Kenshiro vs Jotaro Kujo

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OmegaDynasty

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#1  Edited By OmegaDynasty
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Lex Diamonds

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#2  Edited By Lex Diamonds

Kenshiro

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Nelomaxwell

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#3  Edited By Nelomaxwell

Son you be reading my  mind some times.
Round 1: Kenshiro
Round 2: This is tough Jotaro can stop time but Ken using the Null incarnation technique can move at light speed if i remember.
@OmegaDynasty:

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OmegaDynasty

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#4  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@Nelomaxwell said:
" Son you be reading my  mind some times.
Round 1: Kenshiro
Round 2: This is tough Jotaro can stop time but Ken using the Null incarnation technique can move at light speed if i remember.
@OmegaDynasty: "
 Ha!
Yeah, well he can only do it for five seconds. Then you have the fact that Jotaro's stand's punches are strong enough to break diamonds.


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Nelomaxwell

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#5  Edited By Nelomaxwell
@OmegaDynasty:  Ken becomes intangible with that null incarnation thing so it could be hard to hit him.
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OmegaDynasty

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#6  Edited By OmegaDynasty
@Nelomaxwell said:
" @OmegaDynasty:  Ken becomes intangible with that null incarnation thing so it could be hard to hit him. "
True.

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I guess it's who ever attacks first. If Kenshiro uses his Musai Tensai then he wins, but if Jotaro stops time then he can take him out I think. Seeing how he doesn't use his own fist but his stands to attacks no pressure points could be hit in a direct h2h fight. 

  
  
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Nelomaxwell

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#7  Edited By Nelomaxwell

 Depends. If his chi can bypass the stand Jotaro's fucked up. And i only bring that up cause Hokuto No Ken is like batman's utility belt there's a fix for everything

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saiyan_earthling

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#8  Edited By saiyan_earthling

R1) Kenshiro
R2) Jotaro

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DarthAznable

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I'll say Ken Round 1 and 2 is a toss up.

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primebonnick

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Round 1 ken

Round 2 man no idea to be honest

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thatguywithheadphones

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Jotaro stomps.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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I'd go with Kenshiro with round 1 and Jotaro on round 2

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Mayan_Fist

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Round 1: Kenshiro

Round 2: Could go either way.

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RealityWarper

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Ken round 1
Jotaro round 2, the time stop is too much

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kbm

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1. Ken

2. Jotaro stomps hard

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Jotaro both rounds. Kenshiro isn't a Stand user and therefore probably won't be able to even see Star Platinum and therefore wouldn't be able to counter his onslaught. Jojo ain't a bitch either, he's extremely perceptive and has pretty good reflexes, which MAY allow him to dodge Kenshiro's attacks on his own long enough for Star Platinum to punch his skull in. Let's say Jojo himself isn't fast enough; Star Platinum, on the other hand, is more than fast enough to block/protect Jojo from any attack Kenshiro might throw his way. People think that Kenshiro's Muso Tensei would help but it probably won't. It makes him impervious to physical attack but Stands aren't physical beings, they're spiritual. Considering he can commune with souls in this state it implies he's on a spiritual plane, the same as a Stand, meaning although this would probably be the only time he can see a stand, it also means that stands can more likely than not still tag him. And then there's the time stop which, no matter what he does, Kenshiro just doesn't have anything to counter it, which means Kenshiro is already dead (pun? doubt it).

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sirfizzwhizz

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#17  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

Depends on two factors.

Factor one, Stand and Ki are different:

In this case Kenshiro both rounds. People want to say Ken cannot see the Stand and Ken has no counter to time stop. Fine. Joe has no counter to the Ki aura that Ken has when serious.

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That thing in manga auto protects with punches and blows without a Hokuten master ever having to lift a finger.

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Same Ki aura can paralyze other with fear with a Stare unless your another user of equivalent power in the manga. So that argument of the Stand being unseen and untouchable trump card does not fly.

Factor two, due to both peoples power in a neutral universe, Joe can withstand the aura and Ken can see the Stand.

This is more arguable and comes down to how fast time stop is used. If used off the bat, Joe. If not, then Ken uses range Pressure Point attack like on Souther to kill Joe, or Ken uses range Nanto techniques he learn to slice and dice Joe to bloody bits.

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Noxifer626

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The way I understand it, a Stand is a representation of life force, which is similar to Ki. So Kenshiro, who can sense Ki should be able to "feel" a large amount of it moving around and trying to attack him. He wouldn't know it's a Stand, but he would be able to feel it and dodge it.

As for the Time Stop, Kenshiro has faced reality warping attacks before. Both Hyoh and Kaioh used Anryu Tenha against him, which distorts space to make the opponent lose balance. The technique only worked once on Kenshiro, and the second time it was entirely ineffective against him. I admit however that it is very different from a time stop and Kenshiro may not be able to nullify the latter.

Also, Jotaro has no way of harming Kenshiro if he uses Musou Tensei. It's explicitly stated that only a Musou Tensei user can hurt another Musou Tensei user.

With that out of the way, I'll analyze their "stats":
Strength: Kenshiro can cause avalanches with his punches, carry stones five times taller and three times wider than him and ram a monster twice his size through a steel and concrete bunker claimed to be able to resist a bomb.

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ChomP

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rd 1 Ken

rd 2 ken in a close one

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Tough Jotaro doesnt have the durability feats Tô take hits from Ken he has ftl reactions/Cb speed he stomps

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Boogeymonster

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#21  Edited By Boogeymonster

Stands can explicitly interact with other stands that are intangible, and can't be touched by anything other than other stands.

So, Musou Tensei is not protecting Kenshiro here. Nor does Kenshiro have any defense against time-stop, and he has never encountered it before.

On top of this stands such as Star Platinum can phase into people. As seen when Jotaro uses Star Platinum to stop the beating of his heart, and keep it clutched in its hand. Considering the humongous speed advantage Star Platinum has he could simply crush Kenshiro's heart the moment he gets in its range.

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Does Musou Tensei really make him intangible? Like Danny Phantom intangible????

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Boogeymonster

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#23  Edited By Boogeymonster

@deathhero61 said:

Does Musou Tensei really make him intangible? Like Danny Phantom intangible????

Nil Thought Rebirth or Musou Tensei is a state of mind. Through true sadness he becomes one with nothingness, and therefore ghostly. He can also access the spirits of the deceased when in this technique. Such as Toki. So, there is a spiritual aspect of it.

Since stands have no trouble interacting with other stands? It shouldn't be a problem.

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Does Musou Tensei really make him intangible? Like Danny Phantom intangible????

yes but more like Martian Manhunter's intangibility/quantum phasing where attacks just pass right through him.

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@gentlemantophat: So flash except that he cannot use it to phase through objects.....

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Jotaro annihilates. Not even close

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#27  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@deathhero61 said:

Does Musou Tensei really make him intangible? Like Danny Phantom intangible????

Its stated a state of nothingness.He can avoid hits and counter attack while intangible.

Muso Tensei

The ultimate Technique of Hokuto Shinken is Musou Tensei, which means the State of Nothingness. Only Kenshiro and Raoh are confirm to have been able to do this, though Toki's own Flow Like Water seems to be the same ability as Raoh states in a fight against Kenshiro.

This move is stated to be performed via sorrow, and carrying the sorrow of yourself and others with you. In this state you reach a state of nothingness. In turn you can phase through the physical and Ki of others. It also has the clear effects to present after images as further distractions, and allows one to talk to the dead if you carry them within yourself.

1) First example of Musou Tensei was in the fight vs Shin. After being enraged and heartbroken, Kenshiro has seem to go intangible through Shin's attacks. We also see the trademark after image as well for it. Shin was hopeless to touch Kenshiro after this.

2-3) Examples of Toki's Flow Like Water technique. As seen, he goes intangible through attacks. We also see the after image effect.

4-5) During Kenshiro's fight, Raoh notices Kenshiro has mastered Musou Tensei, but clearly remarks Toki technique as well. The Flow Like Water. In this fight, Kenshiro melts through attacks and counter attacks, while leaving the trademark after images.

6-7) Kenshiro again phases through Raoh's attacks, and damages Roah with counter attacks while phasing through. We also see the clear after image effect again.

8) Kenshiro and Raoh both flow through each other and cause a massive explosion doing so.

9-10) kenshiro uses Musou Tensei to phase through the Ki base attack of this Gento Koken user. Phasing through the hands to nail the foe.

11) Musou Tensei again phasing through Falco's blocking, and disables Falco's hands as a result.

12-13) Musou Tensei is used to dodge the Demonic Ki attacks of Kaioh, and Kaioh states the after image effect makes for great distraction. kenshiro also states no one can locate his body due to there being nothingness.

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Animated version of the feat against Raoh.

@don_higashikata said:

Ken annihilates. Not even close

Fixed. Jotaro is slower by far in feats, and cannot tank one Ki blast much less pressure Point Blasts.

Nanto Kōkaku Ken

1) The Techniqoue of air pressure to slice foes from a distance learn from Yuda used on Shu.

2) Cuts two demons in half with the range technique learn from Yuda.

Range Pressure Point Attacks

1-3) Kenshiro targets pressure points of Souther with Ki energy for range attacks.

4-5) Kenshiro by passes a close combat technique with a pressure point attack at range via Ki.

Ki

Ki is the life force of all things. A inner energy that can be manipulated to perform grant superhuman powers and stats. Great martial artist all learn to harness this Ki in variety of ways for multiple effects. Here is some of Kenshiro feats with Ki.

Ki Blast

1) Kenshiro unleashes an Ki Blast his brother into a win.

2) Stated to learn this move from Raoh as he uses it on Han.

Aura Fear

1-2) Tiger senses nothing but death from Kenshiro.

3) The Horse King, strongest horse in the word, and a being worthy of Raoh's power fears Kenshiro.

4) Attack dogs back down in fear.

Aura AOE

1-4) The Ki of Raoh and Kenshiro cause intense winds all around them, and even allowed for limited flight.

5-6) The energy of Falco and kenshiro split the clouds above in two.

7-9) The Aura generates massive TK that lifts the multi ton boulders all around them, and crushes said boulders around them.

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Raoh and Kenshiro causes the solid earth to rise, buildings to fall, and generate lightning effects all around the fight.

Aura Shield

1-2) Kaioh's blasts energy at Kenshiro which then brushes off his shield.

3-4) Kenshiro uses his aura to pushback a large waterfall.

GG

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Don_Higashikata

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@sirfizzwhizz: Lemme break it down for you, here's what happens

So this Kenshiro guy and Jotaro face each other down. The gong bangs, the fight is on. Kenshiro is lying dead on the floor, punched into ketchup, not knowing what happened

Jotaro lols at a guy trying to do martials arts vs. time stop and walks away to go look at pirctures of marine life

But let's say round 2 happens, and Jotaro decides to not use time stop.

The gong bangs, the fight is on. Kenshiro readies his super ultra building buster attacks and throws it at Jotaro, only to be surprised that nothing happens. He starts wailing on Jotaro but finds nothing connects, and is totally confused. Jotaro wonders why a non-Stand user is even trying to fight something he can't see and punches Kenshiro's head off at FTL+ speeds. He then walks away to go look at pirctures of marine life

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FlashingSabre

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Jotaro Kujo is just a wannabe knock off.

Yare Yare Daze.

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Toratorn

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@omegadynasty: you can break diamonds with a sledgehammer, so that feat is as unimpressive as it gets.

Kenshiro stomps.

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Boogeymonster

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Star Platinum is literally faster than the speed of light, and acts as an extension of Jotaro. He doesn't need to move because it can do that for him.

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Kenshiro is nowhere as fast, and add to that Star Platnium can phase through people.

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Star Platinum can simply phase its hand into Kenshiro's chest, and crush his heart.

As for feats even Silver Chariot, which is slower and less powerful than Star Platinum, can intercept the Hanged Man which is literally made out of light and able to transport itself through mirrors and reflective surfaces that way.

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BeaconofStrength

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Kenshrio is getting blitzed both rounds.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@toratorn: pretty much. Jotaro and Dio are so overrated.

@beaconofstrength: more like Jotaro gets blitz mate. There is no legit lightnspeed feats for Jotaro and Kenshiro has better quantifiable speed feats by far.

Even if you want to argue time stop, Jotaro using time stop during Kenshiro's Musou Tensei makes the 3 second time stop useless. Add to this Jotaronis limited on the use of time stop.

In short Kenshiro has more options, can tank and heal from whatever Jotaro throws at him easy, and can simply stay in Musou Tensei mode a whole fight like he did vs Raoh and Kaioh. Jotaro mean while gets one shot.

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BeaconofStrength

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#35  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@sirfizzwhizz:

more like Jotaro gets blitz mate. There is no legit lightnspeed feats for Jotaro and Kenshiro has better quantifiable speed feats by far.

Silver Chariot literally hit a confirmed beam of light straight out of the air, and an amped version of Chariot was slower than pre-World Star Platinum. Not to mention in Stone Ocean, it outright says star platinum is FTL, despite Jotaro being rusty. Star Platinum is objectively faster than Kenshiro.

I'm not even taking the 5 second time stop into consideration which makes it even easier for Jotaro.

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GentlemanTopHat

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@sirfizzwhizz: Lemme break it down for you, here's what happens

So this Kenshiro guy and Jotaro face each other down. The gong bangs, the fight is on. Kenshiro is lying dead on the floor, punched into ketchup, not knowing what happened

Jotaro lols at a guy trying to do martials arts vs. time stop and walks away to go look at pirctures of marine life

But let's say round 2 happens, and Jotaro decides to not use time stop.

The gong bangs, the fight is on. Kenshiro readies his super ultra building buster attacks and throws it at Jotaro, only to be surprised that nothing happens. He starts wailing on Jotaro but finds nothing connects, and is totally confused. Jotaro wonders why a non-Stand user is even trying to fight something he can't see and punches Kenshiro's head off at FTL+ speeds. He then walks away to go look at pirctures of marine life

Musou Tensei can boost Kenshiro's durability to superhuman levels he can tank skyscrapers falling on him

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Boogeymonster

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#37  Edited By Boogeymonster

I literally provided Star Platinum's profile page from Stone Ocean where the author explicitly notes that Star Platnium is faster than light. As for feats Silver Chariot, he could also block many of The Sun's beams of sunlight. As well as the aforementioned Hanged Man instance. Star Platinum is explicitly faster than Silver Chariot, and noted as the most powerful stand up until that point.

As I already noted Star Platinum can phase into people.

You're going to have to get me some instances of internal durability for him.

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BeaconofStrength

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#38  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@boogeymonster:

I literally provided Star Platnium profile page from Stone Ocean where the author explicitly notes that Star Platnium is faster than light.

Unfortunately, proof isn't good enough apparently.

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DeathHero61

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Also Kenshiro Respect Thread is up.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/fist-of-the-north-star-respect-thread-1865162/

Jotaro Kujo is just a wannabe knock off.

To be fair, JJBA was inspired by fist of the north star to begin with..... FOTNS inspired many anime/manga like Jojo.

And amazing respect thread, I am still so far behind, yet you read the entire series already.

On topic, Jotaro should win if he gets serious right away, otherwise, Ken will fuck him up with the Hokuto. 5 seconds is good enough to avoid attacks and counterattack if used in moderation.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@beaconofstrength: yet many charcaters react to "speed of light" attacks mostly do to knowing where the attack is coming from. Iron Man done this lol, though he is not swinging punches at speed of light. Wow mate. Your better than this hyperbole.

Go ahead. Show me Jotaro zipping around the planet and throwing a million punches in a second. I will wait for those scans mate.

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BeaconofStrength

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#41  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@sirfizzwhizz:

yet many charcaters react to "speed of light" attacks mostly do to knowing where the attack is coming from. Iron Man done this lol, though he is not swinging punches at speed of light. Wow mate. Your better than this hyperbole.

Hyperbole? It's literally stated in the databook, and Silver Chariot hit the light after it was fired - Chariot also hit down 2 of the sun's light beams. A weaker version of Star Platinum was said to be faster than light, and pre-World Star Platinum dominated an amped Chariot.

Don't even try to go for the generic "b-but the databook uses hyperbole, because that's objectively false".

Go ahead. Show me Jotaro zipping around the planet and throwing a million punches in a second. I will wait for those scans mate.

Jotaro isn't FTL, Star Platinum is, and it has to stay within a certain range of Jotaro. You'd know this if you actually knew anything about JoJo.

Sorry, but you can't twist Kenshiro getting blitzed, the proof was already posted.

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sirfizzwhizz

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#42  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@beaconofstrength: so..... no scans of Jotaro moving around lightnspeed and throwing millions of blows a second time frame? Not one?

Got it. Quit wanking then. Feats mate. Not hyperbole BS

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BeaconofStrength

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@sirfizzwhizz: Pulling up scans, give me a bit. Have to dig through chapters.

Got it. Quit wanking then. Feats mate. Not hyperbole BS

But in the meantime, how the hell is it hyperbole? I'm genuinely curious on how you think it's hyperbole besides "I don't like it". JoJo's databook has literally never had any hyperbole and has been very accurate explaining powers. Tell me how that is hyperbole.

Also, I literally just said Jotaro doesn't move at lightspeed, Stat Platinum, his stand does.

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BeaconofStrength

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@sirfizzwhizz: Here's a scan and video to show you Silver Chariot, a stand decently slower than Star Platinum even when amped, hitting the Hanged Man, a stand that could travel at lightspeed, out of the air.

Loading Video...
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The only hyperbolic statement in the scan confirming Star Platinum was FTL, is the fact that he was the most powerful stand in the universe, which was true at the time, until a universal stand with infinite speed came into play.

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sirfizzwhizz

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@beaconofstrength: Once again all you showed is one single stand alone feat of reacting to e single lightbeam attack. Yet...........

Loading Video...

As seen clearly in EVERY fight, the Stand Users like Dio and Jotaro are more than able to follow the attacks of their stands. If their Stands are Lightspeed mate, how is it the users of the stands follow long the attacks and mentally keep up?

Seriously now.

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BeaconofStrength

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#46  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@sirfizzwhizz: Guess feats and databook statements don't count if you don't like them enough. Forgot to mention Silver Chariot hit the sun's beams of light out of the air, too. Polnareff even said he can't see something light speed, which is why he left it up to Silver Chariot.

Also, in the video you showed they're really only keeping up with the fact that they know their stands are trading blows, not looking at every precise hit. The closes thing Jotaro kept up with is that The World grazed him, when there was a pause in the battle.

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sirfizzwhizz

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#47  Edited By sirfizzwhizz

@beaconofstrength: you simply cannot back your claim of speed blitz. All you shown at best is Star Platnum may be able to react to a single light speed attack. Much like Iron Man did. You failed to show Jotaro or his Stand moving at light speed, throwing millions of blows a second, or blitzing anyone Superman style.

In the video when someone gets hit, and the blood flows the blood is falling in real time while only a dozen aftershocks are shown. They are fully able to see the others Stand. Even when Jotaro is time frozen he is able to follow The World fine to time his own Time Stop.

I proven and can continue to show every fight of Jotaro and his Stand not moving light speed at all, barely hypersonic in fact, in fights.

Just stop. You bust out bullshit that I can all day easily debunk with feats, and you want to hug a false, or worse very one time instant, light speed feat? Wow. Guess in your strange world of feats Jotaro can face Flash fine, I mean hile is light speed now.

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#48  Edited By BeaconofStrength

@sirfizzwhizz: Looks like we can't convince each other otherwise. No point in debating if we're just going to go in circles. No need to be passive aggressive, honey.

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The stands are literally extensions of themselves, and they sense everything they do. They are seeing, and sensing through them. Which is ignoring that even as of Battle Tendency we have characters such as Cars being able to react to a laser based on ultra-violet light after the fact, and Jospeh and Caesar dodging the Red Stone of Aja's sunlight beam. The Stone of Aja acting like a magnifying glass, and refracting sunlight.