Lady Shiva and Black Canary Vs Batman and Nightwing

@lenzo0: you just said “Nightwing >> Lady Shiva”

You realize Shiva has defeated Batman more than once right?

@lenzo0: Oracle (someone that knows martial arts better than you). Described Canary as “better than Bruce” as I’ve posted above.....

Additionally Nightwing has been beaten by so many other martial artists it’s funny. One of which being Deathstroke....so no he’s not second after Batman, not even close. He’s not even top ten

Also you obviously have no idea who Connor Hawke is and what he can do. Richard Dragon (someone also superior to Nightwing) described Connor as the next best martial artist he has seen next to Shiva. Connor is far above Nightwing as is Shiva who has constantly been stated to be above Batman.

I’ve never seen such Batman and Nightwing wank

@lenzo0: oh and by the way Cassandra Cain is also far above Nightwing and Canary has fought her before as well.

I can name 7-8 fighters that are all more skilled than Nightwing, and I can name 1-2 that are superior to Batman

@thevoidofdeath do you know anything about shiva? i only know a little about black canary from injustice

@lenzo0: I’m done with this debate because of your rude implications like me hating Batman and shit. Completely unnecessary and I hate when people on vine pretend they know me. You don’t know me so stop acting like it.

I love Batman and Nightwing and they were the superhero’s that’s got me into comics in the first place (Nightwing was my favorite superhero from when I was 6-14 years old). You know nothing about me, and iirc you are not allowed to make drug references on vine, I could be wrong though

Shiva is constantly stated to be the best fighter in the DC universe, and has been stated numerous times to be Bruce’s superior. Shiva has only been beaten by Cassandra Cain, who is the best martial artist in the dc universe

1) Cassandra

2) Shiva

3) Deathstroke

4) Batman

@lenzo0: Also again Connor Hawke is superior to Nightwing. Statements are feats themselves and he has no anti feats to disprove the statements. The only way to disprove statements is by having anti feats, which he does not.

Canary defeated someone that gave Connor trouble, that one feat already puts her above Nightwing. Add in her Shiva and Bruce level statements and she’s more than above him.

@emmafrostxmen: is connor hawke hawkman?

@oraclefromhel: Na, he was like the second green arrow

@emmafrostxmen: You are done with this debate because you simply can't continue and can't provide me something new. You only recurrent the same things. And, I never assumed I knew you. Why bring that up?

You take Oracle's words for granted on Canary being superior to Batman. She was overstating. Batman is superior to Black Canary in every way imaginable.

Shiva being stated the best fighter in DC is a stretch, considering the likes of Red Hood, Batman, Richard, Cass have given her trouble.

Cass is nowhere near at being the best martial artist in DC.

Team Bruce

1) Deathstroke

2) Batman

3) Nightwing

4)Tim Drake

5)Shiva/Cassandra Cain

@lenzo0: you actually did pretend you knew me. Saying I know nothing of Batman and Nightwing is assuming my knowledge and therefore me as a person. Also I’ve provided scans and evidence as well as reasons why the feat is impressive above. You haven’t done anything.

I’ve never pretended that I knew you. I’ve done the opposite actually. I tried to remind you of feats, rather than assuming your knowledge like you did to me. I was respectful to you, and you instead retaliated by assuming I know nothing about any of the characters in this thread. I don’t want to continue to debate with disrespect people that assume their knowledge is superior to their peers despite an apparent bias.

I dare you to go make a Shiva Vs Nightwing thread and you’ll see how ridiculous your beliefs are.

@emmafrostxmen:

1. No I didn't? I thought you left the thread and wasn't gonna bother anymore.

2. You stated Oracle knew martial arts better than me. Again, why bring that up? What does that even have to do with the actual thread, better yet what does this have to do with Canary and her skill?

3. Unlike you, I won't be pulling off something like that. I am not that pathetic and inept.

@oraclefromhel: sadly, this is not my area of expertise:(

@lenzo0: 1) Wrong I posted like 6 scans at the very beginning of the thread. Canary reacted to a blitz from Black Alice using Shazam’s full powers, and kept up with Black Adam in combat speed. Black Canary >>> Nightwing in speed

2) I don’t have to present any more evidence. Go back to my first post on the thread. You haven’t countered a single feat or statement there. Black Canary was explicitly stated to be above Batman, and equal to Shiva

3) You most certainly do not know vastly more about martial arts than me (again knowledge assumptions and superiority complex), and you’ve proven to be a hypocrite by again assuming your knowledge is superior. You can never and will never have a good debate on the site if you continue to do this. Counter my scans earlier in the thread then we’ll talk. Additionally I never assumed your knowledge ever. I said Oracle’s knowledge is superior to yours. Any comic book martial artist will know more than a real world person as I’m sure you’d agree lol.

4) Do not insult me or I will flag and block you, not because I’m sensitive, but because I don’t have time to waste on someone who is going off topic and saying shit like: “ Unlike you, I won't be pulling off something like that. I am not that pathetic and inept“. Completely unnecessary, and I haven’t insulted you a single time.

just gonna leave this here for anyone who actually thinks Canary can even hold a candle to Batman based on that ridiculous Barbra statement

@warlockmage: Batman has gadgets and Canary has her cry that make that statement irrelevant. We have no idea what they were talking about.

Batman could tear gas her just as easily as she could scream. For all we know that has no bearing on martial arts

@warlockmage: additionally there are numerous statements that state she is equal to Shiva so she is Batman level either way in skill

Additionally her feat of defeating Rabbit twice is also a Batman level skill showing because Rabbit gave Connor Hawke trouble. Connor Hawke is stated to be Shiva’s equal in skill as well

Favor the ladies slightly on pure skill, for duo to win they use superior teamwork and smarts

@indomitableregal: well that you can move on. I’ve been nothing but respectful to you, yet you reply like I’ve ever gave you a thought. I didn’t even know you existed on the site until now, kinda sad

I know you knew me though. Glad you lost the debate and conceded by failing to prove anything.

@emmafrostxmen: Well you're either a liar, or you have a much shorter memory than me. Actually, I'm very sure it's both. Regardless, feel free to post (and/or delete) whatever you want after this. I've already far exceeded the amount of time anyone should give you.

@emmafrostxmen: 1) Wrong I posted like 6 scans at the very beginning of the thread. Canary reacted to a blitz from Black Alice using Shazam’s full powers, and kept up with Black Adam in combat speed. Black Canary >>> Nightwing in speed.

You can't even read some of the scans and some of that is pure PIS.

I don’t have to present any more evidence. Go back to my first post on the thread. You haven’t countered a single feat or statement there. Black Canary was explicitly stated to be above Batman, and equal to Shiva

I couldn't careless if she was stated to be Shiva equal. Again statements. Has she shown to be, no. You can't use that as a measuring stick or scaling to say she is equal to Batman or above him when she isn't. It's really not that hard to understand.

You most certainly do not know vastly more about martial arts than me (again knowledge assumptions and superiority complex), and you’ve proven to be a hypocrite by again assuming your knowledge is superior. You can never and will never have a good debate on the site if you continue to do this. Counter my scans earlier in the thread then we’ll talk. Additionally I never assumed your knowledge ever. I said Oracle’s knowledge is superior to yours. Any comic book martial artist will know more than a real world person as I’m sure you’d agree lol.

Good for you.

Do not insult me or I will flag and block you, not because I’m sensitive, but because I don’t have time to waste on someone who is going off topic and saying shit like: “ Unlike you, I won't be pulling off something like that. I am not that pathetic and inept“. Completely unnecessary, and I haven’t insulted you a single time

Never insulted you in any way. Wanna flag my posts? Go for it. Block me as well if you want.

@lenzo0: 1) I can debate anywhere I want and I don’t have to stick to my word when talking to you

2) Canary was not amped at all it was regular Canary and she reacted to Black Alice’s Shazam level blitz and then used her Canary Cry to harm her. Additionally her and Black Adam’s clash was also entirely unamped lol. Black Adam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nightwing. You’ve proved nothing, and I’ve posted these feats, you’ve failed to provide actual evidence and instead you just say stuff. Post scans please otherwise I have no reason to take your word into account

3) Yes she has shown to be. She defeated someone that gave Connor Hawke trouble as I’ve stated. Connor Hawke was stated to be Shiva’s equal. Additionally Canary stomped Shiva’s mom, and Shiva’s mom is the person that trained Shiva in the first place. Canary ~ Connor ~ Shiva. I believe Shiva is above her, but saying Canary doesn’t have feats to back up the statement is a lie as I’ve proven before. Have you even looked at my scans?

4) Anybody that just says shit and doesn’t post scans is automatically uninteresting to debate with. I at least backed up everything I said with scans and proof, you’ve failed to do this. Additionally you’ve been actively insulting me during this debate, if anyone was making this unfun it’s you and not me (this is irrefutable, you can’t insult someone then expect the debate to be fun)

5) Again you don’t know me, and my opinion on fictional characters skill level does not equal my knowledge of martial arts. Fictional characters perform martial arts moves that are in most cases physically impossible to replicate.

6) I am far from ignorant, you're the one that lied (saying Canary was amped lmfaooo), doesn’t provide evidence, has a superiority complex, and spouts useless off topic insults.

7) Telling you to go make a thread that pertains to this topic isn’t off topic....adding that nobody would agree with you about Nightwing > Shiva is a fact.

8) you did insult me and I’ve quoted it above. Stop lying when the evidence is deadass right above you.

9) I’m not going to block you because you stopped with the insults. I don’t mind getting insulted, but I get bothered when they have nothing to do with the debate and are just a complete waste of time to read.

OT: Shiva beats Batman after an amazing fight, and Canary beats Nightwing in a great fight

@emmafrostxmen: I can debate anywhere I want and I don’t have to stick to my word when talking to you

Don't care.

Canary was not amped at all it was regular Canary and she reacted to Black Alice’s Shazam level blitz and then used her Canary Cry to harm her. Additionally her and Black Adam’s clash was also entirely unamped lol. Black Adam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nightwing. You’ve proved nothing, and I’ve posted these feats, you’ve failed to provide actual evidence and instead you just say stuff. Post scans please otherwise I have no reason to talk your word into account

So she can now go up against Black Adam? Good b8.

Yes she has shown to be. She defeated someone that gave Connor Hawke trouble as I’ve stated. Connor Hawke was stated to be Shiva’s equal. Additionally Canary stomped Shiva’s mom, and Shiva’s mom is the person that trained Shiva in the first place. Canary ~ Connor ~ Shiva. I believe Shiva is above her, but saying Canary doesn’t have feats to back up the statement is a lie as I’ve proven before. Have you even looked at my scans?

Again you can't use that as a measuring stick and put her equal to Shiva or Batman.

Anybody that just says shit and doesn’t post scans is automatically uninteresting to debate with. I at least backed up everything I said with scans and proof, you’ve failed to do this. Additionally you’ve been actively insulting me during this debate, if anyone was making this unfun it’s you and not me (this is irrefutable, you can’t insult someone then expect the debate to be fun)

Lmao.

Again you don’t know me, and my opinion on fictional characters skill level does not equal my knowledge of martial arts. Fictional characters perform martial arts moves that are in most cases physically impossible to replicate.

Lol.

I am far from ignorant, you're the one that lied (saying Canary was amped lmfaooo), doesn’t provide evidence, has a superiority complex, and spouts useless off topic insults.

Sigh.

Telling you to go make a thread that pertains to this topic isn’t off topic....adding that nobody would agree with you about Nightwing > Shiva is a fact.

Why do you even bother brining that up when debating about this?

you did insult me and I’ve quoted it above. Stop lying when the evidence is deadass right above you

How is calling you inept, an insult? More so, I was commenting on your arguments.

@indomitableregal: Neither am I at this point. Also, Dick and Bruce have trained together for years.

@EmmaFrostXmen: Batman rights superhuman with martial arts skills (such as Bane and Deathstroke), on a regular basis. And anybody who takes th time to study Bane and research his feats will tell you that he is no pushover.

The insults being thrown around left and right are annoying. I don't care if you support either side, but you should be more respectful to your peers.

@emmafrostxmen: He never said anything about you.

I'm making sure. I take my ability to be respectful during debates very seriously

Black Alice (Using Shazam's powers):

Giganta:

Breaks Metal:

And she was able to fight Cassandra Cain who is superior to everyone here (Not that Canary is, but her holding her own against Cass is a top tier skill feat):

@emmafrostxmen: Wow. That is just stuoid. Please stop with the black Alice thing. Giganta was beaten by canary cry. And Bane isn't that stupid.

-Bane was outmatched by her skill as shown.

-Giganta was defeated by the Canary Cry (all I said was that she fought her), I was showing that she was capable of flipping over her hand and tactically getting closer to her head. That required speed, agility, and high intellect.

-I will not stop with the Black Alice "thing", because it shows how quick her reflexes are.

@emmafrostxmen: Bane would knock her head off, then say, I break your skull, I break you!

He didn't.... he failed to do exactly what you said, and instead got outskilled and fodderized by Canary

thank you. you're so nice <3

Batman & Nightwing

@emmafrostxmen: That obviously has to do with writers not knowing enough about bane.

@sirkaboom11: no lol.

Shiva beats both, canary holds off batsy and beats night wing.

Lol at the clowns thinking dick has a chance against Dinah.

@emmafrostxmen: You're the only reasonable user on this thread. The clownery is real on here.

I got team Batfam in a really good one.

Shiva can take on Bruce... Dinah can hold Dick off until Shiva comes to help her and beats his ass...

@aystarr said:

Nah not reasonable at all.

honestly i do have as well Dinah above Dick (still find it debatable tho)... but not by a large margin... I have them like this:

Shiva>>Bruce>Dinah>=Dick

I agree with Thier OT, Bruce vS Dinah is Very debatable although I'm most likely to back Bruce, nightwing is a tier below them, he's good but most of his impressive feats always have him switch between long range/mid-range (with gadgets) and close range. Against a canary who is his superior's level and has more experience in full CQC and has fought more notable opponents, he falls short, like, really short. Now the difficulty for her beating him can be argued but him beating her is just impossible.

@aystarr: It's not debatable, Bruce would stomp her, enough said. Next, Dick trained under Bruce as Robin, And as Agent 37, he managed to defeat David Cain in Batman and Robin Eternal. Dick has impressive feats such as jumping mid air and avoiding gunfire from 27 shooters like nothing. Threw his gun hard enough that it ricochetedoff a telephone pole and KO'ed someone. Held the jaws of an orca using nothing but his pure upperbody strength. Done well against Shiva, despite having two broken ribs and she even later compliments his skill. Dick has managed to beat Red Hood, despite being electrocuted, gassed by scarecrows fear gas, taking bat tranquilizers to the face. He has also defeated Shrike as well. Casually caught a scientist's fist who was pumped on a serum that increased the users strength. He doesn't fall short and saying he is out of their league is b8.Canary is not superior, and Emma taking Oracle's statements seriously saying Dinah is Shiva level is wrong and it can't be used as a measuring stick. I don't know why people hold Dinah in such a high regard.

@lenzo0: i think you're overhyping nightwing, could you post some scans?