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#1 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

The battle takes place where Dooku dueled Obi-Wan and Anakin in Episode 2.

All 3 characters are the Episode 3 versions.

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#2 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm... 
 
All of them are about equal in speed and other physical attributes. I think Ki-Adi might be the weak link. As a lightsaber practitioner, his skills are not nearly as developed as Dooku or Fisto, as far as I have seen. In Force skills, he has telekinetically lifted a huge skiff, but this is not nearly enough to outweigh Tyranus' own potency in that area. He possesses a few other notable TP and Heal abilities but nothing that would really help to a considerable margin in a fight. As for Fisto, he is one of the Order's better duelist, but I have seen nothing from him to place him on Dooku's level, although he could challenge him better than Ki-Adi could. As for Fisto's own Force powers, they, like Mundi's, would fail to overwhelm Tyranus. Dooku has handled teams of Jedi of comparable skill and power before; he should be able to do so again here for a majority. Dooku should win a 7-8/10 majority, in my opinion. Good fight.

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#3 Posted by GhostRider29 (2956 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

Hmm... All of them are about equal in speed and other physical attributes. I think Ki-Adi might be the weak link. As a lightsaber practitioner, his skills are not nearly as developed as Dooku or Fist, as far as I have seen. In Force skills, he has telekinetically lifted a huge skiff, but this is not nearly enough to outweigh Tyranus' own potency in that area. He possesses a few other notable TP and Heal abilities but nothing that would really help to a considerable margin in a fight. As for Fisto, he is one of the Order's better duelist, but I have seen nothing from him to place him on Dooku's level, although he could challenge him better than Ki-Adi could. As for Fisto's own Force powers, they, like Mundi's, would fail to overwhelm Tyranus. Dooku has handled teams of Jedi of comparable skill and power before; he should be able to do so again here for a majority. Dooku should win a 7/10 majority, in my opinion. Good fight.

Although I don't disagree with you, these are just movie versions. Fisto and Mundi are featless in episode 3. So just based on feats from the movies, dooku destroys. But Fisto would last longer.

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#4 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (463 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooku

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#5 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@GhostRider29: In all of MaceWindu's threads, he specifies a movie version yet takes no issue with me or anyone else when we discuss EU showings. So unless he does isolate this purely to the movies here, I am not about to retract what I said, especially since, as you pointed out, Fisto and Mundi are featless rendering the thread largely pointless.
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#6 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29: Actually they are the versions at the time of Ep 3 so any feat they ever accoplished before Ep 3 counts...just thought I would clear that up.

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#7 Posted by GhostRider29 (2956 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467 said:

@GhostRider29: In all of MaceWindu's threads, he specifies a movie version yet takes no issue with or anyone else when we discuss EU showings. So unless he does isolate this purely to the movies here, I am not about to retract what I said, especially since, as you pointed out, Fisto and Mundi are featless rendering the thread largely pointless.

@MaceWindu said:

@GhostRider29: Actually they are the versions at the time of Ep 3 so any feat they ever accoplished before Ep 3 counts...just thought I would clear that up.

Okay Nevermind. Dooku still wins though.

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#8 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: I agree.... Dooku Defeated Sora Bulq and Tholme and he defeated Kenobi and Skywalker in Ep 2 and he defeat Ventress and Opress in a 2 on 1 fight plus I think he could haveone that duel in ep 3 aswell if he had of tried harder and not held back Because I think his job wasn't to kill Anakin but to draw out the rage in him. But thats off-topic.

Also Force Lightning gives Dooku a bit of an advantage.

Btw Nice Avatar.

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#9 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@MaceWindu: No, Dooku was certainly holding back against Obi-Wan and Anakin in RotS at first, but he fought as well as he could later on and still lost. The circumstances surrounding Anakin's victory over Dooku mainly pertains to Djem So vs Makashi and Anakin's using the dark side. 
 
Lightning could be useful if he has the opportunity to use it. 
 
Thanks.
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#10 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@GhostRider29: I agree.

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#11 Posted by Hyperlight (7671 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree that the movie versions would probably loose based on feats

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#12 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Oh yeah I see thanks.

And yeah I think if Dooku could disarm either of the two jedi for a few seconds he could deal damage with the lightning but thats only if he could disarm either of them because they could use there Lightsaber's to block the Lightning.

And do you think if you replaced Mundi with Windu that team jedi would have a better chance of defeating Dooku. (Sorry for going off topic )

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#13 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@MaceWindu said: 

And do you think if you replaced Mundi with Windu that team jedi would have a better chance of defeating Dooku. (Sorry for going off topic )

They would probably win under that scenario.
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#14 Posted by MaceWindu (51 posts) - - Show Bio

@Silver2467: Maybe but Dooku was very skilled.

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#15 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

doouku

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#16 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@MaceWindu said:


                   

@Silver2467: Maybe but Dooku was very skilled.



                   

               

Windu beat Palpatine so i think that Windu would win...if he was in the battle. 
 
But i think Dooku wins after a good fight Kit fisto is second rate and Ki Adi Mundi didn't even put up a struggle during order 66.
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#17 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people always feel the need to comment on characters they know nothing about?

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#18 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:


                    Why do people always feel the need to comment on characters they know nothing about?

                   

               

Dude are you trolling me?
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#19 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@acer51: No. I am remarking on your severe lack of knowledge of the characters.
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#20 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:


                    @acer51: No. I am remarking on your severe lack of knowledge of the characters.

                    

               Your trolling me, if you have somthing aganst my post state so instead of just insulting me.
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#21 Posted by Baltoro (1822 posts) - - Show Bio

Kit Fisto died in like 1 sec from Palpatine, while Dooku was a top tier Jedi. So this other Ki Adi Money guy won't be enough to carry Kit Fisto to victory against a Sith Lord Apprentice.

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#22 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:


                    @acer51: No. I am remarking on your severe lack of knowledge of the characters.

                   

               

Well? do you have actual reason to insult my knowledge? or was that just petty trolling?
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#23 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah thats what i thought. 
 
Im going to get back on topic if the thread dosn't drown now.
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#24 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs…

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil
  

Balanced on the balls of their feet, Mace and Kit hooked their lightsabers to their belts and drifted back down into the vestibule, as gently as the Force allowed.

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil
 

"Forget not the existence of Sidious. Anticipate your action, he may. Masters will be necessary, if the Lord of the Sith you must face."
"I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already."

"Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?" 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith 
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
Fisto is clearly second rate. -_-
 

Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Tiin, and Ki-Adi-Mundi surged from the pyramid entrance, engaging the terrorists that had driven them back. A quarter of the way across the immense plaza, the Jedi spread out in a wedge formation, their constantly moving blades fending off blaster bolts loosed from ahead and to either side. Behind the energy barrier fashioned by the lightsabers, Yaddle, Depa, Vergere, and two of the judicials raced out to divert fire from the rear.

Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Ki-Adi-Mundi stood with their backs pressed to one another, deflecting a hail of blaster bolts the terrorists poured into the plaza. The blades of their lightsabers—green, blue, and purple—moved faster than the eye could follow, blazing bright as novas as they sent the bolts caroming from the ancient stone walls and ricocheting off the sloping faces of the pyramids.

--Taken from Cloak of Deception  
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And obviously Ki-Adi is no threat at all.... 
 
As for Mace beating Palpatine, doing so while amped doesn't count, and that assumes Mace really won, in spite of all the hints the RotS novel gave that contradict that. To repost an assessment I said elsewhere
As for Mace, let's establish this here and now: Whether you believe Mace definitively beat Palpatine or not is irrelevant. We know for a fact that Mace is not a better duelist than Sidious is, as the two reached a perfect impasse in their duel based on pure skill, and we know that Mace was radically amped during that duel, granting him greater speed and power for that one occasion. To put that into context: Vaapad is an off-shoot of Juyo that allows the user to channel darkness in order to harness it without becoming enslaved to it. The potency of this is decreased or magnified by the amount of darker emotions present in the user. When Mace discovered that Palpatine was a Sith, his attachment to the Republic shattered, and because of that, there was a colossal increase in the darkness within Mace. That coupled with Palpatine's darkness and Anakin's power allowed Mace to augment his abilities for that one fight. He reached a fighting state he had never managed before, and we know that Vaapad does not normally amp the user as it did there. If it did, Mace would never have lost to Kar Vastor or lost to Dooku or only stalemated General Grievous or only fought evenly with Sora Bulq. In every other instance, Vaapad had limitations based on what the darkness within Mace was usually . However, in RotS, the darkness in Mace was drastically increased, giving him a temporary power amp. 
 

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening. 
Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue. 
Impasse.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith 
 
Stop commenting on characters you know nothing about.
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#25 Posted by Fetts (6241 posts) - - Show Bio
@acer51: He didn't mean to offend you at all. It's just that you and many others, (including myself occasionally) lack Star Wars knowledge. And for the most part Silver is quite patient with everybody, in which I for one, appreciate. 
 
Earlier you said that Windu beat Palpatine. But Palpatine went easy on Mace Windu. JediXMan gave me evidence of that that I will now quote from him. 
 
"1. Palpatine is the one that told Anakin to alert the Jedi (or at least pushed him into it)
2. Palpatine telepathically taunted Anakin into coming to his "rescue." 
3. Now I respect Mace Windu's ability and I credit him with being a good duelist. But come on. Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto fell within seconds. Mace is above them, yes, but they're also legendary Masters in their own right. 
4. Palpatine rarely utilized Force powers in the entire duel until the end, when Anakin was there. 
5. Anakin arrived at the exact moment when Palpatine was "losing." 
6. People keep saying that Mace did scar Palpatine because his use of vaapad redirected Palpatine's lightnight back on him. However, explain why this scarred face is identical to his dark side withered face that occurred when his clone bodies couldn't hold his power. It's likely he used Force concealment - or a variation thereof - to hide his true face.
7. In one of the Star Wars insiders (you'll have to take my word for it right now, since I can't find the issue), it calls Mace Windu thesecond best lightsaber duelist on the Council, the best being Yoda. Palpatine beat Yoda in the lightsaber portion of their duel. 
 
The only evidence that I see most people use in favor of Mace is that Windu's vaapad overcame Palpatine. I'm sorry but I see that as a weak argument."-JXM
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#26 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:


                   

To the rear of the car, where Grievous's pair of MagnaGuards had made the mistake of pitting themselves against Kit Fisto, the Nautolan's blade was a cyclone of blazing blue light. Resistant to the energy outpourings of a lightsaber, the phrik alloy staffs were potent weapons, but like any weapon they needed to find their target, and Kit simply wasn't allowing that. In moves a Twi'lek dancer might envy, he spun around the guards, claiming a limb from both with each rotation: left legs, right arms, right legs…

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil
  

Balanced on the balls of their feet, Mace and Kit hooked their lightsabers to their belts and drifted back down into the vestibule, as gently as the Force allowed.

--Taken from Labyrinth of Evil

 

"Forget not the existence of Sidious. Anticipate your action, he may. Masters will be necessary, if the Lord of the Sith you must face."
"I have chosen four of our best. Master Tiin, Master Kolar, and Master Fisto are all here, in the Temple. They are preparing already."

"Anakin, why? The Masters are the best of the Order. What can you possibly do?" 

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith 
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7
Fisto is clearly second rate. -_-
 

Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Tiin, and Ki-Adi-Mundi surged from the pyramid entrance, engaging the terrorists that had driven them back. A quarter of the way across the immense plaza, the Jedi spread out in a wedge formation, their constantly moving blades fending off blaster bolts loosed from ahead and to either side. Behind the energy barrier fashioned by the lightsabers, Yaddle, Depa, Vergere, and two of the judicials raced out to divert fire from the rear.

Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Ki-Adi-Mundi stood with their backs pressed to one another, deflecting a hail of blaster bolts the terrorists poured into the plaza. The blades of their lightsabers—green, blue, and purple—moved faster than the eye could follow, blazing bright as novas as they sent the bolts caroming from the ancient stone walls and ricocheting off the sloping faces of the pyramids.

--Taken from Cloak of Deception  
Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6Gallery image 7Gallery image 8Gallery image 9Gallery image 10Gallery image 11Gallery image 12Gallery image 13Gallery image 14Gallery image 15
And obviously Ki-Adi is no threat at all.... 
 
As for Mace beating Palpatine, doing so while amped doesn't count, and that assumes Mace really won, in spite of all the hints the RotS novel gave that contradict that. To repost an assessment I said elsewhere
As for Mace, let's establish this here and now: Whether you believe Mace definitively beat Palpatine or not is irrelevant. We know for a fact that Mace is not a better duelist than Sidious is, as the two reached a perfect impasse in their duel based on pure skill, and we know that Mace was radically amped during that duel, granting him greater speed and power for that one occasion. To put that into context: Vaapad is an off-shoot of Juyo that allows the user to channel darkness in order to harness it without becoming enslaved to it. The potency of this is decreased or magnified by the amount of darker emotions present in the user. When Mace discovered that Palpatine was a Sith, his attachment to the Republic shattered, and because of that, there was a colossal increase in the darkness within Mace. That coupled with Palpatine's darkness and Anakin's power allowed Mace to augment his abilities for that one fight. He reached a fighting state he had never managed before, and we know that Vaapad does not normally amp the user as it did there. If it did, Mace would never have lost to Kar Vastor or lost to Dooku or only stalemated General Grievous or only fought evenly with Sora Bulq. In every other instance, Vaapad had limitations based on what the darkness within Mace was usually . However, in RotS, the darkness in Mace was drastically increased, giving him a temporary power amp. 
 

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening. 
Anakin could feel how the Force fed upon the shadow's murderous exaltation; he could feel fury spray into the Force though some poisonous abscess had crested in both their hearts.

Mace was deep in it now: submerged in Vaapad, swallowed by it, he no longer truly existed as an independent being. Vaapad is a channel for darkness, and that darkness flowed both ways. He accepted the furious speed of the Sith Lord, drew the shadow's rage and power into his inmost center—And let it fountain out again. He reflected the fury upon its source as a lightsaber redirects a blaster bolt.

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue. 
Impasse.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith  Stop commenting on characters you know nothing about.

                   

               
Did i ever imply that either Kit Fisto or Mundi werent a challenge at all? 
 
They are both very experianced and awsomely powerfull masters, but neither of them in my oppinion, will beat Dooku. 
 
And has for the Mace Windu, that is a perfectly good theory on how Mace Windu was doing so well aganst Palpatine, but it dosn't in any way discredit Mace Winus ability to beat Dooku, not that it even matters because he's not in this battle.

So in what way was i ignorant? 
 
Forgive me for implying this if it's not true, but i think you've been insulting me out of spite from a previous debate, stop flaming me and just politly debate like evreyone else.
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#27 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@acer51 said: 
Did i ever imply that either Kit Fisto or Mundi werent a challenge at all?
If saying that Fisto is "second rate" and attempting to lowball Ki-Adi by pointing out that he was killed by clone troopers was your way of showing how formidable they can be, you certainly had me fooled. 
 
And has for the Mace Windu, that is a perfectly good theory on how Mace Windu was doing so well aganst Palpatine, but it dosn't in any way discredit Mace Winus ability to beat Dooku, not that it even matters because he's not in this battle.
Actually, it does. Using an invalid feat as "proof" that he can beat Dooku is not proof at all. And Dooku can beat Mace as well. 
 

Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

--Taken from the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook    
 
So in what way was i ignorant?
Because you needed me to post showings by Fisto and Ki-Adi for you to take them seriously, when you should have just read about them before commenting. 
 
Forgive me for implying this if it's not true, but i think you've been insulting me out of spite from a previous debate, stop flaming me and just politly debate like evreyone else.
Cool story, bro.
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#28 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts said:


                    @acer51: He didn't mean to offend you at all. It's just that you and many others, (including myself occasionally) lack Star Wars knowledge. And for the most part Silver is quite patient with everybody, in which I for one, appreciate. 
 
Earlier you said that Windu beat Palpatine. But Palpatine went easy on Mace Windu. JediXMan gave me evidence of that that I will now quote from him. 
 
"1. Palpatine is the one that told Anakin to alert the Jedi (or at least pushed him into it)
2. Palpatine telepathically taunted Anakin into coming to his "rescue." 
3. Now I respect Mace Windu's ability and I credit him with being a good duelist. But come on. Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto fell within seconds. Mace is above them, yes, but they're also legendary Masters in their own right. 
4. Palpatine rarely utilized Force powers in the entire duel until the end, when Anakin was there. 
5. Anakin arrived at the exact moment when Palpatine was "losing." 
6. People keep saying that Mace did scar Palpatine because his use of vaapad redirected Palpatine's lightnight back on him. However, explain why this scarred face is identical to his dark side withered face that occurred when his clone bodies couldn't hold his power. It's likely he used Force concealment - or a variation thereof - to hide his true face.
7. In one of the Star Wars insiders (you'll have to take my word for it right now, since I can't find the issue), it calls Mace Windu thesecond best lightsaber duelist on the Council, the best being Yoda. Palpatine beat Yoda in the lightsaber portion of their duel.  The only evidence that I see most people use in favor of Mace is that Windu's vaapad overcame Palpatine. I'm sorry but I see that as a weak argument."-JXM

                   

               

I agree that Palpitine did let Mace Windu win to some extent he, i do think however that Windu was forcing Sidous to push himself quite a bit. 
 
But if you bellive Windu to be on Yodas level (some dont) then you can bellive that Windu gave Palppatine a good fight at least, and i do think that if Anakin hadn't sided with Sidous at the end then Windu would be able to kill him, (even though Palpatine let Windu back him into a corner in order to look like the "good guy" to Anakin) But it does prove Windu is powerfull enough to beat Dooku. 
 
 
And to be honest i was afraid this would happen if i said that Windu had beaten Sidous, but i didn't think it was that big a deal. 
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#29 Posted by acer51 (2695 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:


                    @acer51 said: 
Did i ever imply that either Kit Fisto or Mundi werent a challenge at all?
If saying that Fisto is "second rate" and attempting to lowball Ki-Adi by pointing out that he was killed by clone troopers was your way of showing how formidable they can be, you certainly had me fooled. 
 
And has for the Mace Windu, that is a perfectly good theory on how Mace Windu was doing so well aganst Palpatine, but it dosn't in any way discredit Mace Winus ability to beat Dooku, not that it even matters because he's not in this battle.
Actually, it does. Using an invalid feat as "proof" that he can beat Dooku is not proof at all. And Dooku can beat Mace as well. 
 

Master Windu was also known within the Order for his unusual fighting style, one that he developed after studying the dueling styles of various lightsaber masters. His attacks consisted of relentless, unpredictable blows, like shots from an autoblaster. Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective.

--Taken from the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook    
 
So in what way was i ignorant?
Because you needed me to post showings by Fisto and Ki-Adi for you to take them seriously, when you should have just read about them before commenting. 
 
Forgive me for implying this if it's not true, but i think you've been insulting me out of spite from a previous debate, stop flaming me and just politly debate like evreyone else.

                   

               
Cool story, bro.

                   

               

Lets be honest Dooku wouldn't have goten killed by his own troops that easily, and Kit fisto is a master but he is not on Dookus level, if you look at it from Dookus level, Kit fisto is second rate,( just like we call lower tier super-heros second raters even though people far below them are experts) 
 
The postings of Ki-adi mundai and Fisto did not make me take them any more seriosly then before, i've seen them both do things just as or more impresive. 
 
So i still think after this that Dooku would have a good chalenge but then beat them, and guess what? acording to your own posts you think Dooku should be able to beat them worse then i do, so basicly what your doing is agreeing with me and going aganst me, at the same time. 
 
So i have a question, are you arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me?
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#30 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@acer51 said: 

Lets be honest Dooku wouldn't have goten killed by his own troops that easily, and Kit fisto is a master but he is not on Dookus level, if you look at it from Dookus level, Kit fisto is second rate,( just like we call lower tier super-heros second raters even though people far below them are experts)

I like how you think underselling characters is a prudent method of debating. Nobody calls a formidable character second rate. 
 

The postings of Ki-adi mundai and Fisto did not make me take them any more seriosly then before, i've seen them both do things just as or more impresive.

Right...  
 
Would you care to name any of these feats that are more impressive than the ones I posted?
 

So i still think after this that Dooku would have a good chalenge but then beat them, and guess what? acording to your own posts you think Dooku should be able to beat them worse then i do, so basicly what your doing is agreeing with me and going aganst me, at the same time.  So i have a question, are you arguing with me just for the sake of arguing with me?

Or you just have no idea what the point of my posts is. I was calling you out for your blatant lack of knowledge of the characters and your intended lowballing, because both were evident, and I corrected you on it. The outcome being the same has nothing to do with what I said.
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#31 Edited by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio


*Looks above him and rolls eyes at squabbling* 
 
Here is my take. 
 
Ki Adi Mundi, is a Master of the Ataru Lightsaber form, while Kit Fisto is a Master of Shii-Cho.  
Both of these Lightsaber styles are considerably unsuited for battle againist such a endurence -taking 
battle-style such as Dooku's Mastery of Makashi. 
 
Let us remember that when Sidious defeated Kit Fisto(who lasted longer than the other Masters), he was utilizing 
Makashi to exploit Fisto's weakness in Shii-Cho. 
 
 
For those of you who are not AWARE of Shii-Cho, it is a Combat-Style best suited for tackling multiple opponents 
at the same time, exerting basic blocking techniques and acrobatic movements to create a confusion. 
 
Ataru, is an incredibly Acrobatic Form, full of fury and strength, but also requires the space to correctly apply 
most moves, and can be strenous upon long-length Lightsaber duels.  
 
Makashi is made for long drawn-out Lightsaber duels, which makes it the superior combat-style to be fighting with. 
 It IS a given that Makashi is made for solo-duels, but thats only a slight disadvantage here.
 
Let us look at  Ki Adi Mundi's feats.  

 
SURVIVED againist General Grevious 
 
Fought Asajj Ventress to a Stalemate and had her on the retreat. 
 
 
 
Ki Adi Mundi(If you watched and/or read the event) would most likely 
have DIED if he had continued to fight Grevious. And this was only due 
to his machine-like attacks which bombarded him with too much that he  
could handle defensively. 
 
Ataru is an offensive form, and is not by any means good defensively. 
 
 
Kit Fisto however, upon facing General Grevious(If you watch the TV series, like the Nerd I am) 
utilized his Shii-Cho effectively, and was basicly making a mockery out of him 
untill his reinforcements arrived. 
 
 
 
I actually consider Kit Fisto to be a superior fighter to Ki Adi Mundi, but both of their fighting styles 
are useless againist the battle-flurry of a well-trained Sith Apprentice, such as Darth Tyrannous. 
 
 
That is all, Thank you.

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#32 Posted by Fetts (6241 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that Palpitine did let Mace Windu win to some extent he, i do think however that Windu was forcing Sidous to push himself quite a bit.                                          
Not true. Palpatine has feats that make Master Samuel L. Jackson that blow his feats out of the water. Moving ships the size of an entire fleet, transferring his soul to another being, creating hyperspace wormholes are just a few of those feats. The guy was trained by Darth Plagueis, the Sith he was talking to Anakin about that had the ability to create life. Palpatine was the apprentice that killed Plagueis in his sleep.
@acer51 said: 
         
 But if you bellive Windu to be on Yodas level (some dont) then you can bellive that Windu gave Palppatine a good fight at least, and i do think that if Anakin hadn't sided with Sidous at the end then Windu would be able to kill him, (even though Palpatine let Windu back him into a corner in order to look like the "good guy" to Anakin) But it does prove Windu is powerfull enough to beat Dooku.  
Mace Windu was only second to Yoda in the Jedi Order at that time. And yes it appeared that he did give Palpatine a hard time. But Palpatine purposely kept Mace Windu alive long enough for Anakin to arrive so Palpatine could turn over the Chosen One to the dark side in an attempt to ruin the Prophecy. Therefore it does not prove that he can beat Dooku. Windu and Dooku are considered equals. I too thought that Mace Windu seemed to be superior. But if you take a look at Dooku's feats, they're pretty even. 
 And to be honest i was afraid this would happen if i said that Windu had beaten Sidous, but i didn't think it was that big a deal. 
Usually when it's mentioned, it does turn out to be a big deal.
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#33 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said: 

 
Let us remember that when Sidious defeated Kit Fisto(who lasted longer than the other Masters), he was utilizing 
Makashi to exploit Fisto's weakness in Shii-Cho.

Where was it stated that Palpatine used Makashi against Fisto? 
 
@Fetts said: 
Moving ships the size of an entire fleet
When did he do this?
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#34 Posted by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467
 
Palpatine knows ALL the Lightsaber Forms.  He is a Master of just about everything.  As he is a "Swordmaster". 
 
Granted that it is not entirely confirmed that Makashi was utilized againist Kit Fisto, but it is an educated speculation made by many Geeks of Star Warsism, that he utilized 
Makashi to make quick-judgement of Kit Fisto. 
 
Remember that each of the Masters he fought in the encounter in the Senate-Office were Masters, and well-esteemed.  He likely used their exploits to defeat them immediately. 
And Shii-cho has no greater weakness than Makashi. 
 
 
Don't flame-bait me bro.
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#35 Posted by Fetts (6241 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467
I think this is it. In another instance he did solo an entire fleet yes?
I think this is it. In another instance he did solo an entire fleet yes?
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#36 Edited by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:

@Silver2467:  Palpatine knows ALL the Lightsaber Forms.  He is a Master of just about everything.  As he is a "Swordmaster".  Granted that it is not entirely confirmed that Makashi was utilized againist Kit Fisto, but it is an educated speculation made by many Geeks of Star Warsism, that he utilized Makashi to make quick-judgement of Kit Fisto.  Remember that each of the Masters he fought in the encounter in the Senate-Office were Masters, and well-esteemed.  He likely used their exploits to defeat them immediately. And Shii-cho has no greater weakness than Makashi.

Or maybe Palpatine was just too fast for him, as he was for Saesee and Kolar. Fisto is no faster than Saesee or Kolar, whom Palpatine speed blitzed, nor is he faster than Anakin, who was unable to even see the movements of Sidious' blade. More than likely, Palpatine's speed quickly overwhelmed Fisto, just as it did the former two Masters.
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#37 Edited by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts
 
Wow.....I didn't even think Sidious could do that. 
 
Yet he gets killed by Vader? I am smelling some PIS.....or possibly WIS.
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#38 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts said:
@Silver2467
I think this is it. In another instance he did solo an entire fleet yes?
I think this is it. In another instance he did solo an entire fleet yes?
Ah. I think you mis-typed your point. You said Palpatine moved a ship the size of a fleet, which sounds like a display of Telekinesis. This is destroying a ship the size of a fleet.  
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#39 Posted by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467
 
Quite possibly, but thats a debate for the future.   
 
My point still stands that Shii-Cho and Ataru aren't the best forms to go up to Makashi with.  
 
Can we agree on that?
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#40 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn: I guess, but you have to remember that Yoda is an Ataru practitioner. And Yoda has beaten Dooku twice, one of which instances happened while Dooku was amped by the Force energies on Vjun.
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#41 Posted by Fetts (6241 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: Ah. My mistake. But didn't he also solo an entire fleet at one point as well? 
 
@Sufferthorn: Well, in Palpatine's defense he had trusted Vader for years and probably wasn't expecting him to betray him. Palpatine once stated that Vader's loyalty to the Empire was unquestioned.
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#42 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Fetts
This should answer your question. 
This should answer your question. 
You should read the Dark Empire trilogy for yourself. Between its light/dark extrapolations, OT parallels, and characterization, it is definitely worth it.
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#43 Posted by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467

Yoda beating Dooku is a whole different ball game........let's not even go there. 
 
It has nothing to do with the Forms in this case....Yoda is just better. Period.
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#44 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:
It has nothing to do with the Forms in this case....Yoda is just better. Period.
I agree. Yoda is the best duelist in the Order. But he is an Ataru adept nonetheless and, bearing that in mind, has beaten Dooku. That was my only point. 
 
Regardless, I think we all concur that Dooku would probably win a majority against Fisto and Ki-Adi.
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#45 Posted by Fetts (6241 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
@Fetts
This should answer your question. 
This should answer your question. 
You should read the Dark Empire trilogy for yourself. Between its light/dark extrapolations, OT parallels, and characterization, it is definitely worth it.
After those scans I'm certainly tempted to do so. 
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#46 Posted by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467

Yeah....i think everybody on this thread agrees on that......i guess you were trying to keep the thread alive by playing Devils Advocate or somethin.  
 
 
I dunno. =P
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#47 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn: Not really. Just clearing up misconceptions.
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#48 Posted by Sufferthorn (1780 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467

Right.........you know it's OKAY if people disagree with you right?  
 
Anyway, i'm done here. Have peace bro.
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#49 Posted by Silver2467 (16759 posts) - - Show Bio
@Sufferthorn said:
@Silver2467: Right.........you know it's OKAY if people disagree with you right?
Not exactly sure what your point is with this. Just because I explain a disagreement I have with people, that equates to me being incapable of accepting that people are of a different line of thinking? This is a debate forum. Hence, I debate with people. Simple.
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#50 Posted by Hyperlight (7671 posts) - - Show Bio

Mace is one of the most powerful jedi at the time and the orders best duelist.... the only people that could possibly beat him at the time in a lightsaber battle would be yoda and dooku because of his mastery of Makashi....