KCM Naruto (ThousandSteps) vs Fishman island Sanji (Exauce) ~ Voting Closed!

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exauce

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#1  Edited By exauce

KCM Naruto (ThousandSteps)

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Fishman Island Sanji (Exauce)

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Rules & Stuff

KCM Naruto vs fishman island Sanji

Energy Equalized

Both Bloodshed

Starting distance: 15 meters

Location: NYC

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CAV Rules

Don't debate in the thread, as it's a match between my opponent and I. If you want to be tagged, ask and you will be. Please vote on who did better and not who you want to win. Enjoy the debate!

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exauce

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ThousandSteps

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@exauce: clean, although don't forget to mention bloodlusted too.

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exauce

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DoTheTwist_

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@exauce: So you'll entertain this colossal mismatch but wont post in Fuji vs Onoki?

T4v I need to see this foolishness

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exauce

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@dothetwist_: U still want that? Alright I post on that then Lol

Alright

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ThousandSteps

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@dothetwist_: Based on what my opponent told and what I'm arguing KCM Naruto at, this looks to be a relatively equal matchup.

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exauce

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AnimeFreak1

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@rdcdesmond:

Delete this

This is a CAV

Not a normal thread

So delete your post

This is just between Excause and Thousand steps

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exauce

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#11  Edited By exauce

@rdcdesmond: Bruh u can't do that on a CaV delete ur post

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RDCDesmond

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RDCDesmond

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ThousandSteps

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bruh. And I won't use that tenpenchii feat since logically it doesn't make sense.

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exauce

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#15  Edited By exauce
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ThousandSteps

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RikuYamaha

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T4V and TAEP this looks fun

In a mismatch sort of way

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Edgelord91

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TAEP

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FaradaySloth

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No.

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citgo

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Naruto vs Naruto.

Naruto wins

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El_directo_

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I'm just here for ma boi exauce.

T4V.

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eazy2002

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Let's give exauce a chance to prove himself

Taep

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#23  Edited By ThousandSteps

Naruto Uzumaki

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Opener

This specific version of Naruto is one I haven't personally seen alot in CaVs, which is part of the reason why I wanted to rep him. KCM Naruto also happens to boast one of my favorite fighting styles within the Narutoverse, which I wanted to showcase, and should make for a fun first step into CaVs.

Now at the time of making this post, I have yet to read a single chapter of One Piece. The only thing I know about this specific version of Sanji is that my opponent will be arguing him at a level similar to mine, which should make for a fair CaV, on paper at least. I will be reading on the relevant chapters of course as my opponent posts.

With that out of the way, let's get it started. Also, bear with me with the formatting, I kinda suck at those things.

Jinchuriki, KCM, and scalings

This part of my post will be the cornerstone of my arguments. The way I will be scaling KCM Naruto will all be justified here, so I urge the readers and my opponent to pay attention here.

Let's take it from the top. A Jinchuriki is a shinobi host to a Tailed Beast. Naruto is host to the Kurama, the Nine-Tails, therefore he is a jinchuriki. Jinchurikis have historically been used by villages to increase their military might, and they themselves have a varying degree of control over their beasts.

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This is relevant, because we learn that a Tailed Beast that's rampaging by itself cannot be as strong as a Jinchuriki that can control their Tailed Beast. We see Deidara easily defeating a Tailed Beast by itself, while Kisame had alot of trouble with Roshi, the host of another Tailed Beast, despite the fact that Kisame is the single best hunter of the Akatsuki:

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This is further reaffirmed when Obito managed to become the Jinchuriki of the Ten Tails, Hachibi himself directly explaining this to us:

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Basically, a Jinchuriki that can control their beasts power >> a Tailed Beast rampaging by itself.

With this said, now let's see what KCM Naruto is.

By his own words, KCM is the state where he controls his Tailed Beast:

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Any argument against Naruto not controlling/partially controlling Kurama is blatantly wrong, this is reaffirmed many times:

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In other words, KCM Naruto >= a rampaging 50% Kurama at 9 tails >> a rampaging 50% Kurama at 8 and less tails

One distinction needs to be made however. Naruto lacks Kurama's cooperation and as such is not a perfect Jinchuriki. He has 3 negative attributes that perfect Jinchurikis don't:

  • KCM Naruto does not have the genjutsu immunity
  • He is in a constant power struggle with Kurama
  • He lacks the Tailed Beast Bomb (TBB)

Thankfully, he can rely on his own abilites while augmented by KCM state. One last thing before I end this section, KCM Naruto is blatantly said to be much stronger than when he was fighting Pain, and that's referring to Sage Mode/Kyuubi rampaging.

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I'll reiterate it: KCM Naruto >= a rampaging 50% Kurama at 9 tails >> a rampaging 50% Kurama at 8 and less tails based on the explanations given to us.

Now let's actually move on to his offensive and defensive prowess.

Offensive Capabilities

Commanding Kyuubi's powers, you know he is bound to be a threat. His casual roars in a weaker form were able to form a hill sized crater:

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As far as some of his strength feat goes, in much weaker states he was able to launch a giant rhino (that probably weights at least ten tons) up into the sky with almost zero difficulty, as well as create massive shockwaves from just the wave of his hand :

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Now while Naruto doesn't rely alot on his strength in KCM state, the above shows that if Sanji (which I presume is around average human weight) ever loses his brace on ground, he is going to get ragdolled.

What Naruto will be using as his main attacks will be the Rasengan. This attack potency based jutsu is best explained below:

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This damages the opponent on the inside out, as seen on the water tank below:

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Now I'm not gonna waste anyone's time and skip straight into one of the Rasengan's strongest application in KCM, the Planetary Rasengan:

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A very strong attack where the victim gets struck by 4 Rasengans (3 of which is orbiting the bigger one) that can launch the victims through solid rock pillars:

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But the real kicker is the fact that this attack is so strong, it can delay Edo Tensei regeneration:

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For reference, Edo Tenseis are reincarnated shinobis (basically zombies) that posses some strong healing factor, as they regenerate from pretty much anything (with some limited exceptions):

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So considering severed limbs, destroyed body parts and even atomic disassembly can't delay edo tensei regeneration but this can, you should get a good idea of how powerful the Planetary Rasengan is.

For now, this should suffice as an opener for showcasing Naruto's offensive pressure.

Defensive Measures

Naruto, like most shinobis from his verse, will try avoiding attacks to the best of their abilities. That's how shinobis fight, relying on stealth and deception to trick their opponents and go for the kill shot. So ideally, Naruto will be avoiding direct hits. This does not mean however, that Naruto is incapable of tanking hits. On the contrary, he has decent feats that allows him to take a few hits:

In a weaker form, he is able to face tank his own TBB with basically 0 damage, creating a large hill/small mountain explosion of concussion force:

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Now since I don't know what I'm going up against, I'll leave it at that.

Speed

Unlike the last two sections, I will be going all out on this section. I'm going to comfortably argue KCM Naruto at mid mhs+ speeds (mid quad digit mach) for the sole fact that he was able to completely speed blitz past the Fourth Raikage going at his absolute max:

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To understand the depth of this feat, we need to do some scaling.

Let's start with the infamous Kirin feat Itachi performed. Kirin is an attack that moves at mach 500 region. I'm not making this up, this is simply basic calculation of speed with the timeframe and distance. And we get the canonical values for both:

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A timeframe of 1/1000 second travelling at the very least 200 meters (since it's cloud to ground). The 200 meter height is as much as I could lowball it, cumulonimbus clouds are at the lowest at those heights, here are a few sites for these sources:

Cumulonimbus height range

wikipedia: 500-16000m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumulonimbus_cloud#:~:text=Cumulonimbus%20typically%20go%20through%20three,12.2%20km%20(40%2C000%20ft).

metoffice: 335-1981m

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/learn-about/weather/types-of-weather/clouds/low-level-clouds/cumulonimbus

skystef.be 600-1500m

https://www.skystef.be/clasclouds2.htm

nenes.eas 609-13000m

http://nenes.eas.gatech.edu/Cloud/Clouds.pdf

meteoblue 600-12000m

https://content.meteoblue.com/tr/meteoscool/weather/clouds/cloud-types

I won't argue Itachi has mach 500 combat speed (at least this feat isn't enough to prove it), heck I won't even argue he has those reactions. However, this does show he can mentally register and process information going at those speeds.

The significance of this is the fact that Itachi was massively debilitated when he performed the feat. I'm not making this up:

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Itachi was extremely ill, blinded, exhausted and 5 minutes away from death when he performed that feat. So by very generous estimates, a healthy Itachi would at least be able to process informations going at twice the speed.

The reason why I'm mentioning this is because a healthy Sasuke with the same mangekyo Sharingan as Itachi's would scale to him in mentally registering and processing speeds.

Finally, the Fourth Raikage was going faster than eye (FTE) to that same Sasuke, to the point where he couldn't even keep up and had to make a shield around him:

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Basically, KCM Naruto was able to speed blitz someone that could go FTE to someone with bare minimum mach 1000 processing speeds, which easily puts him at mid quad mach at least. And this was barely after he set out to war.

TLDR: mach 500 processing speed Itachi << a healthy MS Sasuke << 4th Raikage << KCM Naruto

Miscellaneous Abilities

The main thing I will be talking about here is the Shadow Clones:

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These clones make a perfect copy of the user (stat wise) and are completely real and tangible. The only difference is they get dispersed if hit with an attack strong enough to knock them out.

These clones will be mainly used for distraction and information gathering. The first part is obvious, but the latter part refers to the fact that any clone dispersed transfers the info it gained to the original:

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The kicker for this? Naruto can make very large quantities of clones:

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Wrapping up

Considering I don't know anything about Sanji yet, I will refrain from making any bold claims.

However, what I can tell is Sanji will be dealing with an guy that can dish out extreme damage from the inside out, is easily mhs+ in speed and can overwhelm him with clones, while gaining additional info about his opponent every second.

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ThousandSteps

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@exauce: You're up, let me know if you any issues seeing scans.

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UltimateSage

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Taep

Nice

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Edgelord91

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ThousandSteps

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RikuYamaha

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Very nice post. Well done

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exauce

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defiant_will

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bruh. Why nerf Sanji to one arc? Especially against KCM Naruto

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exauce

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#32  Edited By exauce

Sanji Vinksmoke ~ Black Leg Sanji

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101

Black Leg Sanji, born as Vinsmoke Sanji, is the cook of the Straw Hat Pirates, as well as the former sous chef of the Baratie. He is also the third son and fourth child of the Vinsmoke Family, He is officially the fifth member of the crew and the fourth to join, doing so at the end of the Baratie Arc. Since he was born in North Blue, he is the first Straw Hat not to originate from East Blue.

He is one of the top four fighters in the crew alongside Luffy, Zoro, and Jinbe. His dream is to find the rumored chef's paradise, All Blue, which is where East Blue, West Blue, North Blue, and South Blue meet, along with their wildlife.

Black Leg Style

The Black Leg Style was created by Sanji based on Zeff's unique fighting style with a complete emphasis on kicks, repurposing the use of hands into acrobatics such as handstands to augment the force and range of kicks and to prevent the hands from being damaged during a battle, something that is disastrous to a chef like Sanji.

Thus, it boasts a wide and impressive array of kicking techniques coupled with superior acrobatic skills, making it an extremely versatile martial art, able to effectively weave continuous and powerful attacks upon adversaries and overpowered numerous enemies at once with incredible efficiency.

Well in this section I will be going over all the relevant technique in battle

Anti-matter course kick

So As u may not already know this one of Sanji's strongest technique that he only used 3 times so far in series

the first time was in Alabasta when he one-shot and lvl up a huge crocodile

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The second time was when he one-shot and falling half-giant and made him go in a half-standing half-falling state

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The third and last time so far was when he trips/flip over Oz during their battle

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Hell memories

This technique used during the Fishman Island arc from Sanji to one-shot Wadatsumi

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And as u may not know Wadatsumi is a big man, I mean really big that he was stated to be the size of a mountain

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And here how he looks compared to 50 meters ships

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And lastly, he could take a Jet-pistol punch from Luffy with Almost no damage

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I showed why it impressive down below

Fritte Assortie

Sanji used this technique only once so far to counter a full-blown bazooka from Oz/Oars and create a pretty huge shockwave that dwarfed a castle in the process

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Diable Jambe

Well I'm only mentioning this cuz Sanji's Diable Jambe kicks are hot enough to even burn someone who is harder than steel to the bones with a casual kick

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Just normal kicks

One-shot/breaks a Pacifista neck with a normal Diable Jambe kick

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And you have to note that Pacifista material/metal are durable enough to tanking stuff like this

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Just with a normal kick is also capable of kicking a falling Wadatsumi back up

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Durability

Well Let start with Early Sanji back in Skypiea when A weaken him took a full God's Judgment from Enel and Still kept on a conversation before finally going down

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And As u may not know here what a God's Judgment from Enel can do

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And Two arc Later he tanked an Ursus shock from Kuma

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Well here the only time he actually got hurt in the Fishman Island, when he took both a Gear 2 punch and a serious punch from Jinbei

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And as u may not know A Gear 2 punch from Luffy can Also one-shot a Pacifista and Punch from Jinbei can level up Wadatsumi in the air

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Speed

Well since u started with a Lightning scaling I'm also going to do cuz why not? Lol, Also I won't be using LS scaling cuz it pretty boring.

So here when Sanji face off against Kalifa and manages to go FTE to her while holding back

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And as u may not know Kalifa has easily reacted to lightning inches from her face

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And Later on when Sanji faced against Jabura (number 3) who scales massively over Kalifa (number 7) here (own Manga scaling)

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And Sanji was still going FTE to him

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And more again here

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And In Fishman Island arc as u already saw Sanji was able to move fast enough before Post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy and Jinbei hit each other

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Alright some more scaling

Alright Rob Lucci when facing Pre-timeskip Base Luffy he was easily shown to be much faster and even blitzing

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Note that Luffy at this point already reacted and kick lightning

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But when Luffy went Gear 2 he easily blitzes him back

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And Post-timeskip Base Luffy can easily dodge explosion that is literally on him

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Plus him getting even faster during the 2 year time skip

So in Summary Fishman Island Sanji in speed >> Gear 2 post-time skip Luffy who>> Base Luffy who >> Gear 2 pre-time skip Luffy who >> Base Lucci who >>>>>>> Kalifa (who dodge lightning at point-blank)

Abilities

in section I will be showing some ability Sanji has shown up to Fishman Island

Skywalk

Well he can walk in air making him basically fly

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Diable Jambe

Well due to his diable Jambe getting stronger over the year, he also has developed the ability to light himself of fire

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That all I can think of on top of my head Lol

Conclusion

Well here I will be listing the advantages I see Sanji has in this battle

  • Speed
  • Strength
  • Durability
  • Flight
  • Diable Jambe

I think that about it

So I will be waiting for my next post to counter some stuff that I disagree so I'll end my post here

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exauce

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@eazy2002 said:

Let's give exauce a chance to prove himself

Taep

Lol

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ThousandSteps

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#35  Edited By ThousandSteps

@exauce: alright I'll get something up pretty soon.

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Edgelord91

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@exauce: BLAZE UP BOYHOOD DREAM- I think that was sanji in film Z

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exauce

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#37  Edited By exauce

@edgelord91: Yep that Sanji but in was Heart of gold, not Z

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Naruto Uzumaki, The Number 1 Most Unpredictable Ninja

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Counters I

Anti-matter course kick

So As u may not already know this one of Sanji's strongest technique that he only used 3 times so far in series

the first time was in Alabasta when he one-shot and lvl up a huge crocodile

The second time was when he one-shot and falling half-giant and made him go in a half-standing half-falling state

The third and last time so far was when he trips/flip over Oz during their battle

While these are all good lifting feats, you didn't provide any durability for these characters, so this proves nothing more than Sanji being able to kick Naruto high up in the air (not that I ever doubted that) but the damage it will deal remains questionable, that is if he can even get close to him like that.

Hell memories

This technique used during the Fishman Island arc from Sanji to one-shot Wadatsumi

And as u may not know Wadatsumi is a big man, I mean really big that he was stated to be the size of a mountain

And here how he looks compared to 50 meters ships

And lastly, he could take a Jet-pistol punch from Luffy with Almost no damage

Fritte Assortie

Sanji used this technique only once so far to counter a full-blown bazooka from Oz/Oars and create a pretty huge shockwave that dwarfed a castle in the process

There's not alot for me to work with here, but creating a large building sized shockwave is pretty fodder to someone that can tank a small mountain level explosion to the face with almost no damage in a weaker form.

Diable Jambe

Well I'm only mentioning this cuz Sanji's Diable Jambe kicks are hot enough to even burn someone who is harder than steel to the bones with a casual kick

Now this attack may hurt Naruto quite a bit, especially if he takes a direct hit. But I doubt it is a one shot, considering a Tailed Beast-augmented Lava technique only irritated Naruto, in fact, he chose to take the attack head on just to launch his own counter strike:

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Just normal kicks

One-shot/breaks a Pacifista neck with a normal Diable Jambe kick

And you have to note that Pacifista material/metal are durable enough to tanking stuff like this

Just with a normal kick is also capable of kicking a falling Wadatsumi back up

Again, this is impressive. But you have to remember that an attack of the caliber (if not higher) that Pacifistas can tank dealt close to 0 damage to a weaker form of Naruto. So this may hurt him, but it can't one shot.

Durability

Well Let start with Early Sanji back in Skypiea when A weaken him took a full God's Judgment from Enel and Still kept on a conversation before finally going down

And As u may not know here what a God's Judgment from Enel can do

That attack looks to be multi building level, safe to say not very relevant here.

And Two arc Later he tanked an Ursus shock from Kuma

Looks to be about city level, so below the level we are arguing at. Also, he did tank it, but it dealt quite a bit of damage and doesn't look like he can tank many of them.

Well here the only time he actually got hurt in the Fishman Island, when he took both a Gear 2 punch and a serious punch from Jinbei

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

And as u may not know A Gear 2 punch from Luffy can Also one-shot a Pacifista and Punch from Jinbei can level up Wadatsumi in the air

But will these durability feats allow him to tank attacks that debilitate more than severing limbs and destroying body parts?

Speed

Well since u started with a Lightning scaling I'm also going to do cuz why not? Lol, Also I won't be using LS scaling cuz it pretty boring.

So here when Sanji face off against Kalifa and manages to go FTE to her while holding back

And as u may not know Kalifa has easily reacted to lightning inches from her face

And Later on when Sanji faced against Jabura (number 3) who scales massively over Kalifa (number 7) here (own Manga scaling)

And Sanji was still going FTE to him

So going FTE to lightning+ characters. Decent, but not enough to contend to someone blitzing quad mach characters.

And In Fishman Island arc as u already saw Sanji was able to move fast enough before Post-timeskip Gear 2 Luffy and Jinbei hit each other

Uhhh, tbh based on the facial expressions, this scene looks like a gag scene to me which makes this feat questionable. If you can give me context for this scene it would be cool. Regardless though, this at most puts Sanji on par with Naruto.

Alright some more scaling

Alright Rob Lucci when facing Pre-timeskip Base Luffy he was easily shown to be much faster and even blitzing

Note that Luffy at this point already reacted and kick lightning

But when Luffy went Gear 2 he easily blitzes him back

And Post-timeskip Base Luffy can easily dodge explosion that is literally on him

Unless those explosions go faster than grenades, that's at most a high hypersonic feat, which isn't enough here.

Plus him getting even faster during the 2 year time skip

So in Summary Fishman Island Sanji in speed >> Gear 2 post-time skip Luffy who>> Base Luffy who >> Gear 2 pre-time skip Luffy who >> Base Lucci who >>>>>>> Kalifa (who dodge lightning at point-blank)

This scaling looks fine for the most part (except for the Sanji "blitzing" Gear 2 Luffy + Jinbei), although the amount of ">>>"s seems exaggerated though.

Skywalk

Well he can walk in air making him basically fly

Interesting, but if Sanji's attacks are CQC based (kicks), then it is a rather useless ability as he needs to get close to Naruto regardless. Plus, Naruto also has a form of aerial ability which I will show below.

Diable Jambe

Well due to his diable Jambe getting stronger over the year, he also has developed the ability to light himself of fire

Yeah this ability is pretty dangerous, but there's not enough evidence to suggest it one shots Naruto.

Offensive Capabilities and Defensive Measures combined

In this section I wanna go over two things that will further cement Naruto's victory, his Chakra arm manifestation and further application of his Shadow Clones.

Chakra arm manifestation

The main reason I chose to CaV this specific form of Naruto.

After entering KCM, Naruto gained the ability to manifest extra chakra arms:

No Caption Provided

Now if your reaction is: "that's a neat ability", then you're in for a wild ride.

What seems like a simple ability soon shaped up to be Naruto's main fighting style while in this state, which sadly we longer see after he unlocks BM.

Regardless, let's look at how he uses these extra limbs and how they stack with his Rasengan.

As seen below, these Chakra arms:

  • can be used even while his main body is pinned
  • can be manifested omni-directionally
  • can all use Rasengans
  • doesn't require any sort of prep and can be used instantaneously
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Already, this makes Naruto a dangerous opponent at close quarters as he can easily catch Sanji unaware with an extra chakra arm and smack him with a Rasengan. However, this is just the beginning.

These chakra arms can also be used as a way to increase his already very high mobility to crazy levels, where he can pull to or push himself away from enemies like so:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The location for this fight is NYC, a city with plenty of skyscrapers. This is perfect, as Naruto can use the countless buildings around him to his advantage by using these push and pull techniques. He can literally replicate Spider man in a sense. As such, as long as Sanji remains within the height of buildings, his flying advantage is rendered null, as he can easily close the gap, aswell as dodges attacks.

Now let's look at how Naruto incorporates these techniques in an actual fight.

In the scan below, he is fighting Mu, the second Tsuchikage. This man can fly, and is using Jinton, a jutsu style that can dissassemble atoms. How does Naruto combat this? By using his surroundings (Gaara's sand in this case but this fight is happening in NYC so he can use literally anything), he propels himself high up in the air with his chakra arm, and then outspeeds Mu's Jinton (who would've otherwise nailed him) by extending his chakra arm with a Rasengan (Planetary Rasengan) on it, decimating Mu.

No Caption Provided

To conclude this part, these chakra arms grant Naruto crazy aerial mobility (for someone that can't fly that is), aswell as countless different angles from he can strike his opponents. Basically, Naruto can control the flow of this fight in close to mid range combat.

Miscellaneous abilities II

Finally, I wanted to dive in further into two things and how he uses them in combat: hiding among clones and transforming himself.

Here, he takes advantage of Kakuzu's experience to literally fool him with something so simple that nobody actually expects. He hides himself among his clones and has his clone take the Rasenshuriken. This leads Kakuzu to believe the original is holding the jutsu, which allows the real Naruto to strike a distracted Kakuzu that was busy dealing with a clone:

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

This is one basic example, he even pulled this off on Kaguya of all people, by giving his clone the TSBs:

No Caption Provided

And then there's his ability to transform into stuff, which he also used since Zabuza:

No Caption Provided

To wrap up this part, Sanji will be dealing with someone that routinely hides himself among his clones, aswell transform himself to otherwise everyday objects and launch surprise attacks.

Conclusion I

  • Sanji is at best a peer to Naruto in speed
  • Outside of his Diable Jambe, he lacks the means to hurt Naruto, and Diable Jambe isn't a one shot
  • Sanji lacks the durability to tank more than one Planetary Rasengans, which are spammable attacks
  • Sanji's flight advantage is rendered null by the fact that he needs to get close to Naruto to hurt him
  • Adding to the above, Naruto's fighting style and the location being NYC allows him to have a crazy mobility advantage over Sanji
  • Between his chakra arm manifestation, his clones and his transformations, Sanji will have trouble even tagging the real Naruto, while he can tag Sanji from many surprise opportunities and countless different angles, overall giving him the edge (if not total control) in mid to close range combat.

Now that I have a taste of what Sanji can do, I can confidently say KCM Naruto beats this version of Sanji.

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Nice

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#43  Edited By WhatIsWritten

No, This is not nice. Like my dude excause what are you doing? counter his points. It’s a debate, not a speech.

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@whatiswritten: That was my opener boi, I can't counter any point in my opener, I'm presenting my character not counter his points, wait for this post where i will be counter his point Lol

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Vinsmoke Sanji: 2nd Cour

No Caption Provided

Maintaining Advantages

I'll be using this section to correct and counter some of the things that my opponent said in his opening post, so I'll try my best to be as concise and to-the-point as possible during this part of the post.

This part of my post will be the cornerstone of my arguments. The way I will be scaling KCM Naruto will all be justified here, so I urge the readers and my opponent to pay attention here.

Cool

Let's take it from the top. A Jinchuriki is a shinobi host to a Tailed Beast. Naruto is host to the Kurama, the Nine-Tails, therefore he is a jinchuriki. Jinchurikis have historically been used by villages to increase their military might, and they themselves have a varying degree of control over their beasts.

This is relevant, because we learn that a Tailed Beast that's rampaging by itself cannot be as strong as a Jinchuriki that can control their Tailed Beast. We see Deidara easily defeating a Tailed Beast by itself, while Kisame had alot of trouble with Roshi, the host of another Tailed Beast, despite the fact that Kisame is the single best hunter of the Akatsuki:

This is further reaffirmed when Obito managed to become the Jinchuriki of the Ten Tails, Hachibi himself directly explaining this to us:

Basically, a Jinchuriki that can control their beasts power >> a Tailed Beast rampaging by itself.

Cool

With this said, now let's see what KCM Naruto is.

By his own words, KCM is the state where he controls his Tailed Beast:

Any argument against Naruto not controlling/partially controlling Kurama is blatantly wrong, this is reaffirmed many times:

Not really since he needed to shake his to get the full power if know what I mean. and the reason I don't really take this statement it because he needed to that to get the full power of the beast u know.

In other words, KCM Naruto >= a rampaging 50% Kurama at 9 tails >> a rampaging 50% Kurama at 8 and less tails

I will doubt do him needed to that to get the full I don't know maybe it just me

One distinction needs to be made however. Naruto lacks Kurama's cooperation and as such is not a perfect Jinchuriki. He has 3 negative attributes that perfect Jinchurikis don't:

Exactly meaning he isn't necessarily stronger than those previous form since he is not full power yet u know.

  • KCM Naruto does not have the genjutsu immunity
  • He is in a constant power struggle with Kurama
  • He lacks the Tailed Beast Bomb (TBB)

This proving my point even more

Thankfully, he can rely on his own abilites while augmented by KCM state. One last thing before I end this section, KCM Naruto is blatantly said to be much stronger than when he was fighting Pain, and that's referring to Sage Mode/Kyuubi rampaging.

Doubt that could may just refer to himself being stronger than he was since he clearly is

I'll reiterate it: KCM Naruto >= a rampaging 50% Kurama at 9 tails >> a rampaging 50% Kurama at 8 and less tails based on the explanations given to us.

Doubt as explain above

Now let's actually move on to his offensive and defensive prowess.

Alright

Offensive Capabilities

Commanding Kyuubi's powers, you know he is bound to be a threat. His casual roars in a weaker form were able to form a hill sized crater:

Cool but unless u think Naruto roars can do that, I don't see why it relevant

As far as some of his strength feat goes, in much weaker states he was able to launch a giant rhino (that probably weights at least ten tons) up into the sky with almost zero difficulty, as well as create massive shockwaves from just the wave of his hand :

So Basically Sanji deflecting a gum gum bazooka from Oz but less impressive

Now while Naruto doesn't rely alot on his strength in KCM state, the above shows that if Sanji (which I presume is around average human weight) ever loses his brace on ground, he is going to get ragdolled.

True don't think it doing any damage to him

What Naruto will be using as his main attacks will be the Rasengan. This attack potency based jutsu is best explained below:

This damages the opponent on the inside out, as seen on the water tank below:

This cool but Sanji who scales massively over Enias Lobby Luffy durability shouldn't have much problems since Luffy took Rokuogan multiple times which is just that

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

here again

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

Now I'm not gonna waste anyone's time and skip straight into one of the Rasengan's strongest application in KCM, the Planetary Rasengan:

Nice

A very strong attack where the victim gets struck by 4 Rasengans (3 of which is orbiting the bigger one) that can launch the victims through solid rock pillars:

Doubt is even getting launch away but the Rasen he didn't get launch away from a gear 2 punch from Luffy while his Base can easily do that to his victims even making them blow huge cliff

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

And Even if he did due to his Durability he ain't getting any significant damage if he is going to get damaged at all

But the real kicker is the fact that this attack is so strong, it can delay Edo Tensei regeneration:

Cool but how does that mean anything? how do u Quantify that what makes it stronger than a normal Ransegan?

For reference, Edo Tenseis are reincarnated shinobis (basically zombies) that posses some strong healing factor, as they regenerate from pretty much anything (with some limited exceptions):

Yea

So considering severed limbs, destroyed body parts and even atomic disassembly can't delay edo tensei regeneration but this can, you should get a good idea of how powerful the Planetary Rasengan is.

I can't Quantify that still

For now, this should suffice as an opener for showcasing Naruto's offensive pressure.

Cool but u need more than that to hurt Sanji

Defensive Measures

Naruto, like most shinobis from his verse, will try avoiding attacks to the best of their abilities. That's how shinobis fight, relying on stealth and deception to trick their opponents and go for the kill shot. So ideally, Naruto will be avoiding direct hits. This does not mean however, that Naruto is incapable of tanking hits. On the contrary, he has decent feats that allows him to take a few hits:

Alright, cool

In a weaker form, he is able to face tank his own TBB with basically 0 damage, creating a large hill/small mountain explosion of concussion force:

Not really close to mountain or large hill at all if u look at the scan of the explosion and take a look there is Gamabunta there looking and comparing his Size to the explosion which is 17 meters or around 55 feet, it clearly showing the explosion is nowhere near large hill or small mountain, just hill at best

And Sanji easily one-shot Pacista who are capable of taking blast that dwarfs mountains as shown in opener so even if he need he probably still get one-shot with a kick

Now since I don't know what I'm going up against, I'll leave it at that.

Cool but u need more than that to not get one-shot man

Speed

Unlike the last two sections, I will be going all out on this section. I'm going to comfortably argue KCM Naruto at mid mhs+ speeds (mid quad digit mach) for the sole fact that he was able to completely speed blitz past the Fourth Raikage going at his absolute max:

Alright let see

To understand the depth of this feat, we need to do some scaling.

Cool I did to

Let's start with the infamous Kirin feat Itachi performed. Kirin is an attack that moves at mach 500 region. I'm not making this up, this is simply basic calculation of speed with the timeframe and distance. And we get the canonical values for both:

I don't know if u missed it or not but in the exact same scan in the same paragraph after he finish talking about 1/1000 second stuff and he says it 100 times faster than sound which only Mach 100, not 500

so here instead of 500 blah blah it should be

TLDR: mach 100 processing speed Itachi << a healthy MS Sasuke << 4th Raikage << KCM Naruto

Miscellaneous Abilities

The main thing I will be talking about here is the Shadow Clones:

Nice

These clones make a perfect copy of the user (stat wise) and are completely real and tangible. The only difference is they get dispersed if hit with an attack strong enough to knock them out.

Cool. Yea basically any kick from Sanji

These clones will be mainly used for distraction and information gathering. The first part is obvious, but the latter part refers to the fact that any clone dispersed transfers the info it gained to the original:

Yea

The kicker for this? Naruto can make very large quantities of clones:

Nice and Sanji has experience fight army of enemies such as in the Fishman Island when they fought 10 against 100,000 (can't find a relevant scan it chapter 634 tho, it letterly the title of the chapter)

Wrapping up

Considering I don't know anything about Sanji yet, I will refrain from making any bold claims.

No problem man

However, what I can tell is Sanji will be dealing with an guy that can dish out extreme damage from the inside out, is easily mhs+ in speed and can overwhelm him with clones, while gaining additional info about his opponent every second.

Yea I think he got this cover

Alright now it

Maintaining Advantages II

And again I'll be using this section to correct and counter some of the things that my opponent said in his opening post, so I'll try my best to be as concise and to-the-point as possible during this part of the post.

While these are all good lifting feats, you didn't provide any durability for these characters, so this proves nothing more than Sanji being able to kick Naruto high up in the air (not that I ever doubted that) but the damage it will deal remains questionable, that is if he can even get close to him like that.

Yea the point of this was to show off Sanji strength not striking

There's not alot for me to work with here, but creating a large building sized shockwave is pretty fodder to someone that can tank a small mountain level explosion to the face with almost no damage in a weaker form.

I don't like what trying to say here but it mostly irrelevant to my argument so I won't bother

Now this attack may hurt Naruto quite a bit, especially if he takes a direct hit. But I doubt it is a one shot, considering a Tailed Beast-augmented Lava technique only irritated Naruto, in fact, he chose to take the attack head on just to launch his own counter strike:

True. I mean I doubt the flames alone would be it but from what u showed me the kick itself will be a one-shot material for him, that cool but how does it keep it from burning him tho? plus Sanji flames are hot enough to steel be potent even 10,000 meters underwater

No Caption Provided

Again, this is impressive. But you have to remember that an attack of the caliber (if not higher) that Pacifistas can tank dealt close to 0 damage to a weaker form of Naruto. So this may hurt him, but it can't one shot.

True. No even close the attack the Pacifista can take is far bigger and large than attack that it literally dwarfed the mountains around it, while for naruto comparing Gamabuna to the blast it at best just ur average hill so not even close, plus Sanji one-shoted the pacifista with a kick so yeah

Durability

That attack looks to be multi building level, safe to say not very relevant here.

So an attack that busted and dwarfed a town is multi-building lvl to u, then what should I call u showed me? Lol

Looks to be about city level, so below the level we are arguing at. Also, he did tank it, but it dealt quite a bit of damage and doesn't look like he can tank many of them.

Yea I put at about city myself, not really unless u think hill lvl is better than city lvl. Yes, he did, like what u mean here i don't get it

But will these durability feats allow him to tank attacks that debilitate more than severing limbs and destroying body parts?

I think he could yea

Speed

So going FTE to lightning+ characters. Decent, but not enough to contend to someone blitzing quad mach characters.

A little lower than quad Mach but Yea it not but scaling isn't done bruh

Uhhh, tbh based on the facial expressions, this scene looks like a gag scene to me which makes this feat questionable.

And how that? I even showed u the entire scene in my opener to it a serious scene regardless of the facial expression and u didn't call it gag in durability section but now it gag in speed?

plus Sanji always makes that expression when he sees a girl/woman such as here are u also going to call this a gag scene?

No Caption Provided

If you can give me context for this scene it would be cool. Regardless though, this at most puts Sanji on par with Naruto.

The scan speaks for itself he goes faster than Luffy and Jinbei and basically statue them. Nah I think that makes him much faster

Unless those explosions go faster than grenades, that's at most a high hypersonic feat, which isn't enough here.

Uh, what? dodging an explosion while being at the center of it when it explodes and not even get any scratch on you or close is high hypersonic? what?

This scaling looks fine for the most part (except for the Sanji "blitzing" Gear 2 Luffy + Jinbei), although the amount of ">>>"s seems exaggerated though.

Explain above, the amount of >>> is irrelevant if get the point

Interesting, but if Sanji's attacks are CQC based (kicks), then it is a rather useless ability as he needs to get close to Naruto regardless. Plus, Naruto also has a form of aerial ability which I will show below.

CQC? I don't get that, Yes he needs to get close that how he fights that why he uses a lot of speed. Alright

Yeah this ability is pretty dangerous, but there's not enough evidence to suggest it one shots Naruto.

A kick alone is doing and naruto getting his entire body fried inside and out will one-shot him

Offensive Capabilities and Defensive Measures combined

In this section I wanna go over two things that will further cement Naruto's victory, his Chakra arm manifestation and further application of his Shadow Clones.

Cool

Chakra arm manifestation

The main reason I chose to CaV this specific form of Naruto.

After entering KCM, Naruto gained the ability to manifest extra chakra arms:

Nice

Now if your reaction is: "that's a neat ability", then you're in for a wild ride.

Alright let see

What seems like a simple ability soon shaped up to be Naruto's main fighting style while in this state, which sadly we longer see after he unlocks BM.

Regardless, let's look at how he uses these extra limbs and how they stack with his Rasengan.

Yea

As seen below, these Chakra arms:

  • can be used even while his main body is pinned
  • can be manifested omni-directionally
  • can all use Rasengans
  • doesn't require any sort of prep and can be used instantaneously

Yes that cool

Already, this makes Naruto a dangerous opponent at close quarters as he can easily catch Sanji unaware with an extra chakra arm and smack him with a Rasengan. However, this is just the beginning.

Not that it doing a lot of damage and Sanji dodge it u know. cool.

These chakra arms can also be used as a way to increase his already very high mobility to crazy levels, where he can pull to or push himself away from enemies like so:

The location for this fight is NYC, a city with plenty of skyscrapers. This is perfect, as Naruto can use the countless buildings around him to his advantage by using these push and pull techniques. He can literally replicate Spider man in a sense. As such, as long as Sanji remains within the height of buildings, his flying advantage is rendered null, as he can easily close the gap, aswell as dodges attacks.

Nice love it, but as should already know Sanji skywalk it just that but he doesn't need arms to do so, and Sanji can easily follow him as he leaping around he has the speed he has the ability, so I don't get why he catches up to him and hell memories him or something

Now let's look at how Naruto incorporates these techniques in an actual fight.

Cool

In the scan below, he is fighting Mu, the second Tsuchikage. This man can fly, and is using Jinton, a jutsu style that can disassemble atoms. How does Naruto combat this? By using his surroundings (Gaara's sand in this case but this fight is happening in NYC so he can use literally anything), he propels himself high up in the air with his chakra arm, and then outspeeds Mu's Jinton (who would've otherwise nailed him) by extending his chakra arm with a Rasengan (Planetary Rasengan) on it, decimating Mu.

Nice but as explained above, it not really a problem since Sanji is pretty mobile in the air and he doesn't just stand in the exact same spot when he is fighting

To conclude this part, these chakra arms grant Naruto crazy aerial mobility (for someone that can't fly that is), aswell as countless different angles from he can strike his opponents. Basically, Naruto can control the flow of this fight in close to mid range combat.

True, True, Doubt due to Sanji speed, his own mobility, plus Haki (explain below)

Miscellaneous abilities II

Finally, I wanted to dive in further into two things and how he uses them in combat: hiding among clones and transforming himself.

Here, he takes advantage of Kakuzu's experience to literally fool him with something so simple that nobody actually expects. He hides himself among his clones and has his clone take the Rasenshuriken. This leads Kakuzu to believe the original is holding the jutsu, which allows the real Naruto to strike a distracted Kakuzu that was busy dealing with a clone:

That would have been great if Sanji didn't have Observation Haki (forgot to mention in ability section) if don't know what haki is here an oversimplification of it

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

at this point he hasn't shown a lot of it but it stated that he had it

No Caption Provided

And Complain about not being able to use Haki well inside Nami's body

No Caption Provided

This is one basic example, he even pulled this off on Kaguya of all people, by giving his clone the TSBs:

And then there's his ability to transform into stuff, which he also used since Zabuza:

Cool but Sanji will know exactly where is due Haki

To wrap up this part, Sanji will be dealing with someone that routinely hides himself among his clones, aswell transform himself to otherwise everyday objects and launch surprise attacks.

Cool but Haki counters that

Conclusion I

  • Sanji is at best a peer to Naruto in speed

I say is faster

  • Outside of his Diable Jambe, he lacks the means to hurt Naruto, and Diable Jambe isn't a one shot

What u mean by that? A casual kick from him is leveling up Wadatsumi in the air and his striking his one-shot Pacifista

  • Sanji lacks the durability to tank more than one Planetary Rasengans, which are spammable attacks

Huh what? He took almost no damage from a punch from Gear 2 and Jinbei they aren't doing anything to him

  • Sanji's flight advantage is rendered null by the fact that he needs to get close to Naruto to hurt him

He will just stay in the air a spam specter

No Caption Provided
  • Adding to the above, Naruto's fighting style and the location being NYC allows him to have a crazy mobility advantage over Sanji

Sanji while Flying is also mobile and faster much faster

  • Between his chakra arm manifestation, his clones and his transformations, Sanji will have trouble even tagging the real Naruto, while he can tag Sanji from many surprise opportunities and countless different angles, overall giving him the edge (if not total control) in mid to close range combat.

Haki conters that

Now that I have a taste of what Sanji can do, I can confidently say KCM Naruto beats this version of Sanji.

Then I think a taste isn't enough for u

Conclusion

Well I'll end the same way he did, by restating my advantages:

  • Speed
  • Strength
  • Durability
  • Flight
  • Diable Jambe
  • I'll add Haki

I'm done now. Best of luck on your counterpost!

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@exauce: Nice post, I'll get my final post ASAP (probably tomorow or the day after)

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#50  Edited By exauce