Korra vs Zhao, Zuko, Azula

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Arcus1

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In this battle, Avatar Korra will take on Aang's first three villains, who will win?

Korra has all the elements. However, no Avatar State

Azula is sane

Fight takes place in the Crystal Catacombs. Starting distance is 25 feet

Victory by ko or death

Round 1: Zuko is pre-Catacombs. No lightning

Round 2: Zuko is post-Catacombs. No lightning

Round 3: Zuko is post-Catacombs. Lightning on

Who wins?

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Arcus1

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#2  Edited By Arcus1

@norrinboltagonprime21 @pooty @pr0metheus @sophia89@princearagorn1 @lvenger

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Sy8000

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#3 Sy8000  Online

I can't remember that many feats from Zhao but I don't think he was all that impressive. Korra should win. She has a comfortable advantage over Zuko and Azula in raw power even in firebending and has other elements to take them down with.

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Arcus1

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#4  Edited By Arcus1

@highaccuser: he is the Moonslayer and a moonbuster... :)

Korra might have some higher raw power feats, but she doesn't always use them in character

Think there'll be a difference in the rounds?

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Sy8000

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#5 Sy8000  Online

@arcus said:

@highaccuser: he is the Moonslayer and a moonbuster... :)

Korra might have some higher raw power feats, but she doesn't always use them in character

Think there'll be a difference in the rounds?

I guess but if pushed enough I think she will.

Not really. The contrast in feats between Zuko before and after Catacombs isn't very big and I doubt Azula will be able to pull off lightning.

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justicethorpsylocke

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Is this Zhao, Zuko, and Azula?

Are you asking for her to fight all at once or one at a time. I think she would go down to Zuko and Azula together

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Arcus1

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Koays

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R1 Korra can win. Speed is the only issue she'd really have but the team can't really survive the loss of Azula.

R2 Either way. Korra's got a lot to work with but Zuko is a larger threat and the numbers game make it so that she could have trouble trying to pin them all down. Korra can win if she can auto freeze the crew or force them into a corner with bending, but to say she can pin down Azula and Zuko who can match her pretty dam well in half her offense and have the agility feats that she has trouble with...that's much.

R3- Team wins. Korra is powerful, but lightning is going to down her. She's got three opponents, and short of Zhao not even making it to the fight she's going to have to do a lot to contain just the siblings. Her best bet here is to get up high and out of range of their attacks but that sets her up perfect for lightning, and if despite her advanced bending there's a one in three chance she won't go after the one shot attacker, or will go after Zuko who will go down fighting, or after Zhao who is a huge distraction. Basically there's too much for the team to work with and because Korra won't necessarily resort to AoE, or even rely on it for long, it gives them too much of an opening to counter or capitalize on her lack of numbers.

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justicethorpsylocke

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@arcus: yep. Zuko and Azula were each holding their own against Aang in the catacombs. Korra is easier to put down than Aang in this scenario imo. Against 2 highly skilled agile firebenders she won't last long. Round 3 is a stomp

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Arcus1

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@justicethorpsylocke:

They were beating Aang when he was relying on earthbending-which he was still learning. I would disagree about that Aang being tougher than Korra-why do you think that?

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Arcus1

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#11  Edited By Arcus1

@koays:

Fair analysis. I figured round 2 would be the most even

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justicethorpsylocke

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@arcus: his agility makes him harder to tag but he still was getting whooped. Korra can't take Zuko and Azula in this environment, I think

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Arcus1

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@justicethorpsylocke: he only got hit when he wasn't using his agility. Korra's got more offensive and defensive options than Aang did, and is more likely to use her versatility

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xXxcarzellxXx

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This is when pro-bending comes to play with that and a mix if tradutional bending she could take the first 2 rounds

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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zhao solos all three rounds XD

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Arcus1

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arv993

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#17  Edited By arv993

azula solos, its worse adding zuko post or pre catacombs. korra is not good at fire. crystal catacombs might help with water but unike katara korra is more directand azula dodges much easier as she usually does. adding zuko is worse and zhao is there to watch since he is just useless.

korra is easy for ppl to read she is a direct bender an thats bad against azula and she is slower than aang which doesnt help. her earth feats are mediocre, her fire feats in battle are close to useless air and water are her saving grace and adding zuko makes a definite win for team.

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Arcus1

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@arv993: Why do you think Azula solos? I think most would disagree

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#19  Edited By arv993

@arcus: no most would not disagree, most would agree go to any forum and ppl usually side with atla characters over lok and most call korra weak just fyi. korra's image as a bender is generally said to be weaker by most compared to aang and LOK < ATla in feats is common among avatar fans so lets not get too bogged down by popular opinion.

korra is a easily readable character and azula fares well against that and give her lightning with her faster lightining feats she ca tag korra with ease considering she has superior agility and speed. and azula is good against air benders which korra is actually good at. so its water, earth and air vs fire and lightning and she is not as skilled and smart as katara but very direct like in her fights with desna eska and tarrlok. which azula can deal with imo

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

My point was that no one else here has said that Azula solos. If you believe she does, feel free to offer actual reasons as to why-ATLA>LOK isn't a reason

Korra has all the elements, not just water and fire. How is Korra "readable," because she's direct? So is Azula, so is Ozai, so is the Avatar State if you want to go there

Azula' never been offensive against an offensive Aang using mainly airbending

Did you get my PM about a CaV?

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arv993

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#22  Edited By arv993

@arcus: that was not a reason i was giving u ppl's opinions in general, so i said lets keep popular opinion out.

no what i mean she is not a tactical fighter which is her biggest flaw she is punches elements out which is why ppllike kuvira are able to match her she should have beaten her quite well but instead tied.

azula is not as direct she becomes more direct when shes insane but thats becuz she is insane, ozai had the power advanatge in the fight he so much superior to aang in fire so he had that advantage what im saying korra messes up quite a bit against more tactical opponents like kuvira and azula is a more powerful version so i say she wins.

she has been offensive we talked about this b4, and she hit aang multiple times she is quite good at fighting against air benders and avoided all of his attacks and got him cornered in the fight where he was sleep deprived.

and ppl underrate how much a distraction helps and zaho is a decent enough distraction, this is not a fight worth talking about.

korra is the worst in combat the best she ever beat is LT of amon by herself she is not matching azula+ zuko+zhao with that kind of record, she couldnt beat any characters of worth in the whole show.

i just came back and i saw it what is CAV

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Pierpat

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Whoa Whoa whoa, we're overestimating korra here.

I think she is >/= Aang, you know it, but she ain't putting down the two sibilings at the same time.
Azula is casually more agile, seemingly more experienced, more cunning and has zero morals.

She does have that raw power gap, but once she has the numbers advantage, she should be able to place some hits while still avoiding most of korra's moves.

Zuko is not that great pre-catacombs, but he's still a skilled, fast firebender.

Korra will go down 6/10 in round one, 7-8/10 in round two and nigh 10/10 in round three(zuko and zhao distract the avatar while azula zapps)

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

I didn't bring in popular opinion, I challenged you to back up your claim

Did you even watch her second fight with Kuvira? She wasn't just "punching elements" (which is how firebending works), she was using the environment, redirecting Kuvira's attacks, etc

Yes. Azula evaded some of Aang's weak attacks. She also hit him when he wasn't fighting back or wasn't using his agility. But she never fought him when he was fighting offensively with significant airbending. There's nothing to suggest she has some special skill against airbending

It's when 2 (or more) people debate a battle, and when they're done other people come vote on who debated better and should win

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arv993

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#25  Edited By arv993

@arcus: azula did fight back, hell even zuko could fight back against aang, ppl say airbending is hard to beat but azula took him and beat him and lost as well. my point is she is good against airbenders unlike a lot of ppl.

firebending is more than just punching, look at what azula and zuko do with it they way they bend its and art and more powerful. azula did one of the best defense moves and zuko performed one of the best offense moves against aang. korra is an amateur in comparison and this shows in her fights her fire is close to useless in most of them. she relied on air and earth more. and water when its available.

she was for the large part punching her elements if she were smarter she would have beat her instead she tied with her, she should have been better than that her air bending was good but her fire was pitiful she never uses it well in a fight.

oh i see i'll do it later i only come on here once in a while once my exams are over i will do it. but i have question wouldnt ppl just go based on their previous bias but ill try it

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

You're missing the point. Give me a fight that meets these conditions:

1. Aang was being offensive-doing more than just evading

2. He was using primarily airbending

3. Azula was fighting back in return (not just running)

4. The fight was even, both were standing their ground and fighting

Azula's "great defensive move" was a retreat tactic, and it wasn't that spectacular. Yeah, Zuko used fire whips once, cool. I'm not saying that Korra's better than them in firebending alone. However, both Zuko and Azula have done plenty of punching/blasting (yeah Azula doesn't always punch, she uses her fingers, if that matters or something)

So the fact that the fight was inconclusive (even though it was in Korra's favor) means Korra's a horrible bender? Couldn't be a credit to Kuvira?

I would like that, we could settle this debate. That's why you have to debate well

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Arcus1

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@pierpat: what makes Azula so much more agile? Korra's got the most experience here @arv993: Here's a sample CaV

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-azula-justicethorpsylocke-vs-mako-bolin-arcus--1652461/

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Pierpat

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@arcus said:

@pierpat: what makes Azula so much more agile? Korra's got the most experience here @arv993: Here's a sample CaV

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-azula-justicethorpsylocke-vs-mako-bolin-arcus--1652461/

Why should korra have more fighting experience?

First of all she surely does not have more fighting experience than Zhao.

The training she did back at the south pole was clearly underwhelming(lol, an avatar with 10+ years of continuous training should not have been as bad as korra was back in season 1), they where evidently not pushing her enough thus not being effective.

On the other side azula and zuko have fought a war, and that kind of experience is >>korra's, that has done some cool shit, but still not that much.

And don't come and tell me korra fought a war against kuvira because i'll just laugh.

And why is Azula more agile?

Do we have to go back to the eclipse feats for azula?
Korra was never even close to being that agile.

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Pierpat

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@arcus:

OT, why haven't me and you ever done a CAV? It could be really cool, i like your way of debating and respect you a lot.

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arv993

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#30  Edited By arv993

@arcus: aang as kid is never all too offensive and she easily dodged his attacks with no fire in day of black sun. aang uses earth because it gives him more power and he was losing there when he did,he still has his air to boost his movements. if aang himslef starts using earth dont u think its becuz air did almost nothing to azula she so easily dodges it.

azula's retreat is a great feat, aang did a small air move, iroh and zuko used fire, plus more from katara and toph so yea nothing happened to her.

zuko used it with swords, zuko used with aang with his legs to make a vortex, azula uses to precisely cut a building. thats a whole liot more than just punching.

kuvira and korra tied , korra should win against a su yin level bender she has so many advantages, kuvira is not impressive compared to other lok villains and ozai, iroh and the upper tiers from lok she is talented metal bender but more of a leader with good persuasion than an amazing fighter.

and the CAV seems to me like more of a popularity contest the guy had good points but no one gave him even a singe vote becuz he was using videos and didnt use gifs and was not as good at presenting his ideas. i dont have any clue how to make gifs i just use scans or videos. so i dont even mind arguing it out here for kuvira vs azula. but i am not gonna go create gifs or kno how to do it. for me its more text thats how it worked in other forums. it seems like a lot of extra effort over a regular thread but instead its one who uses more fancy tools wins its good but it seems excessive u can argue the same thing in a regular vs thread and just have ppl vote.

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theavatarguruu

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Arcus1

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@pierpat:

Azula wasn't fighting anyone until Ozai sent her out. Zuko was traveling the world hunting the Avatar, not fighting the war. They haven't fought the variety of opponents Korra has, or been fighting as long. Zhao just busts moons

I'd be willing to do a CaV sometime

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arv993

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#33  Edited By arv993

@arcus: she was training a lot, u think she never sparred with anyone. the creators say royal training is good when an interviewer asked him is ozai not good at fighting since he was always in the palace and that ozai always practices as seen in the comics. if u look for the interviews on google u can find it but anyways azula was the same otherwise it would make no sense why she is so good at combat.

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

He waited till Black Sun, his last fight with her, to significantly attack with air, so, no, he didn't use earth because air was ineffective

She ran away, that's not a winning move, that's a move of desperation. Sure, she pretty much blocked some weak attacks, cool

The Su Yin level bender argument doesn't work

People vote based on the argument and presentation. He didn't elaborate on his points or sufficiently back up his arguments. If you're worried about gifs I can give them to you, they're pretty simple to make too. If Azula's really so superior to Kuvira (or Korra, or some other matchup), it shouldn't be that hard to prove it

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

Korra was sparring too, as seen in her opening firebending scene. She never lost a bending battle Book 1 except against op bloodbending

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arv993

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#36  Edited By arv993

@arcus: he tried and failed again, he uses earth way more becuz offensively its quite useful he was really good with it against guards since it gave him an easy win a lot faster than air did, he uses it with cman a lot and even threw pillars at him, earth was something aang believed was more useful for offense

its 6v1 with iroh in it what else could she do, the defense is what im pointing at which was good. aang used air as defense to run away so is his defense bad cuz he used it to run away.

thats just my opinion. but seriously kuvira is not amazingly special like some ppl in LOK and yet she tied korra which really bad on korra.

IMo his presentation was not good but his feats that he posted were good. and he got no single vote from ppl who would even back azula so i dont see the point as im not tech savvy to present really well. Im more just text and can show a video or a scan from a comic.like i said i can even argue it here and u can ask ppl's opinon but i wont be much fun at CAv where presentation matters. i honestly dont get the point its better to just set a poll and present two opinions on who wins instead of creating a bio for each character.like in narutobase i made a thread for korra vs aang to see how ppl would vote which gave me good understanding of popular opinion on it.

lol and i never said korra dindt do sparring i said azula had have to some training where fought others.

she didnt have too many bending battles in book 1 and pro bending doesnt count as its a game mako lost to ppl there who he can solo.

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#37  Edited By jrazor

@arcus Korra easily beats Zhao with like one move in all three rounds. As for Zuko and Azula i think she could handle them together especially Zuko. So I say she takes out Zhao and Zuko all three rounds easily and then its just a 1v1 battle between her and Azula. With that i think she stomps Azula even though she's sane.

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haoalchemist

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

When did he try to use air offensively against Azula before Black Sun? More than a random attack would be good

He used air effectively plenty of times too

Defense against some weak attacks that she's never used in a fight, sure

The point's not to get popular opinion, it's to formally debate and see who's better. I can provide gifs, so don't worry about that. Again, if it's as clear as you say, it shouldn't be hard for you to present a convincing argument. It's just for us to present an organized debate, as opposed to the scattered debates across threads. If you can't present an argument for Azula then maybe you shouldn't be so quick to say she's superior

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jrazor

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#40  Edited By jrazor

Azula definitely does not solo. The only reason she was getting the upper hand against Aang was because he doesn't use his all when fighting. He's was raised to not fight. Katara was easily getting the upper hand on Azula during the Crossroads of destiny and she only has one element. Korra wouldn't be so timid as Aang was and for that I feel she can easily defeat all three of them with mid difficulty. Zhao would be destroyed within 10 seconds all three rounds and Zuko wouldn't last that long either. She has very good defense when it comes to fire bending attacks (you can see that in the pilot episode when she is taking her firebending test) as for her and Azula she won't have much problems facing her because like I said, Korra has good defense toward fire bending. Azula does have lightning yes, but korra could: 1) block it 2)dodge it 3) attack Azula before she has a chance to fire it. Also Korra has a much more aggressive nature than Aang which will help her a lot in the battle.

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Arcus1

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@jrazor:

You think she can beat Zhao the Conqueror, the Moon-Slayer, the Incincible?

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#42  Edited By arv993

@arcus: why does it have to be b4 he himself tries to use earth instead becuz his air is easiy dodged and she showed that in a 3 way fight and in ba sing se where he uses air on zuko but earth on azula. his actions speak for themselves and black sun proves im even more on the right where she dodges it with ease.

defense against 6 ppl yea nice trying to down play that

i can and i have provided why azula is superior, u kno everyone says that based on their opinion right u say kuvira>azula which is an opinion. i have feats that show azula is faster since she out paced aang in black sun and more which the guy u did a CAv with showed, can produce lightning fast through her feats from comics and she has more destructive attacks such as cutting buildings in the 3 way fight, being able to destroy aang's defense of earth etc. and aang is the fastest and agile character in the show and azula can match him there and this is why she is more agile than kuvira. this is my whole argument i kno when and where it happens in the show so how can kuvira beat someone she is slower than and has weaker feats in her bending than and more importantly with it being metal how can she beat her quick lightning which would zap her metal that she uses for offense and defense.

^ this is all i would say i dont see why i have to make gifs and a long bio for something like this. and again it all comes to presentation which is stupid becuz i would just rather have a poll the whole CAV goes away from main discussion but focuses more on the individuals debating style.

if i did cav i would just copy paste my argument and show in youtube where it happens and it wont be too fun for u since its more about style etc which i honestly dont care about

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Arcus1

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jrazor

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@arcus even sokka could beat him LOL (end of book 3 sokka of course)

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#45  Edited By jrazor

@arv993 Katara beat Azula twice... I'm sure korra is stronger than Katara. so by default korra stomps.

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@jrazor: katara> korra in water and two katara is smarter with water than korra who is direct and easy to read. show me feats of korra being anywhere close to in speed as azula. the only person who gets beat here is korra. her lightning gives her an edge too and she has shown fast ones. katara beat azula when insane and had the upper hand once in battle she didnt even beat her.

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Arcus1

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@arv993:

You say he used earthbending cause his airbending was ineffective. How would he know it was ineffective unless he tried it?

You can hardly say those were their strongest attacks, or strong attacks at all

You don't need a bio, just a well presented, convincing argument. Yeah, that's not gonna be convincing. I'm assuming you don't actually care about actually debating, you're convinced that Azula's massively superior and don't want/can't actually prove it. Oh well. I was looking forward to settling this ongoing debate between us, maybe I'd be convinced Azula wins. It would give both of us a chance and a reason to prepare better arguments that will be more convincing to see who's right

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hatemalingsia

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@jrazor: I actually made Zhao vs Sokka... :) @arv993: Korra's used the same move Katara used to get the upper hand on Azula in the Catacombs (Korra vs Azula is another CaV I'd be interested in having with you, all elements or restricted)

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#50  Edited By jrazor

@arv993: if zuko didn't interfere azula would have lost. And i know katara is stronger in her waterbending prowess but korra all together with all 4 elements could beat them. Korra has a good defense against firebending (look at my previous comment) and she is fast. In the book 2 finale she dodged unalaqs water jets, and she could catch up to Azula using fire bending like she did in the season 3 finale (Ik she was in the avatar state but she could still use that technique without the AS) and in the book 4 finale she dodged the spirit beam (which is very fast) on her air vortex. she could catch up to Azula whether it be with her regular speed or with the assistance of her bending.