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#701 Posted by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: Cool. But you don't need to post feats for that. You can just tell me what you want to say, I will search it up myself. I can do that much work for you man.

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#702 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: It wasn’t put into Sasuke’s eye, and Naruto’s wasn’t limited to his sage mode. They were both directly given SoSP chakra. It’s why it buffed them and not just them while they were using their respective abilities.

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#703 Posted by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: You are right that Naruto and Sasuke can use SO6P powers in Base as well. But that has nothing to do with the moon cutter. Like I said , no need to post feats. Just tell me , i will search it up myself. Debate me on this one. Though I have already left my arguments on some of the previous comments.

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#704 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: There’s no proof for Toneri’s TSB sword losing TSB properties. Senjutsu still counters it as we saw with Naruto running down the middle and tanking it.

Toneri’s sword is a beam with the parent jutsu being something that Naruto has an in lore explained resistance to. Every jutsu Toneri uses that derives from TSB will be resisted by Naruto and Sasuke.

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#705 Edited by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: There is evidence. I can prove it to you .

1. Toneri uses Silver whell rebirth explosion which also uses TSB yet it didn't disintegrate anyone. Eg- Shikamaru , Sai , Sakura , etc.

2. Toneri creates a cage out of TSB and puts hinata into it , but Hinata doesn't get disintegrated on touching the cage. Because it also loses its property when used as a jutsu.

Hence why Golden Wheel Rebirth explosion , loses it's property of disintegration , thus Naruto overpowering it is not because of his immunity towards it.
He is able to run through it because of his physical strength and durability.

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#706 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: This isn’t true, Naruto doesn’t use Senjutsu unless in SM hence the name of his jutsu’s changing to “sage art”

And In the Fight with Madara Sasuke had to activate his Senjutsu, he litteraly said “I guess I’ll use the Sage’s Chakra too.”

Naruto has not interacted with a pure a TSB without being in SM.

And I already concede this argument if we are to assume that Kinshiki is Gaara from the 4th war level in speed, I have to feats to suggest that he’s gotten faster but, fused Kinshiki should win as he was matching BM Naruto in speed.

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#707 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: I believe that to be faulted ABC logic. Naruto has TSB Rasenshuriken which expand and disenegrate on contact, and he also sometimes will turn the TSB into Tailed Beast Bombs.

I think that consistency and the way Naruto went about countering this attack along with the nature of how it cut the moon in half support it being heavily resisted by him and Sasuke. And more influenced by the TSB.

Toneri has moon level range and small country level output at a max IMO. The attack was more similar to a large and wide lightsaber being swung down at a planet than it was say an Adamantium beam being swung down at a planet. The former is supported by consistency in the show and the nature of TSB in general while the latter is supported by people who just seem to want to make Toneri ridiculously stronger than everyone else with that one attack in the show.

We’ve seen an explosion on earth reach the moon and the moon’s size looked to be drastically smaller than that of earth’s as well as the fact that it takes only 50 Shinobi to be able to blow it up, along with the fact that it’s hollow all lead me to believe it’s much smaller than our own moon.

You’re better than @thebeardofzues: already for showing a semblance of understanding of the show and actually trying to argue a point instead of whining and running away so I’d just wanted to give you a more cohesive post than one made on my phone.

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#708 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: If Sasuke can “Activate his sage chakra” without entering sage mode I’d assume Naruto would be doing the same agaisnt an opponent that is also using TSB. Nothing suggests he didn’t and everything suggests he did. There would be no reason for him to not have “activated sage chakra” agaisnt an opponent with TSB and multiple times throughout their fight he’s interacting with TSB anyways.

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#709 Edited by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: You do realise , Rasenshuriken's base property is also cellular disintegration. It's not faulty. It's proof.

You need to provide proof now.

Lol , nope . Not at all. Its consistently been shown that only TSB in it's black form can disintegrate. It's also consistently been shown that once the TSB are no longer in their original form , they lose their disintegration property. That is consistency.

It is headcanon to say that "their base material is TSB therefore the jutsu should also disintegrate like the TSB" . That is not consistency , that's headcanon. Especially when there is proof to suggest otherwise.

Or prove otherwise.

TSB disintegrate only when they are in TSB form . You want to prove otherwise ? give me proof . The Rasenshuriken one won't work as Rasenshuriken's base property is already cellular disintegration and even then there were rubble that were not destroyed.

Nope , so basically no proof .

That proves that the explosion is big not that the moon is small .

The Shinobi were gonna teleport the moon away to another dimension, not blow it up . Completely different things.

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#710 Edited by TheOriginalOne (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@lambsauce: High?

Island level? You are kidding right? I agree with country to island? Lol, there is no proof of this.

And talking about its gravitation pull doesn't make it island level in size....

The reason why the bijuu couldn't break out of it was BECAUZE THEY WERE UNDER GENJUTSU. Have You actually read the manga?

And I posted a pic from the manga, how were the island level? Does that mean sasuke susanoo is island level as well?

I agree with it nothing continental level. But I did say it was country level to small continent. That is it.

The other user said it was continental plus and that was wank.

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#711 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: Not exactly Sasuke does it threw the Eye was giving to him, Naruto had Senjutsu before the power up, and still only uses Senjutsu in SM, I’ve looked for instances of him using Senjutsu without SM and found nothing

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#712 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: Rasenshuriken never disenegrated cells, only cut them. I can’t post the original explanation of the technique so you’re gonna have to find it yourself, no where does it state disenegration. With and only with TSB do they have the ability to disenegrate cells or anything making most of your post kind of moot. Lol.

TSB can give jutsu disenegration properties like it already has, and any jutsu derived from a TSB will be resisted by Naruto/Senjutsu Chakra as stated and shown multiple times in the show.

We saw how big the explosion was on earth and it was low multi mountain and we see how big the blast was on the moon. Again You’d have to wait until I got home for me to post or counter this effectively.

I distinctly remember them about to blow it up but if you can post scans saying they’re just going to displace it then I’ll happily concede.

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#713 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: If everything suggest he was using Senjutsu prove it, unlike you I’ll listen to logic all you have to do is prove it.

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#714 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: The fact that Sasuke without sage mode can fill his body with Senjutsu means that Naruto can as well.

The instance of Naruto interacting with TSB and TSB Jutsu in his fight with toneri cements that fact in.

The other user you’re rallying behind has already said I was right on this point and so do most watchers of Naruto, even the wanking fanboys, so no, I’m not being biased or whatever type of whine you want to try and throw in. You’re effectively arguing with most of the fanbase.

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#715 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: Sasuke is not Naruto, can Naruto teleport just because Sasuke can?

Sasuke stated he was doing it, Naruto did not.

You have no proof

I’m not rallying behind anyone.

And no out of 600 post only you and maybe 3 others agree with you O can go the and find dozens supporting Naruto

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#716 Edited by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: Incorrect usage of debunking ABC logic because there is no ABC. Sasuke's eyes allow him to teleport.

They received the exact same power up.

They both have SoSP chakra coursing inside of them. They both can interact with TSB.

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#717 Posted by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: we have feats of rasenshuriken disintegrating opponents. Remember one of those pains who only had his head left.

This point is moot either way as there were rocks falling that didn't get disintegrated after getting hit by TSB rasenshuriken.

Any other proof cause otherwise I will take it as a concession.

Nope , never shown. Naruto has immunity against base TSB in its black form. Naruto has never encountered a jutsu that has been derived from the TSB until toneri.Thus making those feats as the baseline feats . Thus proving that jutsu derived from TSB no longer retain their disintegrating property. That's consistent .

That's just the problem of scaling.

Come on , there is no proof for what you are saying. Literally none. It's consistently been shown to be the same size as our moon.

I am also on mobile . Just search up the dialogue . They said teleporting into another dimension.

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#718 Posted by The_greatest (224 posts) - - Show Bio

All this and kinshiki still doesn’t have the feats or power to beat ichigo.

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#719 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@adi_frost: Right, I’m just gonna wait til i get home to counter this.

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#720 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: I apologize for yesterday and I’ve tried taking you seriously today but how can you not see the wholes in your logic?

Sasuke only has the Senjutsu because of the eye making them related.

No they didn’t get the same power up agian I doubt your knowledge in the Naruto verse is a sound as you pretend it to be. Naruto gained all Chakra types, Kekki Genki, Tailed Beast, And the S06P sage mode.... Sasuke didn’t get any of those, instead he got the Sage’s Dojutsu. “Exact dame power up”..... 🤦‍♂️

Yes when using Senjutsu, like Sasuke when he had to active it against Madara, or Naruto who used it to kick the TSB away.

The only part of your argument that I agree with is Ichigo beating Kinshiki’s base form the rest is nonsense that ignores context.

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#721 Posted by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_greatest: it wasn't about who wins either way, Unless you believe Ichigo beats toneri as well. Lol

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#722 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_greatest: I agree Ichigo beats base Kinshiki, he would lose to fused version though.

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#723 Posted by The_greatest (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues:

Then that is another thread entirely if you want to debate on that make another one.

As it stands ichigo wins this fight.

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#724 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_greatest: Like I said I agree, no need to tag me again.

If you want to make that thread make it, I know Ichigo loses so I have to reason too.

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#725 Posted by TheOriginalOne (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude , "how is it quantifiable ?" He created a chakra sword using his chakra. So obviously his body consists the amount of chakra he had to use to create the jutsu. The jutsu was casual for him because he has that amount of energy. It is not a hax jutsu like the particle style. It is just a chakra blade.

What is unquantifiable is the amount of chakra used. You have kept saying "chakra chakra" in this debate but you have no proof of how much. That is not how a debate works, you can't just make something up. When I said "hax", I meant it was a toneri specific jutsu. I know I could have worded it better but my point is still right. That is what I meant.

Cause Moon's diameter is continent sized . And toneri cut it through it's circumference which is even bigger. I never denied it isn't hollow. It is still continental+ even if it is hollow.

Jesus, it is not about the size. How many times do I have to tell you this. It is about cutting something dense and cutting something hollow. The difference between the 2 is massive.

You can cut an empty box but if I were to put a steel cube inside of it, you won't be able to do it no matter how big or small the sword. That is the point.

Obviously it does. He used his fist and ran through the jutsu like it was nothing .

He had to focus most, if not all of his onto his hand to do that. So, NOT LIKE NOTHING. Try again.

Naruto from the Last has Moon level (or in your words continental) level durability feats in a weaker form and a feat of overpowering the same jutsu with his bare fists.

So you are back to moon level? Sign. A small continent sure but you do know not even a perfect Susanoo has that kind of durability? Are you saying a weaker Naruto is stronger/has more durability than a Perfect Susanoo?

Lol, how low are you going to fall.

And bare fists? It seems like you didn't watch the movie. He had to focus ALL OF HIS CHAKRA onto his hands to do that. Atleast stop lying now.

I mean't he sent a sizable chunk of his chakra to fight something else on it's own. My point was Naruto was not even at the full power of the weaker form that he was using.

Sizable is a stretch. We has seen him create 4 kurama avatars like nothing while being low on chakra. I agree, he wasn't at full power but Toneri wasn't a moon level opponent as well. Both Juubi Madara and Kaguya are above him.

So , basically , all you have is Wikia . It is still telekenisis. It still requires chakra to move the moon. It is not something automatic or just a hax that happens to be there which requires no chakra. It definitely does require high amounts of chakra .

Wikis that explain the concept better than you and have proof to back it up. So yes, it is better. Yes, it requires chakra but how much? I have told you this before, the tensegan is a hax power that could control the movement of the moon. That is why toneri was initially able to move the moon of its axis and direct it towards earth.

He didn't an control over the moon himself until he got the tenseigan and that control was very limited.

So you didn't watch the movie I guess. Cause this question seriously proves it. In the end of the movie after Toneri is beaten , he creates "the light of justice" which he was gonna throw towards earth to destroy it.

You were talking about that? So now you believe in statements that have no proof to back them up. Or do you really believe that Naruto could stop an attack that could destroy the moon and a planet, as said by toneri himself.

Can you provide any feats for this move that shows it was going to destroy a planet or do you only have a statement? Because statements don't count in a debate...

Lol I suggest you see the movie first. lol

I agree I forgot about that stupid thing. But at least I didn't get the part wrong where Naruto had to focus all his chakra on his hands to overpower toneri... So maybe take your own advice?

Though I was wrong about the solar energy part , he didn't even need that to create that orb in the movie.

Thanks for admitting you were wrong. I forgot about something as well so we are even lol.

I would say big one because the diameter of the moon itself is as big as the US .The circumference of the moon is 10900 km and Toneri cut it right through the centre . Yeah , it's a large continent.

Again, in size, sure. But IT WAS HOLLOW. He cut through it BECAUSE IT WAS HOLLOW. It is not always about the range. The USA IS NOT HOLLOW. Just because you have a big sword doesn't mean you can cut something dense.

He is.

No, Toneri isn't moon level, His one move is but that was only moon level in range, not DC. At best, small continental level.

Cutting a hollow moon is not impressive ? It kinda is considering just the crust of the moon is 60km deep.

Again, where did you get 60 km? I asked you this before but you still haven't proven it. Is this you own headcanon fan calc. Unless you prove this, it is still unimpressive.

You cannot use the word hax and say you mean't something else. Then you should specify.

I should have specified, sorry about that.

We know . Enough chakra to cut the moon . Lol . Common sense .

Yet, I am still not seeing how much. When will you provide proof that shows how much chakra? Saying a lot of chakra IS NOT PROOF. Either show how much OR STOP BRINGING IT UP.

Common sense.

Uhh. Seriously , ok , then it had unquantifiable mass . Forget that I even said it . It is not gonna go through your head.Let me just make my point. It requires force to cut something . You cannot just cut it by having a big weapon. Toneri could output that force , that's why he is continental+ or large continent level.

Next time, don't mention something you have no proof of. And again, cutting through something hollow requires LESS FORCE to through something dense. So no, not continental +. Maybe small continent.

Lol . Have you even watched the series? The chakra required to create a CT is directly proportional to the size of the CT . The bigger the CT is the more chakra it takes.

Lol, when was this said? Why don't you actually back up what you say?

I am not saying it doesn't take more chakra to make it bigger but NOWHERE has it been said that is is proportional. Stop with your headcanon.

I mean't the first one that he used against everyone . You could clearly see the entire landscape (eg- lakes , rivers , land, etc) while it was hitting the inner surface of the moon. I suggest , rewatching the movie cause you clearly don't remember what happened.

Hahah, you just dug yourself into a whole yourself. A collision between the typhoon and Naruto planetary rasengan actually blew though the exterior. That alone shows how small the exterior of the moon was.

Not to mention, Naruto chakra (when it came out of his body) was strong enough to blow the interior as well. DO that mean that chakra was moon level as well?

Back to the question - yes, it blew the crust of the moon (a small bit) but you did see that characters like shiki and Sasuke tanked it as well? They were literally hit by it as well or did you forget this?

Are you going to say there have island level durability as well?

Dude , The crust of the moon is 60km . Go search it if you want. Area was the wrong word, Sorry ? I meant , circumference . He cut straight through the centre . The circumference of the moon is (roughly) 10900km .Calculate it yourself . It is large continent level.

ACCORDING TO WHAT? WHERE HAS IT BEEN SAID THE CURST IS 60KM? No, I am not searching anything, you said this, prove it. Because if that typhoon was able to blow to destroy the crust from the inside, Naruto chakra bomb was able to destroy it, then it wasn't much.

Now you are confusing yourself. And again, I reacted, cutting through something hollow is not the same as cutting through a dense object. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. The crust was not that deep, it was destroyed by way weaker attacks.

SIZE DOES NOT ALWAYS MEAN DURABILTIY.....

Actually let me correct myself on this one. I was wrong . I confused myself with the CT that Madara created vs the CT that Sasuke created . Sasuke's ones were mountain sized. This one I admit , I was wrong about it.

Cool

Edit: Ok , one thing I wanna clarify , i just realised this, I know i sound stupid while saying this, by continental + DC, I mean't that he would even cut a large continent if he want's to or cut something with the durability of a continent.

Now that I think about this , you could be right about saying that the chakra required to create the sword is unquantifiable to calculate the DC Toneri could actually dish out. Hmm , I guess I didn't pay attention to our debate much.

Though I do stand by everything else I said.

I still think it is continental level but not continental plus. I have said this from the start.

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#726 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Just a heads up Naruto didn’t focus all his Cakra into his hand, Kurama was not in his body and as shown before Naruto can summon all surrounding Chakra in an instant.

And yes Naruto is more durable than PS Kaguyas vacuum palms shattered PS in an instant, Naruto without Kurama Avatar was able to match the vacuum palms

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#727 Edited by Adi_Frost (431 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: obviously. There is no number you can put on the chakra. It just means he has enough Chakra to pull of a jutsu at that scale. That's it .

Yes I know. The durability of the moon is important. Considering that it is hollow , it still is continental and by continental I mean that it can cut an object with the durability of a continent.

Focusing the chakra the chakra that he was using at the time . He was using BSM mode, so yeah , it is kinda nothing if he used SO6P mode which is leagues above BSM. Though this comes down to more speculation so I understand what you are saying.

Yeah exactly. Naruto has better durability than a perfect susanoo. At least more than the ones used by characters like madara. Though we don't have susanoo feats for The Last sasuke but yeah , Naruto while in BSM has better durability than susanoo. I mean , this should be obvious.

By bare fists I meant he didn't use kurama avatar or anything. I didn't forget that he uses Chakra to augment himself.

Toneri has proven himself in multiple ways to suggest he is moon level. I still say low end of moon level (which is continental by the way) but he surely is because all the feats he did were very casual.

Let's stop this one cause we are not gonna get to conclusion for this one. I agree it is an ability to control the moon but again that also puts him at that level .

We aren't gonna reach a conclusion on this one so let's stop here.

Naruto didn't stop the jutsu that toneri used , he wasn't able to use it , he was interrupted in between and was sent straight into space. It is a statement but I just brought that up . Statements are taken in a debate though. I have seen people use then many times like for vegeta. Either way , I just brought that up . I didn't mean to say he is planetary.

Again , I agree with you . I think you aren't gonna give this one up . I still think it would count as a large continent but let's come to a conclusion and agree on a solid continent level . Cool ?

Though it's range is still a lot more than moon level . It went far beyond the moon.

The crust of our moon is 60km deep . That's what I was stating. The moon was hollow from the inside . It still had its crust though.

Dude , there are no numbers to quantify the amount of Chakra .I just said, enough Chakra to cut the moon in half. He can do it again and again as well. Nothing more.

You cannot ask me how much chakra does BB posses. Obviously it possess enough to destroy a mountain. The same applies here.

Yes. It takes less force to cut something Hollow to cut something dense. Even after considering that , it's still continent level. If it was dense, it would be far greater of a feat than continental.

Dude , directly proportional means that as the size of the CT increases , so does the Chakra needed . That's it . It's not head canon. Directly proportional means something increases with something or something decreases with something. It's not head canon.

Either way, what I said was that bigger the CT the more Chakra required that's it .

I watched the fight again , the collion between the typhoon and the rasengan didn't even destroy anything , it was in the air.

Naruto's chakra did destroy a sizable chunk of the moon . But it was just a small part so no , it's not moon level .

They did and they survived, I remember it , what are you trying to say ?

They were at the core of the tornado, the core was rather calm than the actual attack so they survived. They did get hit but the core was far less violent than the tornado. You know, like the eye of the tornado being calm .

How does that work? Naruto's Chakra and the typhoon were able to break the crust therefore it's a feat for the Chakra and the jutsu. That doesn't mean that the crust was weak. That's not how it works. It shows the DC of the jutsu and Chakra.

I already said like I thousand times , I know that something Hollow has less durability than something dense. After considering that I said he is easily continental+.

But to come to a conclusion , I am settling for continental . Not any more or any less.

If we don't come to a truce we would have to continue this debate for like forever.

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#728 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@lambsauce: This logic is flawed. So Kinshiki keeps up with weakened Sasuke means he blitzes Ichigo?

Well Ichigo cut a god in half, guess all Otsutsuki's are screwed then. You see why this argument is stupid?

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#729 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio

15 Pages in.

Still no proof Kinshiki beats Ichigo.

Ichigo 7/10 at least.

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#730 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutbleacfan said:

15 Pages in.

Still no proof Kinshiki beats Ichigo.

Ichigo 7/10 at least.

Still no proof Ichigo can win either.

Strange.

Also strange almost every person voting for Ichigo is sup 500 post and has no experience debating.

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#731 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: Says the dude who basically forfeited twice. You even said Ichigo>Base Kinshiki.

And I copy and pasted (twice) a list of feats of Ichigo.

Seriously what is your attention span?

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#732 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutbleacfan:

Yes I did post that, because I looked into on my own.

You "bleach" fans couldn't prove your own gender. (which was the point of my post to you.)

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#733 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio
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#734 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutbleacfan:

You bleach fans wouldn't post any proof, so i did the research myself and decided Ichigo takes the against base Kinshiki

I asked for the bleach to post the proof but they couldn't.

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#735 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio
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#736 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't you also say that Ichigo became irrelevant against Naruto Characters since the War Arc?

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#737 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutbleacfan:

I was being sarcastic, he starts losing to characters like Juubito

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#738 Posted by NarutBleacFan (214 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: Thank god you were being sarcastic lol.

I say Juubito>=Ichigo

People assume I'm a Bleach "wanker" even though I also say "Naruto>Ichigo, Sasuke>Ichigo, Madara>Ichigo, All Otsutsuki except Momo and Kin>Ichigo"

Only judges people from the cover ;(

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#739 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio

@iusemycajonas: we have feats of rasenshuriken disintegrating opponents. Remember one of those pains who only had his head left.

No Caption Provided

Lol no we don't. Pains head wasn't disenegrated it was just ripped apart. Which is what rasenshuriken does if it's not TSB infused.

This point is moot either way as there were rocks falling that didn't get disintegrated after getting hit by TSB rasenshuriken.

Any other proof cause otherwise I will take it as a concession.

What lmfao? It didn't touch all of the rocks. How would it disenegrate rocks it didn't come into contact with?

Also; why did you preemptively concede to the rasenshuriken disenegrating things but then later say it cant? Did it lose what you previously thought to be properties? Lmfao.

Nope , never shown. Naruto has immunity against base TSB in its black form. Naruto has never encountered a jutsu that has been derived from the TSB until toneri.Thus making those feats as the baseline feats . Thus proving that jutsu derived from TSB no longer retain their disintegrating property. That's consistent .

Jutsu derived from the TSB are jutsu directly derived from the TSB, which he has an innate resistance to. That's literally how all jutsu in Naruto work, Deidara's jutsu got countered by lightning still because of it's parent jutsu. That's consistent.

Come on , there is no proof for what you are saying. Literally none. It's consistently been shown to be the same size as our moon.

No it hasn't.

You see the size of Naruto compared to this explosion, it shows no signs of expanding, and you see the size of the moon compared to it.
You see the size of Naruto compared to this explosion, it shows no signs of expanding, and you see the size of the moon compared to it.

In fact. It's consistently been shown to be smaller than our moon. Show me a panel where it's the same size as our own. Lol.

I am also on mobile . Just search up the dialogue . They said teleporting into another dimension.

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Alright.

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#740 Posted by The_greatest (224 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues:

You literally just conceded Ichigo wins and you’re saying that I don’t need have experience in debating because of my post count? Because I made a better case than anyone voting for kinshiki and I made you concede.

And ichigo beats momo with kishi absorbed too but we don’t need another 15 pages on This thread till you concede again so like I said someone should make another thread and we can debate there.

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#741 Posted by TheOriginalOne (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues: Actually, that was not Kurama, that was his avatar. And he did focus most if not all his chakra at the point.

Naruto is not more durable that a perfect Susanoo, that is absurd.

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#742 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues:

You literally just conceded Ichigo wins and you’re saying that I don’t need have experience in debating because of my post count? Because I made a better case than anyone voting for kinshiki and I made you concede.

Actually @iusemycajonas made me concede Kiniski beating Ichigo, he pointed out that Gaara was matching him speed wise and I had no counter.

And ichigo beats momo with kishi absorbed too but we don’t need another 15 pages on This thread till you concede again so like I said someone should make another thread and we can debate there.

Eh maybe, I'd give them a majority I tagged you in a thread over this.

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#743 Posted by universeichigo1 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

I still remember when I highball bleach like this :) but seriously stop all you are doing is spoiling the image of the manga even more

But seriously what happened here 700+ posts you guys got time

Online
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#745 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone:

  1. It was Kurama on his own, the Avatar is what Naruto surrounds himself with.
  2. By feats Naruto is more durable.
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Sasuke's Super Biju PS was able to MATCH Naruto's avatar, Sasuke's standard PS simply ins't on that level.

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#746 Posted by iUseMyCajonas (3717 posts) - - Show Bio
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#747 Posted by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio
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#748 Posted by TheOriginalOne (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: obviously. There is no number you can put on the chakra. It just means he has enough Chakra to pull of a jutsu at that scale. That's it .

Still, no number. Thus, unquantifiable. Thus, USELESS to mention in a debate.

Yes I know. The durability of the moon is important. Considering that it is hollow , it still is continental and by continental I mean that it can cut an object with the durability of a continent.

Again no, this is wrong, The moon was not as durable as a continent. Listle, getting thihg the surface is fine but it won't be able to go much deeper. Why? A continent, even a small one, is more packed that the Naruto moon.

But I agree, small continent. What I won't agree with is continental +.

Focusing the chakra the chakra that he was using at the time . He was using BSM mode, so yeah , it is kinda nothing if he used SO6P mode which is leagues above BSM. Though this comes down to more speculation so I understand what you are saying.

First you said bare. Now you are changing tunes. Again, he still used most of his power, if not all, to do what he did. And again, doing that to a chakra attack does not mean he had continent level physicals.

In fact, if you gave toneri the Kusanagi (of the same size), the result would be the same. I don't think it was about the weapon but the range of the weapon.

Yeah exactly. Naruto has better durability than a perfect susanoo. At least more than the ones used by characters like madara. Though we don't have susanoo feats for The Last sasuke but yeah , Naruto while in BSM has better durability than susanoo. I mean , this should be obvious.

Lol, what? No, he doesn't.... This is based on NOTHING.

By bare fists I meant he didn't use kurama avatar or anything. I didn't forget that he uses Chakra to augment himself.

Cool if you admit he did use MOST IF NOT ALL his chakra in that instant.

Toneri has proven himself in multiple ways to suggest he is moon level. I still say low end of moon level (which is continental by the way) but he surely is because all the feats he did were very casual.

I can see why you call him moon level but to me, he was around country to country +. Maybe small continent if we push it.

Let's stop this one cause we are not gonna get to conclusion for this one. I agree it is an ability to control the moon but again that also puts him at that level .

Again, it was due to the tenseigan hax but cool.

Naruto didn't stop the jutsu that toneri used , he wasn't able to use it , he was interrupted in between and was sent straight into space. It is a statement but I just brought that up . Statements are taken in a debate though. I have seen people use then many times like for vegeta. Either way , I just brought that up . I didn't mean to say he is planetary.

Actually no, statements are NOT TAKEN. If we take statements, Saitama would be solar system level, etc etc. In debates,. WE USE FEATS AND CONSISTENT FEATS AT THAT. Can you show any databook entry that says what Toneri said was true?

If you see people doing that, call them out. Statements are there because people don't have feats to back up what they say. If someone says Naruto has continent level DC, we know this is true as he has feats. But if someone say he can destroy a star because he himself said it somewhere, and has never shown that, then it is garbage.

Again , I agree with you . I think you aren't gonna give this one up . I still think it would count as a large continent but let's come to a conclusion and agree on a solid continent level . Cool ?

Cool.

Though it's range is still a lot more than moon level . It went far beyond the moon.

I agree.

The crust of our moon is 60km deep . That's what I was stating. The moon was hollow from the inside . It still had its crust though.

Our moon, sure but Naruto moon is different from ours. Hollow from the inside to the point where attacks like typhoon rebirth were breaking through it like nothing. So no, I am not buying that.

Dude , there are no numbers to quantify the amount of Chakra .I just said, enough Chakra to cut the moon in half. He can do it again and again as well. Nothing more.

I am fine with saying chakra but not enough. What is "enough"?

You cannot ask me how much chakra does BB posses. Obviously it possess enough to destroy a mountain. The same applies here.

And that is why no one talks about "how much chakra" when talking bijuu bomb. We just say it can destroy multi mountains.

Yes. It takes less force to cut something Hollow to cut something dense. Even after considering that , it's still continent level. If it was dense, it would be far greater of a feat than continental.

I haven't denied this. I agree, it was continental but on the smaller side. What I didn't agree with was the "continental +" stuff.

Dude , directly proportional means that as the size of the CT increases , so does the Chakra needed . That's it . It's not head canon. Directly proportional means something increases with something or something decreases with something. It's not head canon.

Again, where has this been said? Where does it say the chakra required is proportional to the size of the CT. I am not saying making it bigger won't take chakra but you can't say it is directly proportional.

Either way, what I said was that bigger the CT the more Chakra required that's it .

I agree with this but Sasuke CT were mountain/mountain + level.

Naruto's chakra did destroy a sizable chunk of the moon . But it was just a small part so no , it's not moon level .

You didn't understand my point. It was strong enough to the point where it blew a hole to the outside. That shows there wasn't much crust left to begin with. This links to out toneri cutting the moon point and you point of crust being 60 km deep.

They did and they survived, I remember it , what are you trying to say ?

That the typhoon move was not island level or anything (like you said). It was not even that impressive. All it did was blow the crust away.

They were at the core of the tornado, the core was rather calm than the actual attack so they survived. They did get hit but the core was far less violent than the tornado. You know, like the eye of the tornado being calm .

But this means we don't know it's destructive capabilities. Then I don't see how you claimed it was island level based on nothing. What we do know is that it was matched in power by the planetary rasengan and that is neither island, country level. Maybe city...

How does that work? Naruto's Chakra and the typhoon were able to break the crust therefore it's a feat for the Chakra and the jutsu. That doesn't mean that the crust was weak. That's not how it works. It shows the DC of the jutsu and Chakra.

No, it means there was not much crush to begin with. That is MY POINT. Naruto chakra being able to blow a hole towards the exterior shows there wasn't an crust left.

I already said like I thousand times , I know that something Hollow has less durability than something dense. After considering that I said he is easily continental+.

And I still disagree. I can agree with small continent level (if we push it) but continental level+ is pushing it.

But to come to a conclusion , I am settling for continental . Not any more or any less.

If we don't come to a truce we would have to continue this debate for like forever.

Well, then I agree.

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#749 Edited by TheOriginalOne (2299 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebeardofzues said:

@theoriginalone:

  1. It was Kurama on his own, the Avatar is what Naruto surrounds himself with.
  2. By feats Naruto is more durable.
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Sasuke's Super Biju PS was able to MATCH Naruto's avatar, Sasuke's standard PS simply ins't on that level.

Sorry, but it wasn't. Kurama, whenever he has been shown in the real world, IS NEVER SHOWN WITH CHAKRA AROUND HIM. That is only the avatars that do.

So no, it was not Kurama.

Well, you could make an argument that since Naruto has both halves of Kurama now, he can manifest one half and have the other in his body (like he did most of his life) and that would make sense.

But that other half chakra, mixed with nature energy, was enough to against Juubito so when he concentrated chakra was still massive.

The movie just didn't explain it properly.

Lol, in your own scan, he didn't tank anything, he matched her for a while. How does that equate him being as durable as a susanoo.... LOL

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#750 Edited by TheBeardOfZues (1990 posts) - - Show Bio

@theoriginalone: Naruto was able to tank the same attack that shattered PS.... Naruto wasn't shattered by the attack....Meaning he's more durable.

Then what was it? A large amount of Chakra outside of Naruto, my point still stands, it wasn't 100% Naruto.

Naruto literally sends Kurama to fight that golem, so stating that it isn't Kurama isn't logical.