Knightfall Vader vs Revan

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#1  Edited By Void_Reborn
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vs

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  • Revan at the height of his power/prime
  • Anakin at the start of Order 66
  • Legends only
  • In character
  • Fight to the death
  • Fight takes place in the middle of the Jedi Temple, but it's empty.

Round 1 : Sabers

Round 2 : Force

Round 3 : All-out

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Vader. Being > Zonakin who stomped Dooku and being a tier 9 who can compete with (though not beat) the ROTS titans is more impressive to me than being vastly below SWTOR Vitiate.

Also worth mentioning that SoR Revan's feats were on one of the most potent DS nexuses in the galaxy at the time (one that made Oricon, which could drive Jedi and Sith insane, look like Naboo by comparison) and Revan has been stated to have been going towards the Dark Side even before reviving himself after the fight at the Foundry.

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@void_reborn: When you call yourself out XD. I'm inclined to say Revan comfortably for all three rounds. But I will wait for more versed users to display their verdict.

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Vader. Being > Zonakin who stomped Dooku and being a tier 9 who can compete with (though not beat) the ROTS titans is more impressive to me than being vastly below SWTOR Vitiate.

So, do you think Anakin wins all rounds?

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#6  Edited By FloLikeYou

Wow this one is intense!

Revan is clearly top notch but there’s something so creepy and unsettling about knightfall Anakin that tells me that he wins this one after one HELL of a fight! This right here would be more intense than the duel of fates! By a mile!

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@breakofdawn said:

Vader. Being > Zonakin who stomped Dooku and being a tier 9 who can compete with (though not beat) the ROTS titans is more impressive to me than being vastly below SWTOR Vitiate.

So, do you think Anakin wins all rounds?

Yes. He's much more skilled in sabers and he's more powerful. He doesn't win easily, but he should win.

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@void_reborn: When you call yourself out XD. I'm inclined to say Revan comfortably for all three rounds. But I will wait for more versed users to display their verdict.

Haha lol, this callouts list has been copied several times over from Tenebrous to me, to Flo to Luna to Kirkseven and then back to me. Somewhere along the way my name was added.

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#9  Edited By FloLikeYou

Round 1 : KF Anakin

Round 2 : Revan

Round 3 : Anakin after the most epic fight the galaxy has ever seen.

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@void_reborn said:
@breakofdawn said:

Vader. Being > Zonakin who stomped Dooku and being a tier 9 who can compete with (though not beat) the ROTS titans is more impressive to me than being vastly below SWTOR Vitiate.

So, do you think Anakin wins all rounds?

Yes. He's much more skilled in sabers and he's more powerful. He doesn't win easily, but he should win.

Do you think Revan's versatility in the force could win him a few rounds/play a significant part in the fight?

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@void_reborn said:
@breakofdawn said:
@void_reborn said:
@breakofdawn said:

Vader. Being > Zonakin who stomped Dooku and being a tier 9 who can compete with (though not beat) the ROTS titans is more impressive to me than being vastly below SWTOR Vitiate.

So, do you think Anakin wins all rounds?

Yes. He's much more skilled in sabers and he's more powerful. He doesn't win easily, but he should win.

Do you think Revan's versatility in the force could win him a few rounds/play a significant part in the fight?

Honestly, I didn't really consider his versatility beyond it stopping this from being a stomp. With it, he could definitely take a few rounds in the Force, but Vader's raw power is just so insane it'd be something similar to Novel Vitiate vs Novel Revan, imo. One is more unpredictable and versatile, one is more powerful. Power will win out, but not easily.

All just my personal thoughts of course. Revan's versatility and abilities might be too much for even Vader's power to compensate for.

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Wow this one is intense!

Revan is clearly top notch but there’s something so creepy and unsettling about knightfall Anakin that tells me that he wins this one after one HELL of a fight! This right here would be more intense than the duel of fates! By a mile!

Yeah if in some way the two titans of their vastly different eras who touched both the light and dark side ever met in battle it would be the ultimate clash of skill, power and ferocity.

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Ngl, this is the kind of fight I wish somehow made its way to an animated film or something. I'm not a huge fan of Revan but can't deny he's awesome, and KFV is meant to be Vader at his peak.

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R1: Revan gets his ass whooped.

R2: Revan can possibly edge it out exploiting his superior versatility and knowledge of the Force, but I am not sure if he can deal with Vader’s raw power.

R3: Vader, everytime.

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1) Anakin definitely

2) Likely Revan

3) Very close, I’ll say Anakin though

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#19  Edited By DirtyLuna

@flolikeyou said:

Round 1 : KF Anakin

Round 2 : Revan

Round 3 : Anakin after the most epic fight the galaxy ever saw.

1) Anakin definitely

2) Likely Revan

3) Very close, I’ll say Anakin though

Agreed.

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#20  Edited By reaperace  Moderator

R1- Revan reaches to ignites his saber before both of his hands and legs get cut. Vader uses him as a beautiful nightstand for Padme.

R1- Vader with the good sport he is lets Revan choose to be either choked, crushed, or vaporized

R3- Vader chooses one of the options above

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Vader would decimate Revan in a lightsaber duel, and Revan won't really fair much better in a force contest either.

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#23 reaperace  Moderator

@silentnightz:

Round 3: Anakin would win, there's just not much Revan can do. After he was put in the suit, maybe Revan has a chance but not prior.

The second after he is the suit maybe, not much after. he will get destroyed even more.

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R1: Revan gets his ass whooped.

R2: Revan can possibly edge it out exploiting his superior versatility and knowledge of the Force, but I am not sure if he can deal with Vader’s raw power.

R3: Vader, everytime.

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KF Vader after good fights. I've always seen prime Revan as a council tier duelist (high tier 7/low tier 8), and his force versatility won't be enough to give him a win against someone with so much raw power. But he will certainly make Vader work for it.

Do what? I don't care if you think KF Vader wins.... But to state that Revan is Tier 7 or Low 8 is laughable. There is no one in Tier 8 that Revan wouldn't beat the brakes off.

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@w4nkdestroyer said:

KF Vader after good fights. I've always seen prime Revan as a council tier duelist (high tier 7/low tier 8), and his force versatility won't be enough to give him a win against someone with so much raw power. But he will certainly make Vader work for it.

Do what? I don't care if you think KF Vader wins.... But to state that Revan is Tier 7 or Low 8 is laughable. There is no one in Tier 8 that Revan wouldn't beat the brakes off.

Why do you say that?

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@Aristeaus: Who did Revan beat in a lightsaber duel that's comparable to Dooku?

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#32  Edited By reaperace  Moderator
@silentnightz said:
@reaperace said:

@silentnightz:

Round 3: Anakin would win, there's just not much Revan can do. After he was put in the suit, maybe Revan has a chance but not prior.

The second after he is the suit maybe, not much after. he will get destroyed even more.

Well, once Vader had adjusted to his new living quarters, he was pretty savage but not nearly as good as he once was, both he and Sidious knew this. He lost like 70% of his power due to severe damages sustained from the lava IIRC but was still the biggest baddie walking around the block.

Well, he is stated to be more powerful than his ROTS incarnation by multiple sources,

Many years later, Obi-Wan and Darth Vader duel a second time. The Sith Lord is now more experienced and powerful.

-- Beware The Sith

This duel was very different from their last. Obi-Wan was older and weaker while Vader was even stronger, fueled by hatred and thirst for revenge.

-- Jedi Battles

In his duel against Darth Vader on Bespin, Luke Skywalker reveals himself as an extraordinarily gifted artist with the blade who has largely taught himself. After a single brief session with Obi-Wan Kenobi years ago, and only a short time with Yoda, Skywalker is able to hold up against a Dark Lord of the Sith at the height of his powers.

--Insider 62

His power was great, now, greater than it had ever been. It shimmered from within, and resonated with the waves of darkness that flowed from the Emperor.

-- Return Of The Jedi

More powerful in the Force than ever before as well as a master of the lightsaber, Darth Vader prepares for his final battle as the Rebel fleet hammers the fully operational Death Star.

-- Darth Vader Return Of Anakin Skywalker

these sources coupled with sources saying Vader is as formidable as Sidious in ESB, which is reasonable when Vader has become more skillful with his lightsaber since ROTS and Sidious didn't exceed his mastery over saber after ROTS and Vader rivaling him now in the force, plus ragdolling Starkiller feat I think it's safe to say he is much more powerful now.

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@reaperace: Worth noting that Vader differentiates himself from the person he was before the suit, so he's only referring to Post-ROTS onwards.

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#36 reaperace  Moderator

@breakofdawn: All the sources I provided are not statements by Vader himself. so he is not referring to anything.
this is the only one by himself which is EXACTLY talking about his injuries,

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

-- Lords Of The Sith

So here he is not only talking about post suit.

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@breakofdawn: All the sources I provided are not statements by Vader himself. so he is not referring to anything.

this is the only one by himself which is EXACTLY talking about his injuries,

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

-- Lords Of The Sith

So here he is not only talking about post suit.

The ROTJ one is Vader's ruminations, and Lord of the Sith is Canon. The rest treat Anakin and Vader as two separate entities, as per Lucas they essentially are two different people.

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vader all rounds / spite

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#39  Edited By AnakinVader99

Anakin is literally declared above Revan multiple times and has scaling to suggest he is above Revan not to mention we also have feats better than Revan's

Edit: We have Anakin being declared above Revan in skill

"Lord Vader, your skills are unmatched by any Sith before you. Go forth, my boy. Go forth, and bring peace to our Empire."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Is immensely more powerful than Shaak Ti despite the fact Shaak Ti is a council master which means she is one of the strongest Jedi in that era

Shaak Ti was at the Jedi Temple when Vader attacked, and narrowly escaped death at the hands of the immensely more powerful Sith Lord.

Source: The Official Starships & Vehicles Collection #51

Before turning to the dark side is declared the most powerful Jedi in history multiple times

This is Anakin Skywalker:

The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.

He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Even after all these months, she couldn't make herself entirely believe that actual Jedi blood ran in her veins-not only Jedi blood, but the blood of arguably the most powerful Jedi in history.

Source: Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor

Hell Mace says he is arguably stronger than any jedi alive

"Skywalker is arguably the most powerful Jedi alive, and he is still getting stronger."

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Is stated to have unprecedented power

This makes Anakin, in effect, a Jedi Master, a rank that Anakin, with his unprecedented power in the Force, feels has been long overdue.

Source: Star Wars Miniatures: Ultimate Missions: Revenge of the Sith

Declared the best Djem So duelist Dooku has ever seen which is huge because Dooku has knowledge on Plo Koon, Mace, Saesee Tiin, Yoda and Cin Drallig all of whom have mastered Djem So as well

Skywalker's Shien ready-stance had been a ruse, as had his Ataro gymnastics; the boy was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Vader is stated to repeatedly to be weaker than Anakin is even by George Lucas

And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.

Source: Revenge of the Sith

Where Darth Sidious had gained everything, Vader had lost everything, including—for the moment, at least—the self-confidence and unbridled skill he had demonstrated as Anakin Skywalker.

Source: Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him.

Source: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/02/star-wars-george-lucas-story

"You got it. And when he finds out Luke is his son, his first impulse is to figure out a way of getting him to join him to kill the Emperor. That's what Siths do! He tries it with anybody he thinks might be more powerful, which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor – he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-lucas-and-the-cult-of-darth-vader-20050602
This is a big deal because Vader is declared more powerful than Karness Muur, C'boath,Gethzerion, Kar Vastor and Jerec all of whom are very powerful in their own right
Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, has instilled terror throughout the galaxy since the beginning of the Empire. His devotion to the Emperor and mastery of the dark side gives him more power than any single individual in the galaxy except for the Emperor himself.

-- Shadows Of The Empire: Prince Xizor vs. Darth Vader Action Figure (Kenner)

In his distinctive black armor, Vader is an imposing figure. In the entire galaxy, he is second in power only to the Emperor himself.

-- Insider 65

At the beginning of A New Hope, Darth Vader is so powerful in the Dark Side that he is second in command of the entire galaxy!

-- Adventures Magazine 4

For the first time he could remember, the dark side had no answer. And a great surge of unfamiliar emotion suddenly washed over him.

Darth Vader, the Dark Lord of the Sith's apprentice, one of the two most powerful beings in the galaxy, was afraid.

-- Death Star

To widen the gap even more for people like Jerec Palpatine muses is not even close to Vader in power despite the fact sedriss is stated to be arguably Palpatine's strongest disciple

Perhaps the strongest disciple of Palpatine after Darth Vader, Executor Sedriss remained loyal to the Emperor after the death of his clone over the Rebels' Pinnacle Base.

-- Handbook 3: Dark Empire

As leader of my Dark Side Adepts, Military Executor Sedriss has been the most loyal, and is commended for reviving me here on Byss. But for all his usefulness, Sedriss is only a moderate Force-sensitive, a capable errand boy but hardly the stuff of a Sith apprentice.

-- Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide To The Force

In other words Anakin's power output is very very great by just scaling

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#40 reaperace  Moderator

@breakofdawn: Anakin being addressed as Darth Vader in ROTS novelization, like at operation knightfall, over and over again makes me believe otherwise.
I can agree that Vader doesn't connect himself to his pre-suit self to some degree, but when sources specifically name Darth Vader in a quote, it means from all eras of his life when he was called that.
still, this is not OTP so it's not worth debating.

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@reaperace: Anakin being addressed as Darth Vader in ROTS novelization, like at operation knightfall, over and over again makes me believe otherwise.

Anakin ends the book by saying this:

You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth—And there is one blazing moment in which you finally under-stand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.

That it was all you.

Is you.

Only you.

You did it.

You killed her.

You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself...It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the dark side, the final cruelty of the Sith—Because now your self is all you will ever have.

And you rage and scream and reach through the Force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end, you cannot touch the shadow.In the end, you do not even want to.

After this point, Anakin retreats back into Vader, leaving nothing behind but Vader and the small seeds of Anakin.

I can agree that Vader doesn't connect himself to his pre-suit self to some degree, but when sources specifically name Darth Vader in a quote, it means from all eras of his life when he was called that.

Not necessarily. Most of the sources that do so are in-universe and are written with context, meaning that a source that says for example "Vader was stronger than ever before" is referring to Vader as we know him, not KFV/MFV, who despite their names are still Anakin.

still, this is not OTP so it's not worth debating.

Fair enough. It's an interesting argument, though. Personally, it's what makes Vader one of my favourite characters, understanding what makes him tick and how his life changes because of his own actions (sorry, I'm rambling).

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@reaperace: I should clear up that I meant he'd lost much of his potential, not just outright wouldn't be as powerful ever again. Just had to put some dogs down for trying to misrepresent old posts, not trying to go through that on the SW side.

I hold the opinion that Vader grew more powerful but declined as a lightsaber duelist, talking Legends. Canon is a different story.

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I am surprised so many people accept Anakin is above Revan usually people argue that he isn't

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Vader wins all rounds in a very tough fight

He is a better dualist than Revan by a decent margin, and physically superior as well (with exception to durability). The only things Revan has over Vader is force skill, and battle tactics. His skill with the force and esoteric powers are countered by Vader's sheer raw power with the force, and his tactical abilities are offset by Vader's offensive tenacity.

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I am surprised so many people accept Anakin is above Revan usually people argue that he isn't

I too am surprised. If you take a look at one of the Revan vs Vader threads it has a massive amount of pages and posts. It's almost as crazy as Valk vs Sidious. It seems people agree about KFV being a powerhouse.

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#47 reaperace  Moderator

@breakofdawn:

After this point, Anakin retreats back into Vader, leaving nothing behind but Vader and the small seeds of Anakin.

if we want to make Anakin and Vader to separated characters, Agreed, but it doesn't mean it is the first time he is mostly Vader. KF Vader is not showing any signs of Anakin either and as I mentioned is repeatedly called Darth Vader. but the beauty is he is not referred to as Vader as much at events of Mustafar. making it a more epic duel, a duel between not two but three, Anakin, Vader and Obi-Wan

Personally, it's what makes Vader one of my favourite characters, understanding what makes him tick and how his life changes because of his own actions (sorry, I'm rambling).

Not at all mate, I love debating about Vader too, I mostly see him being lowballed and miss-understood in his power.

and debating with someone as respectful as you is an honour and always a pleasure.

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Vader wins all rounds in a very tough fight

He is a better dualist than Revan by a decent margin, and physically superior as well (with exception to durability). The only things Revan has over Vader is force skill, and battle tactics. His skill with the force and esoteric powers are countered by Vader's sheer raw power with the force, and his tactical abilities are offset by Vader's offensive tenacity.

Superb analysis. Nice work.

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@reaperace: if we want to make Anakin and Vader to separated characters, Agreed, but it doesn't mean it is the first time he is mostly Vader. KF Vader is not showing any signs of Anakin either and as I mentioned is repeatedly called Darth Vader. but the beauty is he is not referred to as Vader as much at events of Mustafar. making it a more epic duel, a duel between not two but three, Anakin, Vader and Obi-Wan

I agree. I'm currently working on a Ben vs Vader blog for ANH that covers similar ideas. Mustafar Vader is a really interesting character because of that. Stover's depiction of the fight is just incredible.

Not at all mate, I love debating about Vader too, I mostly see him being lowballed and miss-understood in his power.

and debating with someone as respectful as you is an honour and always a pleasure.

Pleasure's all mine. Thanks for the debate, it's great to meet people who are genuinely interested and clearly know quite a bit about Legends.