Pretty sure Midora wins, but I'm not a Toriko expert. The only possibility Pandora has of winning is her Sovereignty ability stopping Midora's own abilities
Hmm if we don't take speed into consideration, I would give it to Midora. His application of Food Luck and Power Mimicry was very good. Also Hungry Space is very deadly
She's should be far faster. She was contending with the First Crown Prince, who can react to Ruyi Jingu expanding and was in turn trading blows with Mori. That would make both her and First Crown Prince MFTL+
She's should be far faster. She was contending with the First Crown Prince, who can react to Ruyi Jingu expanding and was in turn trading blows with Mori. That would make both her and First Crown Prince MFTL+
@marc_55: I understand that Midora is incredibly fast. That being said, I'm 100% sure he can't trade blows with Mori like FCP did, if fact he would get blitzed by Mori
@marc_55: I understand that Midora is incredibly fast. That being said, I'm 100% sure he can't trade blows with Mori like FCP did, if fact he would get blitzed by Mori
I disagree. What are the feats that imply Lee is faster?
I disagree. What are the feats that imply Lee is faster?
How so?
Ugh, I hate relying on scaling so much, especially when it comes to speed. But that's what we have to do in this case. You see, Jin Mori himself is MFTL, and his staff is FTL as well for the moon feat. Soo-Jin was capable of reacting too and keeping up with FCP (who fought on par with Mori and reacted to his staff) so she should be in the same speed league as them. Not to mention she fought Mori herself, while both of them were depowered.
I think you got the wrong idea, I'm not trying to get too deep into a speed debate, I only think she's faster than him. I was actually planning on using her in a CAV in the near future, so I made this thread to see where people put her at in terms of power. I want to see the arguments people have on whether she can beat Midora or not
@highaccuser: @justsomerandomkid: Hmmm you're about the sovereign, but when she was extremely depowered (without Pandora active) she was fighting Mori and their blows were visible from space:
And then there's the kick thing:
Gallery
Also is there anything stopping her from sealing his powers?
Don't see why not, as he casually counter blitzed Joie, completely unnoticed, killing him 8 times over. This being the same Joie that could casually react to Derous' Extra-Dimensional Laser.
He also could keep up with Final Form Neo, who could feel a second passing as if it were a month, before he fully evolved. I'd say MFTL is pretty clear and in range. Not to mention far weaker characters being casually FTL.
I disagree. What are the feats that imply Lee is faster?
How so?
Ugh, I hate relying on scaling so much, especially when it comes to speed. But that's what we have to do in this case. You see, Jin Mori himself is several million times FTL, and his staff is MFTL as well for the moon feat.
By your admission, she's slower than him. So this wouldn't apply to her, and some of Jin's best speed feats are in his Speed Form.
Soo-Jin was capable of reacting too and keeping up with FCP (who fought on par with Mori and reacted to his staff) so she should be in the same speed league as them. Not to mention she fought Mori herself, while both of them were depowered.
That's pretty vague, but I'm not sure why the above feat makes her faster anyway.
I think you got the wrong idea, I'm not trying to get too deep into a speed debate, I only think she's faster than him.
Right, and when you make an assertion, someone asking for proof should be no issue. That's all this is, me asking for proof.
I want to see the arguments people have on whether she can beat Midora or not
@marc_55: She doesn't have any quantifiable speed feats (although neither her or Midora do) so for both of them it's just scaling and speculation at this point. Providing "proof" is just scaling, and debates like that aren't really my style
And to be fair, with or without speed form Mori would blitz anybody in Toriko (though he'd probably need to remove his limiters)
@marc_55: She doesn't have any quantifiable speed feats (although neither her or Midora do) so for both of them it's just scaling and speculation at this point. Providing "proof" is just scaling, and debates like that aren't really my style
Yet, you made the assertion she was surely faster. Also, sometimes being faster doesn't rely on quantifiability.
And to be fair, with or without speed form Mori would blitz anybody in Toriko (though he'd probably need to remove his limiters)
Don't see why you're so sure, but it doesn't matter either way. Jin is certainly >> Lee. There are abilities that can make blitzing near impossible in Toriko, Midora has almost too many, and he's a happy spammer.
@marc_55: Maybe I'm missing something... Can you refresh me on his best speed feats? Because he'd have to be MFTL to just as fast as her, and none of the feats you mentioned are quite at the MFTL lvl
And yea I guess bringing Jin in wasn't relevant. I don't know whether you've caught up to the latest arc in GoH, but his feats from the King and his battle with Satan is far faster than anything in the verse that's been shown
Speed arguments aside, who do you think wins? Pandora's hax is quite good too, it might not be on the same level as Gormet Luck and Minority World, but she can manipulate diseases, toxins, and poisons, and affect the laws of physics as well. Not to mention she's a reality warper with The Sovereign)
@marc_55: Maybe I'm missing something... Can you refresh me on his best speed feats? Because he'd have to be MFTL to just as fast as her, and none of the feats you mentioned are quite at the MFTL lvl
Along with the above, Starjun's 3rd eye can track and react to MFTL things, and he had to stack back channels just to keep up with Joie. While Midora casually outdoes him against Joie and Neo, who could stop the 8 Kings the moment they began attacking. Making them appear to be standing still, despite being casually FTL themselves.
You said you'd prefer not to get into this, so we can end it here. I'm mostly waiting for some arguments to be made, anyway.
And yea I guess bringing Jin in wasn't relevant. I don't know whether you've caught up to the latest arc in GoH, but his feats from the King and his battle with Satan is far faster than anything in the verse that's been shown
@god_vulcan: None of that is really on Midora's level.
Really? I don't feel like you're taking into account all of Soo Jin's abilities... what about her sealing powers? Pandora has the ability to seal almost any kind of power with a glance, whether magical or physical. And can't she seal physical stats like with King Uma?
@marc_55: Midora being MFTL is possible but certainly not MFTL+. And I didn't say Soo Jin is definitely faster, in fact I don't want to bring speed debate here. Also I said Midora would win since his hax abilities have better feats
@god_vulcan: Sealing doesn't work on physical stats. That's not what she did to Uma, she just infected her with disease and Uma has no feats close to Midora's level. Sujin didn't do this to the King either.
She didn't deflect the FCP's punch she just dodged it. Natak basically scoffed at her.
@marc_55: Midora being MFTL is possible but certainly not MFTL+.
This depends more on what you take those to mean, as the difference between the two can be either miniscule, or larger than the difference between Light Speed and MFTL.
And I didn't say Soo Jin is definitely faster,
I never claimed you did, I was asking what you meant.
in fact I don't want to bring speed debate here.
Then I'll leave it alone, as I did with Vulcan.
Also I said Midora would win since his hax abilities have better feats
Well, I wasn't really discussing who wins, just trying to understand your comment about speed.
@god_vulcan: Yeah. That attack is actually for completely reflecting the attack back at the person who made it. But the FCP's (think it was him from memory) casual attack nearly hit her, and was only barely deflected. Midora going all out would be well above a casual FCP attack, so I don't see the reflection being that useful.
@god_vulcan: Sealing doesn't work on physical stats. That's not what she did to Uma, she just infected her with disease and Uma has no feats close to Midora's level. Sujin didn't do this to the King either.
True statements. But it's not like Midora has disease resistance feats, though I agree he's far above Uma
She didn't deflect the FCP's punch she just dodged it. Natak basically scoffed at her.
No, she deflected it. She attempted to reflect back at him entirely but she can managed to push it to the side
The funny part is that Midoras best feats are in a severely weakened state and those blows you see going into space and covering a big chunk of the planet. Ya those are all Earth enders. The only reason the Toriko planet is intact is due to various reasons one being it is comprised of a material that is like vibranium in its properties.
@justsomerandomkid: exactly I love my boye midora and I'm pretty sure if TORIKO was given more love as a seriesMitsutoshi Shimabukuro would have continued.
He even talked about how TORIKO was supposed to continue expanding on the universe.
While with sujin Lee
Her pandora's box is BROKEN it not only works on standard fodder but was actually used against the very GODS Themselves 🤣.
The CONCEPTs of death,disease's,nightmare's FEAR, PAIN ETC... was given to the gods they never experienced that shit.
Zeus himself never knew the concept of having covid and sujin introduced it.👍
On top of that she can bring her OPPONENTS down to a lower plane of exsistence.
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