Legendary SSJ Broly (DBS) runs ToP gauntlet

he has no way of tagging UI Goku. stops there

Round 1: Broly smashes right through his shield. And it seems you are implying 17 is far above Golden Frieza and Gohan, which I disagree with.

Round 2: Dyspo was only dangerous in the ToP due to ring outs. In a life or death battle he wouldn’t be able to beating Gohan, Frieza, and definitely not Broly. All they have to do is a large AOE attack to hit Dyspo.

Round 3: Kale was later shown to be weaker than SSG Goku, she shouldn’t be this high on the list and Broly could probably beat her without ssj, but at the very least he would stomp once going ssj.

Round 4: Broly wins pretty easily if Vegeta could win.

Round 5: Vegeta already admitted he couldn’t beat Broly in a 1v1.

Round 6: Keflavik being above Vegeta and Toppo is questionable, but it doesn’t matter as she loses the same as they do.

Round 7: Goku won’t be able to hurt Broly, so Broly wins.

Round 8: Could go either way, but I’ll go with Broly since limit breaker Jiren is restricted.

Clears. Full power Jiren is not strong enough to defeat broly. With LB Jiren, it can go both ways..

UI Goku is Not MUI Goku. Broly win this.

He clears.

@comicgirl21: And UI omen Goku has no way of hurting Broly, while Broly can hit Goku with a large scale AOE attack. Goku would need mastered ultra instinct to beat full power Broly.

@yamiyodare: UI was never tagged. How do u imagine Broly ever putting him down?

"UI Goku is Not MUI Goku."

I think he stops at 7 as there are many powerful characters he has to encounter before the 7th round. At that point he would be super tired already.

Edit: He gets healed each round? clears.

I was talking about UI, not MUI. He was never tagged. Broly can't pass the round if he can't tag him. At best, it's stalemate. But not a win for Broly.

"Gogeta is a LOT below MUI and he was ragdolling Broly." NO.

This.

hahaha :D loled so hard at people saying Broly can beat fully powered Jiren. That guy one shot Goku in Blue KKx20 before he ever went into full power mode.

Broly aint got shit on him. Why? Because we know from daizenshuu that fusion dance multiplies AT MOST A+Bx10. (because it says fusion dance multiplies the combined power of both fighters A FEW/SEVERAL times. Which is a term used to describe numbers no higher than 10) In other words, it's comparable to kaioken x20, probably even weaker, here's the precise math:

If Goku in Blue has power of 10, his kaioken x20 has a power of 200. If Goku and Vegeta both have power of 10,their power after fusion dance is 10+10 (20) x 10 = 200. In other words Jiren can one shot the guy who beat Broly, without even going into full power.

So much for the debate HAHAHA xD the Broly wank is real.

@yamiyodare: pls just read post no.10, I wont repeat myself. UI has easily enough damage to put Broly down, and Goku can't be tagged by AoE, which was proven in his fight vs Kefla.

@comicgirl21:

Why? You have any proof that Gogeta is above Ultra Instinct? UI didn't have perfected attack potency, but he was still very powerful, and A LOT more powerful than Blue in damage. His kamehameha one shot Kefla out of her fusion and his kicks and punches were able to hurt Jiren, who could also no sell Blue

Ssj Broly was able to no sell a SSB galic gun kamehameha combo, and his full power is even higher than that.

There is no reason to believe Broly can no sell this to the point of never taking damage.

Goku doesn't have unlimited stamina, so he can't just keep spamming moves like that. Each time he does it, it would get weaker and he would become more tired, while Broly would still have power to spare.

No, he couldn't Kefla already tried that, she basically made a freakin RAIN of energy lasers and blasts and made huge AOE energy rays and she still couldn't tag Goku for shit, and Broly is a mindless beast basically, he would never even use his energy it that kind of efficient way, not that it matters if Goku can't be tagged by that anyway.

That wasn't a large scale AOE attack. A large scale AOE attack is like the one Broly used on SSB Goku that destroyed a large portion of the ice continent. So it is in character for Broly to use large scale AOE moves, so I'm not sure why you are saying he wouldn't do it.

MUI would be freakin overkill. Gogeta is a LOT below MUI and he was ragdolling Broly.

Where are you getting this? SSB Gogeta is stronger than MUI Goku if anything, at least when it comes to pure power.

@turr: nice calc! Yeah I think Broly is overhyped too. Thoughts on UI vs Broly?

Well UI was able to compete with Jiren even when it comes to sheer power, so obviously it shitstomps Broly.

If we know for sure that Gogeta Blue can beat Broly and that he is at best as strong as Blue KKx20, anything in the KKx20 Blue tier should be able to beat Broly. And we know that max power of RB Vegeta is oficially on that same level as max power of Goku's Blue kaioken, based on this quote:

Q: Is the Super Saiyan Blue Evolution that appeared in DBS original to the anime? And is this transformation portraying Vegeta as likewise growing beyond the realm of a God of Destruction (Beerus) in a manner different than Goku’s?

Ishitani: Vegeta’s evolved version of Blue is an anime original. Like you said, that form is the result of him mastering his strength in a different way than Goku. Strength-wise please think of it as about the same as Goku’s Blue Kaio-Ken.

So he should stop at RB Vegeta.

@turr: sorry but if you think fusion is anywhere near the power of a single fusee you dont know dragon ball at all.

Goku knew ssbkkx20 was useless he didn’t even bother with it against broly and went straight to fusing. while goku thought he had a chance with it against jiren.

SS gogeta is astronomically stronger than Goku ssbkkx20.

SS3 goku couldnt touch super buu and yet ss vegito destroyed super buu with no effort. Based off your claims ss3 goku should be stronger

Clears

@whatamiseeing: There are several things wrong with your post.

Why do you think Goku thought he had a chance against Jiren with KKx20? He was just trying the best he could, he didn’t have anything better than that so he had to at least give it a shot.

Based on what is SS Gogeta “astronomically stronger” than SSB KKX20? I believe he is stronger too, but not by a large margin lol.

SS Vegito destroyed Super Buu because of Potara Fusion, which is “astronomically stronger” than a Fusion Dance lol.

OT: Loses to Jiren.

Should be similar to Jiren in terms of raw power, but Jiren is vastly more skilled; Broly isn't going to land a proper hit. Stops there.

He may even stop at UI Omen at a stalemate, UI Omen isn't hurting him but I wouldn't be surprised if Broly can't manage to land a hit.

For the millionth time Broly isn’t close to Jiren at all

Ehh...except for the arm blade which he could have sliced them up almost immediately if it was a life or death battle.

If he can use his full power he def clears. Almost every movie villain is equal in power to whatever bad guy was out in the anime at that time

DBZ Movie 1- Garlic Jr = Raditz

DBZ Movie 2- Dr. Wheelo = Early Vegeta

DBZ Movie 3- Turles = First Form Frieza

DBZ Movie 4- Lord Slug = Second Form Frieza

DBZ Movie 5- Cooler slightly stronger than Final Form Frieza

DBZ Movie 6- Metal Cooler- Androids 17

DBZ Movie 7- Android 13- Android 16

DBZ Movie 8- LSSJ Broly- Perfect Cell

DBZ Movie 9- LSSJ Broly- Super Perfect Cell

DBZ Movie 10- Bio Broly- who knows

DBZ Movie 11- Janemba- Super Boo

DBZ Movie 12- Hirudegan- Super Gotenks Boo

DBS Battle Of Gods- Beerus- no one

ROF- No one

Broly- Jiren

@wolfrazer: Can you show me what arm blade you are talking about?

@alextheboss:

@wolfrazer: How does cutting up a fodder plant monster prove anything? Gold Frieza just does something like this and it's gg

Or Broly does something like this

Dypso has been shown being caught by large scale moves in the manga. Not to mention in the manga version the best thing he did was blitz ssj2 Goku and hold off 17 for a little while before he and a tired Toppo got toyed with by final form Frieza.

In the anime when his field of movement was limited he was weaker than Gohan, and he wasn't even able to damage final form Frieza, let alone Golden Frieza. His max light speed mode made him faster, but it was never stated his ki spiked, so if Frieza just does a ki barrier, Dyspo wouldn't even be able to break it.

I mean if ssj Broly couldn't even really damage Golden Frieza after an entire hour, what chance does Dyspo really have of killing him in an all out fight to the death? And if you still disagree I would be happy to have a CaV with you on this topic.

@turr: Like you said, kaioken and SSBE aren't a part of this movie, so how is it fare to use it to compare the anime to the movie? If we go by the manga, then SSB Goku and Vegeta were able to fight a tiny bit against Jiren, so Broly can easily be as strong as manga Jiren. If we go by the anime, and assume Goku and Vegeta just decided not to go Blue, and we assume Goku and Vegeta are about the same strength as they were in the ToP, I agree full power Jiren is stronger than Broly. I have Broly's max power at about 50x SSB, considering he was close to SSB level before going ssj. Max power Jiren should at least be around that as well.

@alextheboss: No need to go off, I'm not really caring much about this match. I'm just saying, Dyspo does have a way to kill, just because he used it against a monster doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective. Barriers are all well and good, but Frieza doesn't really seem to use it much while in combat from what I'm seeing.

Broly stops at or beats jiren since it isn’t limit breaker

Could go either way, posting jiren stomping goku in kkx20 in the beginning of the tournament means nothing because by the end goku in KK did not get one shot the same way.

If jiren takes him out early he should win, but since jiren can’t go LB Broly could overtake him since he was continuously getting stronger even in the end.

Clears with trouble at Goku and Jiren.

@wolfrazer:

No need to go off, I'm not really caring much about this match.

I wasn't, I was just explaining my position.

I'm just saying, Dyspo does have a way to kill, just because he used it against a monster doesn't mean it wouldn't be effective.

Maybe. And Dypso could arguably be better against some opponents than Frieza would be, but I don't think Broly would be one of them. I can't see Dypso lasting an hour against Frieza. Characters like 17 and Frieza who have good durability or stamina would be more likely to do well against Broly than Dyspo. Now if it was an enemy like Moro (the new bad guy in the Super manga), you could argue Dyspo would be a better matchup as he could possibly blitz before he uses his powers.

It's too bad they didn't know about Broly during the TOP. Replace, like, Krillin with Broly and the TOP would have been a cake walk for U7. Shin's such a terrible Supreme Kai that he didn't notice a fighter with GoD level power chilling out on an abandoned planet. Haha

@turr:

Because both are canon. So scaling can be applied, it's a simple fact. Both KK and SSRB exist in the same universe as Broly now. Goku and Vegita didn't use them because of PIS for the sake of movie's better storytelling, but probably we can even see KK Blue Goku go agianst Broly in the future anime.

Yeah, but the movie was made in a way so it could fit in with both continuities, so I'm not saying you can't consider KK and SSBE in your scaling, but abusing it is another matter.

WOW. That's ridiculous highball. If he was that strong, he would've one shot both Goku and Vegeta after transforming, and that didn't happen. Also obviously he would shit all over Gogeta too.

I think you are confused on what I said. I said MAX ssj Broly was 50x SSB. The one I'm talking about is the one that fought SSB Gogeta. The one that fought SSB Goku is 50x base and 5x Oozaru form imo.

You forget that base Broly got stomped by Vegeta SSG. Only after he took the power of great ape and sealed it in his body, he was able to match and surpass him. When he goes SSJ, he likely switches the great ape amp for the SSJ amp altogether. So it's not like you can scale his ape feats to SSJ with regular SSJ calc. Probably that's why ur calc is so much off.

I agree with you and that's what I meant. This is how my movie scale goes

base Goku/Vegeta: 1

ssj Goku/Vegeta: 5

base Broly: 8

SSG Goku/Vegeta: 50

Oozaru Broly: 80

SSB Goku/Vegeta: 100

ssj Broly: 400

ssj Gogeta: 500

max power ssj Broly: 4,000

SSB Gogeta: 10,000

Max power Jiren is a LOT more than 50xSSB... Like I shown above, he one shot 20xSSB without ever going serious. Hell, even without moving. That suggest a much bigger difference in power than just 5/2. More like 10 times that knowing DB.

That was beginning of ToP Goku, end of ToP Goku wouldn't go down that easy. And in dragon ball Z a 2x power advantage is usually enough to stomp. Vegeta was less than 2x stronger than Dadoria and he stomped him. Ssj Goku was a little more than 2x stronger than 50% Frieza and he stomped him.

Jiren would stomp Broly, just like he did Kale. I dont know if you noticed, but Kale is the same Legendary SSJ in the U6 that Broly is in U7. Just because Broly got a lot better animations, doesnt mean he is any stronger. Their top feats, their characteristics is all the same. They are superbuff, berserk, and endless have power, enough to even easily overpower Blue, which is both for Kale and Broly the top feat. It's EXACTLY the same. And Jiren one shot Kale in his casual state.

Broly blitzstomps first 5, still stomps next two and has a good match against Jiren bust still wins. Jiren needs LB for a chance to win imo.

@gaoron: you guys are so funny. I'd love a CaV with anyone who thinks Broly is above 100% Jiren. He absolutely no sells Royal Blue Vegeta who is stronger than a GoD, one shots KKx20 Blue Goku who is probably above Gogeta in power, and one shots Golden Frieza who Broly couldn't defeat in an hour. The easiest possible CaV for sure.

@turr:

Just because Broly got a lot better animations, doesnt mean he is any stronger.

You're right. Broly's better feats are what make him stronger. In his regular SSJ form he was superior to SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta, while LSSJ Kale showed in Episode 114 that she wasn't even superior to Exhausted SSG.

one shots KKx20 Blue Goku who is probably above Gogeta in power

Why? Base Gogeta was casually dodging and deflecting beams from Broly.

And SSJ Gogeta was able to match SSJ Broly.

and one shots Golden Frieza who Broly couldn't defeat in an hour. The easiest possible CaV for sure.

LSSJ Broly is far stronger than SSJ Broly. Frieza also got stronger after the ToP, and was not at his peak against Jiren.

Broly clears

Jiren and Goku give him a decent fight but Omen is limited and Broly he have a hard time with Jiren

Wow so many things wrong with a post this short. Stunning, let's roll, Johnny.

i like this turr guy

He stops at Kefla.

Goku explicitly said "we can't beat this guy alone", so the idea that him using Kaioken would be more effective than fusing into Gogeta is unsupported by Goku himself. In fact, Gogeta is more effective than Goku using Kaioken and Blue Evolution Vegeta fighting alongside each other, otherwise they would have done that and not gone straight to the fusion. If Vegeta thought Blue Evolution would be enough to stop Broly, he would have done that, because as is clearly shown, he hates fusing with Goku and only resorts to it when there are no other options available.

Pretty basic stuff.

Let's do more simple math. If people think KKx20B is stronger than Gogeta, then they have never even watched any of this. SSB Goku is weaker than Ikari Broly. The SSJ form is a 50x Multiplier. Which means, at a base minimum, Ikari Broly was 50x stronger when he turned SSJ. Meaning a 20xKK on top of Blue wouldn't mean jack since Goku would only get 20x stronger, whereas Broly is 50x stronger. Broly is still more than 2.5x stronger than 20xKKBlue Goku. At the very least.

KKx20Blue and BE were never going to measure up to SSJ Broly. Meaning he's already definitively stronger than GoD Toppo. Especially given Goku and Vegeta are stronger than they were during the ToP. And Broly's power was still increasing. Broly's FP/Legendary form pushed Gogeta into going straight to SSB. Not SS2, SS3 nor SSG. He went straight to Blue. SSG is easily 100x stronger than SS3. And SS3 is 8-10x SSJ (depending on your source). So SSG is 800-1000x stronger than SSJ, and SSB is 50x stronger than SSG. You could say Blue Gogeta is 50,000x stronger than Base Gogeta. And that's what he needed to overpower LSSJ Broly.

FP Jiren and MUI Goku don't even compare to that.

The only thing that makes me believe Broly might not clear is that Golden Frieza survived a hour long onslaught from Broly. Seemed more PIS then anything, but it happened.

Likely stops at Jiren, who I think should be slightly superior to Full Power Broly as of now.

@turr:

You completely miss the fact that the movie was not made for the anime audience.

This isn't supported by any kind of evidence and is irrelevant. Also, they showed flashbacks to and made plenty of references to the anime, including images of the other tournament fighters, references to the Black arc, and so on.

The 3 DBS movies are a trilogy that needs to be consistent on their own right. They didn't include Vegetas new Blue form or Goku's kaioken, because it would be HELLA confusing for anyone who didn't watch a bazillion episodes of an anime. And they want a movie to be easily applicable to general audience.

Arguments without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Why else would Whis say to Goku "you want to be a destroyer, isn't that why you are training?" I mean in the anime Whis ALREADY ASKED THAT GOKU, hell, even Beerus asked that himself, and Goku already said no. There is no reason to repeat that unless for movie only audience who are in the dark.

Nice conjecture, I guess? Lots of things were repeated in the movie, at times threatening to break the 4th wall, in order to catch people up on important details. So again, not an argument, no evidence, easily dismissed.

Another example is Whis saying "oh look , you CAN work together!" To Goku and Vegeta when they fuse. In the previous movie he states that if they work together, they would be unstoppable. But since that movie, Goku and Vegeta worked together COUTLESS TIMES, hell, they even fused before, and Whis witnessed them fighting side by side countless times during ToP. There is no reason for him to say such a bizzare thing, if not for the sole purposes of connecing previous and current movie to create an arc for the characters.

Whis has also said in the anime that if Goku and Vegeta could find a way to work together they would be unstoppable, and also made references to their teamwork when they fought Jiren side by side. So again, your theory that the movies are a self-contained trilogy is supported by nothing, and the "bizarre" references you think are only connected to the other movies also relate to a myriad of dialogue sequences from the anime, so even if I was to entertain your evidence-devoid argument, it would still make zero sense.

The absence of kaioken and royal blue has nothing to do with power. It has to do with the story, it's sheer PIS.

Again, there is no evidence for this, so it is easily dismissed.

If you try though, you can also easily explain that Goku didn't have enough energy left to use kaioken, because prolonged fight against Broly and using Blue already drained him from energy so kaioken would not have an effect, or would straight kill him.

Nonsensical. In the Black arc Goku was beaten to a pulp in and out of base repeatedly by Zamasu, and even after firing a kamehameha so powerful it left his arms numb, he was able to use kaioken in blue on Merged Zamasu. In the tournament of power arc, Goku went kaioken x20 with a spirit bomb, broke his limits with ultra instinct omen, fought for several episodes until being brought back into ultra instinct to break his limits even further, then fought Jiren extensively while using kaioken x20 yet again, then broke his limits for a third time and went into mastered ultra instinct... so the idea that after the comparatively light warmup that was his fight with Broly would prevent him from going kaioken x20, especially after the post-tournament of power zenkai and training he has under his belt... again, makes zero sense.

Either way, the calc works fine both on paper and with feats of both fusion dance and kaioken feats. You gotta do better then that.

If you want me to entertain your next post, come with evidence. Otherwise I will make good on my promise to dismiss everything you just said.

@turr:

Wow so many things wrong with a post this short.

Given your response and others posts in this thread, this is quite ironic.

Let's see them, big guy.

Sure. He tanked a punch from and knocked away SSJ Gogeta.

He really wasn't.

He was, as evidenced by him charging through a combination of Goku's Kamehameha and Vegeta's Galick Gun.

And them admitting Fusion was their only chance.

they were actually overpowering him quite easily right after entering Blue forms.

SSJ Broly? Do you have proof of this?

If I wasn't right, there would be NO WAY for Frieza to fight a LSSJ Broly for an ENTIRE HOUR

He didn't fight LSSJ Broly. He fought golden haired Broly/SSJ Broly. LSSJ Broly is the one with green hair.

SSJ Broly wasn't at Blue level. Not even close. Even LSSJ Broly was BARELY above Blue

This is incorrect. SSJ Broly overpowered Blue Tiers and LSSJ Broly stomped SSJ Gogeta.

He overpowered Goku and Vegeta by outlasting them as they got gradually weaker over time. There is no other explanation.

The explanation is that he is just plain stronger, and Frieza improved since the ToP.

It was her "controlled Berserk" form, which is completely different and much weaker then her LSSJ form

Do you have proof it was weaker? Tien said it was stronger while Krillin said she had the beserk power under control.

Because that's what daizenshuu says about fusion.

Do you have a scan of this? Daizenshuu also contains large amounts of retconned information.

What does this have to do with anything?

Base Gogeta dodging and deflecting those beams doesn't make sense if Base Gogeta is only 20X stronger than Base Goku/Vegeta.

And...? So what?

So it doesn't make sense if 20X SSJ Goku/Vegeta could replicate the feat.

Nobody's ever in their "peak" besides maybe at the beggining of the fight when they are fully healed or smh.

Exactly. Jiren never fought peak Frieza, while Broly did. It's a faulty comparison.

The fact is, Jiren one shot Golden Frieza without any need for LB, and LSSJ Broly couldn't beat him in an hour.

False equivalence. Frieza got stronger after the ToP and wasn't at his peak when he fought Jiren. LSSJ Broly never fought Frieza, but rather SSJ Broly.