Kisuke Urahara (Bleach) vs Morris Libadert (Black Clover)

Can we please wait for some more feats for morris before these kind of matches?

I was against the conceptual manipulation for BC until this chapter where Morris nullified fate magic. I believe conceptual hax for BC gods devils is decent.

But it is not the kind of conceptual hax that people try to present here. Here's the thing Morris, Lilith and Naamah by their own words can affect invisible concepts, such as for example Fate, BUT that's it. They can't for example erase a concept of someone's power or ability or affect a character on conceptual level, like erase them.

There's a reason those guys just don't erase the concept of matter around them, or the concept of humanity of their opponents, they attack physically or using magic which deals normal damage.

Their conceptual manipulation is the ability to affect something that exist on conceptual level it's a sort of range, they can't not erase anything and everything because their conceptual hax is strong. If some planet level character fires a ball of energy, they can't destroy it conceptually because it's not what their conceptual hax is about.

@greythejiren: So how do you think Morris' concept hax affects this matchup?

Depends on Kisuke's strength and if he has any "invisible coneptual" ability that needs to be affected and nullified.

While it's true that Morris can affect invisible concepts but if those concepts are above his level of strength it shouldn't work.

@greythejiren: But what concepts would be above his level? I think this is where debates on this ability get started. I agree that Morris can't just manipulate any concept he wants. Otherwise there's no way he'd ever lose. But at the same time, it's hard to quantify what he CAN do. Fate seems like one of those concepts that people would say were above the Twin devils' level. But clearly Morris was able to completely ignore it.

But what concepts would be above his level?

Those who have bigger magic power.

But at the same time, it's hard to quantify what he CAN do.

It is fairly easy, he can affect conceptual magic abilities as long as those are in his level of power. That's it, his conceptual hax doesn't ignore durability or affect other concepts such as humans, earth, buildings. Until he shows such abilities, he doesn't have them.

Twin Devils would also ignore Fate hax since they can affect invisible concepts and their magic is vastly superior to Vanessa. If Twin devils hit a Planet level character with their flames and ice, nothing will happen, it won't leave a scratch. But here's the thing, if that Planet level character was conceptual, regular ice and fire wouldn't hit it, but Twins would, doesn't mean they could kill it though, they still have to overcome Planet level.

It all comes down to strength, their conceptual hax gives them the ability to affect conceptual magic, that's it. They can't destroy something on a conceptual level.

Wait what? They can only affect conceptual magic? that kinda makes no sense morris and lilith and naamah can affect normal invisible concepts it was never stated that he can only affect conceptual magic I don't really think we need to over complicate a simple thing like some people have already have.

Anyways if morris has luficero's abilities he should be able to win

@lichgod3: He might have access to a similar set of spell in line Dante’s. But, we’ll find out soon enough.

OT: If Morris is smart enough… he’ll opt to immobilize Kisuke via gravity magic and then disassemble him with his modification

in all seriousness tho, Kisuke isn’t an opponent he can afford to take lightly.

Morris Conceptual Manipulation isn't limited to Magic.

While sure he can't manipulate concepts that govern reality such as Time, Space or existence until he proves otherwise, we know it some Concepts other than magic that he can affect.

1/ Attributes. Morris can manipulate the attribute of others as seen with Mars and Fana

2/ Living Beings. Morris could alter a bunch of devils

3/ Knowledge. Borrowed Lolopechka's 1200 years of Heart Kingdom's wisdom.

4/ Causality. Rouge can manipulate fate and bring even impossible outcomes to reality but Morris bypassed this by affecting concepts.

5/ Principles. Altered the requirements of the advent of Qliphoth and the order of the gates of the Demon World

So saying it is limited to Magic or his level of Power is nothing but an headcanonic way of downplaying his feats.

Anyways. For this battle, I don't know who's smarter so I'll assume both are equal. With all the things Morris can manipulate (Causality, Knowledge, etc), if Urahara gets touched even once, he's done

@greythejiren: That makes 0 sense lmao. 1 that's ur headcanon as it was stated if u touch Morris u die, 2 the twins clapped Nacht so if we were going by ur logic Nacht shouldn't have been all bloody and beat up. Nacht himself isn't conceptual, he has a spell that is, so then they shouldn't have clapped him. That doesn't even make sense from a story standpoint, y would u have characters that can affect concepts but can't do anything else. They would literally be easy to beat bc they would be useful for affecting concepts. Plz read and think lol

@epsilonr: Exactly. Morris isn’t an opponent u can afford to take lightly, not when a single touch could cost u the entire match. Especially, if u were to underestimate his capabilities.

@epsilonr:

2/ Living Beings. Morris could alter a bunch of devils

Wasn't this due to his modification magic and not his concept manip.

Morris didn’t live up to the hype

@akira21: I kinda agree with you, seems like a single hit from Asta really fucked him up. Dunno if that speaks more about Morris or Asta.

@one_of_two: yeah hopefully next chapter we see Lucifero coming out of the gate.

@akira21: I think Tabata did him dirty or I had too much expectations for someone facing off against the BB. Either way… I’d have hope to at least see a Devil Host at a 100% doing their thing without being severely restricted (albeit we did kinda get that with Zenon).

But, All in all… we had at least gonna some more context into abilities that are said to affect concept (especially…..for those who doubted it prowess). I still do believe him to be a lethal threat non-the-less (where abilities are concern).

@kade17: U expected to much, he had to vs all of the overpowered bulls. It was legit impossible for him to win, I expected this to happen

@samsaknight: I mean… I expected him to lose that’s for sure but I guess ur right! The bulls are a force to be reckoned with that’s for certain

Kisuke stomps

Morris seems to be fodder.

@namebk: Nah… I don’t think he’s fodder but his defeat did leave a bad after taste.

@kade17: He got hurt from a punch by base Asta and everyone else seems to be in their base forms too. That's unacceptable from someone using the strongest being in BC. He also doesn't seem to know how to use gravity as well as Dante. This could all change next chapter if he gets an amp or something.

@namebk: Touché! But for what it’s worth Asta anti magic capabilities’ still a ever-persistent threat nonetheless (especially… factoring that Devil arm of his). As a result, I don’t know how to fully interpret him being bamboozled by Asta and company. But at the same time u do speak the truth.

Tho…tbh, I don’t think his showing takes away entirely from Morris’ ability to be lethality (since all that is required of him is a touch to claim victory).

So, do I think he’s still a viable character to be used? Well, Yes. But He’d probably work better on team matches.

Urahara beats Morris with first using one his Gigai tricks on him then goes to town on him with Kido + Benihime attacks.

@wiseforages: Don’t u think Morris might be able to work around that using Gravity Magic: PoTDK (given its range). He could then opt to immobilize Kisuke enough to possibly touch him (tho that might depend on whether or not he’s as skill as Sante with gravity magic?)? Not saying he wins here but I do think there are viable option for him here?

@kade17: We aren't sure how exactly the touch works and I'm pretty sure there will be some kind of limitation on it or else it's just nlf. Morris is cocky too which is something he can't afford to be against Kisuke. Base Dante was capable of one shotting black bulls members with his gravity but Morris who seems to be using at least 80% can't. He should be able to win this matchup if he used Lucifero's powers correctly but he seems so incompetent with them lol.

Morris stomps

Morris just got one piece'd LMAO 🤣 Talk about disappointing

@namebk: It was stated if u touch him in die lmao, how do u put a limitation on that? It's the same thing throughout the series, Asta can cancel any magic, Jack can cut through anything. Morris doesn't let his cockiness get in the way, unlike Dante lol. Y are we comparing half of a weak squad fighting against Dante, ofc he one shot them lmao. When he came to the base, it was only an exhausted Henry a weak Grey, a weak Vanessa and weak Asta, Finral only came wit Yami after. Morris would've killed them all instantly. If Dante was in the same situation, he would've been killed instantly by Asta alone. I don't think u realize how overpowered the bulls are, Grey literally transmuted all his roots, Henry sucked up his mama, then punched him in the face. Stronk Asta then boinked him. Seriously I don't understand what's wit this BC downplay, especially when it comes to conceptual powers. No one wants to accept how strong they rlly are

If Kisuke gets in contact with Morris, he gets decayed. And his paladin powers make this one interesting.

Old Morris wasn't much or a fighter but he has a chance to redeem his bad qualities soon.

We will see mate, we will see...... and better hope he gets lucifero's conceptual interaction abilities again or an even better Palladin ability.

Bump

Morris Disintegrates Kisuke instead.

GG

Paladin Morris murders Kisuke

He was keeping up with hellfire incarnate mereoleona was should be easily at the high ends of FTL+ or the lowest ends of MFTL+

Since Kisuke has no knowledge on his abilities he'll try cutting him with his sword and that's goodbye to his zanpakuto.

He can still use kido to attack and harm his tentacles but they can regenerate or disintegrate those kido technique since he disintegrated mereleona's mana fist and yunos never neverland

Unless he starts with his Bankai Paladin Morris murders Kisuke.

Normal Morris will get defeated mid to high difficulty by normal kisuke