Knights of Ren vs Praetorian Guard

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Zetsu-San

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VS

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Rules:

Round 1: No Kylo.

Round 2: The Knights of Ren get Kylo, while the Praetorian Guard get Snoke.

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DarthAdi

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Round 1 I think KOR are suposed to be a bigger deal so they win.

Round 2 Not sure where i hold Snoke now after ROS revelations.

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UberCoffeeTime

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Kylo pretty much wrecked the KOR once Rey gave him a lightsaber, the guards gave him more of a struggle despite Rey being there to assist him.

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FinalKingThanos

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#4  Edited By FinalKingThanos

Kylo got better and used the force more he was at his best in the darkside for the most part before meeting Sidious then hes like a new man less Vader like and more Anakinesque as Ben with the saber, the KOR are supposedly inquisitor type level...

Snoke makes round 2 more one sided imo as hes obviously a higher level with the force and now we know it's more linked to the Dark Lord himself.

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McFlicky

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Praetorian guards both rounds. Knights of ren were a massive disappointment. A lot of hype for no payoff. Also kylo easily dispatched the knights of ren while the praetorian guards were giving both kylo and rey trouble.

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KingFrieza

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Neither are remotely close to the royal guard of the senate himself.

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AlexTheBoss

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Praetorians both rounds.

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PayneInTheAss

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Praetorian

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Waking_Dreamer

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@mcflicky said:

Praetorian guards both rounds. Knights of ren were a massive disappointment. A lot of hype for no payoff. Also kylo easily dispatched the knights of ren while the praetorian guards were giving both kylo and rey trouble.

True. But to be fair, Kylo would have become much stronger between TLJ and ROS.

Rey improved leagues between that time, after she had actual tutelage (Princess Leia), texts and decent training time...and Kylo either stalemated or edged-out over her in all their battles in ROS.

I wouldn't be surprised if TOS Kylo could solo the Praetorian Guards this time around as well.

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TG_15

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@kingfrieza: The red guards who fired at Rey and died like Stormtroopers after she refuses to kill Palps? Those would lose to either parties. Guards should take this due to greater numbers and lightsaber-resistant armor.

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DarthAdi

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KOR are suposed to be a bigged deal and are actually force sensitive. KOR are stated to be comparable with the inquisitors. They win. Kylo just improved since TLJ.

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AlexTheBoss

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@darthadi: When was it sated they are comparable to the Inquisitors? Even if they are they don’t have lightsabers, or weapons that can properly block lightsabers.

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Wolfrazer

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@alextheboss: I think the RoS VD says it, but then...that's not exactly helpful since the Inquisitors vary wildly. I mean 3 of them were taken out/injured by a group of Clone Troopers out of Kamino...soo....yeah.

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DarthAdi

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#14  Edited By DarthAdi

The visual dictionary states that their weapons are made with beskar,

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TG_15

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@darthadi: Seeing they are weak in the Force (weaker than Rey and Ben), it wouldn't affect the outcome of the fight much. They also seem to default to their melee weapons, which are inferior to the Elite Praetorian Guard weapons being semi-resistant to lightsabers. On top of that, their armor is also lightsaber resistant and can take multiple hits from lightsabers. Numbers also favor them, too. I can't say the same for the KOR.

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DarthAdi

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@tg_15: KOR weapons are also semi resistent to lightsabers. Read my post above. KOR are also stated to be comparable to the inquisitors. Even if their comparable to the weakest ones that still put them above the praetorian guards. Holistic portrayal and hype is also in their favor.

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UberCoffeeTime

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How would Kylo improve between TLJ and ROTS? He had no other master to train him...

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DarthAdi

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#18  Edited By DarthAdi

@kolkent: In star wars emotional grow very often means power grow. He was conflicted and emotionaly wrecked in TFA and TLJ but in ROS he is much more confident and emotionally stable and can actually control his huge raw power, or at least a part of it.

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Frocharocha

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#19  Edited By Frocharocha

Ren loses for being useless

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wholewheat

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knights both rounds. light side ben solo is at least snoke level. I wouldn't say knights are each on the level of an inquisitor given their worse weaponry, lack of force abilities other than amplifying stats, and the VD says they are the same "stock" that would be used for inquisitors, meaning they have the same potential as inquisitors. I think they are basically inquisitors but trained less, so slightly weaker. I put them on par with like the lightsaber wielding nightsisters (other than asajj) that attacked dooku in the clone wars. praetorians aren't force sensitive. Yes Kylo and rey improved massively from TLJ to TROS, at least the same amount that luke did from ESB to ROTJ despite having no master.

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AlexTheBoss

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@darthadi: The KOR weapons are slightly lightsaber resistant. The Praetorian’s weapons are lightsaber proof.

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AlexTheBoss

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@wholewheat: Was it sated the Praetorians weren’t force sensitive? It’s not like the KOR actively used the force in battle. They are no better than Finn (confirmed force sensitive) with a lightsaber.

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TG_15

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@alextheboss: I remember seeing it in a children's book somewhere that says they weren't force sensitive.

@darthadi:They are stated to become inquisitors if and only if they can be "tamed", which they are not. Portrayal is their performance on screen, and thus far they appear to have inferior armor and weapons. KOR weapons are slightly but not completely resistant to lightsabers whereas EPG's have weapons that are completely immune to lightsabers.

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DarthAdi

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@tg_15: The ideea is that they are force sensitives who have inquisitor level potential and most inquisitors were former jedi. The Rise of Kylo Ren will guve them some nice feats too. It's clear that they are hyped to be a bigger threat than the guards. This is way i said holisticportrayal. The Praetorian guards weapons won't be able to cut KOR's weapons at all if lightsabers need a great aplication of pressue to do so. I guess we will have to wait for the next issues of The Rise of Kylo Ren .

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camilopezo

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#25  Edited By camilopezo

For feats: Praetorian guards

For statements: Knights

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willpayton

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Both groups suck

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El_mago

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#28  Edited By El_mago

praetorian guards at least there not too much fodder

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TheVivas

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@finalkingthanos: “the KOR are supposedly inquisitor type level...”

According to who/what?

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IdrisianGraecus

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@thevivas: There’s a quote that says they “would be perfect stock for the inquisitorious”.

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TheVivas

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@darthadi: “KOR are stated to be comparable with the inquisitors”

You’ve said this three times in this thread and still haven’t shown any evidence for it.

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FinalKingThanos

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@thevivas said:

@darthadi: “KOR are stated to be comparable with the inquisitors”

You’ve said this three times in this thread and still haven’t shown any evidence for it.

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My bad it's from this I've maybe overstated it

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AlphaQ

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#33  Edited By AlphaQ

The Knights are definitely supposed to be better, I think, considering they are force sensitive, were the personal troopers of RoS Palpatine and are set to fight Grandmaster Luke and student Ben Solo in an upcoming comic.

By feats though the Praetorian Guards are better. Four basically had Kylo dead to rights whereas Ben could annihilate the Knights, but I imagine that’s just Ben being much more dangerous than Kylo, especially considering the context.

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ZR2011

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Praetorian hands down. He had the exact same amount of training, but 4 guards nearly killed him and he could easily kill 5 knights

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Redshift_Bacon

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#35  Edited By Redshift_Bacon

Round 1: By showings, Praetorian Guards should wreck shop. Superior Numbers and Equipment. But by Hype, KoR should win. Their gear is not going to be a downside in this Fight, and they should be at least scraping the lower Jedi-Knight level if they are comparaible to Inquisitors. Depending on how they do against Post-ROTJ Luke in the upcoming comic, the KoR may end up being at that High-End Jedi Knight level— I mean, they are still alive after their encounter with Luke, so... ironically this would also make Ben Solo scale over TLJ Kylo significantly. We shall see

As for Round 2...

Snoke being able to Ragdoll Kylo is still going to be applicable imo, even through TROS, Kylo was still Conflicted. Its not until he is Ben Solo/Post-Endor Moon that a case can be made for him Rivaling Snoke enough to be a threat, and tbh I dont believe theres a very strong case to be made, whereas Snoke was clearly just a vassal for Sidious’s Power. If anything, this makes Kylos Lightsaber trick at the end of TLJ more believable.. it’d be hard to sense all of that information from half way across the galaxy lmao

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Aristeaus

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@darthadi: When was it sated they are comparable to the Inquisitors? Even if they are they don’t have lightsabers, or weapons that can properly block lightsabers.

In the recent comic explaining some of the backstory of the KoR, which is canon, one of them actually has a lightsaber, and the requirement to join is being able to use the force.

Its actually a really interesting story. They are some weirdos, and not at all what you think of in regards to dark side force users.

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DarthAdi

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@thevivas: It's in the visual dictionary, which i don't have right now

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garrettmana

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The Knights of REN are bigger jobbers than Yamcha so I’d say the praetorian guard

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KingFrieza

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#39  Edited By KingFrieza

@tg_15: No, the royal guard are the primary defenders of the emperor during his reign over the galaxy.

Stated to have perfect form by Darth Vader/Sidious, can turn the tide of entire battles with just one guard, gave a enemy commander a mental breakdown on sight, etc.

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AlexTheBoss

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@Aristeaus: Yeah I read the comic, but being force sensitive doesn’t mean they are on par with the Inquisitors.

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Wolfrazer

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@tg_15: No, the royal guard are the primary defenders of the emperor during his reign over the galaxy.

Stated to have perfect form by Darth Vader/Sidious, can turn the tide of entire battles with just one guard, gave a enemy commander a mental breakdown on sight, etc.

....Wrong Canon...

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Aristeaus

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@Aristeaus: Yeah I read the comic, but being force sensitive doesn’t mean they are on par with the Inquisitors.

Force Sensitive and Force User are two different things. KoR have to be able to use the force "or shadow", as they call it. That makes them Force Users by default, but their level is yet to be determined and judging by the movie rather low.

Force Sensitives only have some enhanced reflexes and limited precog. They need to be trained in order to use the force, at which point they are no longer classified as Force Sensitives.

Are they on par with Inquisitors? No, probably not. I would bet that "Ren" likely is, given the lightsaber and what have you.

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AlexTheBoss

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@Aristeaus: Becoming a force user doesn’t mean they are no longer classified as force sensitive, but that is just arguing semantics. Until the KOR get more feats they lose this.

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FinalKingThanos

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@Aristeaus: @alextheboss: btw a KOR does actually force push Ben in the battle before he gets his saber so they can literally use the force.

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AlexTheBoss

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@finalkingthanos: That’s definitely a powerful advantage, but I don’t think that would be enough. Maybe if the numbers were even they could try to force choke the guards, but the guards outnumber them, so I’d they try to choke one they’ll get attacked by another.

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TG_15

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@finalkingthanos: Yeah though this only knocked him back a bit. Had to watch several times due to the sheer speed and the bad lighting.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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Both got stomped by fodder. They kill themselves in r1, and Snoke solos r2.

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rawsos

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@mcflicky said:

Praetorian guards both rounds. Knights of ren were a massive disappointment. A lot of hype for no payoff. Also kylo easily dispatched the knights of ren while the praetorian guards were giving both kylo and rey trouble.

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shroudofsorrow

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#49  Edited By shroudofsorrow

@rawsos: Ben/Kylo was better in IX then he was VIII, so that argument doesn't hold water. I do agree that the Knights were a massive, overhyped disappointment. But they're still good enough to beat the Praetorians.