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#1 Posted by BlitzSikes (1918 posts) - - Show Bio

Place tournament of power

In character

Until ko or death. No ring outs

Who wins

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#2 Posted by Lordflawlez (971 posts) - - Show Bio

Gogeta stomps

SS4 Vegeta > ss2 caulifa

SS4 goku > kale

Kefla isn't surviving a star dust breaker from ss4 gogeta

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#3 Posted by Standardized (960 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordflawlez:

No.

Kefla > SSJBKK goku.

SSJBKK Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone in gt.

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#4 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla stomps mismatch. GT Goku and Vegeta are well below SSJG Goku.

Kefla should have enough durability and combat speed to fight SSJB Goku. This is a mismatch.

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#5 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

ahhh forget about it

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#6 Posted by Emanresu_20 (2107 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I hate to say it Kefla. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5b84aca03eae8 (6261 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla wrecks

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#8 Posted by Alsimmons77 (1441 posts) - - Show Bio

Missmatch, Kefla murderstomps.

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#9 Posted by DrPepperMan (5758 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla solos GT.

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#10 Posted by ElderElijah190 (1727 posts) - - Show Bio

Spite.

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#11 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

Ssj4 Gogeta should logically be stronger. People just keep going of that weird universe shockwave feat to prove Super characters are better but that never happened again and it never made sense in the first place. And you can't say it's because Goku figured out how to counter it because characters besides Goku above SSG level have fought each other and it didn't happen to them.

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#12 Edited by Lordflawlez (971 posts) - - Show Bio

People posting trash

Mystic Gohan also fought blue for a while and he's weaker than ss4 goku

Omega shenron was beating 2 ss4 at the same time yet ss4 gogeta stomped all over shenron

The only people more powerful than gogeta in Super tournaments is ui goku and jiren that's it

No one is surviving a star dust breaker

Janenba who had the power to manipulate the universe got stomped by gogeta much less the ss4 version

ss4 goku dragon punch will one shot both kale and caulifa

And when Merged it's no different since the two that makes up gogeta is stronger than the two that makes up kefla

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#13 Posted by Lordflawlez (971 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread:

This isn't about GT Goku and Vegeta but gogeta

For your information, Omega shenron was stomping all over ss4 goku and Vegeta like they were fodders, when they transformed into gogeta, they proceeded to stomp all over shenron the same way he did them

According to gogeta shenron attacks only tickles him, someone who was already beating two ss4 at the same time.

SS4Gogeta is several tiers above ss4 goku and Vegeta.

SS4 goku can hold his own against blue since ultimate Gohan can do so and Gohan is weaker that ss4 goku

While ssg is on par with ss4 or slightly stronger, he isn't beating two ss4 at the same time. Heck blue wouldn't be able to do that either

Gogeta on the other hand is much stronger than a being stronger than two ss4. Let that sink in

SS4 goku will factually stomp kale or caulifa if they fought and so will Vegeta.

When fused nothing changes, gogeta stomps them, they aren't surviving a star dust breaker that a universal level being couldn't survive

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#14 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordflawlez: Just to be clear I used feats in DB universe over scaling ( even withing universe) unlike most DB fan people in vine. Kefa stomps handily.

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#15 Posted by Lordflawlez (971 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

Honestly people here overrate super characters beyond belief

I mean Gohan defeated a lot of the people he fought and held his own against blue goku and that Gohan is factually weaker that ss4 goku.

This means ss4 goku will be able to match blue for a while, much better than Gohan ever did.

I don't think blue can beat two ss4 either, especially a limit surpassed ss4. Then comes ss4 gogeta who is much more powerful than the guy who beats up two ss4 and people think he would lose to kefla? Lmao

SS4 gogeta upper limits weren't even shown since everyone was beneath him but with common sense he should stomp kefla since both goku and Vegeta are more powerful than caulifa and kale

I wonder why people here just post outta their ass

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#16 Edited by Lordflawlez (971 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread:

What Feats puts kefla over gogeta who was never defeated by anything or anyone?

Heck he was never even troubled by any thing Omega shenron did, in fact he was trolling shenron and telling him to try harder, shenron is the dude who beats two ss4 at the same time

That's for u to know how powerful gogeta is.

Shenron in the tournament would beat the crap outta 90% of people there. Yet he's fodder to gogeta

Janemba can manipulate the entire universe and get he couldn't survive gogeta star dust breaker, kefla who is not even universal isn't surviving that either

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#17 Posted by Standardized (960 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread:

What Feats puts kefla over gogeta who was never defeated by anything or anyone?

Heck he was never even troubled by any thing Omega shenron did, in fact he was trolling shenron and telling him to try harder, shenron is the dude who beats two ss4 at the same time

That's for u to know how powerful gogeta is.

Shenron in the tournament would beat the crap outta 90% of people there. Yet he's fodder to gogeta

Janemba can manipulate the entire universe and get he couldn't survive gogeta star dust breaker, kefla who is not even universal isn't surviving that either

Kefla stomping blue kaioken goku. Whis saying that her power rivaled the spirit bomb goku was hit with. Roshi stating that if keflas energy were to hit Unmastered ultra instinct goku that it would kill him.

And janemba isn't canon to gt so who cares lmao.

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#18 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordflawlez:

What Feats puts kefla over gogeta who was never defeated by anything or anyone?

the fact that even weaker characters than kefla gave better feats. Just because a character is not defeated does not mean he can not be defeated. Terrible logic. With this I can prove Gogeta is omnipotent lol.

Heck he was never even troubled by any thing Omega shenron did, in fact he was trolling shenron and telling him to try harder, shenron is the dude who beats two ss4 at the same time

So what ? Omega shenron himself should get stomped by Kefla.

That's for u to know how powerful gogeta is.

I know he is powerful but Kefla is on another level.

Shenron in the tournament would beat the crap outta 90% of people there. Yet he's fodder to gogeta

Janemba can manipulate the entire universe and get he couldn't survive gogeta star dust breaker, kefla who is not even universal isn't surviving that either

Janemba is not cannon. Also he was not manipulating the whole universe, Star dust breaker is just another fancy name of an attack that negated the evil energy.

Its just another fancy attack like "super ghost kamikaze ghost attack"

now -

As a SSJG Goku matched a casual multi planet buster and a star buster. Then he became SSJB . Vegeta in base in DBS was performing FTL feat on panel, Goku put a whole on king kais planet. These are feats in DBS. not in DBZ or DBGT. DBS character were written on another level.

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#19 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized: even if Janemba is cannon it does not change anything.

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#20 Posted by Standardized (960 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized: even if Janemba is cannon it does not change anything.

I know it doesn't change anything but I don't know why he keeps bringing it up lmao.

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#21 Posted by ComicGirl21 (905 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla. She has a potara fusion of SSJ 2 Berserk form guys. Do you even get how much power that is???

SSJ Berserk > SSJ Blue

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...and SSJ Blue > SSJ 4. Add the potara fusion multiplications, and SSJ 2 multiplications, and just try to grasp how hard of a stomp this is.

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#22 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@standardized: Gt characters are totally outclassed in combat speed, ki manip and striking power. DBS is on another level to GT it is what it is. Some people have trouble accepting it lets see what lord flawlezz said.

People posting trash

Mystic Gohan also fought blue for a while and he's weaker than ss4 goku

Mystic Gohan vs Goku happened in DBS. That is a DBS feat why should it relate to anything in GT. DBS was written on another level so it should make sense but on In DBS.

Omega shenron was beating 2 ss4 at the same time yet ss4 gogeta stomped all over shenron

SS4 is miles below SSJG let alone SSB.

The only people more powerful than gogeta in Super tournaments is ui goku and jiren that's it

I doubt it. SSB Vegeta would win against him.

No one is surviving a star dust breaker

That attack is not impressive in the first place. The only reason it worked on Janemba was due to his negative energy. It should be clear that this is non cannon feat.

Janenba who had the power to manipulate the universe got stomped by gogeta much less the ss4 version

ss4 goku dragon punch will one shot both kale and caulifa

Given the combat speed that will most likely be dodged or stopped with her omni directional ki burst proceeded with a KO.

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#23 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicgirl21: Goku want full power there. A tired SSG beat a stronger version of Kale later.

Ssj Berserk<SSG<SSB

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#24 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: when did a tired SSG beat Kale. the fight ended because her sister was not match between goku and kale. Besides both of them are from DBS. DBGT SS4 is below SSJG Goku.

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#25 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Goku said it was over and was about to blast both off the edge. She wasn't getting stomped like Caulifla, but she was clearly portrayed as inferior.

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#26 Posted by MetalJimmor (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

Ssj4 Gogeta should logically be stronger. People just keep going of that weird universe shockwave feat to prove Super characters are better but that never happened again and it never made sense in the first place. And you can't say it's because Goku figured out how to counter it because characters besides Goku above SSG level have fought each other and it didn't happen to them.

Didn't Omega Shenron have a dubiously universal scale feat like the god shockwaves too? I strongly remember people arguing GT top tiers were all universe busters long before Super was ever a thing.

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#27 Edited by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: Ya something like that. I think it was a statement.

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#28 Posted by MetalJimmor (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss:

I think Omega Shenron was releasing negative energy that was slowly decaying planets and would eventually spread to destroy the entire universe. That on top of a Universal Spirit Bomb being what was needed to kill him is what people were using to say Omega Shenron was universe level, and thus SSJ4 Gogeta was muli-universal.

It kind of amuses me that the characters were all fervently argued to be universal before Super was a thing, but now everyone is agreeing that they are way below that level.

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#29 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Goku said it was over and was about to blast both off the edge. She wasn't getting stomped like Caulifla, but she was clearly portrayed as inferior.

She was outskilled by Goku. We know Kale only has power and skill does matter. We know how intelligent and improvising fighter Goku is. She was portrayed as not too inferior she was clearly up and ready to fight. But then they fused together.

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#30 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Goku went right through her ki blast and his ki blast went right through hers and it took her a while to deflect it. And that was while Goku was confirmed to still be tired.

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#31 Posted by Itachus17 (3050 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by cromulor (1597 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla does to Gogeta what Gogeta was doing to Omega. When your Base beats Super Saiyan God Goku and your Super Saiyan beats Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken Goku, you’re too far for GT characters.

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#33 Edited by Kothoga (388 posts) - - Show Bio
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Kefla is confirmed Universe+. Why do other animes accept the hyperbole but Dragon Ball Super gets lowballed? There's no reason to believe she lied in this panel.

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#34 Posted by BlitzSikes (1918 posts) - - Show Bio

@kothoga: that could be just an over exaggerated statement though

Like someone normal human saying "I feel like I could wrestle an Alligator" or "I feel like a million bucks"

Or even "damn he's as strong as an oxe"

Normal humans over exegerate all the time. I'm assuming this may be Kefla's case here

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#35 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: I am aware Goku had stamina issues. He went through her ki blast where he as a SSJG I do not see that as a particularly Bad showing. Also since SSJG >> SSJ4 and that is just kale.

She did have trouble deflecting SSJG Goku ki blast but she did it anyway. I think Gokus stamin issue should not be confused with lower level of power output though.

Strength or striking power =/= stamina. Stamina only affects how long Goku could have kept his form up. As it is basically taxing and he will get tired or need to rest to recover stamina. As you can see stamina involved your ability to have more capacity to perform prolonged work, but not going to affect your max lift/ strike. This is analogous to the real world. myself have felt it. I can elaborate more on this if you want. But my point is Kefla should comfortable be close to to SSJB this is however going by being absolutely sure. Some people overate kefla I am not doing that.

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#36 Posted by SuperDragonfly9 (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

I want SSJ4 Gogeta to win but logically Kefla should win. It's like they made everybody in DBS TOP universe level except Roshi, Krillin, and Tien. Even 18 is supposedly universe level according to vsbattle.

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#37 Edited by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: I mean being tired does affect your max lifting strength. Try maxing out on the bench, squat or deadlift while tired vs when you are fresh. It will make a difference.

But even if Kale was even with SSG Goku, I'm not sure if that's enough to make up for Caulifla.

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#38 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Lucano (3261 posts) - - Show Bio

@kothoga said:
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Kefla is confirmed Universe+. Why do other animes accept the hyperbole but Dragon Ball Super gets lowballed? There's no reason to believe she lied in this panel.

Using a statement where the character clearly says "I feel", when she has never, EVER opperated on that level is hardly a "confirmed" power level.

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#40 Posted by SuperDragonfly9 (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: Just going by what the information says

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Android_18 (Universe level because she defeated Ribrianne)

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Frost_(Dragon_Ball) (Frost because he defeated Piccolo)

http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Piccolo (Piccolo because he can fight Frost)

None of these make sense to me

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#41 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdragonfly9: Ya don't listen to that. Super is inconcisten from from statements from characters and the writers I just go with GoD level being universe level. In the ToP I would say Jiren and UI Goku are universe level with GoD Toppo, SSB2 Vegeta, and ssj2 Kefla being others who could possibly be universe level. In the Black arc SSB Vegito and universe Zamasu are probably universe level as well.

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#42 Edited by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: the difference in your max bench or squat or deadlift will be very little. From my personal experience 2-5 kgs give our take. I'll explain why.

Basically your max lifting strength comes from fast-twitch muscle fibres (type II). Type 1 or slow twitched are for endurance based work like lower weight high rep range.

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You 1 rep max wont be affected by by a little glycogen depletion. Even when I am tired I have hardly felt much difference in my 1 rep max.

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#43 Posted by slimj87d (15629 posts) - - Show Bio

Kefla.

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#44 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: Ya I'm not saying you'll lose half your strength, but you definitely aren't getting a PR while exhausted.

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#45 Edited by BlitzSikes (1918 posts) - - Show Bio

@empressofdread: go run 5 miles and then try to lift your max on bench. You'll see real fast how low stamina can affect you.

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#46 Posted by BlitzSikes (1918 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: @empressofdread: we have to consider that Empressofdread Is An Olympic caliber athlete. I mean don't you know that everyone on comic vine can Solo gorillas and can lift 5 times their body weight so a little thing like slow stamina isn't shit to them? I mean some dude or girl on here clearly knows what he/she/it is taking about when it comes to fitness.

Alextheboss With the humor of a comicvine keyboard Olympian out of the way, do you think Kefla stands a chance at all?

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#47 Posted by AlexTheBoss (15122 posts) - - Show Bio

@blitzsikes: Considering this fight is completely based off of scaling of two shows that don't follow each other I will say sure. There is really no definitive proof either way. I just go with ssj4 Gogeta as even if Super characters are superior I find it hard to believe it's by so much that ssj2 is stronger than ssj4.

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#48 Posted by DrPepperMan (5758 posts) - - Show Bio

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand kefla still spites.

Curbed SSG Goku and force Goku to go SSBKK, both of which would solo the verse.

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#49 Posted by Wrathofthebrad (758 posts) - - Show Bio

@blitzsikes: Considering this fight is completely based off of scaling of two shows that don't follow each other I will say sure. There is really no definitive proof either way. I just go with ssj4 Gogeta as even if Super characters are superior I find it hard to believe it's by so much that ssj2 is stronger than ssj4.

What?

Kefla is no SSJ2, she's obviously some unknown special version of that(it makes more sense to call it Legandary Super Saiyan 2, or SSJ2 Berserk).

Also could probably even base Kefla already mop the floor with SSJ4 Gogeta, so i would say this thread is pretty much spite.

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#50 Posted by EmpressOfDread (11963 posts) - - Show Bio

@alextheboss: I do not think that minor difference should hold as a point though.