

Either one pounds the life out of ya.

@sirfizzwhizz: The force unleashed is no longer canon.

Sidious' best movie feat is throwing platforms from the senate chamber with ease and killing Windu with force lighting. Vader's best movie feat is using the force to attack Luke while in lightsaber combat.

Sidious' best clone wars feat is taking Maul and Savage at the same time. Maul has thrown an entire shuttle like it was nothing and Sidious' rag-dolled him.

Vader knew he was no match for Palpatine.

I stopped reading right there. This is LEGENDS Vader, as in EU mate, vs Canon Palpatine, as in Disney made material.

Darth Sidious wins easily. If he can take Maul (who is barley under Vader) and Savage at the same time easily, duel evenly with Yoda, kill 3 jedi masters in seconds, he would have no problem with Vader.

@sirfizzwhizz: the force unleashed game was never canon or apart of legends... only the book was. force powers were made to be over the top in the game so it would be more fun.

You realize that canon is not limited to the movies, right? You cannot separate Clone Wars and movie feats; they are the same level of canon now.

The game, book, and graphic novel occupied the same level of canon, which was C-canon. All three are now under the Legends banner, and have the same level of canon.

Yes it is part of Legends. Oy Vey. I can see there is no constructive debate to be had here with ya.

@jedixman: i know the clone wars and movies are the same level of canon. i just edited my comment because i remembered a clone wars feat.

the game and the book have obvious differences in them. the book makes much more sense with previous star wars feats and should obviously be the excepted version.

@sirfizzwhizz: the force unleashed game's story is a part of legends, but not the feats. if you want to use feats you have to use the book version. the game is an outlier.

Neither the game, book, or graphic novel have priority over one another. Really, the only conflicting element involves the PROXY dual near the end. The rest is rather consistent. Gameplay is almost never canon, but cutscenes, dialogue, and QTEs are canon.

Oy vey. Cut Scenes is feats. Game Mechanics are not. Now leave me alone.

@jedixman: starkiller pulling a star destroyer from space is an outlier and makes no sense. i believe in the book he guided a crashing star-destroyer down, which is still unrealistic but makes far more sense.

@sirfizzwhizz: calling those cut-scenes canon is an insult to the intelligence of star wars fans. the movies were obviously still canon when the game came out, yet it is obvious that no jedi or sith was that strong in the force. if they were they would of shown it. everything in legends used to be canon as long as it didn't contradict the movies. the force unleashed game cut-scenes contradicted the movies, making the feats meaningless.

@alextheboss: most of the feats in Force Unleash are no more "omg wth" than Darth Nihilus feats, or Revans, or Vitiates, or Lukes, or Sidious, or Caedus, or Yodas or many others in Legends. Also the Game and Book show the same thing. Star Destroyer falling and being guided at best by Galen. Whoopie doo.

I'm not sure why I am explaining this, goodmluck with SW debates on here with that kind set.

In fact I will end this for some statement of proof and not your own flawed bias that the game scenes are not legends canon and only the novel is Legends canon. I will wait for that statement by someone.

He didn't pull it down from space in any version. It was coming down regardless of his actions. That is explicit in the game and the book.

0:20 - A Star Destroyer comes crashing down at a sharp angle toward the planet.

Galen: "One of the Star Destroyers... it's coming right for me, I gotta get outta here."

Kota: "You'll never get clear in time. You need to pull it into the cannon."

The Star Destroyer didn't go there to attack, it was crashing. Look at the sharp angle; no Star Destroyer would do that to attack if it could control its velocity and descent. It couldn't. The reason Galen had to use TK is because the Star Destroyer was going to crash into him, specifically. He redirected it at the cannon in order to survive (and I believe it was said to be heading toward the Rogue Shadow, as well). There's no contradiction. In that video, the cutscene, the dialogue, and the QTEs are canon. The rest are not. The fact that it remained stationary for so long, and the fact that it seemed to be resisting him, can be chalked up to gameplay.

The graphic novel makes it even more clear. It is coming down at a sharp angle in flames.

EDIT: How the hell did I get dragged into a debate about this Star Destroyer nonsense again?

@sirfizzwhizz: in the game starkiller is shown to be on sidious' level. that makes no sense. yoda could barely move a x wing in the movies and he should be multiple times stronger than starkiller who does things like that with ease. one of the reasons legends was made non canon because it made no sense. some of legends was very well written, while some of it was crap that made no sense.

Don't act like you are intelligent when you say legends Vader can beat canon Sidious. The movies are still apart of the legends continuity and Vader states Sidious is stronger than him so he looses by statements. The only way Vader might have a chance is if you go buy feats only and no power scaling. Vader was fried by Sidous' lighting and it wasn't even directed at him.

@jedixman: I read someone else's comment who was talking about the force unleashed book and game differences. I never read the book so if I was wrong about that I'm sorry. But from what I've heard starkiller is more impressive in the game. in the game starkiller puts up a good fight against sidious, and i heard in the book he got stomped by sidious. i didn't read the book so i'm not sure.

starkiller still moved the star destroyer a lot himself. rahm kota even says rip it down in that scene, lol.