Lady Shiva and Black Canary Vs Batman and Nightwing

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JadeAzr

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Edited By JadeAzr

Poll Lady Shiva and Black Canary Vs Batman and Nightwing (42 votes)

Lady Shiva and Black Canary 38%
Batman and Nightwing 62%

Rules

  • Morals Off
  • Street Clothes
  • Hand to Hand Only
  • No Canary Cry
 • 
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psi-bite234

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Lady shiva is the MVP but Canary is the weaklink so this could go either way honestly

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geekryan

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Lady Shiva can beat Batman while Black Canary holds off Nightwing

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EmperorZod

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Im honestly pretty sure shiva can fight off both nightwing and bruce.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Lady shiva is the MVP but Canary is the weak link so this could go either way honestly

Canary has defeated Rabbit, someone stated to have near Shiva level skills, and he was giving Connor Hawke trouble:

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Canary defeated Shiva's mother, who while old still oversaw Shiva's training:

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Stated to be above Batman level by Oracle (someone who knows Bruce very well):

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Fodderized Green Arrow:

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Stated to be Shiva's equal:

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Being able to contend with Cassandra Cain:

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Canary was capable of reacting to Black Alice using Shazam's powers (Alice takes the full capabilities of whoevers powers she is using):

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Your only argument for Nightwing being more skilled than Black Canary is him performing better against Deathstroke, but given the plethora of statements and feats Canary has placing her as a peer of Deathstroke, Batman, Shiva, and Cassandra Cain she has more than enough feats to call the Deathstroke fights low showings/PIS as she is more than capable of giving Slade a great fight via the feats above, as is Nightwing (as he has done). Canary is above Nightwing in everything except agility via superior consistency in both feats and statements (aside from the aforementioned Deathstroke inconsistency).

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WorldsGreatest

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Damn

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Spite, Batman solos

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#10  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@lord_tenebrous: without gear? In street clothes?

Shiva alone has defeated him before, and Canary is superior to Nightwing

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Lord_Tenebrous

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Lord_Tenebrous

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#14  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@lord_tenebrous: wait seriously what? You actually think Batman can solo? Without gear? In a “spite” match?

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comic_book_fan

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bruce and shiva are about equals either could win just depends on who slips first i would give the slightest edge to bruce because his physical stat edge but canary is a good deal better than nightwing i mean the gap is way bigger than i originally thought and if she is able to aid shiva bruce is done

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King-Ragnar

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#16 King-Ragnar  Online

Going by PC versions, Dinah is pretty much outclassed by everyone here, either Bruce or Grayson trounce her,then they beat Shiva. Post Flashpoint is more or less the same.

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TurtleTortoise

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Batman is the mvp

Nightwing is 2nd place

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Koays

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Shiva....is a monster.

The only question is whether Dinah can beat Dick.....that's the real match decider because if she cant then Dick and Bruce could teamwork themselves to a win over Shiva.

As of now I lean Team Shiva

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Cybernetics

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Team 1

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Vertigo-

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#20  Edited By Vertigo-

@emmafrostxmen

Canary has placing her as a peer of Deathstroke, Batman, Shiva, and Cassandra Cain she has more than enough feats to call the Deathstroke fights low showings/PIS as she is more than capable of giving Slade a great fight via the feats above

Except when multiple showings disagree with you, this kind of argument becomes invalid. Dixon,Meltzer and Winnick wrote Canary getting humiliated by Deathstroke very consistently. Going off the feats you've posted, none of the skill feats match up to being able to take on Slade. Slade has already dismantled Oliver alongside Canary herself under Winnick, demolished Batman multiple times under writers like Wolfman and Dixon, beat Cassandra herself (writer escapes me), and Shiva just doesn't stack up, as she's outright lost to Cassandra Cain (once she got over her death wish), and has so many other low showings (looking at Tim Drake here). I'm not gonna touch the Black Alice instant, since you and I both know that Slade has way better reaction speed feats then that, and that neither of us should take street tiers reacting to higher tier characters with super speed as anything consistent, which would apply to Canary reacting to Captain Marvel.

FTR, Nightwing is equally incapable of taking on Deathstroke either, as Slade has humilated Grayson god knows how many times over the years. Using Slade here is just bad, as he's slapped down almost everyone here over the years multiple times. Bad measuring stick

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@vertigo-: that wasn’t the point at all. In a different thread Psy was saying how Nightwing has given Deathstroke “a better fight” than Canary has. Which is true, but as I’ve pointed out Canary has consistently been portrayed around the level of Shiva and Batman

It doesn’t really matter than Slade has “smacked” the people here, I’m not debating for him because he’s not in this thread, I was comparing their fights against him and pointing out that it’s inconsistent (and basically Nightwing doing well is PIS)

Canary has more than enough hype and feats to place her a tier above Nightwing in martial arts

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Vertigo-

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@emmafrostxmen: You specifically said:

she has more than enough feats to call the Deathstroke fights low showings/PIS as she is more than capable of giving Slade a great fight via the feats above

This is what I was responding to. When Slade has beaten Black Canary 4 times, twice when she had help, calling it PIS/low showings just doesn't work.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@vertigo-: Her getting fodderized by Slade is a low showing/PIS

Batman has numerous times over given Slade a great fight. I’m not sure why Canary (who has been compared to Batman like 10 times) wouldn’t be able to do the same if Slade was stripped of his gear

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Vertigo-

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#24  Edited By Vertigo-

@vertigo-: Her getting fodderized by Slade is a low showing/PIS

Consistency disagrees. She has gotten blitzed and blag bagged under Meltzer, Stomped twice under Winnick, and stomped again when she had help from Huntress and Lady Blackhawk under Dixon. At this point, you have nothing to actually argue against it

Batman has numerous times over given Slade a great fight. I’m not sure why Canary (who has been compared to Batman like 10 times) wouldn’t be able to do the same if Slade was stripped of his gear

Batman has also gotten his butt kicked by Slade. Off the top of my head, Slade has 7 shotted him under Wolfman when he wasn't even trying to fight him, and Dixon (who's written damn near every member of the Bat family for years and has written Deathstoke has well), had Slade 3 shot Batman, then 1 shot Batman back to back in the same issue, both of which had Batman outright surprise attack Slade to begin both fights and had nothing to do with gear.

Not that I even need to discuss Batman at all, because Slade has demonstratably had Dinah's number since day 1. Demonstratably. Arguing otherwise literally goes against on panel evidence

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Whathappened

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#26 Whathappened  Online

@vertigo-: Her getting fodderized by Slade is a low showing/PIS

Batman has numerous times over given Slade a great fight. I’m not sure why Canary (who has been compared to Batman like 10 times) wouldn’t be able to do the same if Slade was stripped of his gear

Batman is fodder to Slade, him giving a good fight is PIS due to Batman fanboyism. Weakened Slade without any superhuman stats still fodderized Batman, which is absolutely pathetic.

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El_mago

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Team 2 do to being morals off

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@vertigo-: you’re literally missing the point of my debate with Psy. I’m saying given that Canary has more consistently good feats than Nightwing she should logically perform better against Slade

Debating for Slade stomping anyone in this thread is irrelevant as he has done that before. I brought this up because Psy has stated that Nightwing has done better against Slade so he’s therefore better than Canary despite the Nightwing Vs Slade fight obviously being PIS

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Vertigo-

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@emmafrostxmen: you literally argued that Slade's 4 fights against Canary should be discarded due to being low showings, or that you think they are PIS. When the fact that it's happened multiple times, with Slade stomping her every single time proves otherwise. I could care less about any other fact.

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King-Ragnar

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#30 King-Ragnar  Online

Trying to compare either Dinah or Grayson to Slade is pointless and invalid because he's trounced the latter 6 times and the former 4 times.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#31  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@vertigo-: Well I agree with you then

What I’m saying right now is Nightwing’s feat should then be disregarded as PIS as Dinah is superior to Nightwing.

I’m not trying to compare anyone to Slade, my purpose of bringing him up was to say that while they would both lose Dinah should have performed better than Nightwing which is the part I meant to call PIS

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WorldsGreatest

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@emmafrostxmen: I haven’t read a DC comic in my life.

But I hear Lady Shiva is one of the strongest CQC fighters and Sara is a meta human so that should negate whatever skill her opponent has,assuming they can’t close the distance.

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Lenzo0

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Batman and Nightwing. Nightwing is second, only to Batman in fighting skills, and also is the fastest one here. Teamwork would be on point and they have the stat advantage as well.

The Dynamic Duo Wins

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@worldsgreatest: well this fight is just hand to hand so no Canary Cry (her scream)

Also her name in the comics is Dinah Lance, and as I’ve proven she is already more skilled than Nightwing

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IndomitableRegal

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Hm. Well Shiva is MVP here, but Dinah is also the weak link (not that she can't hold her own). Bruce and Dick also have the better teamwork. Leaning towards the Dynamic Duo, but Shiva alone makes this incredibly tough to call. Honestly, she can kinda hold her own solo for awhile. Now I'm leaning towards the Shiva and Dinah lol.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#36  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@indomitableregal: I literally factually proved Dinah > Nightwing above

She’s been compared to Shiva and Bruce dozens of times, has fight Cassandra Cain, and defeated someone that Connor Hawke had trouble with. Every fighter mentioned is out of Nightwing’s league

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IndomitableRegal

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@indomitableregal: I literally factually proved Dinah > Nightwing above

She’s been compared to Shiva and Bruce dozens of times, has fight Cassandra Cain, and defeated someone that Connor Hawke had trouble with. Every fighter mentioned is out of Nightwing’s league

1) Didn't read your post, don't intend to. Skipped right over it. 2) I still have Nightwing above her. 3) I'm not interested in debating anything with you. Like ever.

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OracleFromHel

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isnt shiva on deathstrokes level? also doesn't black canary have super strength (at least a little or maybe im confused) i think she's as capable a fighter as nightwing although everytime ive seen him he was beaten (but thats bc i havent read much comics with him)

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Lenzo0

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#39  Edited By Lenzo0

@emmafrostxmen:

Dinah is not above Nightwing. Like i mentioned, this is the same Nightwing who is second to Batman in fighting skills and has defeated Red Hood, Batman in a fight, Bruce wanted to see if his will was broken or not and stalemated Cassandra Cain. Not to mention he is the world's greatest acrobat and relies more on his speed and agility, plus can perform Tricking and Acrobatic moves very few people can replicate. He is the fastest one here. In Robin Year 1, Bruce complimented on his speed and agility saying how he makes things look so easy. In Grayson Issue 1, he threw his gun so hard enough that it ricocheted of a telephone pole and KO'ed someone. He was also able to open up the jaw of an orca using nothing but his own strength.

You give Cassandra, Shiva and Black Canary too much credit. Speaking of Martial Arts, if Batman is written correctly with his skillset, he would destroy Lady Shiva. One of the reason why i dislike her character a little is how she is written. Any Batman can defeat Canary.

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Lenzo0

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#40  Edited By Lenzo0

@oraclefromhel: Lady Shiva probably has skill and martial arts over The Balkan. However, Slade outclasses her in every other conceivable way. Agility, Speed, Strength, Durability, Endurance and add the fact this guy has healing factor. Something she doesn't have. This is the same guy who was hired to kill an entire country, has fought against Superman (tho he had the Ikon Armor there) its still impressive nonetheless. Deathstroke has also managed to tear off an aircrafts door that went at 500mph, at 40,000 ft up, with one hand. In Deathstroke (2014) #5, he teared off a large debris and casually swung that shit like nothing. << happened in a fight between him and Batman, where i think he won, but also said he had to play dirty in order to win.

Lady Shiva isn't Deathstroke level. But, she is good.

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TurtleTortoise

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Batman solos

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Slade-Prime

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Team 1 high diff

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@lenzo0: You've failed to defend your argument. I’ve proven above that Dinah was able to defeat a person that gave Connor Hawke trouble (Rabbit). Connor Hawke >> Nightwing

Black Canary has also been stated to be above Batman in skill by Oracle (credible source), and she’s been stated twice to be Shiva’s equal (Shiva >> Nightwing).

Black Canary also has far super reaction feats to Nightwing. She reacted to a blitz from Black Alice using Shazam’s powers and can effortlessly react to billets point blank.

Canary will defeat Nightwing in skill, the only challenge is his agility

Shiva has already proven her superiority to Batman lmao, Batman can never, and will never solo

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deactivated-5f3f3e796cbd9

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Team 2

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@indomitableregal: 1) Did I ask? 2) you’ve failed to prove anything for Nightwing actually, and I don’t care that you don’t want to get into a debate. Black Canary is superior as I’ve proven, and you saying you don’t want to debate is a concession. 3) I didn’t know you existed on the site until now, which is kinda sad considering you know me🥰 4) I’ll keep in mind how much of a jerk you are next time I see you in a thread

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deactivated-5f3f3e796cbd9

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lol that edit.

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Lenzo0

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#49  Edited By Lenzo0

@emmafrostxmen: You've failed to defend your argument. I’ve proven above that Dinah was able to defeat a person that gave Connor Hawke trouble (Rabbit). Connor Hawke &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Nightwing.

Says the one who put Connor Hawke above Nightwing, yeah... and you can't even give me a single physical feat or any agility or speed feats that puts Connor Hawke or Dinah over Nightwing. It is you who failed and ignored half of my post. And for me its Nightwing > Connor Hawke.

Black Canary has also been stated to be above Batman in skill by Oracle (credible source), and she’s been stated twice to be Shiva’s equal (Shiva &amp;gt;&amp;gt; Nightwing).

You haven't proven anything. About everything you said is only statements and scaling. Batman is said to be the best combatant in the entire DC and is a master of every fighting style on earth. Can incapacitate a person in 463 different ways without drawing blood and has trained in perfecting every violent art there is. Has shown knowledge and use of different Pressure point/nerve strike techniques. Nightwing even said that there is no Nerve Strike he doesn't know.

Black Canary also has far super reaction feats to Nightwing. She reacted to a blitz from Black Alice using Shazam’s powers and can effortlessly react to billets point blank.

Tell me when she can jump can avoid gunfire from 27 gun shooters mid air, be fast enough to grab Firefly and use him as a human shield after bullets were fired at him. Perform a quadruple somersault, Dance around or do acrobatics around P90 gunfire, has avoiding Killshots bullets like nothing. In Robin Year 1, as Robin, he was already doing backhand springs and avoiding bullets like nothing. As Robin, he also impressed Shrike as well.

Canary will defeat Nightwing in skill, the only challenge is his agility

Again, he is second to Bruce in fighting skills and other categories plus that he outclasses her in every conceivable way including speed and agility due to his circus background and that he relies more on that as well. You can say she is Shiva lvl all you want, when she hasn't shown anything that suggest she is. Only statements. Unlike Dinah, Dick has actually proven to be 2 behind Batman. Tho, it might not be true as a whole, but yeah.

Shiva has already proven her superiority to Batman lmao, Batman can never, and will never solo

Proven her superiority via an armbar. If that is the instance you are talking about, then you need to look up some Martial arts on youtube. Stop it. I admire her but you can't take that scaling seriously. Batman has defeated a mind-controlled Shiva. And people downplay that feat because its Batman.

The Dynamic Duo Still Wins this.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@spinach: yea I wanted to write more and I thought I should use his format lol