King Ghidorah vs Surtur (MCU)

Where Ghidorah scales according to what? Downplay Is all i see

@multifandomboyo: Godzillas atomic breath.

Godzilla is massively above the island ranges with and without his atomic breath, so, No, Island level is still downplay

@multifandomboyo: Yea that's what I just said, Godzillas atomic breath is large island-small country level, that's massively above island level lol.

Before you said it was island-large island, now you say small country, both of which are still below what his actual output is

@multifandomboyo said:

I said Godzillas atomic breath is large island-small country level lol, King Ghidorah tanking it for 19 seconds is island level.

Where do you think Godzilla scales?

Surtur would stomp Ghidorah, Kong and Godzilla at once. He's on a separate tier...

He can grab any of the monsters and literally throw him into space

Stalemate unless Surtur busts Asgard and kills himself

@johndeyvido said:

How exactly is Surtur on a "seperate" tier? His most powerful attack kills himself as well, without it he is like multi mountain+, that's not higher then Ghidorah who tanked island lvl attack breath, Godzilla tanked Kongs charged axe which is on the same tier as well.

Why? Surturs most powerful attack kills himself in the process, without it hes multi mountain+-island lvl max, Ghidorah tanked Godzillas atomic breath which is island level.

@eredin12: Yea the size difference is irrelevant so I'll just ignore that.

He only destroyed a couple of mountains but the shockwave was pretty big so multi mountain+ , but he no-sold it so his durability should be around island lvl max, Godzillas atomic breath tunneled to the earths core in 3 minutes which is large island-small country level, so per second would prob be around large mountain level. Ghidorah tanked his atomic breath for 19 seconds straight, which is island level, you can argue that Ghidorah no-sold it since he visually wasn't damaged in any way possible and that was all before his amp. So Surturs multi mountain+ shockwave is not scratching him, he would need to use his full power which would kill himself as well, and I'm not even sure if that would kill Ghidorah.

@eredin12:

How is it irrelevant?

Because hes only the size of a mountain.

This is all wrong. First of all, shockwave did not just destroy mountains, it also destroyed ice around Asgard, and that ice itself was much larger than those mountains. Meaning this is solidly island level attack that Surtur did not even feel. Not even feeling attack, does not mean that your durability is at best on the level of attack you did not feel.

Idk how many mountains he destroyed in that scene but it looked like he destroyed 3? 4? And you said "the ice is much larger than the mountains", how much larger though? Even if it's twice the size that's still multi mountain+.

Here for instance, you say how breath releases large mountain level energy per second. What you failed to notice is that shockwave Surtur did no sold released island level energy in just one second. Meaning it was not spread over 19 seconds or few minutes, It was instant. Further more, Surtur would not attack Ghidorah with shockwave, shockwave itself is hundreds of times weaker than strike that makes it. He would be hitting him with direct hits

And he has no feats to take those for long.

Multi Mountain+ shockwave per second and yes he no-sold it, but heres the thing, right after the shockwave, Asgard blew up, I think it's fair to say that Surtur can only use that shockwave when blowing up Asgard so he can't use it for more then a second. He never did anything close to that during his fight with Hela, even when he one shot her with his sword he still did not destroy any mountains, in other words he can only use that shockwave right before hes about to blow up Asgard which would kill himself as well.

Lets say, he is island level, he would still kill himself when using his attack.

Honestly, now that I think about it, the only time Surtur ever used his multi mountain shockwave was right before he busted Asgard in other words he can't use ti without killing himself lol, he ain't scratching Ghidorah unless you use split durability argument.

@eredin12:

Height wise, about 2 or so times, but it goes all around Asgard, it covers each and every edge, and he destroyed that all. That is easily island level feat for shockwave and he did not even feel it

We don't know if it actually covers all of Asgard, we only saw a part of Asgard but whatever, let's say it is island level, if Surtur uses it, he kills himself.

Did you hear anything that i said? Surtur will not hit Ghidorah with a shockwave lmao. Shockwave is merely after effect, air pressure, of the attack. Shockwave is hundreds or even thousands of times weaker than attacks that made it. How much, depends on distance. Further it moves more it loses power due to square cube law. At distance it hit those mountains and ice it would be thousands of times weaker. He will hit Ghidorah with direct hits, which are far more powerful than those shockwaves even if he does not use all of his power as he did there

And that, will kill Ghidorah

Where did you get "hundreds" or "thousands" from? Also all of this is irrelevant, as Surtur would kill himself in the process, right after Surtur made the shockwaves that destroyed those mountains, Asgard blew up as well, in other words he can only damage/kill Ghidorah if he kills himself in the process.

@jurance:

Godzilla atomic breath according to the creators of the movie is 3.14×10^14J nowhere near island level.

Surtur is a multi billion tonner carrying a sword that's like 2km long and can swing it at hypersonic speed.

Surtur can oneshot any of the monsters in one hit based on strength difference alone.

At the minimum, he's atleast 1000X stronger than any of the monsters so if Godzilla can rip off Ghidorah's head imagine what Surtur can do that's multiple times stronger...

@eredin12:

Once again, you did not read my comment. Point with this feat is not to say that Surtur would use this attack but rather to show that:

1. He is durable enough to not even feel island level attack

2. That if his shockwave is this strong, then given how much shockwave is weaker than attack that made it, even much weaker attacks would be enough to put down Ghidorah

What "weaker" attacks does Surtur have? Lol that's all we have seen and like I said, right after that he blew up Asgard and died, his shockwave was created by his sword making physical contact with the ground, also Ghidorah was durable as well to not feel an island level attack given that his skin was perfectly fine after taking Atomic Breath for 19 seconds and that was before his amp.

Shockwave is air pressure of attack, after wind. Try to move say, 100 gram object with air pressure of your punch. You cannot budge it right? Of course not. But if you punched said 100 kg object, you can send it flying 100 meters away. That is what shockwave is, that is how much it is weaker. It is all really rather self evident.

Humans cannot send 100 Kg objects flying 100 meters with a single punch lol. And Surtur made physical contact with the ground in order to create the shockwave that destroyed those mountains, he did not just swing his sword and destroy all of them lol.

Thus point is not that Surtur will use attack this powerful, point is that air pressure at distance more than 6 km away from place where his attack took place, would be thousands of times weaker than attack that made it, and yet it was still island level. Which means that Surtur can use hit that is 1000 times weaker, and it would still be as powerful as that shockwave itself, it would still be island level. And with such hits, he will be hurting Ghidorah

But everything else from him before did not come close to that level....

@johndeyvido:

Godzilla atomic breath according to the creators of the movie is 3.14×10^14J nowhere near island level.

When did they confirm this? Do you have a scan?

Surtur is a multi billion tonner carrying a sword that's like 2km long and can swing it at hypersonic speed.

K.

Surtur can oneshot any of the monsters in one hit based on strength difference alone.

First let's see your evidence for "3.14x10^14J" atomic breath.

Surtar wins I think.. let me explain why.

Size difference obviously.
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Now swinging a sword as big as mountain is pretty extreme strength.

Like his sword is huge.

You can see his sword is much larger than mountains.

You can also see even before he stabs in he is passively burning a mountain range.

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I don’t see strength feats for monsterverse on the level of surtar swinging his mountain sized sword.. he can probably pin him down.. and I dont see them tanking the sword either.

@death4bunnies: Godzillas atomic breath per second is large mountain level, Ghidorah was hit by it for 19 seconds straight with no damage whatsoever and that was all before his amp, Surturs mountain sized sword is not scratching him unless you use split durability argument.

Surtur can possibly win if he goes all out but that would kill him as well as we saw in the movie.

As much as I don't really think gojicenter is reliable in some of his battle analysis, he did do a good job on explaining ghidorahs physiology

Unless Surtur manages to 100% destroy Ghidorah, hes gonna still be alive even if its a single scale

I do split dura…. As literally everything in real life has split dura, if you punch a rope it takes weeks of energy to bust it… energy from your arms with a knife is negligible… burning is even more separated from blunt or piercing force…. Things like chain mail (or animals with scales) resist piercing but not blunt, things like plate armor are better against blunt than piercing.. and fire even more separated, the fabric of my pillow being fire resistant has 0 to do with if i can compromise it with piercing force.. etc etc.. literally everything in existence has split dura.

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Also what?

King Ghidorah took breath from a much smaller Godzilla….(five years earlier than his drilling the earth feat)… and why can you acknowledge Gadohras amp but not Godzillas?

Id say being incinerated by Burning Godzilla's atomic pulse kinda shows hes not at the level of max attack Godzilla, kinda proves he’s not taking breath from Godzilla fire years after he was incinerated by big G.

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He can stab into the ground and make the big shockwave outside the destruction of Asgard... he literally stabs (big shockwave) then has to push it more to hit that center… am I crazy or can you see him stab(no boom) then push the sword deeper(boom)…..no reason he can’t do the stab without the push hitting the Asgard crystal.

Replace Hela with Ghidorah there and he dies I think.. even before the second push.

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Still surtar imo, you didn’t include strength so imma say swinging around a mountain sized sword is enough to pin Ghidorah, the passive fire burning multiple mountains is probably going to hurt.. and the sword that makes giant shockwaves is good for a kill I think.

@death4bunnies:

King Ghidorah took breath from a much smaller Godzilla….(five years earlier than his drilling the earth feat)… and why can you acknowledge Gadohras amp but not Godzillas?

I mean we don't know if Godzilla got stronger during those 5 years or not, I mean how could he possibly get stronger? Do you believe that Godzilla works out? Because during those 5 years all he could have done was swim around and eat fish lol, doesn't require much of a struggle if you're as big as Godzilla. He could have been rusty like Kong given none of them have fought any enemies for the past few years.

Id say being incinerated by Burning Godzilla's atomic pulse kinda shows hes not at the level of max attack Godzilla, kinda proves he’s not taking breath from Godzilla fire years after he was incinerated by big G.

I mean, Burning Godzilla is stronger than base Godzilla lol.

He can stab into the ground and make the big shockwave outside the destruction of Asgard...

Honestly what you showed wasn't even impressive unless you are talking about the one that destroyed those mountains (there were 2 shockwaves), the first one wasn't impressive, the 2nd one however, came right before Asgard blew up, in other words it kills Surtur so if Surtur uses it on King Ghidorah then well, he would die as well.

he literally stabs (big shockwave) then has to push it more to hit that center… am I crazy or can you see him stab(no boom) then push the sword deeper(boom)…..no reason he can’t do the stab without the push hitting the Asgard crystal.

Replace Hela with Ghidorah there and he dies I think.. even before the second push.

Depends if you believe that King Ghidorah can tank Kongs charged axe like Godzilla did, Ghidorah also has regen so that can come in handy, also Ghidorah won't just stand there, he can shoot Surtur with his lightning, same lightning that significantly damaged Godzilla to the point where he could barely move, Godzilla can tank his own atomic breath as shown is GvK when he tanked hits from Kongs charged axe that has multi mountain+ AP given that it absorbed Godzillas atomic breath for 5 seconds and as I mentioned earlier, just for one second, his atomic breath is large mountain level.

Still surtar imo, you didn’t include strength so imma say swinging around a mountain sized sword is enough to pin Ghidorah, the passive fire burning multiple mountains is probably going to hurt.. and the sword that makes giant shockwaves is good for a kill I think.

Surtur probably has physical strength I'll give him that but Ghidorah is no joke when it comes to physicals, Godzilla before his amp managed to rip off one of Ghidorahs heads and later Godzilla got stronger via nuclear amp and Ghidorah was still able to contend with him.

@johndeyvido: Frozen already debunked that in this thread.

@jurance:

So frozen's headcanon debunks the directors in-universe statsheet?

That's not how it works... evidence from the movie itself trumps whatever headcanon from a random person on comicvine.

@eredin12:

You do know that you can control with how much force you hit right? I can hit someone with all of my strength or i can hit them playfully, so that it does not hurt them. Surtur is not throwing some spells so that he has some specific spells he can use. He can merely hit with smaller amount of force then he used to destroy Asgard

Yea, you can hit a wall playfully so you won't hurt yourself, but if you hit a full at full power then you will badly damage your fist, only thing for Surtur is that if he uses his full power then he kills himself as we saw in the movie.

No but they can send 100 gram object. I said gram, not KM. 1 gram is thousandth of kg. Surtur made contact with ground yes, but not with mountains and ice miles away from it, shockwave of that hit is what destroyed them.

You said KG which is Kilograms also you're still wrong, show me humans ever sending 100 Grams 100 meters with 1 punch lol.

What? Surtur had only few minutes worth of screen time, of course he will not have 100 such feats.

Yea, that's why we go off what we see. His only good feat kills himself as well, other then that the best you can do is scale Surtur to his own size which makes him mountain level.

@death4bunnies

He feeds off earth energy, and grows stronger with bombs…right?

Wdym by Earth Energy? And yea he grows stronger by feasting on radiation but not like Doomsday and we don't know how much he consumed.

Sure, from 5 years ago.. base Godzilla still bit off his his head through right?

Gets his head bit off by Godzilla. Seems like some split dura evidence and evidence that even 5 years earlier Godzilla could harm him.

More like Godzilla used his jaws to physically rip off Ghidorahs head but Ig Surturs sword can hurt him (Only because of split durability).

Neither shockwave killed surtar.. the big boom did..

The big boom came right after the second shockwave, so what I meant was that Surtur cannot use that shockwave that destroyed mountains without killing himself as we saw in the movie.

the first is enough tho I think even if you won’t accept the second that surtar clearly caused and tanked...

Yea he was unmoved by it but he can't use it without blowing up Asgard as we saw in the movie, he made that shockwave by physically slamming his sword into the ground which first made the shockwave then blew up Asgard.

giant mountain sized sword, with a mountain ranged sized shockwave.

K, Ghidorah can damage him with lightning as well, not one shot but at least damage him.

Dont know why I’d give him future godzillas feats or say he could tank the axe… again with lightning your relating a godzilla from 5 years ago to the one in GVK.. this scaling feels like a hella stretch.(I’d say he could dodge for a bit, but calc wise surtar swings his sword across Asgard in under a second, the tip of that sword is moving really fast) and was able to target hulk and Hela who are way way smaller than a ghadorah sized target.

I mean even if Godzilla got stronger, we don't know how much but even Kong was able to fight with him and make him struggle, do you think that Kong is stronger than Ghidorah?

@johndeyvido said:

Not headcnaon man, but the filmmaker admitting that those stats were mistakes.

Ghidorah storms were ravaging across the planet, and it easily matched atomic breath which could go to the core.

Meanwhile, Surtur's strongest attack is a ground based shockwave that he killed himself with. That destroyed a small country, never mind the fact that Ghidoru can fly over the attack.

@infinitymatrix: Ghidorahs storms aren't combat applicable but yea he still wins here.

@eredin12:

And he does not need to use his full power to win here. Merely using island level force, 1000 times less than he did when he destroyed Asgard, to strike Ghidorah several times will get the job done. His most powerful attack was more of a country level. He does not need that much force.

Once again, he cannot use island level force without killing himself, you said that the shockwaves are weaker then the actual attack right? Well yea your right, but when Surtur made the shockwave, he struck his sword into the ground and then Asgard blew up, the shockwave was 1000 times weaker then the actual attack but that's because the actual attack was Asgard blowing up lol, there is no proof that he can use attacks that strong without killing himself.

Football ball has mass of around 400g and if you watched any football match, you know that goalkeepers kick it to middle of stadium and beyond all the time, which is more than 50 meters. Now try to move even 100 kg object by air pressure of your kick and you will see how successful you are

You said punch, not kick, punching is different then kicking lol also it's not possible for humans to create shockwaves because shockwaves travel like 340 meters per second.

And what we saw is that his strongest attack is country level, he can use 100 times weaker attack and that would still be more energy than KG took over 19 seconds all focused in single second,

The shockwave of the attack was island level lol, everything else we saw from Surtur was mountain level.

Tbh this to me seems like classical case of DC fan denial.

Why would it be a DC fan denial?

After all, are you not same guy who argued that DCEU Superman can beat Surtur, unironically?

Yea because Surtur can't tag him and Surtur would eventually kill himself by using his strongest attack, Clark has the travel and reaction speed to escape before the attack hits him.

I was going to remind everyone how hilarious of a size difference they have but Eredin already did that.

@ironandfire: Because he was still growing lol At his max shown 12,000 feet

Literally no way you would look at this face and not want to give him a big ass hug.

Not even hela could resist his luscious gaze.

Godzilla, Ghidorah, and Muto Prime all scale to Multi Cont with Kong and MG being arguable aswell i'd have to check back on scales for them again, But Goji, Prime, and King Ghid are all tops of the verse

Why do people think that cutting Ghidorah is gonna kill him for good? Did they not see him literally alive as just a single head? Lol

@jurance:

The person literally specifies King Kong height. They said nothing about Godzilla atomic energy being incorrect.

Hmmm

@eredin12:

As if Surtur needed his strongest attack to destroy Clark lol. Guy who died to 300 KT Nuke. Even 0,001% of his strongest attack, would vaporize Clark. And given that Surtur is confirmed to be Mach 40 and given that he has AoE attacks, tagging Clark would be very easy but that is matter for another time. I just wanted to point out how much you wank DCEU which is why this is not surprising

Cool.

I will repeat this one ore time, if you still do not understand my point after that then i think will leave it to others. But let us break it down one more time:

1. Surtur unleashed country level attack on Asgard

Small Country level.

2. Country level attack created island level shockwave, because shockwave was 1000 times weaker than the attack that made it

Yea.

3. Actual, direct attack, rather than shockwave it made, vaporized Hela and destroyd Asgard

Ok?

So yes, Surtur cannot use countrylevel attacks without killing himself, but he can very easily use island level attacks without killing himself.

He only had a few minutes of screen time, so all of us can safely say that he never easily used island level attacks without killing himself.

When i say this i mean that strikes themselves would be island level this time, rather than shockwaves they made being that strong. Shockwave is always much, much weaker than attack that made it. When he unleashed country level attack, it made island level shockwave. When he here unleashes large island level attack, he will make city+ level shockwaves Such large island level attacks, all focused on sharp sword, will be capable of cutting and killing KG. Unlike Blasts from Big G, they will not be spread over 19 seconds, but all force will be delivered instantly.

But hes never used large island level attacks before, lol, everyone knows this. Shockwave was 1000x weaker then his full power attack, and his casual attacks were destroying Asgardian skyscrapers, I go off of what I've seen unless the character has proper scaling, Surtur doesn't have proper scaling, the best you can do is scale him above Thor but Thors fodder compared to MV Kaijus.

Mountain level is bellow even feats Thor himself has

No it's not lol, Thor is like city level max.

Either works for my analogy. And shockwaves are what we call air pressure moving that fast, we cannot make them, but ones who do, ones who hit with such strength and speed , would still, just like us, have just as much more destructive hits themselves, than air pressure coming from them

K.