Korra and Ghazan vs Zuko and Ming Hua

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Arcus1

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Korra and Ghazan:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

VS

Zuko and Ming Hua:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

In this battle of earth and air vs fire and water, who will win?

Korra is restricted to airbending only. No Avatar State

Ming Hua starts with 2 water arms. Ghazan starts with his lava shuriken pre-formed

Fight takes place in the Misty Palms Oasis, where Ming Hua and Ghazan first fought Mako and Bolin

Time is perpetual twilight

All are in character. Victory by ko

Who wins?

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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This is a close and interesting fight. I think Zuko is narrowly the weakest here, but everyone is more or less on the same level. This is pretty much a perfectly neutral environment for Ming, with some stuff to swing from but not enough to go swinging everywhere all the time. As far as individual matchups go, I'd bet on Korra beating Zuko (not sure if Ghazan would win; could be a good CaV if anyone is up for it) and Ming beating Ghazan narrowly because of his low showing with Bumi (some of the time Ghazan will generate enough lava to keep Ming away, at which point he wins), but I'm not sure on Korra vs Ming. So the individual matchups are more or less a wash in my eyes. With that in mind, I think I'll go with team one narrowly, because in a team fight they get stronger the longer the fight lasts, and once Ghazan gets enough lava he can overwhelm team two.

Team 1 6-7/10.

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geekryan

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I'm going with Team 2 in a good fight. Ming is a good counter to Ghazan, due to her mobility and speed.

Zuko vs. Airbending Korra would be close, but Ming would beat Ghazan first and then defeat Korra in a 2v1

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viking1205

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#4  Edited By viking1205

I'm going with team-2 high difficulty here. Korra has a chance to beat either Zuko or Ming with extreme difficulty. But I see Ghazan losing to either of them quicker than any other matchup. So team-2 gang up on Korra. I don't think she'd beat both of these 2 together.

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vengefulshot

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I'm going with team-2 high difficulty here. Korra has a chance to beat either Zuko or Ming with extreme difficulty. But I see Ghazan losing to either of them quicker than any other matchup. So team-2 gang up on Korra. I don't think she'd beat both of these 2 together.

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Arcus1

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@vengefulshot: @viking1205: @geekryan: Would it be closer if Ghazan started the fight with more lava (say, a small pool right beside him or something)? I considered doing that instead of the shuriken

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geekryan

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@arcus1: I don’t think it would make much of a difference tbh. Lavabending is just overall the slowest form of bending.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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If Ming fights Ghazan while Zuko fights Korra (he can’t beat her, just hold her off for a little while) they end up 2v1 against Korra where team 2 will win

If Ming fights Korra she will be able to hold her own for a while and could even win, but Zuko will get defeated by Ghazan due to not having a reliable counter to lava bending.

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vengefulshot

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@arcus1: Yeah I think that would help Ghazan out. I don't see fighters as aggressive as Zuko and Ming giving him space for anything big unless he starts with a good lava supply right there.

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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@geekryan said:

@arcus1: I don’t think it would make much of a difference tbh. Lavabending is just overall the slowest form of bending.

I don't think this is really true. Big lavabending power moves are slow, but big power moves are slow with any element. Lava's "basic offense" like the shuriken is just as fast as typical elemental attacks:

No Caption Provided

This is just as fast as a regular boulder, but much more powerful.

No Caption Provided

And this shuriken is traveling at comparable speeds to the fire blast it stops.

This is from Bolin, but it shows that even relatively large lava waves can be generated quickly:

No Caption Provided

The reason lavabending seems slow is that both Bolin and Ghazan tend to use earthbending for their basic offense and reserve lavabending as their power-move trump card. This, combined with small sample size (only two benders, neither of whom has very many feats) makes lavabending seem slow, but it isn't. If all we saw from, say, waterbending, was waves like this one:

No Caption Provided

Or this one:

No Caption Provided

We would think it was slow too.

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MorbusGrav

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@geekryan said:

I'm going with Team 2 in a good fight. Ming is a good counter to Ghazan, due to her mobility and speed.

Zuko vs. Airbending Korra would be close, but Ming would beat Ghazan first and then defeat Korra in a 2v1

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geekryan

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@mialthefencer: I don't think lavabending is significantly slower than other forms of bending, but it is somewhat slower on average. Especially when you consider that Ming Hua is one of the fastest and most mobile benders of LOK.

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deactivated-5eeb201d11f2c

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@geekryan said:

@mialthefencer: I don't think lavabending is significantly slower than other forms of bending, but it is somewhat slower on average. Especially when you consider that Ming Hua is one of the fastest and most mobile benders of LOK.

Well, the average is slower because lava is typically used for things like big waves (and comparable moves are slow in all elements) and because actually generating the lava is moderately time consuming (but here, Ghazan starts with a shuriken, which can be turned into a pool of lava to draw from). Once the lava's there, a lava boulder isn't any slower than ice crystals, fireblasts, airblasts, or regular boulders.

Ming in particular is a bad match up for Ghazan (anyone who spends most of their time in the air is), but I don't think Zuko is.

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chloros

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Team two for the majority. Ming-Hua can beat either, and she has a favourable match up against Ghazan, since she is fast and mobile enough to avoid the lava. Zuko can beat Ghazan or at least hold his own awhile against either. Then they can turn this into a two vs one fight and win.

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Tektonic

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If Ming fights Ghazan while Zuko fights Korra (he can’t beat her, just hold her off for a little while) they end up 2v1 against Korra where team 2 will win

If Ming fights Korra she will be able to hold her own for a while and could even win, but Zuko will get defeated by Ghazan due to not having a reliable counter to lava bending.

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Captain_Narlowe

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Zuko and Ming Hua, both of them can defeat either of the other team.

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BigDreamer48

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#17 BigDreamer48  Online

Zuko can hold off or even beat either in the long fight, but Ghazan or Korra could beat him too. It would be a high difficulty fight on both sides, but I think Ming has an agility advantage over Ghazan here so she beats him. Zuko holds off Korra, and even if she gets the upper hand, his durability is great, so it'll be enough for Ming to swoop in and double team Korra once she's done with Ghazan.

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Arcus1

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Regarding lavabending being slower than earthbending, I do agree that lavabenders do seem to benefit from building momentum with their lava generation, but I'm not sure it's necessarily slower than comparably scaled earthbendingng

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Arcus1

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Bump

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Cs1013

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Zuko and Ming Hua for the slim majority. I think Zuko can beat Ghazan before Ming Hua and Korra's fight is over.

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frijacks12345

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Korra's a weaklink, but ghazan brings it to a halariously narrow lose, and even then idk.

Team 2 due to Korra's horrifyingly weak fact.

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byondeon

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Team 1. In a borderline stomp.

Korra is above either on team 1 with Airbending. She would beat Zuko low-diff. Ming is useless here

Location just makes this ever worse for team 2.

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CocaColaMan

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Can go either way

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byondeon

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Korra's a weaklink,

Korra is literally only surpassed by Aang in airbending. She is the second strongest airbender to have ever lived.

but ghazan brings it to a halariously narrow lose, and even then idk.

Ghazan and Ming are the weak links and their team mates could literally just take them out and proceed to fight a 1 on 1.

Team 2 due to Korra's horrifyingly weak fact.

Considering that she is stronger than everyone here with her airbending, you are just blatantly wrong.

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viking1205

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I'm leaning towards team 2. Ghazan would be annihilated in seconds to be frank. Korra can't carry, not with Ming Hua on the other side.

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Domnguyen30

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@byondeon said:

Team 1. In a borderline stomp.

That's absurd

Korra is above either on team 1 with Airbending. She would beat Zuko low-diff.

Huh??? Zuko's way too durable to be low-diffed

Ming is useless here

Not really

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frijacks12345

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@byondeon said:
@frijacks12345 said:

Korra's a weaklink,

Korra is literally only surpassed by Aang in airbending. She is the second strongest airbender to have ever lived.

she's done nothing that fodder cant do,and practically all she knows how to do are airblasts and airkicks, he 2 fodder moves.

but ghazan brings it to a halariously narrow lose, and even then idk.

Ghazan and Ming are the weak links and their team mates could literally just take them out and proceed to fight a 1 on 1.

OG bro, u have Zuko or korra>ming or ghazan? u really r a troll...

Team 2 due to Korra's horrifyingly weak fact.

Considering that she is stronger than everyone here with her airbending, you are just blatantly wrong.

considering that she is a fodder here, u r horrifyingly incorrect.

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Domnguyen30

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If Ming fights Korra she will be able to hold her own for a while and could even win, but Zuko will get defeated by Ghazan due to not having a reliable counter to lava bending.

Tbf, Mako deflected lavabending rather easily. But yea you're right, he doesn't have counters to more highscalled attacks

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byondeon

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@byondeon said:

Team 1. In a borderline stomp.

That's absurd

Korra is above either on team 1 with Airbending. She would beat Zuko low-diff.

Huh??? Zuko's way too durable to be low-diffed

Ming is useless here

Not really

1: Korra and Ghazan wins this in a borderline stomp. Ming is useless and Korra low-diffs Zuko.

2: Zuko is durable, sure. Compared to Korra, not so much. Not to mention she is by far the greatest bender here.

3: She is.

@byondeon said:
@frijacks12345 said:

Korra's a weaklink,

Korra is literally only surpassed by Aang in airbending. She is the second strongest airbender to have ever lived.

she's done nothing that fodder cant do,and practically all she knows how to do are airblasts and airkicks, he 2 fodder moves.

but ghazan brings it to a halariously narrow lose, and even then idk.

Ghazan and Ming are the weak links and their team mates could literally just take them out and proceed to fight a 1 on 1.

OG bro, u have Zuko or korra>ming or ghazan? u really r a troll...

Team 2 due to Korra's horrifyingly weak fact.

Considering that she is stronger than everyone here with her airbending, you are just blatantly wrong.

considering that she is a fodder here, u r horrifyingly incorrect.

1: Korra's feats are literally only surpassed by Aang. And her airbending defense I would honestly say is equal or slightly better than Aang's.

2: Considering that Zuko and Korra >>>> Ghazan > Ming I don't see how I troll by saying that. It's obvious from the shows that that is the case.

3: She is literally above Tenzin in Airbending. Tenzin > Ghazan and Ming together. Korra have the best airbending feats after Aang. Just cause you don't like Korra doesn't mean that she is not above most characters. Korra's airbending is one of the strongest in the franchise (in terms of all 4 different forms of bending, Earth/Fire/Water/Air). All other would be fodder to Korra here.

I would argue Korra can solo this.

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Domnguyen30

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#31  Edited By Domnguyen30

@byondeon said:
@domnguyen30 said:
@byondeon said:

Team 1. In a borderline stomp.

That's absurd

Korra is above either on team 1 with Airbending. She would beat Zuko low-diff.

Huh??? Zuko's way too durable to be low-diffed

Ming is useless here

Not really

1: Korra and Ghazan wins this in a borderline stomp. Ming is useless and Korra low-diffs Zuko.

Laughable. Korra does not lowdiff Zuko and Ming does not fall completely useless to Ghazan. She has enough water her to last quite a while. Zuko on the other hand is not getting low-diffed by Korra lmfao. Korra's airbending is not as strong as Aang's in terms of raw power and even Aang with his best moves couldn't land any good damage on Zuko. Not to mention he's survived tons of explosions. I doubt Korra can do this with her airbending. Firelord Zuko can easily destroy stone constructs and layers of metal chains, both of which would do serious damage to Korra.

https://gfycat.com/ripechiefhyracotherium

2: Zuko is durable, sure. Compared to Korra, not so much. Not to mention she is by far the greatest bender here.

Zuko is arguably more durable than Non-AS Korra. With all of those explosions he has survived, he should be able to stand up against Korra in durability.

3: She is.

She can stall any of these in a 1v1 and possibly beat Ghazan. She's fast enough to avoid his lava

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BigDreamer48

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#32 BigDreamer48  Online

I'll side with Team 2. Ming-Hua straight up beats Ghazan via speed and agility, and I'd argue Zuko can too with his superior skill (though this is debatable). Korra is very strong but she can't take both. Ming's skill/agility and Zuko's durability can keep them in the game while the other takes on Ghazan.

Team 2 for a 6-7/10 majority imo.

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byondeon

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@byondeon said:
@domnguyen30 said:
@byondeon said:

Team 1. In a borderline stomp.

That's absurd

Korra is above either on team 1 with Airbending. She would beat Zuko low-diff.

Huh??? Zuko's way too durable to be low-diffed

Ming is useless here

Not really

1: Korra and Ghazan wins this in a borderline stomp. Ming is useless and Korra low-diffs Zuko.

Laughable. Korra does not lowdiff Zuko and Ming does not fall completely useless to Ghazan. She has enough water her to last quite a while. Zuko on the other hand is not getting low-diffed by Korra lmfao. Korra's airbending is not as strong as Aang's in terms of raw power and even Aang with his best moves couldn't land any good damage on Zuko. Not to mention he's survived tons of explosions. I doubt Korra can do this with her airbending. Firelord Zuko can easily destroy stone constructs and layers of metal chains, both of which would do serious damage to Korra.

https://gfycat.com/ripechiefhyracotherium

2: Zuko is durable, sure. Compared to Korra, not so much. Not to mention she is by far the greatest bender here.

Zuko is arguably more durable than Non-AS Korra. With all of those explosions he has survived, he should be able to stand up against Korra in durability.

3: She is.

She can stall any of these in a 1v1 and possibly beat Ghazan. She's fast enough to avoid his lava

Korra would most certainly low-diff Zuko. Not only does Aang smoke Zuko with Airbending, Korra would as well. She is literally matching Aang in airbending. Aang would beat her with high-diff with airbending and Aang literally smoked him the times they fought with Airbending. He couldn't do jack shit to Aang.

Zuko have survived explosions, however that was thanks to Firebending the explosion. Also

No Caption Provided

Reacting and stopping an explosion. Zuko would be dead or KOed here. She blocked it with ease.

The one you showed was him literally just surviving a small part, which he just deflected with firebending. The feat you posted literally a feat that any firebending fodder could survive.

She is also WAY more mobile than Zuko

Mastered the Airscooter technique few weeks after she learned Airbending
Mastered the Airscooter technique few weeks after she learned Airbending
Faster than a motorcycle
Faster than a motorcycle
Mastered Airspouts
Mastered Airspouts

Zuko can't compete with that.

Her power, well. She was the only one that affected the colossus from Kuvira.

Considering that other than that, it literally took Bolin, Su and Lin to drop a building on it to even remotely move the mech
Considering that other than that, it literally took Bolin, Su and Lin to drop a building on it to even remotely move the mech
Can easily suffocate people
Can easily suffocate people
Creating small tornadoes
Creating small tornadoes
Throwing a ball hundreds of meters with barely any effort
Throwing a ball hundreds of meters with barely any effort

I can go on but this will be enough for now.

Zuko most certainly not isn't as durable as Korra. Korra is the single most durable character in the franchise of the humans in it. There are animals more durable than them but humans, Korra is more durable. Not to mention she is superior than him in everything when it comes to their physical stats:

  • Strength
  • Speed
  • Durability
  • Agility
  • Hand 2 Hand skills

Granted he is a better fighter with weapons but you get the point I hope.

Zuko have not survived any explosion head-on. He has used Firebending on small explosions. Had he tanked them, he would have died. He never had to deal with an actual explosion that he wasn't knocked back from. He almost died from taking an explosion in season 3..

As for Ghazan and Ming Hua. Both of them are useless here, though Ming more so. Ming is probably the most overrated waterbender in the franchise. She is most certainly not even close to the power of Ghazan. While she is more agile and mobile than him, she would not win in a fight against him.

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Domnguyen30

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#34  Edited By Domnguyen30

Korra would most certainly low-diff Zuko. Not only does Aang smoke Zuko with Airbending, Korra would as well. She is literally matching Aang in airbending. Aang would beat her with high-diff with airbending and Aang literally smoked him the times they fought with Airbending. He couldn't do jack shit to Aang.

Aang doesn't low diff a firelord Zuko with only airbending. He has only smoked Book 1 Zuko, not a firelord Zuko who is holding back and can shatter solid metal with uncharged simple fireblasts.

https://i.imgur.com/M8FEV0W.jpg (destroys chains)

Zuko have survived explosions, however that was thanks to Firebending the explosion. Also

No Caption Provided

Reacting and stopping an explosion. Zuko would be dead or KOed here. She blocked it with ease.

Right...because Korra can create an explosion. You're comparing airbending defenses from Korra to Zuko's durability which is pretty stupid. Zuko has his own fireshields you know? And no Zuko won't be dead. He survived a drastically bigger and more powerful explosion with no major injuries. Granted he did block it but you're using Korra's airbending to compare to Zuko's durability which is flat out unfair.

The one you showed was him literally just surviving a small part, which he just deflected with firebending. The feat you posted literally a feat that any firebending fodder could survive.

So you got any feats for the average firebender? And "part" of the explosion he blocked was still absurdly more powerful than the explosion Korra blocked. Because one scene later, his entire ship explodes so technically he survived that one small explosion that only destroyed deck he was situated on, and then another explosion that literally destroyed his entire ship.

https://gfycat.com/ripechiefhyracotherium

Compare the second explosion to the one Korra blocked.

She is also WAY more mobile than Zuko

This location prevents airscooters from actually being useful here. Zuko has also dealt with a much more mobile Aang before

Mastered the Airscooter technique few weeks after she learned Airbending
Mastered the Airscooter technique few weeks after she learned Airbending
Faster than a motorcycle
Faster than a motorcycle
Mastered Airspouts
Mastered Airspouts

Zuko can't compete with that.

He can actually. Airspouts increase mobility. They don't increase raw power. It will only make Korra harder to hit but it won't stop Zuko from bypassing her airshields or forcing her to defend.

Her power, well. She was the only one that affected the colossus from Kuvira.

Right...Like Zuko is going to stand there like an idiot and wait for Korra to charge her airblast. Also, Avatar State which she tapped in to charge her airblast, a piece of utility she won't have here.

Considering that other than that, it literally took Bolin, Su and Lin to drop a building on it to even remotely move the mech
Considering that other than that, it literally took Bolin, Su and Lin to drop a building on it to even remotely move the mech
Can easily suffocate people
Can easily suffocate people
Creating small tornadoes
Creating small tornadoes
Throwing a ball hundreds of meters with barely any effort
Throwing a ball hundreds of meters with barely any effort

I can go on but this will be enough for now.

Unlike when Suyin, Bolin, Lin, and the brothers who moved the mech, when Korra blasted it, it was already leaning backwards due to having it's legs tied. The AS enhanced airblast just tipped it over to the other side.

Suffocate statues standing there not moving whatsoever? Sure. Zuko? No.

Zuko most certainly not isn't as durable as Korra. Korra is the single most durable character in the franchise of the humans in it. There are animals more durable than them but humans, Korra is more durable. Not to mention she is superior than him in everything when it comes to their physical stats:

Then prove it with feats.

  • Strength
  • Nope. Zuko's strength feats are still a bit over Korra's physical strength feats outside of AS
  • Speed
  • With airbending? It's more of mobility, not actual speed
  • Durability
  • Prove it with feats. https://gfycat.com/ripechiefhyracotherium
  • Agility
  • Only real viable lead
  • Hand 2 Hand skills
  • Useless here and I'd argue that Zuko's fire enhanced H2H evens it out. Airbending isn't that useful in H2H.

Zuko have not survived any explosion head-on. He has used Firebending on small explosions. Had he tanked them, he would have died. He never had to deal with an actual explosion that he wasn't knocked back from. He almost died from taking an explosion in season 3..

Neither can Korra survive explosions headon. But the fact that the explosion still had enough force to throw his body to god knows where says something about his durability. Explosions are designed to rupture internal organs. Not to mention being unfazed from this:

https://gfycat.com/sinfulplastickiskadee

As for Ghazan and Ming Hua. Both of them are useless here, though Ming more so. Ming is probably the most overrated waterbender in the franchise. She is most certainly not even close to the power of Ghazan. While she is more agile and mobile than him, she would not win in a fight against him.

Why is Ming the most overrated waterbender? She has agility and mobility that Ghazan doesn't have. His lava won't be as effective here and she has more than enough water to use multiple water arms, not just two.

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Aystarr

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#36  Edited By Aystarr

I think team 2 should win this with difficulty, either one of them should be able to hold off Korra while the other defeats Ghazan, Minghua's ability to stay off the ground with her arms should be useful against lavabending. And zuko's agility or firebending mobility should be a good way to escape lavabending + he Can just power through direct lava attacks with his firebending.

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viking1205

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Ghazan gets dropped in seconds and duo gang up on Korra.

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viking1205

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I'm leaning towards team 2. Ghazan would be annihilated in seconds to be frank. Korra can't carry, not with Ming Hua on the other side.

Still stand by this.

Ghazan doesn't really strike to me as someone that could stand on his own against most high tiers. He provides an excellent support system in large team battles, which was really why he clicked so well in the red lotus, as a group -- he provided the suitable base, which along with some defense, made P'li overwhelming and unstoppable. In 2v2 battles like these, he isn't lasting a long while, not against fast, precise, agile and aerial opponents like Ming Hua who can pressurize his relatively slow lava bending.

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byondeon

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@viking1205:

Ghazan would destroy Ming Hua.

Zuko is strong, but can't keep up with Korra.

Ghazan should be able to defend against Zuko. And Zuko would have trouble dealing with the lavabending of Ghazan.

Ming goes out fairly quickly.

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BigDreamer48

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#40 BigDreamer48  Online

@aystarr said:

I think team 2 should win this with difficulty, either one of them should be able to hold off Korra while the other defeats Ghazan, Minghua's ability to stay off the ground with her arms should be useful against lavabending. And zuko's agility or firebending mobility should be a good way to escape lavabending + he Can just power through direct lava attacks with his firebending.

I agree. I would side with Team 2 for a slight majority with Ming-hua as the MVP. As Viking explained, Ghazan is very powerful and is great in Team battles, but isn't as suited for 1 vs. 1 battles against other benders at his level.

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CocaColaMan

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Hody_Jones

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Airbending Only? Team 2 comfortably; I think Zuko kinda stomps Ghazan and Ming would pressure Korra enough to prevent her from pulling off anything Big. Though Ming and Korra could go either way IMO.